The Scout, the suspect and the SWAT team Shooting:

Baltimore Sun ^ | 18 March 2002 | Gail Gibson, Michael James and Laura Barnhardt

[Lloyd227]

On March 1, FBI agents had a clear plan to catch a man wanted in a bank robbery. What unfolded was a remarkable series of mix-ups with a near-fatal outcome.

The order from an FBI commander to a SWAT team waiting outside a Glen Burnie 7-Eleven was simple and direct.

"Follow the red car."

To FBI Special Agent Christopher Braga, it signaled that the man inside the car, the one wearing the white baseball cap, was the bank robbery suspect agents had been tracking. Braga, with other members of the elite FBI team, moved in to make the arrest.

[OTA]

Very well. My point to you on the alleged Towson killing by ATF is this......you would do well to research your facts before making such a claim. Just because this topic....or even perhaps this specific incident has simply been discussed here before does not make it fact. If I were to post a statement saying "the earth is flat" I had better be able to back it up with facts or I will simply be dismissed as making claims without basis a la "The National Enqiurer".

I have a very open mind, I'm ready to believe the facts if they are presented. That's what I do for a living.

[OTA]

In response to your statement:

"Agent Braga should be facing criminal charges. His badge and his weapon should be locked away until a jury has cleared him of those criminal charges".

I believe that an Anne Arundel County Grand Jury refused to indict Agent Braga. If they refuse to indict there is no probable cause present to charge him. Do you really believe that it's all one big conspiracy? (Black helicopters beating overhead) Is it that the states attorney for AA county, the members of the grand jury all secretly conspired to let Braga walk? What would a group of citizens, drawn from the voter registration rolls have to gain by not indicting him? Did you pause to think perhaps that there was not enough probable cause to charge SA Braga? No indictment means no arrest....no arrest means no trial....no trial means no jury. Your beef should be with the AA County States Attorney.

Hey I know it may not soothe your conspiratorial senses but no indictment......no crime. And remember that bad judgement may not be right, but it is not always a crime. Welcome to the United States. If you want to view Chris Braga as some sort of loose cannon with an itchy trigger finger go ahead. Your opinion really doesn't matter. You know the old saying about opinions.

[OTA]

??

[Lloyd227]

Well... the refusal of a Grand Jury to indict is news to me.

If this actually happened and it came after the prosecutor made a legitimate attempt to present the evidence, then I'm satisfied... well ok, maybe "satisfied" is not the right word, but I'll accept the rule of law.

As I stated at Post 207, all I was looking for was the follow up and the results from any investigation of what certainly appeared to be the acts of a grossly bungled felony stop conducted by an agent of the FBI who has been previously associated with 'tragic' shootings of unarmed suspects.

If there is news to post, then please pass that news along. If this case was presented to a grand jury and that grand jury refused to indict, then that is certainly news and I would certainly apologize for the tone of my attackss.

However, I've gone back through the postings since #207 and I see no mention, by you or anyone else until now, of a grand jury having heard the evidence in this case. Until I know that this has happened, I presume that the case was disposed of the same way 99% of the other cases against LEOs are; an internal investigation yielded no particular reason to proceed and a prosecutor who simply accepted that internal investigation at face value.

So, clear the air. Was there a grand jury which heard the evidence and refused to indict Mr. Braga? Please post your sources.

and thanks,
Lloyd

[Lloyd227]

I've ran some searches, since you mentioned a grand jury, but all I found was this:

Grand jury to decide FBI agent indictment  6/18/02 The Capital, Annapolis: Beyond the reach of the law - "Agent Braga, however, is not expected to testify. He declined to talk to county detectives who investigated the shooting."

Did this grand jury ever actually sit and hear the evidence?

Absent a legitimate and independent review of the evidence by a grand jury, then your statement that "...no indictment......no crime" is not really very meaningful.

As a minimum, a common citizen in similar circumstances would have been charged with felony negligent discharge of a firearm.

So where is the story about a grand jury? When did this happen and who was the prosecutor who presented the bill of indictment?

[OTA]

I stated that I work with what is given me. I did not state that I mindlessly follow them without regard to the rights of those that I may or may not arrest. 99.9% (and yes I speak from experience) the public I come in contact with are treated with the respect they deserve. It is only when....at least in my case....things get out of hand that they are treated with any sort of force on my part.

As for the myriad of "what if's" you contine to pose, I really couldn't tell you the answer. I doubt if any of those proposals would make it into law.

[harpseal]

Most assuredly.

[Lloyd227]

Was there a grand jury which heard the evidence and refused to indict Mr. Braga?

Inquiring minds are sincerely interested.

