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Draft could toughen-up most-babied generation
Washington Square News (NYU) ^ | 2/25/02 | David Cohen

Posted on 02/26/2002 8:13:21 AM PST by NorCoGOP

NEW YORK -- As the World Economic Forum becomes a distant memory, the memory that I will hold for at least a little while will not be the protesters yelling or the police in riot gear, but a lone demonstrator with a brown cardboard sign with big, black block lettering which said, "NO POLICE STATE." I found this to be rather amusing as this chap who could not have been older than 20 had never lived in a police state, just the freedom of the United States. Granted, I did not speak with him, so for all I know, he may have been from East Germany, but for the sake of argument and fun let us assume he is from right here in the good ol' U.S. of A.

Living in a police state is no laughing matter. Webster, through dictionary.com (cheers for the Internet), defines a police state as a state in which the government exercises rigid and repressive controls over the social, economic and political life of the people, especially by means of a secret police force. Now conspiracy theorists can harangue the CIA and FBI all they want and tell you how they are looking at you right now, but for the most part this definition has no place in this country. As a country that practically pioneered the popular vote, it seems strange to see this nation as a police state. The fact is that if you do not vote, you are a non-person politically; political leaders on both sides of the spectrum do not care about people who do not vote for them.

Fifteen years ago, people protested our nuclear buildup the same way they protest globalization today. They claimed that nuclear power was irrelevant in mass quantities because it did not matter how many times over we could blow up the world, but never stopped to think about the potential. If you find yourself in a boxing match, where you get to decide a fight between a 250-pound bruiser and a 130-pound toothpick without even thinking, you would go for the meatier guy. But little do you know that the meathead has a glass jaw and asthma and the man you think you can take is an 8-degree black belt in Wu Shu and knows multiple ways to incapacitate you with two fingers. The point is that a strong presence is hopefully enough of a deterrent that corporal action never has to be taken. If people understood this and other concepts that may not seem so obvious, maybe they would be more reluctant to claim this place is a police state.

It is easy to complain about things that we never have to worry about, like a police state. What we need to do is work to be able to gain respect for the privileges and rights that we should hold in high regard. A lack of physical work has turned us into the fattest country ever with more children developing diabetes and other weight-related diseases through inactivity and poor nutrition. A military draft would teach us more than anything we can learn in a classroom. It sounds mundane, but maybe all we need is to put young men in uniform and make them appreciate what their grandparents went through, the sacrifices made long before we crept into this world. We need to climb over that wall in the obstacle course to show ourselves that we are worthy of this country.

Tom Brokaw calls our grandparents the greatest generation. While this a lofty title, these men certainly deserve it. We stand on the shoulders of generations past. I don't know about you, but I don't want to be known as the generation that complained about saving an environment that is not going anywhere, or about a program of globalization that optimists see will make the gap between developing and non-developing nations practically gone by 2100. We are only 61 years past the start of World War II, the hardest trial ever. With their blood at Normandy, Bastogne and Iwo Jima, to name a few, our forefathers defended our ability to protest in our own country. They saw a police state and died to prevent their own country from becoming one as well.

We are a babied generation. We have the luxury to post signs about our government and show no appreciation for history. This is a problem that predates Sept. 11. Whether you agree with our nation's response to the tragedy, military service has the potential to be a tie that binds us together. We, as a generation of young men and women, do not know hardship. We are living at the best time in history and do not even know it. If we had some sort of mandatory service, either military or public, then we might better understand why we need to have the right to protest.

Luckily, for those who shake when they think about the draft, or having to get off the couch at all, it does not seem to be in our future. Both Press Secretary Ari Fleischer and Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld have said that conscription is not in the foreseeable future. So open up the cake mix, you aren't going anywhere.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial
KEYWORDS:

1 posted on 02/26/2002 8:13:21 AM PST by NorCoGOP
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To: NorCoGOP
A draft is unconstitutional should only be invoked in cases of national survival is militaraly uneccasary at the present time and using the draft as a means of social enigneering is unconstitutional and evil.
2 posted on 02/26/2002 8:16:14 AM PST by weikel
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To: weikel
Though some of greatest Americans I've ever known - living and dead - were draftees.
3 posted on 02/26/2002 8:19:40 AM PST by onedoug
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To: weikel
It should be noted that you are a college student of draft age. By the way, did you register with Selective Service on your 18th birthday?
4 posted on 02/26/2002 8:22:15 AM PST by SMEDLEYBUTLER
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To: onedoug
Would you have been openly supportive of a draft 3 or 4 years ago? Would you support a draft that sends the troops to police actions and "peace keeping" missions?

