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Missing Danielle Parents Allegedly Swingers
Larry King Live ^ | Brenda & Damon Van Dam

Posted on 02/11/2002 5:06:42 PM PST by Petronski

Larry asked them about it just now on Larry King Live (2-11-2), and they refused to deny it.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: libertarians
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To: Petronski
Saw 'em on the news last night advertising their 25k reward... Looked kinda fishy to me. Dear ol' mum didn't look quite as devastated as you might figure... C.f. that woman who had her kid swiped at a Chicago bus stop over the holidays. She had enough hysterics for an entire NOW chapter.
601 posted on 02/12/2002 11:30:24 AM PST by maxwell
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Comment #602 Removed by Moderator

To: twigs
Actually, not. Sorry, but married couples who swap partners are not following the norms of our society. I am not talking here so much about the details of a married couple's intimacy together. But the fact that they switch partners is weird. Why marry? Why have children when you are going to expose them to such? In fact, these folks are now missing a child, possibly because people following their lifestyle had access to their home. I realize we do not know what happened to Danielle, and this could be proven to be wrong. But it still remains a possibility. And these children have continual exposure to immoral parents.

Not following Societies publicly accepted norms is hardly the definition of evil. I make a point to say PUBLICLY because the number of married individuals engaging in sexual activities outside there marriage is higher than most will every publicly admit or realize to anywhere from 1/3 to 2/3rds have cheated depending on the study. Open and/or Swinging relationships have been around long before this country, and will be around long after its gone.

As to why marry if you going to have an open relationship sexually? You would have to ask those engaged, but I would bet dollars to dougnuts you will find reasons as broad as the rainbow. My guess would be they for their own reasons have decided to spend their lives together, relationships are far more than sex, at least to anyone with a maturity level above 18.. in fact that's overall one of the lesser qualities that will ensure a long term relationships success.

Now as to exposing the children to such, this is where you really are losing me. Exposing them to what? No one has alleged they engaged in their activities around or in front of their children. (Assuming they even were swingers, which let us not forget is nothing more than a rumor at best at this point) If this couple got their jollies going to clubs and having casual sex with others, I don't have to agree with it, but I don't see how this alone exposed their child to something evil. No more than the couple who goes to the bar every once in a while. I think none of us live adult lives with no adult content that children should not be exposed to... but just because we do things as adults when children are not around does not mean that we expose our children to them simply by the fact we did them... this seems a bit of a stretch to me.

Now, I will be the first to condemn these two if they indeed were bad parents, and if their sexual picadillos put their children at risk, I will definately be all over their butts. However, as of yet there is nothing other than rumor and speculations... Something definately does not smell right with this, but I will wait before I condemn them as bad parents to at least hear something that isn't rumor that shows them being bad parents.

603 posted on 02/12/2002 11:32:58 AM PST by HamiltonJay
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To: maxwell
C.f. that woman who had her kid swiped at a Chicago bus stop over the holidays. She had enough hysterics for an entire NOW chapter.

Now that woman in my mind DEFINATELY lacked in parenting skills, she lets a complete stranger just walk away with her kid.. accepting a car ride with someone she doesn't know etc etc etc.... Want to talk about someone who wasn't thinking and put their child at risk, that woman definately did.

604 posted on 02/12/2002 11:34:30 AM PST by HamiltonJay
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To: BurkeCalhounDabney
Name-calling and insult is not argument, sir. If you wish to make an argument in favor of "swinging," make one. If you can't construct a proper argument, who are you to call me "ignorant"?

We didn't ask to hear about their sexual addictions and depravities but a few individuals choose to constantly flout them on these threads over and over again. Who in their right mind would post things about their spouse on a public forum if they had even a modicum of respect for said spouse ?

605 posted on 02/12/2002 11:35:07 AM PST by a_witness
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Comment #606 Removed by Moderator

To: Luis Gonzalez
Luis, with all due respect, you're as judgmental as everyone else. You've judged those of us who feel the family contributed to the child's disappearance by their lifestyle. You've judged people who posted here for "not praying" for Danielle. (Alas, you hadn't done your research: many had been praying.) I don't know who will be most distressed at the Pearly Gates, though--those of us who judged the van Dams' lifestyle as deviant and harmful to their children, or the van Dams themselves, for not using any judgment at all.
607 posted on 02/12/2002 11:38:27 AM PST by MizSterious
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To: BurkeCalhounDabney
What I find most disturbing in contemporary America, is that today it is not sin -- but the condemnation of sin -- that outrages people. You can screw everything that walks, but let somebody work up the nerve to say, "Hey, that's wrong," and suddenly everybody's jumping up and down and screaming "Censorship! Intolerance! First Amendment!"

