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Range Finding Scopes
self | Now | Dead Dog

Posted on 03/21/2002 6:17:44 AM PST by Dead Dog

I'm looking at buying a scope for a Remington model 700 in .338 Win Mag.

I would like to get a scope with a range finding recticle, and would like to get freeper feedback on scope preferences and the different range finding recticles such as mil-dot. Are they worth the extra cost?

The rifle/scope will be used on Mule Deer (open country), and Elk in dense/lowlight forests. Most game will be at distances less than 200 yards, however I would like to practice with the rifle at targets beyond 600 yards.

Any thoughts?


TOPICS: Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: banglist; hunting; optics; ranging; rifles; scopes

1 posted on 03/21/2002 6:17:44 AM PST by Dead Dog
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To: Dead Dog
Oops, I have no idea how this ended up in News/Activism. My appologies.
2 posted on 03/21/2002 6:22:47 AM PST by Dead Dog
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To: Dead Dog
If you have the dough, Lueopold makes an excellent one. I don't remember the model number, but it's their LE model. Another good one is available from Springfield Armory.

Either one will set you back around 600 or so.

L

3 posted on 03/21/2002 6:27:18 AM PST by Lurker
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To: Dead Dog; bang_list
You'll get lots of opinions here, from a variety of perspectives. Personally I prefer Leupold glass, VariXIII, for their optical clarity, repeatability, and durability.

Mil Dot reticles take some practice to use properly, but once learned the process is easy to employ. For hunting, its probably just as practical - and often quicker- to drag along a good laser rangefinder. The rangefinding reticle is a good backup, however, in case you have problems with the laser.

Check out the Leupold VariXIII and Tactical series scopes, for a 338 the 3.5-10x or 4.5-14x make sense.

Shepard, Nightforce and Trijicon also make an excellent line of quality rangefinding scopes, some with illuminated reticles for low light hunting, and of course Swarovski and Zeiss glass is considered top notch.

4 posted on 03/21/2002 6:32:11 AM PST by xsrdx
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To: bang_list
bump
5 posted on 03/21/2002 6:32:54 AM PST by Dead Dog
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To: Dead Dog
Agree with lurker, above.

Get down to the nearest gun shop and ask them to show you the newest springfield scope catalogue. There are some rather fine instruments to choose from.
They have cross hairs, mil dots, brackets, and combinations.

personally, I am waiting for someone to invent a scope that works like the autofocus on a camara. You simply sight to the target, and as the "zoom" lens focuses the target, it actuates a BDC for the correct range. Would be neat. At present, it must be done manually

6 posted on 03/21/2002 6:33:47 AM PST by going hot
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To: Dead Dog
Long range shooting makes special demands on a scope. A conventional 1" scope may have just barely enough elevation range for that much drop, and that is why the long range scopes by Leupold and others use the 30mm tube. Also, if your scope on your rifle with your mounts isn't pretty well centered before you start making adjustments then you may have less range of adjustment than the specs on your scope would indicate.

Bottom line, setting up a scoped rifle for long range shooting is a very exacting nitpicky job that often requires the services of a gunsmith specializing in target rifles.

7 posted on 03/21/2002 6:41:00 AM PST by SBprone
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To: SBprone
Agree. The smith is probably as important as the scope.
8 posted on 03/21/2002 6:46:00 AM PST by Eric in the Ozarks
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To: going hot
The Sheppherd Range Finding Scope has darn decent clarity and is the quickest and simplist at range finding. It's nearly automatic........

I am THRILLED with mine and have taken mule deer at 400yds with a Browning A-Bolt (BOSS) in .308 (150gr Nosler Ballistic Tip/Varget).

With proper bracing/tripod/sandbags the combo has shot 4in groups at 600yds and weighs in at less than 8lbs.

Once the scope is sighted in, no further adjustments are required. Heck, I'm mildly surprised the anti-gunners haven't gone after this combo........it allows the layman to shoot long-range, limited only by a steady hand and clean trigger pull.

Did you know that after around 400yds it's extremely difficult to determine where a shot came from?

9 posted on 03/21/2002 6:55:14 AM PST by Mariner
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To: Mariner
How much did the Shepperd set you back?
10 posted on 03/21/2002 7:03:19 AM PST by Ancesthntr
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To: Mariner
Very interesting. I will definately check it out.

In answer to your question, yes.

11 posted on 03/21/2002 7:03:43 AM PST by going hot
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To: Dead Dog
You can find a Tasco 8-32X42mm will full mil dot reticle for about 130.00. That should be cheap enough that you can get one and if you dont like it go back to another type.

I've been pretty happy with some of my 'higher end' tasco scopes and they are a LOT less expensive than Leupold.

It could use a decent sun shade though

12 posted on 03/21/2002 7:07:44 AM PST by Centurion2000
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To: Ancesthntr
Unfortunately, about $650.
13 posted on 03/21/2002 7:08:21 AM PST by Mariner
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To: Mariner
Follow up post:

with the 150 grains, 400 yards it excellent results. For longer ranges, the federal 165 grain soft point boat tails work flawlessly. Check out a box, you might be pleasently surprised.

