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Eerie article on Yahoo about the shootdown of KAL 007.
Yaaaaaaaaaahoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ^

Posted on 02/13/2002 9:03:16 AM PST by The Magical Mischief Tour

Tuesday February 12, 3:16 pm Eastern Time Press Release SOURCE: International Committee for the Rescue of KAL 007 Survivors

Researcher Wants KAL 007 Crash Re-Opened: Will Present Evidence, Petitions in Washington WASHINGTON, Feb. 12 /PRNewswire/ -- Bert Schlossberg, a scholar from Israel, will present evidence on Thursday that contradicts the accepted theory that all passengers died on Korean Airlines #007 in 1983.

Schlossberg has spent 10 years researching the mysterious crash of the jet, and has formed a new committee to bring public attention to his findings. He and several others will hold a News Conference at 10:00 a.m. on Thursday, February 14, at the Army & Navy Club, 901 17th Street, N.W., Washington, D.C. After the briefing they will deliver petitions, addressed to President Bush and President Vladimir Putin, to the White House and the Russian Embassy asking them to find out what happened to the 240 passengers and 29 crew members aboard the plane.

Nearly all aboard the jet, which was hit by a Soviet missile, vanished without a trace. The cabin of the aircraft was discovered largely intact in shallow water, but contained just one body. 61 American citizens were aboard the flight, including Congressman Larry McDonald (D-GA), nationally known for his anti-communist views.

Bert Schlossberg who formed the International Committee for the Rescue of KAL 007 Survivors last year, is the son-in-law of passenger Alfredo Cruz of New York. The Committee has many supporters among the relatives of the passengers. His book, ``Rescue 007, The Untold Story of KAL 007 and its Survivors'' (Xlibris 2001), presents evidence for his premise:

1) The cockpit voice recorder demonstrates that one missile hit the rear of the cabin, and a second Soviet missile missed the aircraft completely. The cockpit voice recorder tape, kept secret by the Soviets for many years, revealed that the flight engineer reported all four engines functioning normally after the missiles were fired.

2) Japanese radar showed the plane slowing down as it descended until it went below 1000 feet and was off the radar screen. The descent lasted 12 minutes. Radio intercepts record that Soviet vessels converged on the location where it ditched near Sakhalin, an island near Siberia. Boeing says that it could have remained afloat for an hour if the landing was soft. No big pieces of wreckage, no baggage, and only two bodies were found floating on the ocean. The largely intact cabin contained some personal belongings but no life jackets.

In 1991, Senator Jesse Helms (R-NC) requested information from President Yeltsin on what happened to the rest. If they didn't survive, where are the bodies? The Soviets admitted that they had classified documents, but did not make them available. Since then, there has been no effort to get answers to Senator Helms' questions.


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Would it not be sad and unnerving, if the Soviets had indeed rescued people from that plane crash, only to inprison them for live with no outside communications whatsoever in some godforsaken pit in Northern Siberia?

Is that beyond thought? Or just tin-foil-hat stuff?

I wonder what happened to all the bodies? I had no idea that so few were recovered...

1 posted on 02/13/2002 9:03:16 AM PST by The Magical Mischief Tour
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To: The Magical Mischief Tour
Interesting post.
2 posted on 02/13/2002 9:13:50 AM PST by DoughtyOne
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To: The Magical Mischief Tour
This is just tin foil hat stuff. I don't believe that the Soviets missile missed and that KAL 007 landed quitely off Sakhalin Island and they took survivors. Our intelligence was too good to miss that one.
3 posted on 02/13/2002 9:14:56 AM PST by KC_Conspirator
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To: The Magical Mischief Tour
I'd say that it would be pretty hard for anyone to survive the crash. But if anyone did, they would probably meet the same fate that some of our POW/MIA's taken from the Korean and Vietnam wars. I have heard reports that some of them ended up in the Soviet Union at some point after being captured.
4 posted on 02/13/2002 9:16:52 AM PST by Orangedog
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To: Orangedog
Of course, this could never happen here in the US.
5 posted on 02/13/2002 9:21:56 AM PST by Tymesup
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To: The Magical Mischief Tour; KC_Conspirator

:

