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Explorers Unearth Lost Inca Stronghold in Peru
Reuters ^ | Mon Mar 18, 6:12 PM ET | Missy Ryan

Posted on 03/18/2002 9:15:42 PM PST by d4now

LIMA, Peru (Reuters) - In the first major Inca find in four decades, Peruvian and British explorers say they have discovered a hidden city, perched on an Andean hilltop, that may have sheltered stalwarts of South America's legendary empire as they made a last stand against Spanish conquerors.

Located on a narrow ridge around 11,000 feet up in Peru's windswept, southern Andes, the Inca citadel of Corihuayrachina is a mysterious gathering of religious platforms, funeral towers, and food storehouses.

British scholar and guide Peter Frost told a news conference on Monday he first spotted the ruins in the rugged, isolated Vilcabamba region some 300 miles south-east of Lima three years ago.

Frost said the site was the biggest of its kind found since 1964 and could have been occupied by the Inca when they took to the hills after the Spanish conquest. It is about 22 miles southwest of the famous Inca citadel of Machu Picchu.

The Incas once ruled a vast swath of South America stretching from Colombia to Chile, but Spain's Francisco Pizarro and his band of 160 treasure-hunters, using cannons and horses, brought that empire to a bloody end in 1533.

Some Inca, moving with an army of 50,000 to the more remote Vilcabamba area, held out against the invaders for nearly 40 years.

"It's a jigsaw puzzle. What we're finding are more pieces ... to get a better sense of what was happening in that area," said Frost, who has lived for 30 years in the Inca's imperial capital Cusco in southern Peru, gateway to Machu Picchu.

European diseases like measles ravaged the empire, cutting its population from an estimated 32 million people in 1520 to 5 million in 1548.

Frost said he found Corihuayrachina -- eyeing it from afar but not able to actually reach it -- when he was leading a group of tourists through the remote region in 1999.

Funded by the Washington-based National Geographic (news - web sites) Society, Frost was finally able to set foot on the cloud-shrouded site two years later in June, 2001, trekking four days along winding mountain paths with a team of scientists and excavators.

UNTOUCHED BY SCIENCE

"This was an area totally untouched by science," said Peruvian archeologist and expedition co-leader Alfredo Valencia, who along with local workers hacked away at the thick leaves and vines covering squat buildings and murky tombs.

But Frost said the scientists were still in the early stages of puzzling out who inhabited Corihuayrachina, how they lived, and why they chose to live in such an inhospitable place.

"If (the site) was occupied after the Spanish conquest, what will we find? If we find human remains, will they show European diseases?" Frost said.

Like most of the scores of native shrines, tombs and temples across this Andean nation, the explorers said the site had been looted over the years by local grave-robbers and now the graves were only filled with pottery fragments and bones.

But unlike Machu Picchu, discovered in 1911 by American explorer Hiram Bingham, Frost said the recent find was not home to the Inca elite.

Machu Picchu has been named a United Nations (news - web sites) World Heritage site and draws throngs of tourists from across the globe.

Unlike Machu Picchu, only stone foundations some 2-3 feet high remain of the new find's structures, which were originally constructed with adobe or wood.

National Geographic is due to release a television special chronicling the Corihuayrachina discovery (news - web sites) in May.


TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: archaeology; chachapoyas; ggg; godsgravesglyphs; history; incas; machupicchu; peru
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1 posted on 03/18/2002 9:15:42 PM PST by d4now
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To: d4now
Cool.
2 posted on 03/18/2002 9:18:13 PM PST by Travis McGee
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To: d4now
Wonderful! I'll look forward to the telecast.
3 posted on 03/18/2002 9:21:53 PM PST by brat
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To: blam
bump
4 posted on 03/18/2002 9:28:33 PM PST by d4now
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To: brat
Also at nationalgeography.com

City Occupied by Inca Found on Andean Peak in Peru

It gives proper credit to National Geo.

5 posted on 03/18/2002 9:34:36 PM PST by d4now
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To: d4now
Good article. Thanks for the post and bump.
6 posted on 03/18/2002 9:44:46 PM PST by blam
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To: blam
Please see post #5.
7 posted on 03/18/2002 9:50:23 PM PST by d4now
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To: d4now
But Frost said the scientists were still in the early stages of puzzling out ... why they chose to live in such an inhospitable place.

Probably for the reasons people make the same decision today: to partially escape the tender mercies of an obtrusive overbearing central government.

8 posted on 03/18/2002 9:50:45 PM PST by kitchen
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To: d4now
I just heard this on the radio. Fascinating!
9 posted on 03/18/2002 9:52:18 PM PST by scouse
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To: kitchen
to partially escape the tender mercies of an obtrusive overbearing central government.

