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Details unfold in FBI mix-up
The Baltimore Sun ^ | March 13, 2002 | Gail Gibson

Posted on 03/13/2002 4:43:25 PM PST by Lloyd227

Edited on 09/03/2002 4:50:06 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

FBI agents involved in the mistaken traffic stop and shooting of an unarmed Pasadena man March 1 had a photograph of the actual bank robbery suspect they sought and earlier that day had discovered that an air pistol, not a handgun, apparently was used in the holdup, court records show.

Those details, contained in an FBI affidavit in the bank robbery case, could play a central role in the investigations into the shooting of Joseph C. Schultz, as authorities examine how much federal agents knew about the real suspect they were tracking and how dangerous they thought he was.


(Excerpt) Read more at baltimoresun.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Extended News; Government; News/Current Events; US: Maryland
KEYWORDS: donutwatch; fbi; homelanddefense; lawenforcement; swat
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These jerks who call themselves "agents" need to be put in their place. This is simply disgraceful, worse is that it's not an isolated incident.
1 posted on 03/13/2002 4:43:25 PM PST by Lloyd227
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To: *Donut Watch
index bump
2 posted on 03/13/2002 4:46:34 PM PST by Fish out of Water
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To: Lloyd227
This is a picture of the weapon that the kid (Eagle Scout) was shot in the face with. Feds are using these in routine LE operations in suburbia.

My suggestion: Have something just as powerful in your own home, teach everyone you know or love how to use it, pass it down to your children and never let anyone take it away from you.

3 posted on 03/13/2002 4:54:15 PM PST by AAABEST
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To: ratcat; OKCSubmariner; Donald Stone
BTTT
4 posted on 03/13/2002 5:01:55 PM PST by Uncle Bill
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To: MarkWar
Here you go... I might say however, that experience I had with field agents showed me that they do have some good guys out there. They were investigating corrupt city cops in Philadelphia.
5 posted on 03/13/2002 5:10:18 PM PST by blackdog
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To: Lloyd227,Uncle Bill,Fred Mertz,zog,Inspector Harry Callahan,ratcat,rdavis84,honway,golitely,Donal
This is a statement of my opinion:

Do not worry. FBI Director Mueller and Attorney General AShcroft will protect the FBI agents no matter what they do including murder and maiming innocents. Just ask Lon Horiuchi from Ruby Ridge.

The Nuremburg defense still works for FBI agents carrying out unlawful orders or acting unlawfully on their own.

Civil Rights and Constitutional guarantees for the peasant citizens mean nothing to Mueller and Ashcroft and Freeh and Reno. Just ask Richard Jewel. Only the elites,Congressmen on intell committees like Gary Condit, FBI and DOJ agents and officials have rights any more.

Because of their negligence, arrogance and corruption, the FBI and DOJ under HW Bush, Clinton and now GW Bush created and caused the problems that they now say can only be solved if we give up more of our freedoms.

If the FBI offices should get attacked and wiped out by ME terrorists, will innocent Americans be better or worse off?? Which is better, being "protected" by a corrupt FBI or not having an FBI at all anymore to squander your tax dollars and take away your freedoms?

I predict that the FBI will become the gestapo for the AntiChrist, the enforcers for world government paid for by global taxes someday if they continue on their present course.

6 posted on 03/13/2002 5:31:05 PM PST by OKCSubmariner
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To: Lloyd227
Another FBI agent, Christopher Braga, shot Schultz that day.
Remember that name forever. If he comes to your town, make sure word gets out.
7 posted on 03/13/2002 5:33:12 PM PST by eno_
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To: Lloyd227;nunya bidness
Lloyd227,Thanks for taking the time to find and post this update article.
8 posted on 03/13/2002 5:42:39 PM PST by Donald Stone
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To: OKCSubmariner
Can't say that I disagree with any of the above, but...

be cautious with with your words... people with other ideas are watching...

9 posted on 03/13/2002 5:44:01 PM PST by Lloyd227
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To: eno_
Agent Braga has been in the news recently on another case.
school bus kidnapping

He is mentioned at the end of the article.