6 posted on 02/13/2002 9:24:44 AM PST by ppaul
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To: The Magical Mischief Tour
Enlightening. I didn't know there was such a mystery. Wonder if the Soviets recovered some that were alive but killed them instead to prevent anyone talking. What a sad situation to think the Soviets were quite capable of carrying out such a heinous crime.
7 posted on 02/13/2002 9:32:07 AM PST by lilylangtree
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To: Orangedog
Its a fact that during the Korean War the evil communists imprisoned Americans in the gulags until their death, but I think by the 80's we had excellent intel on them. We would have probably sighted this from our birds and we also had direct intelligence from a large undersea "bug" we placed on their main communciation line running under the Oktosk Sea (Sp?).
8 posted on 02/13/2002 9:35:11 AM PST by KC_Conspirator
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To: The Magical Mischief Tour
As I recall, baggage and wreckage washed ashore on Hokkaido for weeks afterward. This contradicts the author's statement that no baggage or wreckage was recovered.
9 posted on 02/13/2002 9:38:41 AM PST by Redcloak
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To: The Magical Mischief Tour
At the time, my boss assured me that the aircraft was shot down b/c the GA Congressman was carrying a list of active American communists--those in government?--who were members of the communist party. That was at a time when it would have meant something. Ordinarily, I would have dismissed his statement, but he was always a reasonable, judicious man who did not make such statements out of the blue. He also had an uncle who had previously worked with Ronald Reagan fighting communism in Hollywood when he was president of the Screen Actors Guild. I can't verify any of what he said, but he seemed to have aa inside track.
10 posted on 02/13/2002 9:41:59 AM PST by twigs
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To: The Magical Mischief Tour
Is that beyond thought? Or just tin-foil-hat stuff?

I'm pretty sure that, not too many years ago, one would have been accused of being part of the tin-foil-hat brigade if they believed in stories of the government tesing was conducting experiments in the 1950's on unwitting civilians with radioactive material. Or that experiments with LSD were being conducted by the millitary on our enlisted men. Oh, wait. Those things DID happen. Now is it likely that the UN has set up concentration camps and spies on us with black helicopters? Not likely. Governments around the world some pretty kooky and some things that are just down-right evil. Flip a coin. Chances are probably 50-50 that there is something to this KAL 007 thing.

11 posted on 02/13/2002 9:43:39 AM PST by Orangedog
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To: The Magical Mischief Tour
KAL 007
12 posted on 02/13/2002 9:46:34 AM PST by SMEDLEYBUTLER
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To: KC_Conspirator
Its a fact that during the Korean War the evil communists imprisoned Americans in the gulags until their death, but I think by the 80's we had excellent intel on them.

Hard to tell when our government found out about this. If it became public knowledge during the 50's or 60's it's hard to tell what the public reaction in the US would have been and what would have happened.

Could you imagine being in-the-know about this in the Pentagon or CIA, knowing for a fact that our men were being held captive in a Soviet gulag and that the only way to rescue them was to risk WWIII? I imagine knowing some of these things turned at least a few men into alcoholics.

13 posted on 02/13/2002 9:52:12 AM PST by Orangedog
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To: The Magical Mischief Tour
pretty much tin foil hat stuff.

read the book and also review of it in Japanese. theory is very very far stretched, within opinions here. the flight went down not that far from Japan w/a number of Japanese aboard.....

14 posted on 02/13/2002 10:14:22 AM PST by AmericanInTokyo
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To: The Magical Mischief Tour
This was an unfortunate incident for those involved and their families irregardless of what happened to the passengers. This incident was a boom for anti-communist propoganda.

However, when Reagan announced to the world that we had proof, as in radio recordings, it costs all those poor bastards in signal intellegence alot of hard work because the soviets immediately changed all their encryption algorythms. We had busted their codes and were listening in from Alaska and points throughout the western pacific. As soon as Reagan let the world know we had recordings, the ruskies knew we had busted their codes. It took a lot of hard work to bust those codes and this caused a lot of unhapiness in millitary intellegence circles.

15 posted on 02/13/2002 10:16:04 AM PST by ChinaThreat
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To: Black Jade
FYI
16 posted on 02/13/2002 10:16:58 AM PST by Free the USA
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To: KC_Conspirator
Our intelligence was too good to miss that one

About as good as preventing September 11.