Good deduction and very well said.

10 posted on 03/18/2002 9:53:19 PM PST by d4now
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To: blam
Should this go on the 3g list?
11 posted on 03/18/2002 9:57:05 PM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach
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To: d4now
http://www.cosmiverse.com/paranormal03180203.html

This page has an interesting fish from Florida

12 posted on 03/18/2002 9:57:52 PM PST by scouse
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To: d4now
Explorers Unearth Lost Inca Stronghold in Peru!!!

And 53 more votes for Al Gore...

13 posted on 03/18/2002 9:58:24 PM PST by The Magical Mischief Tour
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To: d4now
bttt
14 posted on 03/18/2002 9:59:36 PM PST by farmfriend
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To: scouse
Thank you.

It really was a very interesting FISH FROM FLORIDA

15 posted on 03/18/2002 10:08:56 PM PST by d4now
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
what's a 3g list?
16 posted on 03/18/2002 10:10:23 PM PST by d4now
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To: d4now;blam;Gods, Graves, Glyphs;
Seems like it should be on the list!

To find all articles tagged or indexed using above index words

Go here: OFFICIAL BUMP(TOPIC)LIST

and then click the topic to initiate the search! !

17 posted on 03/18/2002 10:22:04 PM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach
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To: d4now
The Incas once ruled a vast swath of South America stretching from Colombia to Chile, but Spain's Francisco Pizarro and his band of 160 treasure-hunters, using cannons and horses, brought that empire to a bloody end in 1533.

Is this accurate? That less than 200 armed Westerners destroyed the Incas?

18 posted on 03/18/2002 10:24:17 PM PST by ikka
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To: scouse
I once read an exstensive record of the wars between the "Conquistadores" and the Inca.
It was written by several Spanish friars who accompanied the soldiers..the detail is astounding.
The Inca soldiers were in disarray from the outset..after their leader was betrayed and murdered.
The Inca had several battlefield successes..mostly when the "Spanish" were not on horseback.
In one instance they trapped a large garrison and set the dwelling on fire..most were killed.
The Spanish recognized the "Supersticious" patterns of the Inca..and exploited it...as leaders fell..the remnants scattered..and wound up in mountain "Redoubts"..like "Vilicabamba".
The last stand was designed to keep the Spanish from ever finding "Machu Picchu"...the Spanish failed at several attempts..but eventually broke inside the main temple area..killing the leader...the Inca nation fell in resistance..as the scattered could not obtain leadership to continue.
The Inca were learning as they went..they eventually learned to not fear the horses..pikes..like something from Englands civil war period were used..and were successful...but in hand to hand fighting..the sword and minor armor prevailed...the Inca were not able to co-ordinate well..in battles..they outnumbered the Spanish 20-40 to 1..yet lost.

There is a reference that the Inca allready forsaw their fall..this came via "Astronomy" and Preist leadership...the Inca fought..but not in a unified mindset..too many believed the Prophecies..by the time of the "Vilicabamba" redoubt..too few remained..to turn the tide.

19 posted on 03/18/2002 10:28:15 PM PST by Light Speed
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To: Light Speed
Wow...thank you for posting.
20 posted on 03/18/2002 10:31:44 PM PST by d4now
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To: ikka
I don't know but post #19 may help.
21 posted on 03/18/2002 10:33:34 PM PST by d4now
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To: d4now
Last year a documentary special aired concerning Inca Astronomical observance.
I was staggered by what was revealed..
On the mountain sides, tracking for dozens of miles...the terraces and rock outcroppings were manipulated to reveal a 3 dimensional map.."Of the Milky way"...they did in 3D..what the Egyptians could not do.
In certain places..sunlight touches certain rock outcroppings...litterly marking each months passage..each solstice...revealing the procession of the "Zodiac" on the mountain sides.
These manipulations are huge...hundreds of feet apart..evident from the ground..and from high elevations... they would climb..and watch the seasons unfold..knowing exactly when to plant..and when to obseve ritual festivals...but in this..and confirmed by the narrator..like the Spanish Friars account..they foresaw..and saw..the end of "Their time"...this is why the Spanish mastered them so quickly..they really believed their time on earth had come to an end...they saw it in the stars.
22 posted on 03/18/2002 10:43:35 PM PST by Light Speed
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To: Light Speed
Last year a documentary special aired concerning Inca Astronomical observance.

I must see it. Any help would be appreciated.

23 posted on 03/18/2002 10:52:54 PM PST by d4now
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
"Should this go on the 3g list?"

