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We are a nation in deep trouble.

Posted on 02/07/2002 4:25:05 PM PST by Private Pyle

When the attorney general of the United States purports to make laws instead of enforcing them, we are indeed in very deep trouble. Such is the case with the so called Anti-Terrorism Act which Attorney General Ashcroft presented to the legislature for rubber stamping. What is the difference between what is happening with our constitutional system and what Lenin and Stalin did in the darkest days of Bolshevik rule? Is not the Congress merely a rubber stamp for what the executive and its officers want done? If there is a difference between the former USSR, and the U.S. today, I would like to have it pointed out.

Every member of the legislature should be obliged to read and study Washington's Farewell Address which ought to have been made a part of the Constitution, and then be obliged to take a test on what they have absorbed, before being allowed to continue in their posts. Particulary, we would invite President Bush, and Attorney General Ashcroft, to observe the following extract from Washington's memorable speech:

"It is important likewise, that the habits of thinking in a free country should inspire caution in those intrusted with its administration, to confine themselves within their respective constitutional spheres, avoiding in the exercise of the powers of one department, to encroach upon another. The spirit of encroachment tends to consolidate the powers of all departments in one, and thus to create, whatever the form of government, a real despotism. A just estimate of that love of power and proneness to abuse it which predominate in the human heart, is sufficient to satisfy us of the truth of this position.

Most ominous is the deathly silence of the Republican Party. The Republican Party may be written off as an enemy of the Constitution. Let us put an end to the charade, and call a spade a spade. I warn the American people that under the excuse of tragedy of September 11th, our rights and our liberties are all but obliterated. The New World Order is at hand. Orwell's 1984 is a living reality in Washington D.C, while the so called Republican Party busies itself with legislation of little importance and allows the Constitution to be bludgeoned to death. There is not even any pretence anymore.


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1 posted on 02/07/2002 4:25:05 PM PST by Private Pyle
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To: Private Pyle

Pyle, you knucklehead!


2 posted on 02/07/2002 4:30:16 PM PST by hole_n_one
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To: Private Pyle
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz wha.. Did you say something???? Oh.. Just more of that liberal/libertarian propaganda designed to destroy the morale of the american people.. Let me know when you have something of substance to post ya friggin black helicopter loony. :^'
3 posted on 02/07/2002 4:30:20 PM PST by Captal de Buch
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To: Private Pyle
Get a grip man. The good guys are in charge now. I know what you are going to say. What about later on when another Clinton is in office. Well we can't sacrifice doing what is right now for worrying about future things we have no control over. The administration is doing an excellent job. But some people just have to have something to gripe about don't they.
4 posted on 02/07/2002 4:30:55 PM PST by mrfixit514
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To: Private Pyle
Handwringer!
5 posted on 02/07/2002 4:32:13 PM PST by Godfollow
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To: Private Pyle
our liberties are all but obliterated

I would refute you, but I'm just too busy fighting off the secret police at the moment, trying to recover my private property that has been confiscated, trying to recover my voting rights that have been obliterated, trying to get permission to drive my car to the grocery store, trying to get the goods I need on the black market...

6 posted on 02/07/2002 4:33:01 PM PST by E=MC<sup>2</sup>
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To: mrfixit514
Actually, we do have control over the future: don't pass laws which can be misused later.

Bush is in the White House by the slimmest of slim margins. Ample reason not to explode the powers of government during his term. The War on Terrorism could be easily won by enforcing the will of the citizenry and guarding our borders and allowing the unrestricted right to keep and bear arms.

7 posted on 02/07/2002 4:35:52 PM PST by SteamshipTime
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To: Private Pyle
Are you expecting a pogrom? If so let us all know when ther US Government is going to kill all the opposition so that we can make sure that we are registered Republicans.
8 posted on 02/07/2002 4:36:08 PM PST by WayneH
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To: Private Pyle
If there is a difference between the former USSR, and the U.S. today, I would like to have it pointed out.

For starters, in the old USSR this thread wouldn't last a minute. Of course it might not last two minutes on FR.

9 posted on 02/07/2002 4:45:46 PM PST by RightWhale
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To: Private Pyle
Let us put an end to the charade, and call a spade a spade.