10 posted on 03/13/2002 5:45:34 PM PST by ao98
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To: Donald Stone
Thanks for the flag. I'm out of state so I can't catch Ron Smith.
11 posted on 03/13/2002 5:47:30 PM PST by nunya bidness
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To: Lloyd227
Not to worry... the agent involved feels really, really sorry.
12 posted on 03/13/2002 5:49:10 PM PST by rdww
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To: AAABEST
My suggestion: Have something just as powerful in your own home, teach everyone you know or love how to use it, pass it down to your children and never let anyone take it away from you.

Like this?


13 posted on 03/13/2002 5:50:25 PM PST by FreedomPoster
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P.S. My son is in the black at 100 yds on iron sights. :-)
14 posted on 03/13/2002 5:52:06 PM PST by FreedomPoster
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To: Lloyd227
Boy are they in heavy protection mode or what? They screwed up big time, plain and simple.

Typical FBI.

15 posted on 03/13/2002 5:53:41 PM PST by Cap'n Crunch
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To: Lloyd227
The only "error" made by the fbi was that the kid did not die.

The shooting was a deliberate,premediated , conscious act by the agent.

The same thing happened at Waco and Ruby Ridge.

The fbi is now, at this point in time infested with sadistic thrill killers who are allowed to kill with impunity.

16 posted on 03/13/2002 5:59:43 PM PST by sport
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To: Lloyd227
Re-reading this, it's so full of holes, I wonder if they said all this stuff with a straight face.
17 posted on 03/13/2002 6:00:27 PM PST by Cap'n Crunch
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To: Lloyd227
I think these agents, specifically Braga, screwed up big time.

That said, the air gun thing is a total red herring, they were right to consider the real perp, armed and dangerous. The perp had 24,000 to go shopping for a real gun.

18 posted on 03/13/2002 6:04:05 PM PST by TC Rider
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To: Cap'n Crunch; zog; sneakypete
FBI officials have declined to release a photograph of Blottenberger.

He's probably black. What else can I think if the FEEBS aren't releasing a mug shot???

19 posted on 03/13/2002 6:18:01 PM PST by Fred Mertz
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To: Donald Stone
I need help with my reading comprehension. Does this article say that the bank robbery was on Feb 20th and the shooting of Shultz occurred on March 1st?

I thought we were led to believe it was a same day bank robbery mistaken identity incident. I've gone over this article twice. Thanks in advance.

20 posted on 03/13/2002 6:22:02 PM PST by Fred Mertz
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To: Donald Stone
FBI better change Bragas name and post him to headquarters counting paper clips. Maybe they could give him Hanssens office????? What an incompetent group.
21 posted on 03/13/2002 6:25:04 PM PST by cynicom
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To: Fred Mertz
Actually, Fred, I think that whether the perp is white, black, indonesian, or neandrethal, he doesn't look a THING like the victim. I'll bet the differences are stark and easily discernable, indicating GROSS negligence of the fbi in this action...
22 posted on 03/13/2002 6:33:27 PM PST by Thommas
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To: Lloyd227
"people with other ideas are watching" You mean the ones who are supposed to be protecting us but are not?
23 posted on 03/13/2002 6:48:29 PM PST by OKCSubmariner
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To: OKCSubmariner
"...You mean the ones who are supposed to be..."

but of course, who else would cause free citizens to feel cautious about speaking freely? /sarcasm

24 posted on 03/13/2002 6:58:44 PM PST by Lloyd227
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To: Lloyd227
Unfrigginbelievable.

This story just gets worse and worse.

The agent involved here needs a lengthy prison stay and a monstrously large civil penalty levied against him here.

Having said that, I'm sure the FBI will promote him. They have a history of doing that in these cases.

L

25 posted on 03/13/2002 7:05:57 PM PST by Lurker
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To: Fred Mertz
Couldn't find a pic of junior, but his pop may have died in Vietnam.

