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FBI agents said to oppose inquiry (shooting of Eagle Scout in Maryland)
Baltimore Sun ^ | March 15, 2002 | Gail Gibson

Posted on 03/15/2002 6:22:07 AM PST by Mulder

Edited on 09/03/2002 4:50:06 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

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To: Mulder
Where are you John Ashcroft?!?!?! Another FBI murder of an innocent citizen has now blossomed into a coverup with OTHER FBI agents openly intimidating investigators. Where are you, you God fearing man? Maybe you should write another nice little song about eagles and patriots and teach the FBI to sing it.
51 posted on 03/15/2002 9:57:31 AM PST by mercy
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To: Fred Mertz
Now that the top 3 most corrupt FBI field offices in Maryland have weighed in I guess that settles "It was a clean shot".

After all who could question the ethics & integrity of the head of the FBI for Maryland, Lynne A. Hunt,

FBI Baltimore Office, Lynne A. Hunt, SAC

FBI Calverton field office, Jim Ellis

FBI Annapolis field office, Dave Midura SAC

Sounds like the FBI is running out of field offices in Maryland to make comments about their justification for shooting an innocent man in the face with an assualt rifle.

I've had dealings with all 3 of these field offices, it is the standard FBI M.O.

The FBI attorney I dealt with at Calverton has transfered to Ohio.

52 posted on 03/15/2002 9:59:07 AM PST by Donald Stone
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To: Teacher317
Accountabilty,ethics & integrity all the things the FBI leadership lacks, look at the supervisors Lynne A. Hunt, FBI Baltimore and Dave Midura,if the shooter was from the FBI Annapolis,MD. field office.
53 posted on 03/15/2002 10:06:41 AM PST by Donald Stone
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To: cynicom
For that matter we haven't heard any comments from Robert Mueller, Director of the FBI.

I wonder which rock in D.C. Mueller is hiding under.

54 posted on 03/15/2002 10:11:03 AM PST by Donald Stone
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To: Mulder
****Hodgson said that Wichner warned him that he would "end up looking pretty silly" once the shooting was ruled justified. In the call from Ellis, Hodgson said, he was told that he would be blocked from social interaction with his former FBI colleagues and friends if he worked on this case. Hodgson said it was Ellis who warned, "There's no middle ground on this thing. You're either with us or against us." ****

So it's the FBI against half the American people is that it agent Hodgson? It'd be more than half if they ever actually knew how you all murdered this kid and danced around his innocent bleeding body. You phucking scum! You traitor! You and those like you in the FBI are nothing but gubmint goons. Jack booted thugs. You are the dogs of Animal Farm and may God damn you to eternal hell. (Unless you repent of course. Fat chance.)

55 posted on 03/15/2002 10:14:21 AM PST by mercy
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To: Harrison Bergeron
This investigator knew that FBI agents that are corrupt hate having their names exposed in the media,especially with something as controversial as this.

One noteworthy point is that the PI was not intimidated. He's naming names - FBI agent names - and to the press no less.

56 posted on 03/15/2002 10:17:55 AM PST by Donald Stone
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To: Mulder
Dudley F.B. "Butch" Hodgson...

I think this is the same FBI agent, "Butch" that was in our Moto Guzzi Club - used to ride with him.

Must suck to defend the indefensible.

57 posted on 03/15/2002 10:19:52 AM PST by Wm Bach
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To: mercy
"It'd be more than half if they ever actually knew how you all murdered this kid and danced around his innocent bleeding body. "

It needs to be repewated that the kid is not dead. He's recovering at home and will "require reconstructive surgeries" to rebuild what's left of his cheek, jaw, nasal passages, and sinus cavity. In a nutshell, he's maimed for life.

Were I the father of this boy, I'd make it my life's mission to make SPECIAL AGENT CHRISTOPHER BRAGA'S life at least as miserable as my son's.

58 posted on 03/15/2002 10:25:35 AM PST by Harrison Bergeron
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To: Donald Stone
Donald...

We will hear nothing from Mueller, Ashcroft or Bush. The coverup will be ironclad. The perp shooter will walk, just like Horiuchi and the others.

59 posted on 03/15/2002 10:40:22 AM PST by cynicom
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To: Teacher317
Thank you for your post #23.
60 posted on 03/15/2002 10:52:26 AM PST by headsonpikes
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To: cynicom
The perp shooter will walk, just like Horiuchi and the others.

Not this time.

Braga should be crucified. After being flayed.

Make it long and agonizing. But not so long that he has a chance to ask God for forgiveness.

61 posted on 03/15/2002 10:53:59 AM PST by Darth Sidious
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To: Mulder
If the victim had not been CAUCASIAN, either heads would have rolled or there probably would have been an all out riot. If people riot in defense of fleeing criminals, a fortiori in defense of an eagle scout.
62 posted on 03/15/2002 10:55:45 AM PST by rebdov
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To: Mulder
I am sure the FBI opposes a inquiry to the shooting. The jack booted thugs do not want the possibility of being charged with murder.
63 posted on 03/15/2002 10:58:28 AM PST by Texbob
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To: scouse
Is that name Baga or Braga?