17 posted on 02/13/2002 10:48:21 AM PST by buccaneer81
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To: The Magical Mischief Tour
Congressman McDonald was a John Bircher who, along withn Congressman Jim Ryan (Gunned down in the Jim Jones Guyana debacle), wanted to do away with the C.I.A. McDonald was replaced by Newt Ginrich in the house.

Please pass the tin foil to the right Dutchie.

18 posted on 02/13/2002 11:06:53 AM PST by conway
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To: The Magical Mischief Tour
THank you very much. THis is a very important issue.
19 posted on 02/13/2002 12:44:35 PM PST by Scholastic
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To: The Magical Mischief Tour
Magic, more question from tin-foil brigade:

1.What was the reason for KAL 007 being delayed in Anchorage?
Was KAL 007 intrusion into Soviet airspace synchronized with Shuttle orbiting above and recording Soviet RADAR response? Yes or no? Can someone provide position of shuttle at the time KAL 007 was shot down to dispel this myth or confirm it as fact?

2. Some sources say there was a dogfight between U.S. and Soviet jets after KAL 007 was shot down. Is it true? Were there any USAF/USN "training accidents" involving jet crews soon afterward?

There could be a lot of reasons for both Ruskies and Americans keeping mum.

20 posted on 02/13/2002 1:29:05 PM PST by DTA
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To: The Magical Mischief Tour
This reminds us of what really did cause TWA800 to go down. The SU-27 air-to-air missiles have much larger warheads than the MPATS / Stinger "beer-can" warheads, and they were not enough to bring down the '47.

To do that much damage, a larger surface-to-air missile, probably from a boat or ship would be needed.

21 posted on 02/13/2002 1:31:12 PM PST by haole
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To: The Magical Mischief Tour
"I wonder what happened to all the bodies?"

Crab food.

22 posted on 02/13/2002 1:36:16 PM PST by Bloody Sam Roberts
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To: Redcloak
Do you remember even vaguely what sources you heard this from? I never read or heard that.
23 posted on 02/14/2002 6:06:27 AM PST by goodell70
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To: Bloody Sam Roberts
Crab food

Good one! My thoughts exactly. And not without reason...

I worked with a Russian-American guy once who said the reason the king crabs in the Bering Sea are so big is because the Russians used to (still do??) flush the dead from the gulags down the ice floes of their Far Eastern rivers which carries the bodies out to sea. Down they go, food for the crabs. (Crabs eat like pigs, by the way.)

And also, I'm not sure, but I think Solzhenitsyn spoke of this in one of his Gulag books.

24 posted on 02/14/2002 6:24:45 AM PST by Washington-Husky
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To: The Magical Mischief Tour
"The New American" (TNA) magazine (goes by that name on the web) had a series of articles on this that can be studied or downloaded. (After reaching the site, search under "KAL007".) I think that these articles may even be better informed that the Schlossberg book. The contention of the TNA author is that the airplane never went into the ocean. (Kind of like the Navy's four engine P2 that made an unauthorized landing at a Communist Chinese airbase several months ago, after colliding with a Chinese fighter jet.) The landing lights of the nearby Sakalinka airport were on and so it does not make sense that the pilots would risk ditching the jumbo jet in the water when they could just land the airplane. Note also that an FAA agent originally announced as a "confirmed FAA report" that the airplane landed at the airbase, based on tracking by Japanese military ("Self Defense") radar. Readers Digest (Dec 93) ran an article on this, raising questions about the fact that this is the only airliner in history that simply "disappeared." The reason the Russians shot the airplane down (never intending for it to be able to make an emergency landing) was because Congressman Lawrence McDonald was aboard. Everyone who knew of McDonald also realized his days were probably "numbered." This was because he was promoting the educational documentary videos "The Subversion Factor" and "No PLace to Hide," which establish, among other things, that international terrorism (even Islamic terrorism, the kind behind the tragedies of Sept 11) is being organized out of Moscow. These videos are also available at The New American magazine web site. Russia put on a big show of searching for the wreckage in the ocean - one that went on for months, but what really happened is sort of obvious. The airbase commander had no idea that the jumbo jet had been deliberately shot down when he announced that the passengers were safe. The Russians were not about to give up McDonald, and so they simply "changed the story." Israeli author Avrim Shifrin (former Russian Army officer who had to do several years "time" in the Russian penal system after applying for permission to emigrate to Israel), who wrote the Bantam "Encyclopedia" classic on the prison system in Russia, reported that his contacts said the Russians even had a U.S. Congressman in Lubyanka Psycho prison in Moscow. There is much more to all of this. Please check out The New American. If you are intimidated by the words "John Birch Society," just realize that there are a lot of "know-it-all" people in the liberal media who seriously mean for you to be intimidated -- very intimidated. Don't be surprised if people like that even post messages here. They do not want you exposed to this kind of information, no matter that it is factual and that it it is related to the safety and future well-being of America.
25 posted on 02/14/2002 6:38:52 AM PST by goodell70
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To: goodell70
"The reason the Russians shot the airplane down (never intending for it to be able to make an emergency landing) was because Congressman Lawrence McDonald was aboard.