Yes. Do it to it! (thanks)

24 posted on 03/18/2002 11:11:43 PM PST by blam
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To: d4now
I did record it..hopefully I did not overwrite it..have nearly 50 Plain VHS...will try to find it ..and if found..will forward the name of the video production and the main individual...hopeing I have not overwritten it..am really bad for.."Oh my God..its a nascar race from Darlington"..and then the inevitable happens.
25 posted on 03/18/2002 11:18:03 PM PST by Light Speed
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To: d4now
Ancient Peruvian City In Dire Peril
26 posted on 03/18/2002 11:34:24 PM PST by blam
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To: Light Speed
Happy searching then - I hope you find it.

Thanks!

27 posted on 03/19/2002 5:38:44 AM PST by d4now
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To: blam
Good article - many thanks for the bump.
28 posted on 03/19/2002 5:39:32 AM PST by d4now
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To: #3fan
bump
29 posted on 03/19/2002 5:49:12 AM PST by gnarledmaw
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To: Light Speed
It's amazing to me that so many ancient cultures which were completely detached from one another all had an intimate understanding of space and time.
30 posted on 03/19/2002 5:58:19 AM PST by DancesWithTrout
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To: DancesWithTrout
"It's amazing to me that so many ancient cultures which were completely detached from one another all had an intimate understanding of space and time."

I don't think they were as 'detached' as we believe they were.

31 posted on 03/19/2002 6:16:04 AM PST by blam
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To: blam
exactly my conclusion. Explaining how, without alarming the tin-foil brigades, is the hard part.
32 posted on 03/19/2002 6:19:18 AM PST by DancesWithTrout
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To: d4now
bump
33 posted on 03/19/2002 6:33:00 AM PST by VOA
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To: gnarledmaw
Thanks for the ping. Most of the great buildings, walls, astronomical structures, and towers that are attributed to the Incas were probably built by a people like the Chachapoya, (a blond-haired, tall race) thousands of years ago.
34 posted on 03/19/2002 11:21:19 AM PST by #3Fan
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To: DancesWithTrout
The North American Indians mapped the constellations....solar house risings..moon phases...kept it simple..they used rock circles..and etched markers on rock outcroppings.

They did this..thousands of years ahead of the Egyptians ...choosing a more "Freindlier version" of passing the knowledge...one may comment..they were more succesfull than the Egyptians..as their languages and stories are still sung and danced to ..to this day...and we are aware that the Egyptian language went nearly extinct..that the message in their labour..has only been discovered..recently.

Critical study reveals man has learned this in seperate hemispheres..independently...some like to credit an advanced culture for spreading the news so to speak..but real archeology..reveals they got it on their own.

35 posted on 03/19/2002 3:45:39 PM PST by Light Speed
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To: Light Speed
Critical study reveals man has learned this in seperate hemispheres..independently...some like to credit an advanced culture for spreading the news so to speak..but real archeology..reveals they got it on their own.

The basic needs of humans never change. What is it worth to you to know exactly when to plow, sow and reap your crop so you may have a successful harvest? 10%, maybe? And from there all the rest flows naturally.

a. cricket

36 posted on 03/19/2002 3:55:23 PM PST by another cricket
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To: Light Speed;d4now;DancesWithTrout;#3fan
"Critical study reveals man has learned this in seperate hemispheres..independently...some like to credit an advanced culture for spreading the news so to speak..but real archeology..reveals they got it on their own."

I read that some time after the destruction of Carthage that it was reported that Plutarch spoke that he had read (from 'writings' in the ruins) that the Carthagenians(sp) had traded with nations across the Atlantic. Then we have the 'cocaine mummies' and of course, Solon's tales of Atlantis, as related to him by the Egyptian high priests, etc. I believe there was ancient contact between Asia, Europe, the Americas and Africa. ...and that this contact was broken numerous times (and memory of this contact was forgotten) due to worldwide catastrophies, famine and/or plagues. This is/could be why we have 'exiled' populations of humans of different races all over the globe.

37 posted on 03/19/2002 4:03:40 PM PST by blam
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To: #3Fan
"were probably built by a people like the Chachapoya."

I went looking for information on these folks the last time you mentioned them and found a little. Can you lead me to some detailed information about them? Thanks ahead of time.

38 posted on 03/19/2002 5:10:47 PM PST by blam
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To: blam
Try this website

Warriors of the Clouds: A Lost Civilization in the Upper Amazon of Peru

And I thing you might find some more stuff or either the History channel or Discovery Channel web site. One of them had a special on the Mummies of the Chachapoyas but I can't remember who.

a. cricket

39 posted on 03/19/2002 5:53:14 PM PST by another cricket
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To: another cricket
Thanks for the link to other links.
40 posted on 03/19/2002 7:29:01 PM PST by blam
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To: blam;#3fan;another cricket;Light Speed
I thought the following comment from the author of Warriors of the Clouds (and from the website http://chachapoyas.com/ - under comments and conversation) was very interesting.

