Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

The Scout, the suspect and the SWAT team Shooting:
Baltimore Sun ^ | 18 March 2002 | Gail Gibson, Michael James and Laura Barnhardt

Posted on 03/18/2002 3:06:32 AM PST by Lloyd227

Edited on 09/03/2002 4:50:07 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

On March 1, FBI agents had a clear plan to catch a man wanted in a bank robbery. What unfolded was a remarkable series of mix-ups with a near-fatal outcome.

The order from an FBI commander to a SWAT team waiting outside a Glen Burnie 7-Eleven was simple and direct.

"Follow the red car."

To FBI Special Agent Christopher Braga, it signaled that the man inside the car, the one wearing the white baseball cap, was the bank robbery suspect agents had been tracking. Braga, with other members of the elite FBI team, moved in to make the arrest.


(Excerpt) Read more at baltimoresun.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: copernicus5; donutwatch; enforcement; fbi; government; swat
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 201-220221-240241-260 ... 281-290 next last
To: OTA
"I'm certain that Braga isn't a trained killer with a dearth of targets"

and how are you so certain? Is Mr. Braga personally known to you? Did he sit at your kitchen table and pour his heart out about how horribly tragic this "accident" was and how sorry he is for the destruction and misery his incompetence has caused?

For some reason I doubt it.

Mr. Braga is not personally known to me either, so I cannot say with 100% certainty that the man did NOT express sincere sorrow and apologize for what happened. I only know that this story disappeared from the news so fast that there obviously were no charges filed and certainly no trial. Given the evidence, there should at least have been a charge of negligence.

Given the history of the FBI and the ATF, I feel completely justified in my opinion that Mr. Braga is an asshole and a cold blooded, jack booted thug until evidence is offered to prove otherwise. Even worse, the organization that protects officers of this caliber from prosecution is no better than the gangs on the streets which your friends try to apprehend. These are nothing but gang wars and the FBI / ATF are simply two more gangs of criminals with the power of the Federal Government behind them.

When they clean up their own mess and begin really respecting the rights of American citizens, then I'll reconsider. Until then, I'd rather associate with the more honest variety of criminal.

221 posted on 01/04/2003 1:07:05 AM PST by Lloyd227
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 215 | View Replies]

To: OTA
Given the fact that among those innocent civilians who have been killed by the BATF was a gentleman in Towson MD who the ATF raided on suspicion of having an infernal device was a totaly law abiding citizen who happened to be a black posder enthusiast and who had one of those paper weights freely sold that has a Dummy grenade on a piece of polished wood with a label Complaint Department please take a number and a number 1 on the pin, holding up the Baltimore office of BATF is not the best example for citing their professionalism. There are a very large number of cases of the BATF actively hunting down highly technical violations of the law somew of which may not even be violations of the law. The above have been well documented and a search of the web will provide many examples.

This is not meant to imply that there are no BATF agents who are good and honorable merely to state that it has yet to be shown they are more than a relatively insigificant minority of the BATF personnel.

222 posted on 01/04/2003 8:34:40 PM PST by harpseal
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 215 | View Replies]

To: dorben
Please look at McGee's post on this subject and read the following line:

"I was in Navy Special Warfare, and I am very familiar with the "pray for war" mentality."
223 posted on 01/25/2003 1:04:44 PM PST by OTA
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 220 | View Replies]

To: Lloyd227
Yes, as a matter of fact I had the good fortune to work with Special Agent Braga during the sniper investigation in Montgomery County, MD in October. I am employed as a law enforcement officer in the State of Maryland. SA Braga worked quite tirelessly for a three week period of 14-20 hour days, and eventually co affied a number of federal arrest and search warrnts that brought these two sociopaths in.
224 posted on 01/25/2003 1:09:42 PM PST by OTA
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 221 | View Replies]

To: harpseal
"Given the fact...." What facts have you given here? You state that the BATF killed someone in Towson, MD? Rumor and innuendo is all your post supports. Please sir, an approximate date and perhaps a victims name suffice as facts.....you give neither. My advice to you is the same as that given to Mr. McGee: "Do your research".
225 posted on 01/25/2003 1:14:20 PM PST by OTA
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 222 | View Replies]

To: Lloyd227
I found this after leaving my last post to you:

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/jamuhammadfed1.html
226 posted on 01/25/2003 1:31:47 PM PST by OTA
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 221 | View Replies]

To: OTA
Interesting. Thanks OTA.