Too many people are using the spades to dig us a deep deep hole. The rest apparently don't know what a spade really is: a bloody shovel.

10 posted on 02/07/2002 4:47:07 PM PST by Ridin' Shotgun
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To: Private Pyle
For starters we have to go back nine years...
11 posted on 02/07/2002 4:49:45 PM PST by chainsaw
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To: RightWhale
Try the Pravda Forum for a real eye opener.
12 posted on 02/07/2002 4:50:33 PM PST by Ridin' Shotgun
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To: Private Pyle
Though I agree with George Washington, how his warning apply in this case? I believe the Patriot Act was voted upon in the House and Senate and signed into law by the President.

I agree with the sentiment of your post. I like the quote. It's helpful to review our wise Founding Father's words of caution.

13 posted on 02/07/2002 4:54:45 PM PST by The Westerner
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To: SteamshipTime
Exactly. That's why almost all laws should have sunset provisions. Not only would bad laws lapse, but a lot of congress's time would be taken up renewing existing laws; thereby reducing the time they can spend dreaming up new laws with which to help us.

FReegards

14 posted on 02/07/2002 4:56:09 PM PST by VMI70
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To: Ridin' Shotgun
I might spend a little time looking over that one this evening. Looks interesting.
15 posted on 02/07/2002 4:56:30 PM PST by RightWhale
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Comment #16 Removed by Moderator

To: Private Pyle
C'mon Pyle, get with the program! Wassa matter with you anyhow!? Don't you know that you can't express concern over the deplorable lack of respect for the Constitution by our government? Hell, them's the old days son! A new day has dawned! It's war, man! Good Lord, don'tcha have a brain in that noggin 'o yours?! Hmmm?! C'mon and fly with the flock son, run with the pack! Don't worry 'bout any 'o them 'ol fashioned ideas! Constitution schmonstitution! That things just a piece o' paper, and an old yellered one at that. TERRORISM!! That's the name 'o the game now boy, you wanna die?! Hmmm?!

What's that you say? Someday the wars gonna be over? Someday there won't be a threat from terrorism anymore? Well, big fr!&&#n deal! We're all gonna die right now if we don't let them boys in Warshington do what rightly needs ta be done, and done NOW!

Hell, we'll worry about what kinda laws they've passed when the smoke clears. Hell, you think their out to get us or somethin'? Them's our boys up there, or have you fergot that? Right now, don't you question a dern thing their doin' son!!

You wanna be free, or you wanna be safe son?

17 posted on 02/07/2002 5:10:02 PM PST by Hoosier Patriot
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Comment #18 Removed by Moderator

To: Hoosier Patriot
Very clever.Now,what would you have done?
19 posted on 02/07/2002 5:20:37 PM PST by John W
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To: Private Pyle
Private Pyle saying GOLLLL-EEEE since January 19th, 2002

20 posted on 02/07/2002 5:26:50 PM PST by denydenydeny
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To: Private Pyle
Don't you think you are overreacting just a tad! I seem to recall a short but vigorous debate over the anti-terrorism bill which resulted in not all that Ashcroft wanted PLUS a sunset clause.

"our liberties are all but obliterated"

Just a tad overreacting?

P.S. Can someone tell me how much a "tad" is?

21 posted on 02/07/2002 5:28:59 PM PST by fleur-de-lis
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To: Private Pyle
Relax Gomer.
22 posted on 02/07/2002 5:32:00 PM PST by b4its2late
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To: John W
Move as swiftly as practical to assess what needed to be done given the situation. Formulate appropriate remedies for all problems. Carry out the remedies.

Practically to the letter what has been done by the administration.

Where they and I differ is in doing these things within the context of what the Constitution allows. It is, after all, the supreme law of this land. That which is the basis for all other laws. For everyone, in time of war or peace!

The supreme law of this land. Think about that. Not "the supreme law of this land, except for....," or "the supreme law of this land, except when..."

That from which all other laws must arise. If not, then it is just an old yellowed piece of paper.