Date: Sat Nov 28 14:19:12 1998
Name: Keith Muscutt
Subject: White, blue-eyed, bearded Atlanteans, Martian, etc.
Comments: As the author of Warriors..., I need to make my personal position clear on some of the issues raised in this forum.
Despite speculation, sensationalism, and flat-out money-grubbing lies, none of the researchers I respect have ever encountered
anything in the Chachapoya area (modern or ancient) which suggests or requires the intervention of any of the following
in the establishment and florescence of the Chachapoya civilization:

Blue-eyed, bearded white men; Egyptians; Phoenicians; Martians; Atlanteans; Lost tribes of Israelites; Mormons; Irish priests paddling corracles; etc.
Indeed, all the scientific evidence suggests that indigenous, native-American cultures developed entirely independent of Old World
(or interplanetary) contact subsequent to the initial human immigrations into the Americas.

My views on this subject are clearly spelled out in "Warriors..." for anyone who cares to read them.
Personally, I remain open to the possibility of trans-Pacific and/or trans-Atlantic contact.
There is some circumstantial evidence to that effect which has been presented by reputable authorities,
but nothing which convinces me so far. I find it disappointing that so many people continue to invoke mysterious, unsubstantiated, and worse yet unsubstantiable, causes behind the development of ancient American civilizations.
In some cases these opinions seem tinged with a kind of racist assumption that native-Americans do not have the intellectual skills to develop high levels of culture.
Others are simply engaged in flights of fantasy. Feel free to continue discussing these issues here.
However, I hope some of the contributors will chime in occasionally to challenge irrational or misinformed claims.
Thank you. Your host, Keith Muscutt.

41 posted on 03/19/2002 9:23:53 PM PST by d4now
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To: blam, gnarledmaw
I read that some time after the destruction of Carthage that it was reported that Plutarch spoke that he had read (from 'writings' in the ruins) that the Carthagenians(sp) had traded with nations across the Atlantic. Then we have the 'cocaine mummies' and of course, Solon's tales of Atlantis, as related to him by the Egyptian high priests, etc. I believe there was ancient contact between Asia, Europe, the Americas and Africa. ...and that this contact was broken numerous times (and memory of this contact was forgotten) due to worldwide catastrophies, famine and/or plagues. This is/could be why we have 'exiled' populations of humans of different races all over the globe.

Yes, I believe the same. Look at this about the Guanchas and this. I think the Guanchas were related to the Chachapoyas.

gnarledmaw, you may find these links interesting.

42 posted on 03/19/2002 11:42:35 PM PST by #3Fan
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To: blam
I went looking for information on these folks the last time you mentioned them and found a little. Can you lead me to some detailed information about them? Thanks ahead of time.

Yes I remember last time I couldn't find the eye-witness account of the hiker who described the blond, tall, white natives in detail who were probably the descendents of the Chachapoya. About all I still have is anothers cricket's link.

43 posted on 03/19/2002 11:46:06 PM PST by #3Fan
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To: d4now
The links in post #40 may be of interest to you also.
44 posted on 03/19/2002 11:49:42 PM PST by #3Fan
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To: #3Fan;LostTribe
Great links. I'll comment later after complete reading. LostTribe, are these some more of the proto-Celtics?
45 posted on 03/20/2002 4:33:48 AM PST by blam
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To: blam
>are these some more of the proto-Celtics?

Could well be. I usually refer back to America B.C. by Harvards Dr. Barry Fell when it comes to this sort of find in the Americas. It's a great eye opener and starting point, and he attributes many of these finds to early "proto-Celts".

46 posted on 03/20/2002 6:21:03 AM PST by LostTribe
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To: LostTribe
"America B.C. by Harvards Dr. Barry Fell "

Thanks, I have the book. Also, I have Assyrian Tablets on order.

47 posted on 03/20/2002 6:27:40 AM PST by blam
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To: blam
Think you will enjoy the book analyzing the Assyrian Tablets in the British Museum a lot. Be sure to have a red pen handy, as there is LOTS to mark. {ggg}. After the intro, he gets to the meat pretty quickly. In addition to finding The Lost Tribes of Israel I think the small book is a great primer on Ancient History in general. Should be required reading for all HS History students, if they even study History in school these days...
48 posted on 03/20/2002 6:38:54 AM PST by LostTribe
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To: LostTribe
"Missing Links Discovered In Assyrian Tablets

E. Raymond Capt

This is the one I ordered.

49 posted on 03/20/2002 8:28:30 AM PST by blam
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Comment #50 Removed by Moderator


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