And it's not just that -- if you think that swinging is simply a really bad idea for a variety of reasons, you're automatically condemned as repressed and told that you think sex is sinful and called a religious fanatic.

608 posted on 02/12/2002 11:48:24 AM PST by NYCVirago
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To: HamiltonJay
Want to talk about someone who wasn't thinking and put their child at risk, that woman definately did.

I think this whole thing is also about not thinking and putting their child at risk. Not checking on your children for close to 12 hours straight (assuming the parents' story is true), even after the alarms were tripped and the door was open is DEFINITELY NOT THINKING AND NOW THEIR CHILD IS GONE! I pity them for how they are probably kicking themselves over this. If they love their children (and I'm sure they do) they're going to go through that night over and over and over in their heads and they are going to wish with all their hearts that they had done something differently.

I'll tell you one thing, if they were swingers (and I don't doubt it, seeing as how they won't deny it), I think that their swinging days are now over.

609 posted on 02/12/2002 12:02:43 PM PST by wimpycat
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Comment #610 Removed by Moderator

Comment #611 Removed by Moderator

To: tpaine
Post 585. Take two aspirins and call back in the morning, Tom.
612 posted on 02/12/2002 12:15:04 PM PST by Don Myers
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To: BurkeCalhounDabney
Have you noticed that the so called tolerent people are absolutely intolerent of people with the opposite opinion. It only proves that they are in conflict with their conscience when they hear common sense. These folks lived a risky lifestyle and exposed their child to those risks of which she paid.

Pray for GW and the Truth

613 posted on 02/12/2002 12:20:26 PM PST by bray
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To: wimpycat
All I am going to say is that, I am not going to jump to conclusions... yes not checking on your children for 12 hours if true is a bit strange in the situation portrayed. But I am not going to level virdict against them as bad parents because they may or may not have been swingers.

Lack of denial is hardly proof of guilt, Clinton denied having anything to do with Lewinsky. They may be swingers they may not.. either way, I am not going to condemn them as bad parents even if they were. If they did something to put their children at risk, related to being swingers or not, then I will judge those acts as to whether or not they were.

Time will tell with this case, and I pray that this child and all missing children are found safe.

614 posted on 02/12/2002 12:24:08 PM PST by HamiltonJay
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To: NYCVirago
"And it's not just that -- if you think that swinging is simply a really bad idea for a variety of reasons, you're automatically condemned as repressed and told that you think sex is sinful and called a religious fanatic."

John The Baptist was beheaded for just this reason. They killed Christ who condemned sin. The prophets of the OT days were villified and mocked. They still cannot have anyone tell them that they do wrong. The nature of man has not changed over these many years. They find their "pleasure" in the very things that will kill them.

615 posted on 02/12/2002 12:26:17 PM PST by Don Myers
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To: BurkeCalhounDabney
Post 606. Please see my post 615.
616 posted on 02/12/2002 12:29:38 PM PST by Don Myers
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To: a_witness
"Who in their right mind would post things about their spouse on a public forum if they had even a modicum of respect for said spouse ?"

It is my personal opinion that any man who would let his wife be with another man cares nothing for his wife.

617 posted on 02/12/2002 12:31:45 PM PST by Don Myers
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To: Don Myers
First you imagine 'evil', now you've imagined making a reply.

Why bother posting?

618 posted on 02/12/2002 12:35:33 PM PST by tpaine
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To: tpaine
Tom, I long ago gave up any hope for your posts to make any sense. I just don't take you seriously.
619 posted on 02/12/2002 12:37:26 PM PST by Don Myers
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To: HamiltonJay
All I am going to say is that, I am not going to jump to conclusions... yes not checking on your children for 12 hours if true is a bit strange in the situation portrayed. But I am not going to level virdict against them as bad parents because they may or may not have been swingers.