Thanks,
Lloyd

[harpseal]

As for the myriad of "what if's" you contine to pose, I really couldn't tell you the answer. I doubt if any of those proposals would make it into law.

For your information the following is true:

An example would be a person who pled guilty to some misdemeanor ten, twenty, or thrity years ago which carried no such suspension of civil rights at the time and now is retroactively deprived of civil rights.

This is current law in Maryland where people convicted of simple assault twenty or thirty years ago have been targeted by law enforcement there because they owned firearms. Also the Lautenberg Ammendment to the violence against women act imposes just this sort of burden that is a loss of civil rights following a misdemeanor conviction many years ago. So these are not hypothetical arguments most especially in Maryland where crimes that were misdemeanors years ago now have enhanced sentences that cause them to be treated as felonies thus a personsubsequently loses the right to self defense because some politician has decided something that is clearly after the fact.

Now I will bring up the issue of undocumented people that you may come in contact with. That is illegal aliens. Do you always arrest these people for the violation of federal criminal law they have committed (note it is a federal felony). If some politician says not to aresst them do you arrest him for aiding and abetting illegal imigration? If you say it is not your job to enforce federal law would you fail to arrest someone passing multiple counterfeit twenty dollar bills?

In short the issues I posed to you were all taken from the law and they all made it into legislation. Further as to the laws about arresting people for what they write or say I suggest you check out the hate crimes laws in your state.

[harpseal]

see my post above. I will probably get some time to post the actual links later this week

[OTA]

Here is the first paragraph of an article from the Baltimore SUN. The full text is available in their archives here:

http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we/Archives?p_product=BS&p_theme=bs&p_action=search&p_maxdocs=200&p_field_label-0=Section&s_dispstring=allfields(Braga)%20AND%20section(*)%20AND%20date(2002)&p_field_date-0=YMD_date&p_params_date-0=date:B,E&p_text_date-0=2002&p_field_advanced-0=&p_text_advanced-0=(%22Braga%22)&p_perpage=10&p_sort=YMD_date:D&xcal_useweights=no

As I did not wish to subscribe to their service I am unable to provide you with the prosecutors name.

No indictment of FBI agent in shooting
Pasadena man mistaken for bank-robbery suspect
'Serious breakdowns' revealed
Anne Arundel grand jury deliberates 20 minutes

Published on: July 3, 2002
Edition: FINAL
Section: TELEGRAPH
Page: 1A
Byline: SUN STAFF

Andrea F. Siegel and Laura Barnhardt

An Anne Arundel County grand jury decided yesterday not to indict an FBI agent who mistook an unarmed Pasadena man for a suspected bank robber and shot him in the face.The grand jury deliberated 20 minutes before declining to indict Special Agent Christopher Braga on charges of first-degree assault, second-degree assault or reckless endangerment in the shooting, county prosecutors said.Braga shot Joseph C. Schultz, 20, in the face with an M-4 rifle March 1. Schultz was riding in a car

Click here for the complete text of article 10

[OTA]

Here is the first paragraph of another article on the second page, stating that the probe into the shooting included testimony from Mr. Schultz:

Probe of FBI shooting begins
Grand jury hears from man wounded when mistaken for bank robber

Published on: June 26, 2002
Edition: ARUNDEL
Section: LOCAL
Page: 1B
Byline: SUN STAFF

Andrea F. Siegel

A grand jury investigating an FBI agent's mistaken shooting of an unarmed Pasadena man in March began taking testimony yesterday, with the wounded 20-year-old as one of the first witnesses.The Anne Arundel County grand jury is expected to hear many more witnesses as it considers whether to indict FBI Special Agent Christopher Braga for shooting Joseph Charles Schultz on March 1 as Schultz and his girlfriend returned from a trip to a mall.Braga mistook Schultz for a bank robbery

And another on the third page:

Grand jury to get FBI case
Panel to weigh indictment in mistaken shooting
Victim, girlfriend summoned
Agent who shot man, 20, not expected to testify

Published on: June 18, 2002
Edition: FINAL
Section: LOCAL
Page: 1B
Byline: SUN STAFF

Laura Barnhardt and Andrea F. Siegel

Anne Arundel County's prosecutor will ask a grand jury next week to decide whether an FBI agent who mistakenly shot and wounded a Pasadena man in March should be indicted in the case.Instead of determining himself whether the shooting was justified, State's Attorney Frank R. Weathersbee will begin presenting the case to a grand jury Tuesday, authorities confirmed yesterday.By asking for the grand jury to meet, prosecutors avoid some of the controversy that would surround a

Click here for the complete text of article 14

[OTA]

FYI: I have arrested individuals for violations of federal law, and have tesified before both federal grand juries as well as in trial.