I think this is the real reason the plane was shot down. McDonald was enemy number one to the Communists. I was unaware that Jesse Helms was to be on that flight as stated in a previous post.

26 posted on 02/14/2002 7:28:53 AM PST by sultan88
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To: goodell70
I recall seeing video of Japanese authorities beach-combing for evidence on one network newscast or another. This footage included a few closeups of personal effects that were recovered.
27 posted on 02/14/2002 9:08:45 AM PST by Redcloak
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To: Redcloak
Thank you for replying. This was the very point. The "evidence" of the airplane going into the water was so scant -- speaking of the expected quantity of corpses and baggage, not to mention the fuselage itself -- that it suggested "mischief." In other words, the evidence that the airplane went into the water turned out to be fairly conclusive evidence that it actually never did go into the water. I really recommend following the series of articles on this that were published in The New American. It's on line. This is just a tiny part of a massive flood of deception and dishonesty that Americans have been and are still being subjected to.
28 posted on 02/14/2002 1:32:09 PM PST by goodell70
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To: goodell70
So little washed ashore at Hokkaido because it is so far from the crash site. The debris seemed quite consistent with what one would expect given that much water between point A and point B. Also, I find it a little hard to believe that Ronaldus Magnus was engaged in a pro-Soviet cover-up.
29 posted on 02/14/2002 3:17:31 PM PST by Redcloak
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To: Washington-Husky
Thanks for that tid-bit..........I now have 4 lbs of King Crab Legs Ready To Be Steamed for my Wife.....

Thanks Again.......
30 posted on 02/14/2002 3:24:46 PM PST by cmsgop
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To: cmsgop
Hey, no problem! Oh, speaking of dinner -- would you like a link to that thread about the fish salami that the Norwegians thunk up? It's wonderful stuff, I hear (yeah, if you're using it as cat food!)
31 posted on 02/14/2002 5:19:14 PM PST by Washington-Husky
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To: goodell70, sultan88
Bump. Thank you both for taking this issue seriously.
32 posted on 02/15/2002 4:37:11 PM PST by Scholastic
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To: The Magical Mischief Tour
61 American citizens were aboard the flight, including Congressman Larry McDonald (D-GA), nationally known for his anti-communist views.

Wasn't McDonald considering a Presidential run in his future?

33 posted on 02/15/2002 4:50:34 PM PST by Mulder
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To: Redcloak
Thank you for replying. The paucity of bodies and baggage (not to mention the airplane itself) reported found indicate very strongly that the airplane never got wet. Concerning your remark about Ronald Reagan's not being a "conspirator," I might add that any fool also knows that Dwight Eisenhower was not a "Communist Agent" (refering to the ridicule once used against people who expressed concern that as many as 20,000 GI's captured at the Bulge and Normandy became permanent "slave labor" in Siberia instead of being allowed to come home -- see the American Legion magazine articles on this). I strongly recommend to you the video "The Subversion Factor." It's all in there. Go to "The New American" website. Read the KAL007 articles. Read "Masters of Deceit" by FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover. Read the recent book about Senator Joseph McCarthy by James Madison Professor Arthur Hermann. Read the Russian KGB agent Anatolii Golitsyn's books "New Lies for Old" and "The Perestroika Deception." Find out what is really going on. Find out who was really behind the tragedies of Sept 11. Most important (repeating myself), see Congressman McDonald's "The Subversion Factor" documentary video. Since you mentioned the then president, the documentary concludes with this statement: "One thing is certain. Presidents come and go. And they enter office with the best of intentions. But once they are in office, they can be surrounded with people who are secretly involved in this problem that the American public deserves to know about." A very unconventional war is being fought against America, and the American public is being bombarded with dishonesty and deception concerning this basic reality. A hostile foreign power plays on people who are receptive to its cleverly produced propaganda to help carry its amazing program of deception against the American public. Don't be like that. Thank you.
34 posted on 02/19/2002 8:09:40 AM PST by goodell70
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To: goodell70; Redcloak; The Magical Mischief Tour, Mudboy Slim; Flicker
"Go to "The New American" website. Read the KAL007 articles..."