However, Mr. Braga's tireless efforts in the hunt for the beltway sniper do not absolve the man of his acts that other day when an innocent young man was shot in the face during a badly bungled attempt at a felony stop.

I'm sure that every available LEO within a hundred miles "worked tirelessly for 14-16 hours a day" during that time period when the area was so terrorized by these random snipings.

In the end, I see nothing in the affidavit which indicates Mr. Braga should be awarded superhero status or that he shouldn't be held to task for his incompetence in that previous incident.

One more time, until you guys start cleaning up your own ranks, do not expect much respect from this side of the tracks.

227 posted on 01/25/2003 8:34:15 PM PST by Lloyd227
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 226 | View Replies]

To: OTA
Please note I notice you more . Good luck .
228 posted on 01/25/2003 8:36:08 PM PST by Ben Bolt
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 223 | View Replies]

To: OTA
and an interesting piece in the news today..... another LEO who believes his status associated with "the sniper" case makes him special.

http://www.accessatlanta.com/ajc/news/0103/26moose.html

Note the stretches with reality being taken to "make an exception" for Mr. Moose.

This is just plain sickening.

229 posted on 01/25/2003 8:44:56 PM PST by Lloyd227
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 226 | View Replies]

To: OTA; Travis McGee
"Given the fact...." What facts have you given here? You state that the BATF killed someone in Towson, MD? Rumor and innuendo is all your post supports. Please sir, an approximate date and perhaps a victims name suffice as facts.....you give neither. My advice to you is the same as that given to Mr. McGee: "Do your research".

Look in the early 1990's for the date of the Towson, Md incident regarding BATF. It is not my duty to inform you of the facts of the matter as these are freely available with a little research on your part. If you really wish to find out what went on I suggest you check out the Congressional record and the whole big discussion about Wayne LaPierre refering to the ATF as Jack Booted thugs. These facts were current in the news media at the time. All I can conclude from the tone of your posts is you are too ignorant to check facts yourself before challenging others.

230 posted on 01/26/2003 1:36:36 AM PST by harpseal (Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 225 | View Replies]

To: OTA; harpseal
This thread won't go away: good.

You are correct, I overstated back in reply 48. I should not have said ALL FBI SWAT and HRT, and BATFE SRT members are former members of military specops units.

I should have said MOST of them are. And I stand by that.

Factoid: 2/3s of the original FBI HRT selectees were SEALs. Out of some 100+ who tried out, about 20 of the 30 (my memory is old but close on numbers) whe passed and were selected were all 20 of the former SEALs who tried out.

But I am sure there are some trigger happy "pray for war" and "shoot the kid in the face" gung ho nutjobs who come straight to their JBT calling from civilian life.

It's just that more of them take the military route on their way in.

Like "shoot the kids in the face" Braga.

231 posted on 01/26/2003 8:09:24 AM PST by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 214 | View Replies]

To: OTA
As a law enforcement officer in the state of Maryland then you should be even more incensed at agent Braga's shooting of the boy scout and the incompetence shown in that stop. what happened to normal felony stop procedure in that case. The boy was unarmed. Felony stop procedure was not followed in stopping the car. The agents approached and surrounded the car instaed of order the two subjects out of the car. The agent shot the young man in the face with a .223 carbine. What we have here is negligence resulting in a potentially but thankfully not fatal wound of an innocent person.