Did you not jump to conclusions when passing judgement on the young woman whose baby was stolen from the bus station on Christmas eve? Why are you reserving judgement on these parents when you have no trouble deeming the other one irresponsible.

Did being swingers make them "bad parents"? Who knows? On the surface, they were irresponsible. They were certainly irresponsible on that night. You can call failure to check your kids for 12 hours straight strange, but I call it irresponsible. If they had a good reason for not checking the kids, any reasonable person would have given one, don't you think? And since we're not a judge and jury and they're not on trial for being swingers, I'm not going to apply courtroom levels of evidence to my speculation. Since I'm not a juror and they're not on trial, I'm free to construe their lack of denial of their lifestyle as a confirmation. Any reasonable person would deny it if it weren't true.

As to whether their lifestyle led to their failure to check on their children, that's a different story....

But I want to make it clear that I in no way believe that this whole thing is some sort of divine punishment for their lifestyle, or for being "bad parents". We only know that on that particular night they behaved irresponsibly. I have no idea how they treated their kids every other night.

620 posted on 02/12/2002 12:58:18 PM PST by wimpycat
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To: FITZ
You do realize that you have now discounted EVERYTHING other than the mysterious "swinger" pedophile.
621 posted on 02/12/2002 1:23:57 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez
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To: golitely
"You've judged those of us who feel the family contributed to the child's disappearance by their lifestyle."

A) Please show me where I have done that, and

B) Please provide any sort of CONCRETE proof to the idea that their lifestyle contributed to the child's disappearance.

I understand being critical of the lifestyle, I don't understand trying to place blame on the parents based on that fact.

Simply the fact that they may have allowed strangers (I don't buy the strangers theory, from the swingers that I have known in my life, they don't allow strangers into their home) into their house would make anyone who has allowed service techs, movers, painters, wall paper hangers, delivery people, pest control techs, potential home buyers, sales people, etc, etc, etc. into their homes "bad" parents as well.

622 posted on 02/12/2002 1:39:35 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez
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To: wimpycat
Did you not jump to conclusions when passing judgement on the young woman whose baby was stolen from the bus station on Christmas eve?

No I did not, I assumed at first it was a child snatching, only days later did I get a picture of the full story. A story that included a woman who knowingly allowed a complete stranger to take her child and leave her site, who decided to accept a car ride from said stranger with her children etc etc... At that point I decided this was not a moment of misdirected attention, but a series of very poor decisions that lead to this situation. That is when I questioned her ability to be an effective guardian.

Believe me if these people are shown to have engaged in activity that directly led to or endangered their children I will shout from the highest mountain tops that they are bad parents. But I will not subscribe to the mob mentality on this thread that simply because they may have engaged in sexual activities outside of the public norms that that defacto makes them bad parents, have their children taken away and be burned at the stake.

Maybe we better take their other two kids off them right now and call Ned Flanders to perform an emergency baptism on both of them immediately to prevent them from moral rot...

623 posted on 02/12/2002 1:58:40 PM PST by HamiltonJay
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To: HamiltonJay
If they were doing things sexually or otherwise that placed their children at risk or neglect, I will damn well label them as bad parents.

Good parents do not bring strangers home from bars to engage in sex. This is absolutely a negligent behavior. It is absolutely unsafe and absolutely irresponsible. Since a child is missing, this appears to be an excellent lead to investigate.

624 posted on 02/12/2002 1:59:46 PM PST by zevonfan
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To: MsLady
Why does she need a team of advisors?
625 posted on 02/12/2002 2:03:40 PM PST by sheik yerbouty
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To: Luis Gonzalez
Judgment: please re-read your posts. You are definitely judging some of us. That's ok, just don't gripe when we do the same thing.

"Concrete" proof--how about common sense? If you bring home a bunch of barflies you meet during the course of bar-crawling--inviting same barflies for a drug/booze/sex party--what are the chances that among them will be some "undesirables" or at the very least, a lurking carrier of a sexually transmitted disease (if not lice, fleas, and ticks). People who inhabit the "underbelly of society" are more likely to harbor perverts than, let's say, at the church social. True, there might be a perv at the church social, but chances are far, far less.

I'm sure lots of us would be amazed at what we could drag in from some sleazy bar at 2 a.m.--mostly because most of us wouldn't dream of trying such a stupid stunt. Probably the best thing about this is, none of the trash they brought home happened to be axe murderers, at least not for that evening.