I didn't and I don't. A draft in extreme situations may be necessary, but certainly not as a character building program.

5 posted on 02/26/2002 8:25:05 AM PST by Eagle Eye
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To: onedoug
As I recently heard on the History Channel, 67% of WWII vets were draftees.
6 posted on 02/26/2002 8:27:15 AM PST by SolitaryMan
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To: NorCoGOP
LOL! How can you tell you aren't in a police state? You can walk around with a sign saying, "NO POLICE STATE".
7 posted on 02/26/2002 8:29:47 AM PST by TheDon
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To: NorCoGOP
With all due respect, if your parents did not raise you right, I am sorry, but please don't tell me how to raise my own kids. I am doing pretty well, I think.

If their service is needed to defend the nation, that's one thing. But drafting them to "toughen them up" is not needed, thank you.

8 posted on 02/26/2002 8:29:50 AM PST by CobaltBlue
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To: NorCoGOP
There was an e-mail floating around concerning the college freshmen on 2000, about the things that they will not no, remember or have experienced. Things like Cable TV, B&W TV, HBO, video games, Vietman, the Gulf War, Ben and Jerry's Ice Cream. Shopping Malls, internet, camputers, and video rentals. I just remind my kids that my generation invented all that stuff.
9 posted on 02/26/2002 8:31:13 AM PST by SolitaryMan
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To: NorCoGOP
"Draft could toughen-up most-babied generation"

Before we get TOO critical here, lets look back at the Baby Boomers! Basically, you (also) grew up in an economy that saw unparalleled growth (at that time). Your parents who grew up toughened by hard times spoiled you rotten! You threw a collective fit, because you were asked to fight for this country, and the American way of life. So, your parents fixed it so that you wouldn't have to do that anymore, and ensuring that somebody else would do the dirty work for you. You repaid the sacrifices of your parents by forsaking everything that they stood for, and embracing anything that is UN-American!

Now you have the gall to blast another generation as being "the most babied?" Unbelievable!

10 posted on 02/26/2002 8:31:52 AM PST by Destructor
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To: CobaltBlue
That should be amended to say "we" are doing pretty well - my husband and I.
11 posted on 02/26/2002 8:31:52 AM PST by CobaltBlue
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To: NorCoGOP
"If we had some sort of mandatory service, either military or public"

Just who would be responsible for making sure all good citizens take part in this forced service? Could that be the United States government? I think that would start to fall under the defintion offered by Dictionary.com:

"A state in which the government exercises rigid and repressive controls over the social, economic, and political life of the people"

12 posted on 02/26/2002 8:33:50 AM PST by reagent
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To: Destructor
Baby Boomers = Selfish, bed-wetting crybabies.

EE, 1958, US Army 76-92

13 posted on 02/26/2002 8:34:49 AM PST by Eagle Eye
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To: SolitaryMan
Wish we had better CAMPUTERS in VIETMAN ....
14 posted on 02/26/2002 8:36:41 AM PST by Seajay
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To: NorCoGOP
Draft threads are really wasted bandwidth. While I believe military or equivalent service can only help young men and women grow and mature as well gain a better understanding of our responsibilities as individuals to our nation and as a nation to the world, the draft is just never going to happen again. And not only for politics. We simply do not need, nor can we afford, to uniform and train every draft eligible male (much less female) in this country for even short enlistments. And we do not fight wars with million man armies any more. One $24k smart bomb is worth more than 1000 foot soldiers. Its a simple example, but the point is we have led a revolution in military affairs and smaller, lighter, meaner is working.
15 posted on 02/26/2002 8:36:46 AM PST by Magnum44
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To: NorCoGOP
I served with some of the kids from "Generation X" these kids are not only tough, but they are smart! Many of them helped win the Persian Gulf War. These kids are better, tougher, and smarter than they are given credit for being. I hope that will change.
16 posted on 02/26/2002 8:38:11 AM PST by Destructor
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To: NorCoGOP
Draft could toughen-up most-babied generation

Is this really the job of government??