I have read the New American articles and have studied the downing of KAL007 for some time. I do not think it is "tin foil" stuff but rather a Cold War abduction of anti-Communist Larry McDonald and a subsequent cover up.

35 posted on 02/19/2002 11:20:06 AM PST by sultan88
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To: goodell70; ALL
The New American (TNA) magazine

... is a John Birch Society publication and the JBS mouthpiece *and* THEY have NEVER encountered a conspiracy they didn't see fit to make more hay with ...

36 posted on 02/19/2002 11:30:24 AM PST by _Jim
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To: The Magical Mischief Tour
"Boeing says that it could have remained afloat for an hour if the landing was soft."

Planes with missile damage tend not to float in accordance with the manufacturers suggested TTSB (Time to Sink to Bottom).

37 posted on 02/19/2002 11:41:55 AM PST by Harrison Bergeron
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To: _Jim
You wrote that the "John Birch Society never saw a conspiracy it did not see fit to make hay with." Please explain this. What do you yourself mean by the word "Conspiracy"? The basic fact surrounding the question about the Boeing jumbo jet that was shot down by Russia is that its V.I.P. passenger was the chairman of the John Birch Society and as a U.S. Congressman he was exposing the problem of Russian controlled subversion ("conspiracy"?) in America. The following very recent comment by commentator Chuck Baldwin concerning "conspiracy" may be of interest: "However, just because certain conspiracy theories are advocated by people with personal agendas and extremist ideologies is not reason enough to automatically dismiss the facts that suggest there is a conspiracy to steal America's sovereignty and independence. These facts are plentiful and powerful. Only foolish people would dismiss them out-of-hand. As a Christian, I believe the Word of God to be my source of faith and practice. Therefore, I must take seriously the Word's admonition that, "There is a conspiracy" (Ezek. 22:25). In fact, the conspiracy to overthrow righteousness is ubiquitous. If one will study American history, he will note that our Founding Fathers firmly believed that a conspiracy of influential internationalists was behind many of the Draconian decisions of old King George. They said as much in the Declaration of Independence. In the Declaration, Thomas Jefferson wrote, "But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object, evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security." If that isn't a clear reference to conspiracy, I don't know what is. As in British-controlled America 200 years ago, policies advanced by like-minded politicos today attempt to erode our constitutional laws and national independence. Only a naïve person would suggest that this is mere coincidence. I remind my readers that George Bush, Sr. first popularized the name "New World Order." However, he is not the only notable personality that has openly called for such an international order. Former newsman, Walter Cronkite, has openly called for world government. Others calling for world government include England's Prime Minister, Tony Blair; former Clinton cabinet member, Strobe Tolbert; and a variety of spokesmen for the United Nations, as well as leaders from various multinational corporations. To think that all of these people (whose numbers are multitudinous) should not be taken seriously is the height of idiocy. Yes, my friends, there is a conspiracy. No, it is not a Jewish conspiracy. It is a conspiracy of elitists from all races and ethnic backgrounds who deeply despise our constitutional form of government, our national independence, and our Christian heritage. Some are communists; others are socialists. Many are wealthy and well positioned to advance their utopian ideas. They teach in our nation's colleges and universities. They occupy powerful positions in the media and in our political institutions. Many of them are also found behind the pulpits of our churches. The promoters of internationalism may not conduct monthly meetings. They may not carry New World Order membership cards in their wallets, but collectively they form a credible conspiracy to rob America of its independence. Furthermore, as long as patriotic Americans refuse to acknowledge their existence, the more effective they are at accomplishing their oligarchic objectives." Chuck Baldwin chuck@chuckbaldwinlive.com Chuck Baldwin Live http://www.chuckbaldwinlive.com
38 posted on 02/20/2002 7:54:56 AM PST by goodell70
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Comment #39 Removed by Moderator

