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Can the US be defeated? (Euro-gag)
The Guardian (U.K.) ^ | 02/14/2002 | Seumas Milne

Posted on 02/13/2002 5:43:46 PM PST by Pokey78

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To: Gumption
We are attempting what the deceitful author of this article suggests- a kind of benevolent American world order with our interests and values as paramount.

I think this is apparent with the naming of the three "axis". Iran, Iraq, and North Korea are hardly chums with each other or solid allies. The North Koreans will deal with anyone who will buy their arms and that includes Iraq and Iran. But Iraq and Iran hate each other and maintain one of the most heavily fortified border regions in the world. We were partially the architect of this hatred as well.

They have limited links to Al Queda as compared to the intelligence services and some of the elite in the governments of our so called Arab "allies". An Honest observer would say that the naming of this "axis" is opportunisnic at best and downright cynical at worst.

I don't place any evil intent on America in this either. We are just following blueprints long out of date from the cold war. We have an infrastructure in place- Diplomatic, Academic, Buearcratic, and Military that is used to thinking in Hegemonic terms and it has never been re-thought since the end of the Cold War.

We are going into this very different conflict- one against a culture- not an ideology- with the same strategem.

Our strategem worked in the Cold War because we knew the populace of the Soviet client states truly hated the Russian rule and that their ruling elite only ruled through repression. We knew this repression and terror was the only thing that held such states in the Soviet sphere of influence. It is exactley opposite now. We support the police states that hold the Islamic popular will in check through repression. We can't win this. I say- Isolate Islam- quarantine it- and let it burn out since their faith is so false as to be a joke. The more we tweak them the more they revert to even more fanaticism.

121 posted on 02/14/2002 5:15:40 PM PST by Burkeman1
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To: ratcat
What if you found out it was nukes, the hard way?
122 posted on 02/14/2002 8:54:15 PM PST by Post Toasties
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To: Pokey78
Instead, this is a war against regimes the US dislikes:

A stopped clock strikes right twice a day. The US is against despots in all areas of the globe. And now is the time to fight to get rid of these Monarchies. It's disgusting that most people can't even vote for the "village" "chiefs".

123 posted on 02/14/2002 9:03:00 PM PST by Concentrate
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To: Post Toasties
What if you found out it was nukes, the hard way?

You never know. We will be nuked at some point, I think, but what is there to do except shoot yourself in the head rather than die of radiation sickness, if you have been highly exposed? It's just another advantage of having the right to kep and bear arms.

124 posted on 02/14/2002 9:10:45 PM PST by Concentrate
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Comment #125 Removed by Moderator

Comment #126 Removed by Moderator

To: ratcat
Sure, the US could target any or all of those countries simultaneously with nukes. But perhaps a more proactive, less destructive alternative is preferable...
127 posted on 02/14/2002 9:47:22 PM PST by Post Toasties
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To: okie01; Pokey78
"In fact, it would only increase further what became an overwhelming military advantage a decade ago with the collapse of the Soviet Union."

God forbid that the eurotrash vomitis, like this gutless scribbler -- or, come to that, like our own marxist-hitlerist socialist scum AKA the "DemocRATs" -- would ever acknowledge that it was our "overwhelming military advantage" and our Moral Integrity, Our Greatest President in 200 years, a Polish shipyard worker and a Pope that effected the "collapse of the Soviet Union."

[And, not to mention -- and on more than one occasion -- and at the cost of more than Fifteen Trillion Dollars of Our Nation's confiscated wealth -- saved eurotrash scribblers and all of their ilk from eating one another into extinction!]

128 posted on 02/14/2002 9:48:52 PM PST by Brian Allen
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To: Pokey78
Europe has proven it is not fit for self-determination.

Instead of present arrangements, let each country there be ruled by a parliament elected by those Americans who are of that surname or ethnic group, or on second thought maybe just by those TEXANS of said group.

Obviously, sorry ole Europe just has lost its will to live.

129 posted on 02/14/2002 9:56:40 PM PST by crystalk
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To: ratcat
Bad analysis. I would say our intelligence knew about 9-11 and did nothing but for a different reason. I would say they were informed by other intelligence agencies but we didnt trust them or their sources. They got it right and now we are cooperating with them and treating their sources with more regard than previous 9-11. Now, there is more cooperation. Do you always go through life with a negative outlook on everything? Our intelligence was ran by a bunch of turncoats for 8 yrs. I think now that we are supplying better support for them they will get respect back in the international community.
130 posted on 02/15/2002 4:51:52 AM PST by smith288
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To: SamAdams76
Great retort.
131 posted on 02/16/2002 10:31:53 AM PST by DoughtyOne
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To: smith288
By golly, I think you might just be right Smith288.

