posted on 03/15/2002 6:22:07 AM PST
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posted on 03/15/2002 6:22:42 AM PST
As opposed to what, a dirty shoot?
posted on 03/15/2002 6:25:04 AM PST
To: bang_list; Travis McGee; Darth Sidious;nunya bidness;coloradan;wardaddy;Squantos;harpseal
The cover-up continues.
I wounder if President Bush is "madder than heck" about this, like he was when one of his Royal Guards was kicked a commercial airliner?
posted on 03/15/2002 6:25:23 AM PST
To: donut watch
"You're either for us or you're against us."
"Don't worry about the FBI. Stay focused on your obligation to Anne Arundel County and you won't go wrong.'"
posted on 03/15/2002 6:28:45 AM PST
"They say the office opinion on this case is, 'It's a good shooting,'" Hodgson told The Sun yesterday. "I said, 'Fine. If that's the case, the facts are going to come out and show that.'"
"Good shooting". Yeah, right up there with Randy Weaver's wife being shot in the head while holding her baby. And let's not forget about all the people who were gassed, shot, and run over by tanks at Waco. Apparently, a "good shooting" is when they get away with murdering innocent people. Oh, that's right, this kid isn't dead. I guess those other incidents were REALLY "good shootings". Here they just maimed an innocent person for life..
Perhaps they meant a "cleansed" shooting, where everyone* involved comes out of it sparkling clean.
*Everyone except for the poor lad who was shot. I'm sure the FBI rues the fact the lad survived this blast to the face.
Now that we've seen the picture of the victim, where's the picture of the trigger happy agent?
Perhaps he's a member of the "shadow government's" "shadow law enforcement" division.
posted on 03/15/2002 6:43:00 AM PST
... (the victim's lawyer) was told by one of the agents: "There's no middle ground in this thing. You're either with us or against us."
No "middle-ground", eh, Agent? Circle the wagons?
Guess what, Agent.
We're law-abiding citizens here, and we're against you!
posted on 03/15/2002 6:43:32 AM PST
How in the world could an innocent person being shot EVER be considered a clean shoot?
When will GW or Congress order a revamp of the FBI?
Since the days of clinton, the FBI has been out of control.
Reposting my comment from this
For review purposes, let's go over the list of crimes, mistakes, poor condict, and hubris in this small event. I know I'm being "reckless" in doing so, but I still think it's important.
- The FBI "postively identifies" a passenger in a moving vehicle from a moving vehicle. (They are so sure of this that they approach the vehicle with assault weapons drawn.) They were wrong. A simple mistake that can happen at any time to anyone. No problems... until they drew their guns.
- The ... agent has his finger ON THE TRIGGER before he is ready to shoot. (Unless they want to admit that they were approaching with the intent to fire.)
- The ... agent points his weapon at something he does not intend to shoot. (again, giving them the benefit of the doubt. I'm TRYING to be kind, here!)
- The agent could not have seen a weapon, but fires his own anyway. Most local police are better trained than this. A competent LEO recognizes the possibility of seat belts or other innocent items that a citizen might be reaching for. If accompanied by other officers, as the FBI agent was, they yell "gun!" first, then draw, then decide whether to shoot first, or wait for a moment. (This is from an officer, not my exerience with the show "Cops")
- Upon the discharge of the assault weapon at point blank range into the face of an unarmed anderage citizen, they refuse him medical attention for 40-60 minutes. [T]his is a 'bad thing'. A 10-second search would have verified that safety and security of the medical personnel, LEO's, and public were not at stake, and could clear the medics.
- The FBI, upon discovering that the unarmed citizen they have 'identified', shot without provocation, and refused medical attention is NOT ACTUALLY the robbery suspect, then allow the medics through. This indicates that they intentionally refuse medical care to suspects... but thankfully not innocent civilians. Again, this is a 'bad thing'.
- The FBI refuses to disclose any information, even though it is obvious that this will not interfere with the robbery investigation. They apparently feel that the public isn't worthy of knowing what they have done until they can put a positive spin on it, cover up any possible evidence, and prevent any 'unfortunate' testimony. (The episodes where they repeatedly changed their story were actually noticed! Shocking!)
- This hasn't happened YET, of course, but it's an easy prediction to make: The yet-to-be-named agent will be reprimanded in a news conference, temporarily reassigned, and will suffer no further consequences. This is standard FBI procedure, if not policy. It is also the standard that virtually every federal agency (as well as Congress) clings to desperately.