626 posted on 02/12/2002 2:13:46 PM PST by MizSterious
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To: golitely
"If you bring home a bunch of barflies you meet during the course of bar-crawling--inviting same barflies for a drug/booze/sex party..."

Could you kinfly show me where you gathered this information from?

627 posted on 02/12/2002 2:23:57 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez
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To: sheik yerbouty
My thoughts exactlly. Why??? Makes you wonder what really went on in that house. G-d bless that poor child.
628 posted on 02/12/2002 2:35:07 PM PST by MsLady
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Comment #629 Removed by Moderator

To: Luis Gonzalez
News items quoted on this thread.
630 posted on 02/12/2002 3:03:51 PM PST by MizSterious
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To: Luis Gonzalez
Thank you for your reasoned replies to this thread, again.

SO many who rush to judgement on all sides...when in reality there is only One who judges.

631 posted on 02/12/2002 3:30:28 PM PST by Neets
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To: golitely
I just went over every single post on this thread, read every article linked.

Nothing of the sort has been reported, or even insinuated. That's my problem with this thread, there have been leaps and bounds in the assumptions about the parents.

A child is missing, that's the story. My problem is that people are starting to forget that, and instead they are focusing on the parent's lifestyle.

I bet you that there are a lot of people out there who truly believe that this is some sort of divine punishment. I bet you that there are also people out there who may have joined the search for Danielle, who now will not.

There is a child missing out there.

632 posted on 02/12/2002 4:40:15 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez
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To: OneidaM
We are all sinners in His eyes.
633 posted on 02/12/2002 4:40:52 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez
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To: Luis Gonzalez
Personally, Luis, I do not think this has anything to do with divine punishment, nor have I seen anyone else say so. I think, if anything, it has to do with personal choices, and their consequences. All very earthly. I don't believe God punishes people by harming little children. Could it be that you're doing a little projecting here?
634 posted on 02/12/2002 4:56:04 PM PST by MizSterious
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To: FITZ
The stranger didn't just break into their home, they invited him in.

It seems likely at this point that it was their next door neighbor,so this doesn't really apply. How many people don't invite their next door neighbors in at one time or another?

It's not just swingers, many single women are good at exposing their kids to whoever also by bringing a trail of men into their children's homes.

It's not just swingers or single women inviting strangers into their houses,it's Norman and Norma Normal inviting in their priest,a child care worker,a trusted neighbor,or even a realtive. The sooner people realize there are no guarantees at all,the sooner they will wake up and start to protect their children from EVERYBODY that comes into contact with them by just starting to pay more attention.

635 posted on 02/12/2002 6:03:35 PM PST by sneakypete
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To: Don Myers
Sneaking thru neighbor's back doors?

LOL! There are some unkind people who made this claim,but that's not really it. It's related to the army.

636 posted on 02/12/2002 6:08:07 PM PST by sneakypete
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To: wimpycat
You're well on your way to getting banned for constantly personally attacking those who don't agree with you, so I'm telling you to cut it out right now.

So be it. If I can't stand up and pronounce the truth as I see it,I don't much care. Especially if I were to be banned over something as silly as telling somebody they are wrong about something.

I'm not in the middle. The chances are statistically greater for the little girl to have been abducted and/or killed by her parents or a friend or an acquaintance than by a stranger, and if the parents and the people they allowed in their house just happened to be swingers..........

Ok,so spit it out. Are you making the claim that swingers are child-molesting murderers? If this is your point,stand up on your hind feet and state it.

You're too busy overcompensating and exposing your hatred of the religious to think objectively.

No,I'm merely stating what is blindingly obvious to anybody who bothers to look and think.

637 posted on 02/12/2002 6:14:13 PM PST by sneakypete
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To: Don Myers
. You make the right sounds to be an inmate.

ROFLMAO! There is no doubt you make the right sounds to be a corrections officer,though. This makes you at least half right.

638 posted on 02/12/2002 6:16:36 PM PST by sneakypete
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To: Luis Gonzalez
After reading all your responses, I have only one thing left to say to you.

Matthew 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

Revelation 2:1

2:1 Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;

2:2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:

2:3 And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted.