23 posted on 02/07/2002 5:49:48 PM PST by Hoosier Patriot
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To: Private Pyle
You need to buy some heavy duty weaponry. Try it, it'll make you feel better.
24 posted on 02/07/2002 6:26:51 PM PST by gore_sux
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To: Hoosier Patriot
"Move as swiftly as practical to assess what needed to be done given the situation. Formulate appropriate remedies for all problems. Carry out the remedies."

Do you provide charts with this such as another fellow who dealt in such generalties regarding serious problems did?

25 posted on 02/08/2002 1:34:58 PM PST by John W
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To: hole_n_one
Private Pile
26 posted on 02/08/2002 1:39:27 PM PST by DainBramage
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To: fleur-de-lis
P.S. Can someone tell me how much a "tad" is?

It's slightly more than a "touch", but less than a "bit"...

27 posted on 02/08/2002 1:40:44 PM PST by general_re
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To: hole_n_one
Cherry.
28 posted on 02/08/2002 1:42:41 PM PST by RetiredArmy
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To: hole_n_one
Funny how different minds work - this was what immediately sprang to mind for me:

"What is your major malfunction, Private Pyle?"

29 posted on 02/08/2002 1:46:46 PM PST by general_re
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Comment #30 Removed by Moderator

To: mrfixit514
Get a grip man. The good guys are in charge now.

The only time a government can impose complete tyranny is when they have the consent of the sheepel. Healthy skepticism acts as another form of checks and balances in a representative government and should be encouraged. The public will never be duped by exercising skepticism of government’s policies, only through blind trust can tyranny truly flourish.

31 posted on 02/08/2002 1:56:14 PM PST by TightSqueeze
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To: Private Pyle
If there is a difference between the former USSR, and the U.S. today, I would like to have it pointed out.

We gots waaaaaaay better toilet paper.

32 posted on 02/08/2002 2:02:31 PM PST by Cogadh na Sith
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To: John W
Sorry, no charts. Do you disagree that, without spelling out every single step of the process, this is what our current administration has done? For example:

1. The 9/11 attacks occur. It becomes known that there is a terroristic threat to this nation. This is the situation, or problem to which the assessment must be applied.

2. Once identified, formulate appropriate remedies for all problems, ie, come up with fixes for the problems.

3. Apply the fixes!

Still with me? Not convoluted enough for you? No matter the "situation" or "problem," are you telling me that this is not the path from first identification of problem, to eventual resolution of the problem?

My post dealt with the issue of the Constitution being eschewed in this process. What are your thoughts on that point?

33 posted on 02/08/2002 2:43:27 PM PST by Hoosier Patriot
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To: Hoosier Patriot
PING* Bump
34 posted on 02/10/2002 2:26:08 AM PST by Private Pyle
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To: John W
I'm still patiently waiting for your answers to #33. Almost, let's see.... two days now.
35 posted on 02/10/2002 8:40:06 AM PST by Hoosier Patriot
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To: Private Pyle
It's good to be wary of government, but things do get complicated sometimes. Please tell us how you would fight a war against terrorists.
36 posted on 02/10/2002 8:47:21 AM PST by powderhorn
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To: Private Pyle
You'd have gotten a better reaction if you'd posted tonights wrestling card.
37 posted on 02/10/2002 8:56:35 AM PST by babylonian
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To: fleur-de-lis
PLUS a sunset clause.

LOL! Just like bridge tolls and income taxes, the 'sunset' will somehow just never happen. In fact, in this case, that's easy to demonstrate. This bill is in reaction to an action (terrorism). An act, or the potential for that act (like murder, even in top-security prisons), can NEVER be eradicated, therefore the 'need' for this 'protection' will never disappear. Once we decide to stop squishing some Middle Eastern nations (plus the Phillipines?) that refuse to help us, then the terrorists will magically become domestic, rather than foreign. (I wish I could find that FBI pamphlet that specifically mentions those who quote Constitution as probable terrorists)

A shame, too. I like sunsets.

38 posted on 02/10/2002 9:34:22 AM PST by Teacher317
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To: The Westerner
I believe the Patriot Act was voted upon in the House and Senate and signed into law by the President.

That's true, but none of the members of the House or Senate were allowed to read the bill before signing it.