To: Black Jade
All of this, about how the Boeing 747 was actually a "spy plane," about how (mentioned by others) there was actually some kind of fighter plane "dog fight" going on, and the Jumbojet was mistakenly caught in the action -- all of this -- it all sounds like silly mischief (is it mischief?) meant to steer people away from this simple truth and reality: There was a U.S. Congressman who had picked up the cause of Senator Joseph McCarthy and who was politely (not recklessly) informing the public of the need to reinstitute funding for the House Committee on Un-American Activities, because Russian orchestrated communist subversion of our government was out of control. That's the basic reality. There are people changing the subject, steering it off to this course or that. What is their motive? Are they involved personally with the Communist Party? Are they just "fellow travelers" (persons intent upon helping the cause of subversion, no matter that it hurts America)? What is their motive? If a person has doubts that Congressman McDonald was being followed and that the airliner was shot down for the purpose of stopping him, see the two hour "The Subversion Factor" documentary video that he was promoting. Your doubts will evaporate. At the end of the video Congressman John Ashcroft (Ohio) is interviewed and gives the same basic testimony. Ashcroft was assassinated (murdered) shortly afterwards. See the video. Then you will know.
40 posted on 02/21/2002 6:31:40 AM PST by goodell70
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To: Black Jade
bump
41 posted on 02/21/2002 6:48:21 AM PST by mafree
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To: goodell70
John Ashcroft is the Attorney General.
42 posted on 02/21/2002 6:53:12 AM PST by Williams
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To: DTA
"Can someone provide position of shuttle at the time KAL 007 was shot down to dispel this myth or confirm it as fact?"

I would like to know what you are going to do with the "position" of the space shuttle if someone provides it to you.

43 posted on 02/21/2002 6:56:07 AM PST by Williams
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To: Williams
I mentioned the assassination of Congressman.... Someone please help me. Was it Jean (pronounced "John") Ashbrook? I'm pretty sure he represented Ohio. Thank you.
44 posted on 02/21/2002 2:26:44 PM PST by goodell70
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To: Williams
if the space shuttle orbital position was not above 007 at the time 007 entered Soviet airspace theory that 007 was used as sigint bait can be dismissed outright. If the space shuttle orbital position was indeed above 007 in soviet airspace the theory that 007 was nothing but sigint bait for russian RADARs might be true. It's like someone having car accident and claiming that he was blinded by sun reflecting from the lake. To prove this true or false one needs to calculate sun position and angle.
45 posted on 02/21/2002 4:29:15 PM PST by DTA
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To: Scholastic
To: goodell70, sultan88

"Bump. Thank you both for taking this issue seriously"

I agree absolutely. Apparently some of the liberalized, propagandized "know everythings" here think Jesse Helms is a "know nothing" without informed judgement.

There is barely anyone left who values truth or knows it when it happens to be found in their presence.

Worse yet, these days others try desperately to controvert it because they are paid to do so.

46 posted on 02/21/2002 6:33:02 PM PST by Spirited
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To: The Magical Mischief Tour
Don't believe everything you read on Yahoo...

The airdale said, and I quote, "The target is destroyed." Period, end of story.

47 posted on 02/21/2002 6:35:40 PM PST by Poohbah
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To: twigs
At the time, my boss assured me that the aircraft was shot down b/c the GA Congressman was carrying a list of active American communists--those in government?--who were members of the communist party.

And nobody thought to make a friggin' Xerox?

48 posted on 02/21/2002 6:38:43 PM PST by Poohbah
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To: goodell70
The paucity of bodies and baggage (not to mention the airplane itself) reported found indicate very strongly that the airplane never got wet.

Are you for real?

I don't think you are ...

49 posted on 02/21/2002 6:41:04 PM PST by _Jim
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To: Poohbah
And nobody thought to make a friggin' Xerox?

To believe the Conspiro-loons - yup.

50 posted on 02/21/2002 6:42:59 PM PST by _Jim
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