Oh, here we go, more "Liberals favorite excerpts from the Bible".......

.....please note the above bolded. Jesus's words, not mine. He is clearly commending them for not tolerating evil, and for calling false teachers to the mat.

Now, go look in the Bible, and see what it says about adultery. (Hint: 'swinging' is covered under this prohibition)........God considers whoring your wife or husband around to be a sin.

You had better come much better prepared next time you start with that libertine nonsense of "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone".......

.......Most of us have actually read the Bible, unfortunately for you.

639 posted on 02/12/2002 6:18:04 PM PST by He Rides A White Horse
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To: Selara
Please, sneakypete, never go into law enforcement!

This advise is a MUCH better fit on you. You are the one ready to convict somebody for murdering a child because you don't approve of their lifestyle.

640 posted on 02/12/2002 6:19:36 PM PST by sneakypete
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To: Luis Gonzalez
We are all sinners in His eyes.

Yes, we are. We aren't instructed to celebrate it, however.

641 posted on 02/12/2002 6:21:10 PM PST by He Rides A White Horse
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To: Petronski
They used to double date with this couple.

BONDAGE BILL & HILL

642 posted on 02/12/2002 6:22:38 PM PST by stlrocket
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To: Solson
He screeches about those trying to impose a religious viewpoint on sex and marriage but when someone takes a logical extension to homosexual sex and NAMBLA type sex, he guffaws at the comparison.

This is a "logical extension" only to a diseased mind.Most people don't equate adult hetrosexual consensual sex to homosexual child rape. Sorry to hear you think they are the same.

643 posted on 02/12/2002 6:23:00 PM PST by sneakypete
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To: Don Myers
He doesn't have the help of religion to help him.

Who do you recommend I call for consueling? Jim Baker? Jesse Jackson? The priest in Baltimore arrested for molesting young boys?

644 posted on 02/12/2002 6:25:33 PM PST by sneakypete
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To: sneakypete
This advise is a MUCH better fit on you. You are the one ready to convict somebody for murdering a child because you don't approve of their lifestyle.

Obviously, in your zeal to defend, whatever it is you are defending, you are willing to throw out proven investigative methods, logic and common sense.

Why do you think Gary Condit was questioned in the disappearance of Chandra Levy? Do you believe that his name was just pulled out a hat?

Using the same age old investigative questions, of who had motive, who had opportunity, who had discrepencies in their stories...Condit stood out like a big roach on a white tile floor.

The original premise here was not that the parents sexual lifestyle caused their child to be kidnapped, but that their sexual practices, most likely contributed to it. Don't know why you do not want to see that.

645 posted on 02/12/2002 6:27:28 PM PST by Selara
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To: He Rides A White Horse
The left uses the 'theocracy' strawman so it may justify banning Christians from the political arena........and why?

Oh,BOO HOO! You used the "left" word on me. Tell me,what makes a police state of the right any better than a police state of the left?

646 posted on 02/12/2002 6:28:14 PM PST by sneakypete
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To: Don Myers
Such a person needs help, not mere sympathy.

You're right. I need help with my "Down with thongs!" movement,and need a BUNCH of hundred dollar bills. Can I count on your help,brother? Should I put you down for a thousand?

647 posted on 02/12/2002 6:32:39 PM PST by sneakypete
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To: sneakypete
Oh,BOO HOO! You used the "left" word on me.

What do you expect when you talk like them?

Seriously, just listen to yourselves........you repeat every piece of leftist propaganda ever written about religion......and you think for yourself? Hardly.

Tell me,what makes a police state of the right any better than a police state of the left?

Again, the liberals have told you that's what it's all about, and you swallowed it.

648 posted on 02/12/2002 6:33:34 PM PST by He Rides A White Horse
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To: golitely
. It is fairly well-known that appliance repairmen are frequently ex-felons.

ROFLMAO! HOO,BOY! Ya really gotta watch that Maytag repairman! They even advertise about how lonely HE is!

649 posted on 02/12/2002 6:34:41 PM PST by sneakypete
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To: sneakypete
You're being manipulated like a puppet by the liberal left. They tell you what we are all about, and you roll over to do what they want, and say what they want you to.
650 posted on 02/12/2002 6:38:23 PM PST by He Rides A White Horse
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