BLOTTENBERGER MICHAEL J, PFC ARMY, BALTIMORE, MD. , 01MAR70 S.VIETNAM 27JUL49, HOSTILE,KILLED

26 posted on 03/13/2002 7:19:12 PM PST by csvset
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To: Thommas
"Actually, Fred, I think that whether the perp is white, black, indonesian, or neandrethal, he doesn't look a THING like the victim. I'll bet the differences are stark and easily discernable, indicating GROSS negligence of the fbi in this action..."

I wouldn't be surprised if Braga knew right away this wasn't the guy they were after, but still couldn't put down the tough guy attitude. He was pumped, primed, and ready for action. Wasn't about to let the facts get in the way of having some fun pushing people around.

27 posted on 03/13/2002 7:22:46 PM PST by Bob Mc
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To: Lloyd227
All on this thread.

Dunno if someone else has caught this yet. If so, sorry -- if not, here it is. Michael J. Blottenberger, Jr. is from Maryland and is 32 years old.

A Michael J. Blottenberger, make that PFC Michael J. Blottenberger, died in 1970 in Vietnam.

d.o.l.

Criminal Number 18F

28 posted on 03/13/2002 7:29:04 PM PST by Criminal Number 18F
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To: csvset
Sheesh... beat me... and by ten full minutes!

d.o.l.

Criminal Number 18F

29 posted on 03/13/2002 7:30:26 PM PST by Criminal Number 18F
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To: Lloyd227
A day will come when these Ashcroft's thugs (just as they were Reno's) will overstep the bounds, and agents like Chris Braga will die.

One day enough will be enough, and the armed federal goons that run our society will be put down and a Constitutional government restored. And I guarantee it isn't going to come about with letters to Congressmen. It's going to come about with the muzzle of a rifle and shotgun.

30 posted on 03/13/2002 7:32:31 PM PST by fogarty
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To: AAABEST
Another suggesstion: Teach your family to make accurate, quick head shots.
31 posted on 03/13/2002 7:33:20 PM PST by fogarty
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To: Criminal Number 18F
From the Vietnam Memorial database:

MICHAEL J BLOTTENBERGER
Panel : 13W Line 070
Army
Private First Class Pay grade E3
Killed in action March 1, 1970 by small arms fire
ground casualty gun, hostile, died in Binh Dinh South Vietnam.

The body was recovered.

Home of record was BALTIMORE, MD.

Born July 27, 1949 age at death 20.
A Caucasian Male, Married. Religous affiliation Methodist.
CAACF Record Number : 214561569

I sure don't think that Mike Blottenberger would like it if he knew his son grew up to be a criminal, or that the FBI used him as an excuse to shoot somebody else. There's just one tragedy after another ....

Now to see who was fighting in Binh Dinh in March '70.

d.o.l.

Criminal Number 18F

32 posted on 03/13/2002 7:35:54 PM PST by Criminal Number 18F
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Comment #33 Removed by Moderator

To: Criminal Number 18F
On March 1, 1970, elements of the 173rd Airborne Brigade and attached elements of the 101st Airborne Division (specifically 3/506) were finishing up a fight with lots and lots of NVA in the Mang Yang Pass neighbourhood. By this time most of the contacts were tapering off, and the casualty database says that this Blottenberger was the only man killed in Binh Dinh that day (well, the only American).

Now, we have no proof that he is the father of this bank robber. But the numbers align nicely and it is an unusual name.

d.o.l.

Criminal Number 18F

34 posted on 03/13/2002 7:55:12 PM PST by Criminal Number 18F
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To: OKCSubmariner
You get the biscuit!
35 posted on 03/13/2002 7:55:46 PM PST by Righty1
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To: blackdog
>I might say however, that experience I had with field agents showed me that they do have some good guys out there.

Have you ever read these "Let's hate the cop threads" carefully?

It's one thing to be upset with a specific incident. But many of the people who hang out in these constant threads, day after day, (the activists) have strange brain problems. They're not upset with specific incidents. They're upset with the entire concept of law enforcement.

