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Bronze Age 'Star Chart' Found
Ananova ^ | 3-1-2002

Posted on 03/01/2002 7:02:46 AM PST by blam

Bronze Age 'star chart' found

German archaeologists claim to have found a Bronze Age star chart.

The bowl is thought to be around 3,600 years old and depicts the sun, the moon, a star formation and a ship.

If genuine it suggests astronomy may have been practised hundreds of years earlier than thought.

The bronze bowl is 16 inches in diameter and weighs almost 4.5 pounds but is now in the hands of a private collector.

It was found, together with a bronze sword and bracelets, by two men in Sangerhausen, Sachsen-Anhalt, according to Germany's Express newspaper.

Harald Meller, a local government archaeologist, said: "It shows a journey through the skies. A depiction, that was well known in ancient Egypt, but not thought to be so in central Europe."

The finders, who are alleged to have sold the treasure for around £9,000, have been arrested in connection with fencing charges.

Since then it has been sold on again - this time to a private collector for £215,000.

German laws on the ownership of this kind of discovery are unclear and negotiations are now under way between the collector and office for archaeology in Sachsen-Anhalt.

Meller, who is said to be furious that the bowl was sold, said: "If the slab is genuine, it could well be the most important find in European cultural history."

Story filed: 14:28 Friday 1st March 2002


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS:
I wonder what kind of 'ship' is depicted?
1 posted on 03/01/2002 7:02:46 AM PST by blam
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To: RightWhale;LostTribe;callisto
FYI.
2 posted on 03/01/2002 7:03:36 AM PST by blam
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To: blam
Why, a space-ship, of course.
3 posted on 03/01/2002 7:07:13 AM PST by ImaGraftedBranch
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To: blam
So are there pictures of it?
4 posted on 03/01/2002 7:09:41 AM PST by RikaStrom
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To: blam
Brings to mind the apes and the monolith in 2001 A Space Odyessy
5 posted on 03/01/2002 7:09:43 AM PST by TADSLOS
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To: TADSLOS
What are you doing Tad?........... I'm afraid I can't let you do that Tad.


6 posted on 03/01/2002 7:11:16 AM PST by Texaggie79
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To: blam
Bump.
7 posted on 03/01/2002 7:12:13 AM PST by Constitution Day
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To: RikaStrom
"So are there pictures of it?"

I'm looking but haven't found any yet.

8 posted on 03/01/2002 7:18:26 AM PST by blam
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To: blam
If those artifacts had been found in the U.S., they would have had to turn them over to "Native American" groups who could then dispose them as they saw fit, including reburial at a secret location. They could even demand that no photos be taken of the objects before destruction.

Luckily, in Germany they don't don't pander to "Ancestors of Bronze Age Gemans" groups.

9 posted on 03/01/2002 7:21:15 AM PST by BigBobber
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To: blam
Well, it's a star chart, so it must be a star ship, silly.
8')
10 posted on 03/01/2002 7:35:48 AM PST by BlueLancer
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To: blam
It's bronze age. It was made in greater Egypt [Jerico] and carried over the Alps by the trading party the Ice-man belonged to before he was murdered by bandits. It depicts the widespread Egyptian myth of the Ra spirit on its journey through the heavens.

This interpretation is subject to change if a photo of the object is made available.

11 posted on 03/01/2002 8:57:41 AM PST by RightWhale
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To: RightWhale
"It depicts the widespread Egyptian myth of the Ra spirit on its journey through the heavens."

LOL. My #2 dog is named Ra, #1 Tut, and #3 Nefertiti. (Okay, okay #4 is 'Boots.') My dog Ra has a hyperactivity problem. I want to see a picture of this star map!

12 posted on 03/01/2002 10:45:17 AM PST by blam
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To: blam
>The bowl is thought to be around 3,600 years old

Those were certainly interesting times in Egypt. Maybe the bowl was just taken North by the Proto-Celts who left Egypt sometime around ~1600 BC and they sold it there at a garage sale? Nothing in the article says it was created in Europe.

13 posted on 03/01/2002 11:08:31 AM PST by LostTribe
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To: LostTribe
"Maybe the bowl was just taken North by the Proto-Celts who left Egypt sometime around ~1600 BC."

AHEW! It does no say one word about this bowl ever being in Egypt. Germans have always been known as good craftsmen, huh? (Remember, Thera 'blew' in 1628 BC, maybe everyone didn't go with Moses and some went to Germany instead, hee, hee.)

14 posted on 03/01/2002 11:23:52 AM PST by blam
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To: blam
>>AHEW! It does no say one word about this bowl ever being in Egypt.