His name is Mudd.

64 posted on 03/15/2002 11:12:35 AM PST by Darth Sidious
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To: Harrison Bergeron
"...Were I the father of this boy, I'd make it my life's mission to...:

I have four sons of my own, the oldest is almost the same age as this young man. It's all I can do to avoid completing that sentence above in print.

Need to just hold that thought

65 posted on 03/15/2002 11:51:46 AM PST by Lloyd227
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To: Harrison Bergeron
Yer right. I forgot to add 'attempted to'. I stand corrected.
66 posted on 03/15/2002 11:52:41 AM PST by mercy
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To: harpseal
"There's no middle ground in this thing. You're either with us or against us."

On this, at least, I can agree with the FBI and their comrades. There is no middle ground, and its hould be obvious beyond question where the FBI and their brother agencies stand. Only consequences remain.

67 posted on 03/15/2002 12:21:30 PM PST by Noumenon
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To: Darth Sidious
God may forgive Braga. The rest of us won't. This is evil, not a 'mix up' or an 'accident'.
68 posted on 03/15/2002 12:23:14 PM PST by Noumenon
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To: Mulder
"Bush only cares about Bush"

And here I thought it was Clinton who only cared about bush. Thanks for the correction. ;)

69 posted on 03/15/2002 12:25:03 PM PST by reagent
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To: headsonpikes
"The official agency position is we would not do anything to discourage the people aggrieved here from pursuing every option open to them," said Assistant Director John E. Collingwood, a spokesman with FBI headquarters in Washington.

The disingenuity of this statement sickens me. That's so easy to say when you have unlimited resources to use agaisnt those who have been wronged. Schultz' family will wind up bankrupt, the son a disfigured cripple for the rest of his life, the perp will walk and worst of all ,the culture and the mindset that made this possible will have been validated. The bottom line is that it's open season on anyone they choose to target. They're right - there is no middle ground.

70 posted on 03/15/2002 12:43:03 PM PST by Noumenon
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To: Noumenon
"You're either with us or against us".

Get with the program, Mr. Noumenon, or feel the wrath of 'your' government.

71 posted on 03/15/2002 1:00:17 PM PST by headsonpikes
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To: Harrison Bergeron
Don't get too exited, Harrison, the PI should be committing suicide any day now....
72 posted on 03/15/2002 1:06:05 PM PST by unamused
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To: Noumenon
When all appeals for justice are rejected. when all attempts at reason are ignored when it is clear that their only justification is raw naked power and even those who had once been a part of the organization are subject to being crushed undefoot what other recourse do men who once were free have than the rules .308, 5.56, etc.

Stay well - Stay safe- Stay armed - Yorktown

73 posted on 03/15/2002 1:13:56 PM PST by harpseal
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To: antidemocommie
Since the days of clinton, the FBI has been out of control.

Check your history. The shooting of Randy Weavers wife occurred during the Bush the First administration.

74 posted on 03/15/2002 1:36:33 PM PST by meia
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To: Noumenon
"Only consequences remain."

Agreed, and it's way past time

75 posted on 03/15/2002 1:38:59 PM PST by Lloyd227
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Comment #76 Removed by Moderator

Comment #77 Removed by Moderator

To: meadsjn,Squantos,harpseal,Twodees,The Shrew
Bump till later, gotta post and run.
78 posted on 03/15/2002 2:32:45 PM PST by Travis McGee
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To: Mulder
>>"They say the office opinion on this case is, 'It's a good shooting,'"<<

I wonder how many of these Brownshirts are going to burn in Hell?

79 posted on 03/15/2002 2:41:08 PM PST by SerpentDove
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Comment #80 Removed by Moderator

To: Mulder
>>I wounder if President Bush is "madder than heck" about this, like he was when one of his Royal Guards was kicked a commercial airliner?<<

Exactly! He probably sleeps like a baby.

81 posted on 03/15/2002 2:51:49 PM PST by SerpentDove
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To: Mulder
Whaddya think about Giuliani(sp)? Also, has this story gotten any play in the national news?
82 posted on 03/15/2002 2:56:52 PM PST by stands2reason
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To: alamo-girl
fyi.

That agent's words that you are either for us or against us are frightening, a form of homeland terrorism, IMO. Bush presumably meant that sentence for non-US citizens, and did not intend that it be turned against normal inquiries into the government that can and does kill its citizens. How does being an innocent civilian investigating the death by law enforcement turn a citizen into an anti-American? It does not. The president's words in the mouths of power-hungry law enforcement officers are cruelly twisted, misapplied truth.

I don't like this.

83 posted on 03/15/2002 3:30:41 PM PST by GretchenEE
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To: Fred Mertz
--even if it was the actual bank robber involved it's not a 'clean shoot". Police are not the official judges and executioners in this country. There was no firearm present at the scene, and you do NOT shoot unless you KNOW there's a firearm pointed at you or another innocent. That's the risk you take being a cop, tuff kitty if you can't handle that, you don't kill people on suspicion only. You can bet your bippy if it was one of these fedcops kids got shot 'accidentally" by some other cop they'd be all over him.