Nothing good can come from assoicating yourself with these people.

These libertarian nuts are no different from the liberal bleeding heart nuts who say that all guns and all gun owners are bad because there are a tiny minority of scum bags and reckless idiots and outright criminals who own/use guns.

If I were going to be a psychologist, I'd say, in fact, that the brain damage is the same, just manifesting itself in opposite ways:

But these sad, sick people -- the liberals and the libertarians -- have no more in common with "normal" and "healthy" people do that, say, anorexcic/bulemic or obese people do. Some people just have brain problems. They react to normal human life by flipping off to psycho extremes. We should have pity on them, and we should be available to help them get themselves back to good health if they choose to try. But we should NOT indulge them and make them think that their sickness is "normal" or even acceptable.

I'm done with these let's hate the cop threads. Nothing good can come from being here. You sad, sick, psycho, libertarian losers (I don't mean you, blackdog, I mean the activists) need to help yourselves before you mingle with decent, normal, thinking people.

Mark W.

36 posted on 03/14/2002 6:34:29 AM PST by MarkWar
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To: MarkWar
Why aren't they releasing a picture (the mug shot) of the real bank robber?
37 posted on 03/14/2002 6:38:35 AM PST by Fred Mertz
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To: nunya bidness
Thanks for the flag. I'm out of state so I can't catch Ron Smith.

If you have a decent Internet connection you can catch him on WBAL radio on the internet.

38 posted on 03/14/2002 6:42:54 AM PST by Cool_V
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To: Fred Mertz
I thought we were led to believe it was a same day bank robbery mistaken identity incident. I've gone over this article twice.

That was my impression also, but going back and re-reading some of the early articles it appears that the FBI are claiming they were trying serve a warrant on Blottenberger Jr.

Blottenberger robbed the bank on Feb. 20 2002

Shooting took place Friday evening March 1, 2002

Excerpts from Baltimore Sun

Originally published March 2, 2002

FBI agents searching for an armed bank robber pulled over the wrong car last night on Fort Smallwood Road in Pasadena and shot a man in the face who had no connection to the crime, authorities said.

Several FBI agents were working with Anne Arundel police Friday to serve an arrest warrant on a man suspected robbing a bank. He is believed to be armed and dangerous, Gulotta said.

Excerpts from Baltimore Sun

Published March 5, 2002

Michael J. Blottenberger Jr., 32, of the 1600 block of Locust St. in Baltimore, was charged with bank robbery and made an initial appearance yesterday before a federal magistrate.

Schultz and Harkum, both of Pasadena, were returning home in her red Pontiac Grand Am after a shopping trip about 6 p.m. Friday when FBI agents in plain clothes and an unmarked car pulled the couple over on Fort Smallwood Road in Pasadena.

The agents were looking for Blottenberger, who was wanted in connection with the Feb. 20 robbery of an Allfirst Bank branch and who was believed to be driving in a red sedan Friday.

During an initial appearance yesterday before U.S. Magistrate Judge James K. Bredar, Blottenberger had short-cropped, light brown hair and wore wire-rimmed eyeglasses. He had a large tattoo on the back of his neck.

39 posted on 03/14/2002 1:53:40 PM PST by Donald Stone
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To: Donald Stone
Thanks alot, Donald. This news is slowly dripping away, just like the feds want it to.
40 posted on 03/14/2002 5:28:56 PM PST by Fred Mertz
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To: Fred Mertz
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41 posted on 03/14/2002 5:29:51 PM PST by Bob J
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To: ratcat
BTTT
42 posted on 03/14/2002 5:41:55 PM PST by Uncle Bill
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To: Fred Mertz
Sounds like it has already vaporized !!!!!

Our super secret FBI has struck again.

No ethics, no integrity, no accountability !!!!!!

43 posted on 03/14/2002 5:44:43 PM PST by Donald Stone
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To: Fred Mertz
It would be nice if someone could find & post this affidavit.