14 posted on 03/21/2002 7:09:53 AM PST by going hot
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To: Mariner
Thanks. For that kind of accuracy, almost guaranteed, it might be worth it. Now I have to find a way to sneak this one by She Who Must Be Obeyed.
15 posted on 03/21/2002 7:11:13 AM PST by Ancesthntr
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To: Dead Dog
All my fine tuned rifles have Leopold scopes on them. As far as having a mil-dot scope on anything, I don't think they're worth the trouble. You may be wasting your money in getting something you don't use. To give you an idea what I'm writing about, go to www.shooterready.com. It has a tutorial on using a mil-dot scope. Mil-dots are used for figuring out the range when there is a known object that you can measure off of. By the time you use the math, your quarry will be long gone.
16 posted on 03/21/2002 7:26:18 AM PST by Shooter 2.5
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To: Ancesthntr
Hold on pard......that Rem 700 will NEVER shoot that accurately with a lightweight barrel.

With a little tweaking by a good smith......and properly tuned ammo (ammo tuned to the barrel) you MIGHT get 1.5MOA at 100yds, but most likely 2.0.

The rifle is far more important than the scope.

17 posted on 03/21/2002 7:32:20 AM PST by Mariner
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To: Shooter 2.5
Look at the Shepphard scope......you can range sub-second out to 1000yds.
18 posted on 03/21/2002 7:34:25 AM PST by Mariner
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To: Mariner
Man...that's some scope !
19 posted on 03/21/2002 7:42:18 AM PST by Eric in the Ozarks
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To: Mariner
Who said anything about a light barrel? My Rem 700 is the Varmint Synthetic, with the heavy barrel. With a used Tasco 4-14 scope I shoot under 1 MOA (when I do my part correctly) using Sierra 168 gr. Matchkings. I have yet to develop my own loads, but hopefully will this spring & summer. I expect that this will not only cut my cost per round, but result in a bit better accuracy. I am hoping for a consistant 3/4 MOA.

I agree that the rifle is more important than the scope, but the latter can help a lot at extended ranges, as you've indicated.

Aim small, miss small.

20 posted on 03/21/2002 7:46:42 AM PST by Ancesthntr
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To: Dead Dog
In addition to the great comments on scope selection don't forget to pay attention to bases and rings.

To reach out past 1000 yards...well within the .338 range...depending on which scope you select, you may need a tapered base setup.

Badger Ordnance makes an excellent setup for the 700 but will cost in the area of $250...it will give you a 20MOA taper.

Check with Premier Reticles, they used to have the best prices on the Badger rings and base, good prices on Leupold items also. Premier will also refit your Leupold scope with a different reticle if you change your mind down the road...

A mil-dot reticle is great to practice with but if you are stricly hunting I find the Leupold Duplex faster and easier to use...it uses the power ring and bracketing of the target in the reticle to approximate range...after saying that I must confess that I use the mil-dot...it's slower but more accurate.

Premier Reticles

Badger Ordnance

Leupold

21 posted on 03/21/2002 7:53:17 AM PST by in the Arena
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To: Ancesthntr
You lug that anchor around whilst hunting? How much does it weigh in .338?

I'm too old for that:)

22 posted on 03/21/2002 7:54:11 AM PST by Mariner
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To: Mariner
I'm through buying any other scopes. The Leopolds do the job for me and I have the turret adjustment knobs on all of them. What does sub-second mean?
23 posted on 03/21/2002 7:54:18 AM PST by Shooter 2.5
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To: Shooter 2.5
It takes less than a second to determine the correct range and have your target in the cross-hairs. You don't have to turn any knobs either.

That said, I still love my 30.06/Model 70 Standard weight with the Burris 4-16. I zero at 200yds, never shoot over 300yds with it........

The 400yd shot was an anomoly for me, I knew I could do and successfully took the shot with that Browning .308.

24 posted on 03/21/2002 7:58:24 AM PST by Mariner
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To: Dead Dog
I have a Springfield Armory 3rd Gen Illuminated Retical ranging scope on my Stoner SR-25. It's an awesome thing :)
25 posted on 03/21/2002 8:01:38 AM PST by Jefferson Adams
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To: Mariner
I helped set up my friend's Shepherd scope and I did use it at the time so I know about them. If I had to confront same size targets at various ranges quickly with the clock running, I can't think of another scope that I would use. I like the Leopold's for known distances like Silhouette Shooting. What exactly is sub-second?
26 posted on 03/21/2002 8:06:15 AM PST by Shooter 2.5
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To: Dead Dog
Go HERE to see how the Springfield reticle works. It's similar to a Sheppard, in that it's a series of progressively smaller "rectangles" (Sheppard uses circles). You raise the gun up the line until you find the one that fits your targe, giving you automatic ranging.
27 posted on 03/21/2002 8:09:07 AM PST by Jefferson Adams
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To: Mariner
You lug that anchor around whilst hunting? How much does it weigh in .338?