17 posted on 02/26/2002 8:39:34 AM PST by southern rock
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To: NorCoGOP
Personally, I want professionals to ensure my country's security, not a bunch of slackers.
18 posted on 02/26/2002 10:38:02 AM PST by ThreeYearLurker
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To: Eagle Eye
'Never claimed to be "openly supportive" of any draft. I enlisted in 1967. But my military experience would've been far poorer without the draft. Even if conscripted today, I'd go. Some things are just right for often deeper reasons then they seem.
19 posted on 02/26/2002 10:45:14 AM PST by onedoug
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To: ThreeYearLurker
Slackers? I wouldn't advise going there with Vietnam in mind if I were you.
20 posted on 02/26/2002 10:46:32 AM PST by onedoug
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To: Destructor
I served with some of the kids from "Generation X" these kids are not only tough, but they are smart! Many of them helped win the Persian Gulf War. These kids are better, tougher, and smarter than they are given credit for being. I hope that will change.

Thank you! Doesn't anyone realize that 'Gen X' is in it's 30's now and having kids of its own.

If we are the 'babied' generation, It sure wasn't anyone I knew...

None of our parents were together long enough to 'baby' us. My parents split when I was 13, I only know 1 other 'Gen Xer' whose parents are still together.

Hell, I've been laid off from defense-related companies 4 times since I left active duty in '95. In the past 6 years, I was out of work for 16 months (well, odd jobs and crap to make ends meet...). I am now a software systems engineer--it all worked out well.

While somebody was getting babied, a surprisingly large 'unlucky few' of us have been living like it's 1934...

21 posted on 02/26/2002 10:47:54 AM PST by Cogadh na Sith
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To: ThreeYearLurker
I wouldn't want my sons to be drafted with the PC idiotic treatment they would receive. Frankly, most of the military and civilian personnel are a little short of a full load. I live around a military base and I see it constantly. They have no sense of reality.

One case I know of at the fort was a man accused of sexual harrassment by a women because when he answered the phone the cord touched her breast as she handed the phone to him. I kid you not! This accusation resulted in his having to attend sensitivity training after months of trials.

I appreciate the fact that the military defends our country, but I would never suggest to my children that they join any kind of military service. Now the militia is a different story.

22 posted on 02/26/2002 10:53:12 AM PST by Cowgirl
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Comment #23 Removed by Moderator

To: NorCoGOP
The writer forgets the fact that putting all the softies in the military would also "soften" the military. Not a good idea !
24 posted on 02/26/2002 11:14:54 AM PST by america-rules
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To: america-rules
I would hate to have to work with people who dont want to be here, It is hard enough having guys work for me that enlisted and no longer want to be in, but most realize that it is his/her own choice. i do believe that the draft should only be used when needed.
25 posted on 02/26/2002 11:51:29 AM PST by Docbarleypop
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To: NorCoGOP
I've got a better idea. Eliminate Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid, the minimum wage, all public education and education subsidies (particularly governmnent-guaranteed student loans), and the Peace Corps and Americorps (you want to be benevolent, do it on your own dime).

Being forced to provide for your own future is a guaranteed character-builder.

Don't forget that the generation which the government drafted to fight World War Two also saddled us with some of the biggest entitlement programs in history.

26 posted on 02/26/2002 11:55:25 AM PST by SteamshipTime
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To: onedoug
And drafting people into the military because if builds character is a good idea?

How does that correspond to an idea called Freedom?

27 posted on 02/26/2002 12:45:43 PM PST by Eagle Eye
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To: SMEDLEYBUTLER
Yes I did.
28 posted on 02/26/2002 12:55:24 PM PST by weikel
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To: Destructor
Amen brother I registered for selective service and am not afraid of death( afraid of getting up at 5:00am and doing exercise is another matter). I would go if drafted but I just don't think its a good idea. My ROTC buddies haven't said lets bring back the draft( if I asked them about it they would probably say the army/navy/air force doesn't need to expend resources training tons of idiots who don't want to be there).
29 posted on 02/26/2002 1:01:46 PM PST by weikel
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To: Eagle Eye
It has demonstrably sustained the Freedom whereby you an I now dicuss the issue.
30 posted on 02/26/2002 1:07:16 PM PST by onedoug
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To: onedoug
It is hard to get a straight answer from you.

Do you support a military draft as a character building program?

Your resonses indicate that you do, but I want to be sure I understand you correctly.

31 posted on 02/26/2002 1:27:46 PM PST by Eagle Eye
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To: chookter
Not to mention the fact that something like one-third of GenX was aborted, while baby-boomers were valued by their parents, so where is this "most-babied" generation talk coming from?
32 posted on 02/26/2002 1:28:31 PM PST by LWalk18
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To: onedoug
I did not mean to disparage any Vietnam Vets with my remarks. God Bless Them, and the sacrifices they have made for our country.