But I'm not so sure it was anything quite so covert as intelligence from other countries. The problem and the threat were very publicly stated prior to 911 and we chose to ignore the warnings of our own citizens on this issue.

As far as this MILNE character goes, whether or not he is the bastard twin of the guy who wrote Winnie the Pooh his pathetic anti-American musings are best ignored. The English have freedom of the press, just as we do, and that means a certain scummy element is going to rise and rise to high-volume hatred of us.

Everything, literally everything, he condemns in us, mostly fraudulent, are sins the British Empire comitted repeataedly though far less brilliantly than we have done.

I find that my life is happier, far happier, if I ignore the rantings of Lefties of every stripe, especially the British/European stripe of Bolsheviks that pollute the WEB and airwaves and cable hookups of the modern (read American) century.

No problem if they hate us, as long as they respect us. And if this is the occasion for Americans to get over once and for all our stupid, daffy longing to be loved, then that's all to the good.

As I said to an English snot the other day, who had the unmitigated gall to try and use our campus here to spread his lies and villainies about us,

"We don't care what you think of us. Continue to honor your idols, who murdered a hundred million souls during tha last century, but before you do, Go back to your island and stay there."

And a pretty good round of applause it got from the "kids" too.

132 posted on 02/16/2002 10:46:32 AM PST by maturin
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To: MadIvan
On this one you and I are in full agreement.

For all the scrutiny of a nation that is seeking to deminish the abilities of terrorists around the world to project their terrorism abroad, none of these European weenies seems to be able to fathom that their necks are on the chopping block as much as ours are.  Where's their scrutiny of Iran, Iraq, North Korea and other states that have not so silently developed their own weapons of mass destructioing, or provided training grounds and haven for terrorists on the lamb?  Why is it that a state that is supposed to be their ally is the one that is most scrutinized?

Yes the United States does have the most power and the ability to project it globally.  Seems I remember a few times when our global outreach was rather handy.  And it doesn't take a brain trust to realize that when Iraq has developed the tools it is trying desparately to develop, that Europe will be the firts target within reach.

This author actually makes the case that not the United States and not anyone else should worry their pretty little heads about nations like these obtaining the bomb and the means to deliver it.

The reason most sympathized with the US post 09/11, was that for only a brief moment they were introduced to the reality that they could suffer the same fate.  They empathized with us.  Then just as suddenly they receded back into the swamp from whence they came.  The evil monster wasn't the perpetrators of the terrorism.  It was the nation reacting to that terrorism.  The monster was the one that sought to deminish the ability of those poor innocent freedom fighters who took down the World Trade Center.

I suppose the case could be made for the US now exerting it's authority gobally in an effort to disrupt the terrorist cells and their networks.  And I guess the case could be made that the US is now ignoring any outside influence and marching ahead to meet it's goals.  But what's the alternative?

Should we allow places like Israel, the Phillipeans, Malaysia and others to be taken down by these radical forces?  While some will obviously say yes, I would like to remind people who is the silent allie of these groups.  China and Russia are both silent partners with these groups.  While Russia makes noise like a wounded bear, it also defends the worst of the potential states, Iraq.  China has been aiding Iran and Iraq.  It's been rumored to have been helping Lybia and the Sudan.

What we are looking at is a network that to varying degrees involves, the whole of the middle-east except Israel, then Russia, China and nations of the southeast Asian Pacific.  I don't think Europe has anything to gain from allowing this network to fluorish.  Instead of damning the US at every turn, I'd think they'd wake up and smell the potential destruction that's just waiting to waft over them.

The Taliban and Al Qaeda are often thought of as local to Afghanistan.  Reality is that verious radical Islamic groups stretch from North Africa throughout Asia.  And they have contacts with China and Russia.  While China and Russia appear to have their own problems with these groups, they are not afraid to lend them support as long as their activities are focused outside their borders.  Europe would do well to take this into consideration and quit yapping like Chihuahuas at our heels.

133 posted on 02/16/2002 11:08:12 AM PST by DoughtyOne
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To: thud
ping
134 posted on 02/16/2002 11:15:04 AM PST by Dark Wing
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To: Pokey78

Instead, this is a war against regimes the US dislikes: a war for heightened US global hegemony and the "full spectrum dominance" the Pentagon has been working to entrench since the end of the cold war.

You all can laugh and attack this author all you want, but he is absolutely correct. If this was still a war on terrorism, we would devote all our resources to get those who attacked us. What better deterrent than to show any wannabe terrorist that we ALWAYS get our man? But Bush didn't even mention Osama in his speech, and now everyone wants to change the subject. Say what you will, but fact is fact.

135 posted on 02/16/2002 11:26:35 AM PST by Zviadist
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