Those details, contained in an FBI affidavit in the bank robbery case, could play a central role in the investigations into the shooting of Joseph C. Schultz, as authorities examine how much federal agents knew about the real suspect they were tracking and how dangerous they thought he was.

44 posted on 03/14/2002 5:50:05 PM PST by Donald Stone
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To: Fred Mertz
Still doesn't answer the question, if Blottenberg Jr. was considered armed and dangerous why did the FBI approach the victims car leaving the safety and protection of their vehicle and not demand that the victims exit their car.

"In general terms, anytime anyone robs a bank, and a gun is displayed, they're considered armed and dangerous," said Special Agent Peter A. Gulotta Jr., who said that in assessing how risky a capture might be, agents also consider a suspect's criminal history.

45 posted on 03/14/2002 5:56:44 PM PST by Donald Stone
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To: sport
The shooting was a deliberate,premediated , conscious act by the agent.

Sorry,but I ain't buying that. It was the result of a dumb ass being allowed to become a Feeb,and another Feeb being stupid enough to allow him to carry a rifle. This idiot was approaching a car from the rear with the safety off and his finger on the trigger. I'm convinced it was a accidental shooting.

46 posted on 03/17/2002 6:45:02 AM PST by sneakypete
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To: Fred Mertz
He's probably black.

I doubt it. Not with a name like "Blottenberger".

What else can I think if the FEEBS aren't releasing a mug shot???

He probably looks nothing like the young man who was shot,and the Feebs don't want "civilians" making judgements on their abilities. Or lack of abilities.

47 posted on 03/17/2002 6:48:19 AM PST by sneakypete
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To: sneakypete
I'm convinced it was a accidental shooting.

Sorry, in my worldview, there's no such thing as an "accidental shooting". This strikes me as, at best, a negligent discharge, and at worst, a totally inappropriate intentional discharge that should be prosecuted as an attempted homicide.

48 posted on 03/17/2002 6:59:21 AM PST by FreedomPoster
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To: MarkWar
Out of 80 million gun owners owning 200 million guns, only a tiny minority are criminal, and of those, a majority who are caught are prosecuted and incarcerated. Nevertheless, liberals would seek to deny gun ownership to everybody because of the actions of this minority.

This situation is completely different with the FBI:

An FBI agent murders a woman nursing her baby, and charges against him are dropped, and he is promoted. Agents repeatedly lied at the trials of the survivors, but none are prosecuted for perjury.

In Waco, the FBI at worst murdered 80 people in cold blood, and at best, gassed them to incapacity, and then denied fire trucks from putting out the fire that killed them. Not a single one faced any criminal charges for any part of the event.

The FBI was ordered to surrender documents pertaining to the defense of OKC bombing suspects McVeigh and Nichols... for some reason, some 3,000 pages of such evidence was withheld, against the law, and in violation of the court order and in violation of due process for the defendents. No agent faces any criminal charges for this mistake.

While in charge of investigating the crash of TWA 800, FBI agent-in-charge James Kallstrom took a souvenier flag from the wreckage and gave it to a family member of one of the victims, despite a law prohibiting souvenier collection from crashes. Kallstrom was not prosecuted. But when investigative journalist James Sanders obtained samples of seat fabric for testing (from one within the investigation who had lost faith in it) he was prosecuted by the FBI under the anti-souveneir-collecting law for pilfering wreckage, even though the sample was obtained for investigative purposes, unlike the one taken by Kallstrom.

Now we have a case in which FBI agents have shot an innocent, unarmed person, refused the person medical care, and now is trying to suppress investigation of the shooting.

There are other similar cases not summarized here. Together, they paint a disturbing pattern that FBI agents as a rule, not the exception, are unaccountable and operate above the law. If these cases don't convince you something with the FBI is seriously wrong, just what would it take?

49 posted on 03/17/2002 7:32:39 AM PST by coloradan
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To: FreedomPoster
, there's no such thing as an "accidental shooting". This strikes me as, at best, a negligent discharge,

They are the same thing.

50 posted on 03/17/2002 9:33:39 AM PST by sneakypete
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