However today's military is different, and having many friends and relatives that serve, I am glad that they approach their jobs as professionals. They have skills that are essentially mind-boggling to me, and I'm a techie.

With today's advanced weaponry, I want to have the best and brightest as soldiers serving my country.

33 posted on 02/26/2002 1:50:25 PM PST by ThreeYearLurker
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To: Eagle Eye
I don't know ultimately how I feel about it, except to say that if called - even again today - I'd go, and I suppose, die if needs be. So I guess it's a personal thing with me.

Ask me if I think Jesus Christ is God and humanity's saviour, and I'll give you perhaps a dozen convoluted answers all coming eventually to, yes.

And yes, I do feel compulsory military service builds character, depending again, on the individual. As I said earlier, some of the greatest individuals I've ever known, I knew as conscripts.

34 posted on 02/26/2002 2:26:34 PM PST by onedoug
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To: ThreeYearLurker
No offense taken. So often we just don't know what people can do...until they have to.

Best to you.

35 posted on 02/26/2002 2:34:26 PM PST by onedoug
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To: onedoug
It has demonstrably sustained the Freedom whereby you an I now dicuss the issue.

I respectfully disagree. While a compelling argument can be made that being forced to serve your country in the military and perhaps even face combat duty is a character-building experience, there is no evidence that a draft has ever produced freedom-loving citizens. On the contrary, the generations which fought the First and Second World Wars have saddled this country with the most onerous entitlement programs and national security regulations in its history.

OTOH, with a draft, people might think twice about cheerleading for the government's rapacious foreign policy and military adventures.

36 posted on 02/26/2002 2:37:48 PM PST by SteamshipTime
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To: onedoug
Although I'd agree that military service does build character, I'd have to disagree on drafting people for that purpose.

Any military draft must only occur under extremem circumstances, not when we run low of fodder to throw at some small country in a remote area of the world fighting ambiguous causes for ambivolent residents.

IMO, a draft for anything other than a driect threat to American soil (NOT American 'interests!) is wrong.

Building character may be a side effect of a draft, but must not be the reason.

BTW, I had more than a decade of military service.

37 posted on 02/26/2002 2:47:03 PM PST by Eagle Eye
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To: SteamshipTime
On the contrary, the generations which fought the First and Second World Wars have saddled this country with the most onerous entitlement programs and national security regulations in its history.

Good point.

38 posted on 02/26/2002 2:48:38 PM PST by Eagle Eye
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To: Eagle Eye
Ever Thanks for that service, EE.
39 posted on 02/26/2002 3:09:04 PM PST by onedoug
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To: weikel
1943 -"I'll enlist, just don't put me in a unit with any of those ____ well you know who."

1968 - "No Draft, I'll enlist if the country is invaded."

2002 - "No Draft, 'should only be invoked in cases of national survival.'"

40 posted on 02/26/2002 3:24:36 PM PST by WASH
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To: weikel
Why on earth would you register for something that is "unconstitutional" and "evil"? It wouldn't be because you wanted money for college, would it?
41 posted on 02/26/2002 5:02:06 PM PST by SMEDLEYBUTLER
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To: SMEDLEYBUTLER
I recieve no federal money for college( yes my father is paying). Im willing to go if the country needs me but I don't see any reason for a draft now the constitution IMHO should only be violated as a last resort).
42 posted on 02/26/2002 7:46:10 PM PST by weikel
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To: SMEDLEYBUTLER
I especially object to the draft being used as social engineering.
43 posted on 02/26/2002 7:47:45 PM PST by weikel
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To: WASH
Bush has not even asked for military volunteers at all. He has not called up even a tenth of the reserves. There are few combat roles im not enlisting to become a REMF( someone else can do the REMF Bush has not even asked for volunteers except for the freedom corp) and I don't think I'd make it into the green berets or marines( not fat or anything but I can't exactly run a five minute mile or do 100 pushups rapidly either).
44 posted on 02/26/2002 7:55:01 PM PST by weikel
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To: weikel
Don't worry boy we can make a man out of you yet. by the time boot camp is over you will have run walked or crawled 500 miles and done 5000 pushups.
45 posted on 02/26/2002 8:18:02 PM PST by Newbomb Turk
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To: SMEDLEYBUTLER
BTW if a full scale conventional conflict in which the armed forces needed manpower( like a war with China for instance) broke out I would enlist.
46 posted on 02/26/2002 8:18:44 PM PST by weikel
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