Those who are properly trained in the use of firearms do not rest their finger on the trigger, nor do they allow the barrel to point in any direction that might be unsafe. Those who refuse treatment suspects (and some reports mention gloating about it) deserve to lose their job entirely.
The three major points here:
1. The laws of the land should apply to all citizens equally. If any of us had mishandled a firearm during a gunshow or at home (or any acceptable reason to have a weapon drawn, just like when a pursued perp has shown a weapon)... and someone got shot in the face... then we would be in jail, facing fines, and would certainly be fired if handling of the firearm was a part of our job (like a salesman or instructor).
2. The FBI needs to stop covering their agents' crimes. They serve the public. The FBI should be open and honest when mistakes happen, and should demote, prosecute and fire agents when merited.
3. The FBI needs to ensure that those who need medical attention get it as soon as possible, whether they are suspects or not. The teacher at Columbine died and the kid in this story could have died because they are not willing to perform the same tasks that local officers and firemen do every single day: go into an area to try to save a life, even if an element of risk exists. (I'll refrain from using the WTC as the basis of comparison, again to be as accomodating as possible in my arguments.)
Rather than serve the public with truth, honor, and self-improvement, the federal agencies (as well as Congress) prefer to lie, obfuscate, 'CYA', and show their disdain for the opinions and welfare of the public. The icing on the cake: the annual demand for more of our hard-earned dollars so they can 'do more'. Boys, we ain't gonna put up with it much longer.
I would hope that Bush would be "furious" about this sad affair, however, I doubt it is of any concern to him. I have seen nor heard of anything from Ashcroft either. Now is the time to charge the man with manslaughter, let the chips fall where they may. Of course this will never happen.
posted on 03/15/2002 7:35:02 AM PST
Federal officers, failing to use felony stop proceedures utilized by most all law-enforcement, shot an unarmed, innocent, eagle scout in the face at point blank range with an assault weapon, and argue that this was a 'clean shoot' and reply to investigations into the matter with "There's no middle ground in this thing. You're either with us or against us."
What country is this?
And if this is representative of the mindset of FLEAs, they had damn well better be ready for the 'Unintended Consequences' ...
posted on 03/15/2002 8:15:01 AM PST
"There's no middle ground in this thing. You're either with us or against us."
Well, that's fair enough
Just hope all the FBI supporters out there understand who made this rule
I know EXACTLY where I stand and this arrogant over-armed a$$hole is not on my side of the fence.
posted on 03/15/2002 8:15:19 AM PST
Where are you John Ashcroft?!?!?! Another FBI murder of an innocent citizen has now blossomed into a coverup with OTHER FBI agents openly intimidating investigators. Where are you, you God fearing man? Maybe you should write another nice little song about eagles and patriots and teach the FBI to sing it.
posted on 03/15/2002 9:57:31 AM PST
****Hodgson said that Wichner warned him that he would "end up looking pretty silly" once the shooting was ruled justified. In the call from Ellis, Hodgson said, he was told that he would be blocked from social interaction with his former FBI colleagues and friends if he worked on this case. Hodgson said it was Ellis who warned, "There's no middle ground on this thing. You're either with us or against us." ****
So it's the FBI against half the American people is that it agent Hodgson? It'd be more than half if they ever actually knew how you all murdered this kid and danced around his innocent bleeding body. You phucking scum! You traitor! You and those like you in the FBI are nothing but gubmint goons. Jack booted thugs. You are the dogs of Animal Farm and may God damn you to eternal hell. (Unless you repent of course. Fat chance.)
posted on 03/15/2002 10:14:21 AM PST
Dudley F.B. "Butch" Hodgson...
I think this is the same FBI agent, "Butch" that was in our Moto Guzzi Club - used to ride with him.
Must suck to defend the indefensible.
posted on 03/15/2002 10:19:52 AM PST
by Wm Bach
If the victim had not been CAUCASIAN, either heads would have rolled or there probably would have been an all out riot. If people riot in defense of fleeing criminals, a fortiori in defense of an eagle scout.
posted on 03/15/2002 10:55:45 AM PST
I am sure the FBI opposes a inquiry to the shooting. The jack booted thugs do not want the possibility of being charged with murder.
posted on 03/15/2002 10:58:28 AM PST
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