Let's adress the "state misdemeanor" question. Let's take a hypothetical. In 1979 you are charged with, and plead guilty to common law assault in Maryland. The maximun penalty is twenty (20) years, even though you may only receive a 1 year sentence even if that one year is probation or time served or thirty days in the county pokey. The (Federal) gun control act of 1968, specificly 18 U.S.C. 922(g)(1) prohibits a person who "has been convicted of a crime punishable by a term of imprisonment exceeding one year". If you can receive a sentence of one year and a day you are a "convicted felon" for purposes of the statute. Although you might not like it, that's the law. Now the question here is this......as an LEO how do you approach this situation? As I told you before I have given the person (providing there is no record of further violent criminal activity)the option of turning the firarm over to a third, non-prohibited person, selling it at a dealer or abandoning it. I dare say The U.S. Attorney's office here in Maryland wouldn't prosecute it anyway.

Now if you are dealing with a person with numerous assault convictions or additional convictions for more serious violent felonies (i.e. attempted murder, murder etc.) I would certainly approach the situation differently.

[OTA]

Additionally yes,I have arrested illegal aliens, a number of whom have been deported.

[Lloyd227]

OTA,
Thank you for the updates and for the links to the article. I apologize for my rant and withdraw my attacks on Mr. Braga. While this situation still seems fishy judging by the newspapers, I was not aware that the evidence had been presented to a Grand Jury and this does put things in a different light.

Best regards,
Lloyd

[nunya bidness]

If you are MD. LEO I have some questions:

Have you been instructed to follow up on leads generated by the Sniper Tip Line?

Are you aware of any ongoing investigation of gunowners being questioned based on Sniper Tip Line calls?

Are FFL yellow papers being collected, copied or the information gathered to investigate or question gunowners?

Is there a joint task force operating with any parameters dealing with so-called "assault rifles" owned by Maryland citizens?

If you go to conduct an interview based on a tip phoned in during the sniper shootings and the respondant tells you to, "Go to hell," will you leave them alone or will you consider it to be PC and report it as such?

[OTA]

I am no longer assigned to the task force. I resumed my "regular"....lol....duties in November.

[OTA]

Lloyd:
My point thoughout my posts rests mainly on the premise that I won't post what I don't know or cannot prove through independent sources. Many of the posts here beginning with Mr. McGee's claim, later recanted, that ALL of the ATF, FBI SWAT / HRT / SRT team members come DIRECTLY from Military Specops groups reeks of unsubstantiation. I know it's not true and he CANNOT document it. Ditto for an alleged ATF fatal shooting in Towson MD. The same internet that provides access to this forum also constitutes the greatest research tool in the world. Everyone should use it to engage in research before putting mouth in gear.

It's Interesting that the title of this thread "The Scout, the Suspect and the SWAT team shooting" is the title of an article on the shooting in the Baltimore Sun, the same newspaper which I linked to with the articles about the Grand Jury investigation! Nobody cared to do the follow up. Listening to both sides of the story legitimizes debate, listening to one side simply legitimizes propaganda.

Best Regards: OTA

[OTA]

Mr. McGee:
Hmmm......I sense backpedaling. Lets map this out:

1.)First you state ALL of the FBI/ATF/SWAT/HRT/SRT members come DIRECTLY from Military Specops.

2.)You then state in another post a "Factoid" that it was approximately 75%. Where is your proof? Do you have any documentation to support your claims? What is a "Factoid"? It is obviously not a fact or you would have called it as such and backed it up with verifiable proof.

3.) By the way you now only mention the FBI. What happened to your claim about the ATF SRT's?

Let me draw a parallel.......I will state, without any proof whatsoever that:

1.)"The Moon is made of cheese"

Now, when challenged I will modify that statement, again without any proof (and based on some foggy personal recollection) that:

2.)"Well the dark side of the moon is made of apprximately 75% cheese" (This may constitute a "Factoid")

3.)I will, of course, fail to mention whatsoever the other side of the moon.

Do you research Mr. McGee.

Regards: OTA

[OTA]

Dig a little deeper. See post 251 or:

http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we/Archives?p_product=BS&p_theme=bs&p_action=search&p_maxdocs=200&p_field_label-0=Section&s_dispstring=allfields(Braga)%20AND%20section(*)%20AND%20date(2002)&p_field_date-0=YMD_date&p_params_date-0=date:B,E&p_text_date-0=2002&p_field_advanced-0=&p_text_advanced-0=(%22Braga%22)&p_perpage=10&p_sort=YMD_date:D&xcal_useweights=no

It wasn't buried anywhere.