That sure sounds like a prima facia case of reckless endazngerment to me. further since agent Braga is obviously not either out of the area or not in a position where he no longer interacts with the public and from your implications not absolutely consumed by guilt for the injuries caused to this young man I would suggest that you might do well to reconsider your own view of the job.

Do you enforce all of Maryland's gun laws? Do you have any problem with doing so? Would you be willing to raid the house of an otherwise law abiding citizen to confiscate an "illegal handgun?"

When a law enforcement officer takes his or her oath they still swear to preserve protect and defend the Constitution of the United States od America do they not? How do you resolve the clear intent of the Second Ammendment preserving the Right to keep and bear arms with some of the laws of the state of Maryland that you are enforcing. Do you think about this?Do you participate in some of the gun owner harassment tactics the Maryland State Police have engaged in in the past? Do you think that ther state of Maryland has a right to have all citizens who are not in law enforcement disarmed? Does the State of Maryland have the right to make it a crime to own an AR-15? Would you arrest someone who possed an AR-15 merely for possessing it. Stipulated facts are as follows no other warrants, no criminal record but when asked did not turn it over for ballistic tests?

I am far more appalled that you do not know about the history of the Baltimore county raid since you are a law enforcement officer in the state of Maryland. As such you have a responsibility to know about past foul ups by law enforcement so you learn from the mistakes. Further, you should recognize that just because a shooting was ruled within policy and the officer not prosecuted it does not mean that it was a good operation.

Now you may think both I and Travis McGee are anti-police and absolutely nothing could be further from the truth. I think the best description would be very much pro-LEO but against those officers who think their job is crack down on trhe citizens. Being on the job requires a very great deal of a person and some people are not up to it.

232 posted on 01/26/2003 8:23:52 AM PST by harpseal (Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 224 | View Replies]

To: harpseal
Let's put this argument back into perspective, at least from my point of view. I am not defending SA Braga's actions during the car stop. That was a matter for the Anne Arundel County State's Attorney to either pursue or not. Just because criminal action was not taken against SA Braga dosen't mean that there was not any wrongdoing on his part. Mr. Shultz still has the option of suing Braga, the FBI and /or the Federal Government for the FBI's actions that night. If the negligence is there a jury will find it so and the truth will out. Simply because he continues to be able to function as a competent investigator dosen't mean he has not been affected or is not remorseful about the incident.

As far as enforcement of Maryland's gun laws are concerned, if they are on the books I do enforce them as I have taken an oath to do so. I do not make the laws in Maryland but again, I work with what is given to me. I have seized handguns from prohibited persons before...otherwise "law abiding" as you put it. (I suppose in your book everyone......including convicted felons, can be considered law abiding if you remove them from their past or present behavior). Engaging in "selective enforcement" is not in the oath I took. I have in the past, and will continue to do so in the future, complain/contact/write my elected representitives when I disagree about passed or pending legislation. If you don't like what's there make an effort to change it.

To answer your question, no, I have not "raided" the home of an illegal gun owner unless their past history (i.e. convictions for assault, attempted murder) warrant entry into a home with the use of force. I have in the past, knocked at the persons door, explained the situation to them, and given them the option of placing the firearm in the custody of a non-prohibited person, or selling it to a liscensed dealer. I am sure that there have been instances in the past where LEO's have used excessive force in these situations....but your painting of the ATF/FBI/MSP or any other LEO's with a broad brush is unwarranted and unjustified.

Please return to my original question to you. You again speak of a raid where the ATF killed someone in Towson. Please provide SOME factual basis for your claim....a name....a date....a decade even. It is beginng to sound like an urban legend to me. Good for you and those of your ilk here....more faceless grist for the rumor mill.

I don't believe that you are anti-LEO harpseal, I simply think that you buy into the whole "black Helicopter / UN / ATF / FBI / gun grabbing paranoia" that affects so many who post here. As for Mr. McGee I think he simply is here to sell a book.