The fed needs to resign at a minimum, and go back to being a mercenary, which is all he is now. He's not a cop, he's an assassin, and a poor one to boot. You can get ex-spetnatz shooters for 1/4 of what they give fibber agents and get better quality hired guns if that's all they want. And they can have all the internal reviews they want, a judge ruled last year that fibbers CAN be tried in state court for manslaughter or murder. They could have tried horribleuchi but they didn't, but the potential is on the books now. Let him get at least manslughter and pull the automatic federal minimum time they are pushing with any felony involving a gun, see how that sinks in to fed cop dom. See how they like project exile. And I hope they raid his house and kick the doors in and toss in some flashbangs and search for other weapons and stomp his wife and kids, slap em around and scream curses at them, then accumulate his household crap and call it 'bomb making" material.

Will it happen, heck no, because they are the "elite" and serve "the elite" above them and if you are just a lowly civvie you are a scumbag perp automatically.

84 posted on 03/15/2002 3:40:47 PM PST by zog
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To: antidemocommie
"Since the days of clinton, the FBI has been out of control".

This statement is true in spades for ATF too.

86 posted on 03/15/2002 4:30:16 PM PST by hgro
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Comment #87 Removed by Moderator

To: Mulder
The only way it can get cleaned up, IMHO, is for a President to be committed to fixing it (Bush is apparently not interested). It would do a lot of good to bring in an "outsider" to run the bureau. A police chief (one who worked his way up, not a political hack) from a small to medium sized department would be a better choice than this Mueller selection.

Taking police department reform efforts as an example, it would still be quite difficult for an outsider to fix things. There's just too much political baggage.

There needs to be additional political pressure from another source. If states, who are responsible for protecting the rights of its citizens, were to respond vigorously to each and every incident of abuse, it might provide the necessary pressure. We as state citizens, should in turn pressure state officials to do this every time, like clockwork.

88 posted on 03/15/2002 4:42:36 PM PST by Database
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To: Mulder
Well the big "shake-up" at INS was having four incompetent bureaucratic geeks play musical chairs. What will happen at the FBI? Probably a sensitivity training course i.e. don't shoot the taxpayers morons!
89 posted on 03/15/2002 4:51:56 PM PST by Righty1
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To: Mulder
Clean Shoot??? Oh yeah, like TWA 800, a clean fuel tank explosion! Waco, a clean funeral pyre! Ruby Ridge, a clean mother and infant shooting! Vince Foster, a clean cover-up shooting! OKC, a clean ATF bungle!

The FBI! F*cking Bureaucratic Incompetents!! They're dishonest, violent, lying bastards! The New Gestapo!! And they're coming to your house next!!! Be ready! Be prepared!

90 posted on 03/15/2002 4:52:19 PM PST by Doc Savage
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To: Harrison Bergeron
Ref: Your post # 26.

I hope you are right, but history suggests otherwise.
The next fbi agent that is prosecuted for for shooting someone for the thrill of it will be the first one.

91 posted on 03/15/2002 5:12:11 PM PST by sport
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To: cynicom
I would hope that Bush would be "furious" about this sad affair, however, I doubt it is of any concern to him. I have seen nor heard of anything from Ashcroft either. Now is the time to charge the man with manslaughter, let the chips fall where they may. Of course this will never happen.

Well YOU KNOW how the PRESS hates GW, And he needs to Adress this Before Many more Innocent Americans get capped by the JBT, perhaps WE as in the FReepers need to Start Protesting or Picketing the White House about this.

You know damned well the Press will cover it like Clinton on a Intern if it looks bad for Bush. AND DON'T Let up till that SOB that did the Shooting IS charged and Tried for Attempted Murder!

92 posted on 03/15/2002 5:14:19 PM PST by Area51
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To: Teacher317
I didn't read an article which stated that the feebs neglected to get medical attention for the victim for that long. This is the second time i've seen that referred to in a response, though. If that's true, it makes my blood boil at everyone involved, including the AA county deputies who came to the scene.

That's as bad as anything I've heard about this case so far.

94 posted on 03/15/2002 5:26:13 PM PST by Twodees
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To: Twodees
Twodees, it was in the first articles when the story first broke. I read it. I believe that it has been erased from subsequent stories.

The girl's father made the allegation, They left the man lying handcuffed for 40 minutes before allowing medical attention.

Other posters reported that the news film had pictures of the agents celebrating and joking with each other.

97 posted on 03/15/2002 5:37:35 PM PST by sport
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To: Harrison Bergeron
This makes me think, though. The "serious juice" behind his investigation could very well just be his own personal integrity and the trademark courage of an innocent man. Someone who was in that job for 20 years and never fell into corruption or dishonesty might just be offended enough at what he would see as crooks in his old bureau to speak angrily to a reporter about it.

The man definitely sounds like an honest man who is deeply offended by the behavior of the agents who spoke to him.

98 posted on 03/15/2002 5:39:54 PM PST by Twodees
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To: Mulder
BTTT
99 posted on 03/15/2002 5:43:21 PM PST by griffin
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