I think that you confuse me with Dead Dog, who wrote the information request at the beginning of this thread. Anyway, I don't hunt, and mine is in .308. It weighs somewhere around 9 pounds (but, then again, I don't care much since I only lug it from the trunk to the firing line and back).

28 posted on 03/21/2002 8:10:19 AM PST by Ancesthntr
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To: Dead Dog ; Texasproud ; Harpseal
Burris has one that is very good and if you can learn how to use it, the standard eliptical mil-dot's on a leaupold is best. I believe the term for my burris on my .300 win mag mauser is called a RAC which I have used with very good success. I have used mine since mid-80's on the .300 but they have one for the .338 also. I have hunted from Alaska to New Mexico with my custom mauser which Beretta shamelessly copied and called a MATO. I use Warne Maxima bases and QD lever rings as I have iron sights left on my rifle if I had ever dropped or broken the scope during a hunt I could press on and harvest my food.

Click on the RAC link above and look for yourself. Solid reliable and Burris is second to none for durability, wear, accuracy and that all important .......price !

I have a dakota longbow rifle in .338 lapua that has the 16X fixed Leaupold ultra with mil-dots and use it for extream range coyotes and such. If you understand or can learn the use of a mildot then that would be a solid type of ranging system to look into. Key with any mildot/RAC scope is find a load either custom or factory and stick to it. If you swap around your wasting your time with a RAC system of any type in your scope.

Hope I helped, stay safe, enjoy your game you harvest.

29 posted on 03/21/2002 8:16:35 AM PST by Squantos
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To: Shooter 2.5
Comments welcomed....Stay Safe !
30 posted on 03/21/2002 8:18:33 AM PST by Squantos
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To: SBprone
Agreed, anything beyond ~600yds requires special attention to scope mounting. Using a 1" tube, I need to slope the scope 20MOA down - which is a problem on rifles with fixed scope mounts (Steyr Scout in this case). There are rings which provide such a slope, but so far I haven't found any that are reliable enough.
31 posted on 03/21/2002 8:21:10 AM PST by ctdonath2
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To: Dead Dog
Hey all while we are on the subject of Rifles I wonder if any of you could help me with some info...

I recently got myself a Ruger 10/22 Rifle and I want some better clips than those stupid Barrel jobs that fit up into the gun, I recently got 4 of the plastic "banana" clips that hold ten (made by Eagle I belive) but I would like to find something that is made of metal or maybe "composite" based, I don't care about capacity (I know there is some stupid ban on the old 25 shell banana style clips) anyone got any ideas?

32 posted on 03/21/2002 8:30:07 AM PST by Mad Dawgg
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To: Dead Dog
If you want the best scope, check out US Optics. They are better than the Europeans, expensive, and superior to Leupold and other big Amreican brands, which use Japanese lenses made from Chinese glass. If you want a scope that is trusted by the USMC, and which is so rugged it can withstand being used as a club on concrete, US Optics is for you.

100% made in USA. There may be a wait of a few months for your scope.

For learning about reticles and ranging, read "The Ultimate Sniper."

33 posted on 03/21/2002 8:30:31 AM PST by Atlas Sneezed
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To: Dead Dog
Get a real scope !

Rigel Optics

34 posted on 03/21/2002 8:43:53 AM PST by austinite
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To: xsrdx
ome with illuminated reticles for low light hunting,

Why would you ever be in a lowlight situation, what with your spotlight on the deer and all?

35 posted on 03/21/2002 9:09:37 AM PST by TheErnFormerlyKnownAsBig
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To: Dead Dog
I got a ATN with a illuminated reticle an bullet drop to 600 yards for 200 bucks. That was a special deal, but they have them for every price range between 250 and your whole paycheck.
36 posted on 03/21/2002 9:14:10 AM PST by TheErnFormerlyKnownAsBig
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To: big ern
Why would you ever be in a lowlight situation, what with your spotlight on the deer and all?

That's an excellent point, not to mention you might bang up that purty scope when that big ol' 338 recoils up and smacks the door frame on your huntin' rig.

37 posted on 03/21/2002 12:09:02 PM PST by xsrdx
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To: xsrdx
Nah,

the Huntin' rig is a flatbed with a treestand/sofa (orange of course) mounted in the back.

Had to do that since the beer cooler (1955 Frigidair Chest Freezer powered by a surplus GPU) doesn't fit in the cab.

38 posted on 03/21/2002 12:20:06 PM PST by Dead Dog
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To: Beelzebubba
Don't forget to tell them to take out a loan for any scope from U.S.Optics. I agree, THE BEST OPTICS anywhere, and expensive, but definitely worth the money.
39 posted on 03/21/2002 1:13:00 PM PST by TEXASPROUD
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