How many arrests and /or enforcement operations has the ATF / MSP / FBI conducted in the past ten years? My guess would be approximately 10,000 per year. So in over 100,000 enfocement operations....statisticly there are going to be mistakes. I again do not wish to downplay the unfortunate shooting of Mr. Shultz. We are all human harpseal, prone to mistakes and bad judgement, and LEO's are no less so.

233 posted on 01/26/2003 10:17:52 AM PST by OTA
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 232 | View Replies]

To: Lloyd227
I did not state or imply that his work on the sniper case "absolved" SA Braga from his actions that night. His culpability is a matter for a jury to decide as I believe Mr. Shultz is proceeding aginst him and the FBI with a civil suit.

I'm not losing any sleep over the gaining of your respect or lack of it.
234 posted on 01/26/2003 10:22:55 AM PST by OTA
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 227 | View Replies]

To: harpseal
All I can conclude from the tone of your remarks is that you enjoy spreading rumor and innuendo. You were the one who broached the subject, not me. Do you research before you bring a topic to the fore. Otherwise you simply appear ignorant.
235 posted on 01/26/2003 10:40:06 AM PST by OTA
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 230 | View Replies]

To: OTA
I have given some information regarding the Baltimore county raid by the BATF. If you are willing to research it here on Free Republic I know many references can be found. It is a long slow process that I am unwilling to do at the moment. I gave you some other refernences concerning abuse most especially by the BATF.

You state you do not engage in selective enforcement. Yet I will posit that the failure to prosecute Agent Braga or by the FBI to seriously discipline him is a form of very selective non-enforcement based upon the admitted facts of the case and statements made by some very reliable witnesses including the paramedics responding and the time difference in contacting the paramedics.

As far as enforcement of Maryland's gun laws are concerned, if they are on the books I do enforce them as I have taken an oath to do so. I do not make the laws in Maryland but again, I work with what is given to me.

This is an interesting statement which could have been taken verbatim albiet in German from some of the war crimes trials in WWII. I do not support the arming of those convicted of felonies or those who are were deprived of their rights due to due process of law at the time of their conviction. I have a very real problem with laws passed after the fact of conviction which remove a person's civil rights. An example would be a person who pled guilty to some misdemeanor ten, twenty, or thrity years ago which carried no such suspension of civil rights at the time and now is retroactively deprived of civil rights.

I do apologise about questioning the oath you took as when I took it in the military and when I took it other times it always included the phrasing about the Constitution. Since you are merely sworn to uphold the legislative acts of the state of Maryland not the full law of the land I guess that a law making being a certain race, ethnicity, or creed a crime would be actively enforced by you based upon your statement. To give you a reference and get you thinking I note that Maryland in the past had segrated water fountains. Would you have arrested a black person for drinking from a whites only water fountain? I will give you the benefit of the doubt and presume no.

Would you arrest someone for stating an opinion critical of the Governor or legislature of the state of Maryland if such a law were on the books? If Maryland passed a law making a whole class of firearms illegal to possess would you enforce that law? How about if one of the people you were raiding were a former LEO who had done nothing except fail to turn in such a weapon that he had owned legally prior to enacting such a law.

The DC sniper case brought a whole lot of issues to the fore and there have been a number of problems with the FBI over the past years. among those issues are the FBI letting a person serve much jail time for a murder they knew he did not commit. I would suggest that you check the donut watch list for further information on police issues.

Regarding the BATF, the number of abuses which they have been engaged in over the years is too high to list in a simple response. Their behavior has been over the years extremely unprofessional and some of the FBI agents I know routinely refer to them as "F troop."

I really do not have the time today to get you a specific reference to the ATF raid in Towson. I can suggest that in a work of fiction it is one of the documentable facts in the book Unintended Consequences available at your local library. By getting the date and names there one can then virify the actual date and place of the incident by going to contemporaneous reports from newspaper archives. I am relying on memory and can not today get more specific in references.