Right, I picked up Egypt from this in the original article:" [Harald Meller, a local government archaeologist, said: "It shows a journey through the skies. A depiction, that was well known in ancient Egypt, but not thought to be so in central Europe."]

>Remember, Thera 'blew' in 1628 BC, maybe everyone didn't go with Moses and some went to Germany instead, hee, hee.)

Yep, that's what I was getting at. The blow date of Thera is actually a pretty good match for when the early Israelites from the Tribes of Dan, Judah and Asher bailed out of Egypt by sea and became known to history as the Pre-Celts. The were active in forming colonies in Greece, Italy, many in Spain and more in Ireland. This exodus by sea predated Moses overland Exodus by about 200 years, and possibly more, depending on which Exodus date theory you go with.

The Thera date for the Pre-Celts works for me. It's about the time of the major Kingdom change in Egypt which put the pressure on the Israelites. The Thera bang provides a heck of an additional excuse to leave Egypt, and probably good cover under which to do it.

15 posted on 03/01/2002 1:35:49 PM PST by LostTribe
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To: LostTribe
"The Thera bang provides a heck of an additional excuse to leave Egypt, and probably good cover under which to do it."

Okay, I'm not arguing, but what causes you to believe there were two Exoduses? So to speak. Why couldn't they all have left at the 1628 Thera dang? (I'm asking because I know you have an answer and I want to know it.)

16 posted on 03/01/2002 2:44:11 PM PST by blam
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To: blam
Bump.
17 posted on 03/01/2002 6:30:06 PM PST by blam
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To: RightWhale
Are you referring to Otzi the Iceman?
18 posted on 03/01/2002 6:33:47 PM PST by Utopia
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To: RightWhale
The only reason why I ask is that Otzi lived 5600 years ago (3600 BC) and this article says: The bowl is thought to be around 3,600 years old. Its probably poor wording, but if true, that would mean that the bowel is around 1600 BC, and not from the time of Otzi. If the bowl is from the time of Otzi, then the article is badly written.
19 posted on 03/01/2002 6:39:18 PM PST by Utopia
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To: blam
The people that Floated around the Med in the Bronze age had the same requirements as we, where are we and is it up or down. read the Argonaut thing and ask yourself, why did he sail the way he did.

The second part of the quiz is why is Crete so important in South, North Trade that it dominated access to Europe?

20 posted on 03/01/2002 6:41:09 PM PST by Little Bill
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To: blam
"a bronze sword "......"fencing charges."

There is something funny about selling a sword and being arrested on fencing charges.

21 posted on 03/01/2002 6:44:53 PM PST by farmfriend
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To: Utopia
Otzi lived 5600 years ago

While that appears to be the case and there is no evidence to the contrary, I am just putting sparse clues together to try to get a picture of life back then. Those were less hectic times. What's 2000 years here and there in prehistory? It's not like these days, when what happened last week is already ancient history.

But, you are correct, Otzi didn't have the bowl in his rucksack. He could have had one like it, although it might not have been of bronze. The old myths go back pretty far, some of them.

22 posted on 03/01/2002 7:01:37 PM PST by RightWhale
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To: RightWhale
"But, you are correct, Otzi didn't have the bowl in his rucksack. He could have had one like it, although it might not have been of bronze. "

Otzi was in to copper, remember the axe? They even speculated that he was a copper smelter due to the high traces of copper in his body. (That may have been due to lack of access to tin, not lack of knowledge.)

23 posted on 03/01/2002 7:10:29 PM PST by blam
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To: blam
lack of access to tin

As part of my ancient world, tin, in significant quantity, was imported from Britain by Phoenician traders. They operated until Rome got rolling and established their own trade with Britain.

If it were not for the tin, Rome wouldn't have bothered with Britain. It's too cold up there, you can't get a tan, and you are cut off from civilization. A wild and dangerous tour of duty, and impossible for the legion to keep order.

One has to wonder what the bowl was doing so far north.

24 posted on 03/01/2002 7:22:32 PM PST by RightWhale
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To: RightWhale
"As part of my ancient world, tin, in significant quantity, was imported from Britain by Phoenician traders. They operated until Rome got rolling and established their own trade with Britain."

Yup. I've read that the Phoenicians ran a blocade at Gilbralter to keep other ships from following them to the source of tin, England.

One has to wonder what the bowl was doing so far north.

May be another source of tin? Also, they may have traded for 'raw' bronze and made it themselves?

25 posted on 03/01/2002 7:34:28 PM PST by blam
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