39 posted on 02/10/2002 9:40:18 AM PST by ActionNewsBill
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To: Private Pyle
Economic Terror by Ron Paul.
In the area of personal liberty, we face some real dangers. Throughout our history, starting with the Civil War, our liberties have been curtailed and the Constitution has been flaunted. Although our government continued to grow with each crisis, many of the liberties curtailed during wartime were restored. War was precise and declared, and when the war was over, there was a desire to return to normalcy. With the current war on terrorism, there is no end in sight and there is no precise enemy, and we've been forewarned that this fight will go on for a long time. This means that a return to normalcy after the sacrifices we are making with our freedoms is not likely. The implementation of a national ID card, pervasive surveillance, easy-to-get search warrants, and loss of financial and medical privacy will be permanent. If this trend continues, the Constitution will become a much weaker document.

40 posted on 02/10/2002 9:41:21 AM PST by snopercod
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To: Private Pyle
"Every member of the legislature should be obliged to read and study Washington's Farewell Address which ought to have been made a part of the Constitution, ..."

It drives me nuts when liberals use the Constitution to support an arguement...over the years they have redefined enough words that the Constitution no longer mean "provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare", but "provide for the general welfare, promote the common defense". And then the South goes and loses the war which effectively repealed the 10th Amendment...

41 posted on 02/10/2002 9:41:31 AM PST by gorush
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To: Private Pyle
The Republican Party may be written off as an enemy of the Constitution. Let us put an end to the charade, and call a spade a spade. I warn the American people that under the excuse of tragedy of September 11th, our rights and our liberties are all but obliterated.

It's amazing, isn't it...if this so-called "Patriot Act" was proposed by Democrats, and AG Reno, the Republicrats would be more discerning. But since it was enacted by a Republican administration, it gets a free pass. Go figure.

42 posted on 02/10/2002 9:43:45 AM PST by ActionNewsBill
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To: fleur-de-lis
"Can someone tell me how much a "tad" is?"

A bit more than a smidgen and within a hair of a mite.

Except when it's a toad.

43 posted on 02/10/2002 9:45:26 AM PST by decimon
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To: gorush
And then the South goes and loses the war which effectively repealed the 10th Amendment...

Well that and with the passage of the illegal 14th Amendment(and it is illegal in word and in the way it was passed) but we're all happier now right? Right?

Shop and spend, shop and spend, how the men who fought for the 13 states original independence would be so proud of what we've become < /sarcasm>

44 posted on 02/10/2002 9:55:53 AM PST by billbears
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To: Teacher317
(I wish I could find that FBI pamphlet that specifically mentions those who quote Constitution as probable terrorists)

Here you go!

45 posted on 02/10/2002 9:58:30 AM PST by .30Carbine
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To: Hoosier Patriot
I believe the current administration has done an excellent job in response to the terrorist attack of 9-11-01,and,while some of the Patriot Act items would concern me say if a Clinton was President and a Reno was AJ,under W I'm not concerned in the least.
46 posted on 02/10/2002 10:17:46 AM PST by John W
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To: Private Pyle
If you truly don't know the difference between the former USSR and the USA today, you need to: turn off the computer, go enroll in school, get a library card, find a seat, and educate yourself. Anyone who displays such profound ignorance is wasting time trying to communicate with the outside world.
47 posted on 02/10/2002 10:28:27 AM PST by hinckley buzzard
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To: John W
while some of the Patriot Act items would concern me say if a Clinton was President and a Reno was AJ,under W I'm not concerned in the least.

So you think he'll be President forever? And there will never be another 'Clinton'?

48 posted on 02/10/2002 12:21:33 PM PST by TigersEye
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To: The Westerner
Though I agree with George Washington, how his warning apply in this case? I believe the Patriot Act was voted upon in the House and Senate and signed into law by the President.

And was conceived and written by the Clinton administration and not one congresscritter read it before signing on to it.

49 posted on 02/10/2002 12:27:37 PM PST by TigersEye
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To: TigersEye
My thinking would be that,if the citizens of this nation EVER elect another Clinton,given what we knew all along and they should know now, and the things that have occurred within just eight months of his leaving office,we're either finished as nation or we will have the Second Amercian Revolution.
50 posted on 02/10/2002 1:49:56 PM PST by John W
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