These are not always easy questions and I do not claim to have all the answers but you response to me on this thread.

One point you should be aware of Travis McGee was on this forum long before his book was even the germ of an idea in his mind. Now as to the Black helicopter crowd bit. I live in CT in the test flight pattern of the Sikorsky factory. There certainly are "black helicopters" it is the way a person would normally see the infra red camoflage coating amny gornment helicopters are given. Nothing sinister there per se.

As to the simple fact that there are some politicians who would totally subvert the US Constitution, anyone who paid attention to what happens in Congress and the legislature of many East Coast states can clearly see that is a fact.

I am admittedly going to some extremes in my response because I am also a student of history and a nation does not go to an extremis overnight. Nazi Germany went from being the Weimar Republic with a series of incremental laws between 1932 and Crystal Night in 1938. Adolf Hitler came to power by Constitution means and changed the laws to stay in power. Many German police officers joined the Gestapo and enforced some of the most brutal laws because they were only following orders and they did not make the laws.

My concern is clearly that the US Constituition be enforced particularly against corrupt politicians. I do not mean to paint with a broad brush I mean to keep my comments focused on the issues.

236 posted on 01/26/2003 11:11:08 AM PST by harpseal (Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 233 | View Replies]

To: OTA
Discussing what is common knowledge about existing cases is not speading rumor an inuuendo. I have given you some specifics where you can research the matter. You are a law enforcement officer and when I speak from memory of incidents reported in the past I do not need to have the research at hand when such has been discussed freely over the past years here on Free Republic.

You claim to be a LEO in MD. It is incumbent on you to know the history of major problems LEO's in MD have encountered over the past ten or twenty years.

237 posted on 01/26/2003 11:14:57 AM PST by harpseal (Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 235 | View Replies]

To: OTA
I have to agree with harpseal on this one.
"...the failure to prosecute Agent Braga or by the FBI to seriously discipline him is a form of very selective non-enforcement... "

This very selective non-enforcement is what is giving law enforcement agencies a bad reputation. It's bad enough that a few egotistical, arrogant and overzealous wannabes make their way into the ranks of law enforcement, it's worse when the trend toward militarizing domestic law enforcement seems to have moved into high gear, but it begins to reach intolerable when the organizations sworn to serve and protect seem to believe that it's only their fellow brothers that they are beholden to.

I fully understand that this is tough work and that there are a lot of very dangerous people out there to apprehend.
I fully understand that we desperatly need well trained officers who are not afraid to put their life on the line to keep the wheels of society from being over-run by the well armed sociopaths on the street. The need for well trained and well armed law enforcement does not, however, negate the need for those officers to also be ethical to the highest order, respectful of the law (ALL laws, not just those they choose to respect), and to remember who it really is they are sworn to protect and to serve.

The very fact that Agent Braga is still armed and on the beat is prima facie evidence that the F.B.I. considers this incident just another,.... well how did you phrase it? oh yeah, "...an unfortunate tragic event". Agent Braga should be facing criminal charges. His badge and his weapon should be locked away until a jury has cleared him of those criminal charges.

The civil case that you seem to think will bring justice will merely end in the payment of a large sum of money from our tax dollars to this victim of Mr. Braga's incompetence. A civil case will not bring justice or do anything to prevent this from happening again.

238 posted on 01/26/2003 12:29:23 PM PST by Lloyd227
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 234 | View Replies]

To: OTA
I will make this part of my comunication in response to your private reply to me public. Over the next two weeks I will provide some specific documentation for my statement of fact. That documentation will be public provided I have your word to review such documentation with an open mind about your attitudes.
239 posted on 01/26/2003 12:31:10 PM PST by harpseal (Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 235 | View Replies]

To: harpseal
Harpseal, please could you include me on your ping list?

Cheers,
Lloyd

240 posted on 01/26/2003 12:35:19 PM PST by Lloyd227
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 239 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 201-220221-240241-260 ... 281-290 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson