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For Catholics: What shall we do...
23 March A.D. 2002 | father_elijah

Posted on 03/23/2002 5:34:00 AM PST by father_elijah

SHALL WE GATHER AT THE RIVER?

We Catholic Americans are at a crossroads. Our Lord Jesus Christ who is the Light of the World is exposing all those who wound his sacred Body by abusing children and youth. Our Lord is also exposing rot and disease within the structures and leadership of the Church from within provinces of religious orders, Catholic universities, and diocesan chanceries.

It is time to clean house. Not only do the pederasts, sex abusers, and homosexuals need to be removed from leadership and the ranks of the ordained, but also the Church needs to excommunicate all Catholic politicians in the United States of America whose votes continue the holocaust of abortion.

PREPARATION
In order to serve Christ and his poor Church in this time of crisis, each of us are called to avail ourselves of the sacraments that we may trample the devil under our feet. Let each of us 1) make a good confession; 2) receive the Eucharist on the Feast of Divine Mercy and receive Christ’s promises to St. Faustina of mercy and pardon; 3) engage in works of mercy; and, 4) encourage others to do the same.


We lead by prayer, and we are made strong by Christ’s self-offering of his Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. We have a great weapon for fighting evil in the rosary. We do not turn to prayer as a last resort, but we turn to prayer as the beginning, center, and end of all that we strive to do for Our Lord Jesus Christ. We engage in prayer for the Church knowing that when we pray we are not alone in prayer or in action. Our Lord, Our Lady, St. Joseph, and the whole communion of saints join with us in interceding for the Church.

We who long for the cleansing of the Church from these grave evils have the means of prayer through which we can grow in holiness even as we pray for the Church to be cleansed of evil and made holy as Christ is holy. Let us avail ourseves of these gifts of prayer:

The Daily Mass or a daily Act of Spiritual Communion
Perpetual Eucharistic Adoration
Benediction and Adoration
The Holy Rosary
The Chaplet of Divine Mercy
The Litanies
The Liturgy of the Hours
Other Chaplets and Devotions

Let every action we undertake be covered in prayer and overshadowed by the Holy Spirit so that only God’s will is desired and achieved through our efforts.

ACTION
For love of the Lord Jesus Christ, we are called to action against evil. Let each faithful Catholic offer themselves at Mass or at home to be the beginning point of the Church’s cleansing and renewal. Ask the Lord’s blessing that we may each speak the truth in love and walk in the Holy Spirit.

There are a variety of actions that one can undertake to be part of the solution. The following are suggestions that have been made on various internet discussion lists.

*Show up at your parish and pray at 3pm every day
*Show up at your diocesan Chancery and pray
*Show up at the nearest Chancery on the Monday after Easter
at 12 noon and pray the Rosary for the Cleansing of the Priesthood

*Write, telephone, and e-mail your bishops and priests and express your horror over the sexual scandals and tell them you expect full disclosure and immediate action.
*Write to the Holy Father -- write in Polish if you can -- and beg him to intervene and clean up the Church in the United States. Be sure to copy your bishop and pastor.

The following are some actions you may consider asking of the Holy Father(and recommending to your bishop):

1. Ask the Holy Father to lead the Church in a worldwide Day of Penance for the sexual sins of the Church’s leadership;
2. Ask the Holy Father to declare that homosexuals may not receive Holy Orders;
3. Ask the Holy Father to remove Cardinals, bishops, priests, and deacons who have covered up cases of sexual abuse.
4. Ask the Holy Father to give the Church in the USA new Cardinals especially elevating Archbishop Chaput of Denver
5. Ask the Holy Father to shut down religious orders or provinces of religious orders (like the California province of the Society of Jesus) that are a scandal in themselves.
6. Ask the Holy Father to give Cardinal Law, Cardinal Egan, and Cardinal Mahony new jobs at the Vatican.
7. Ask the Holy Father to suspend the US National Conference of Catholic Bishops and to appoint either a triumvirate to clean house or an Inquisitor General to root out evil and liberate the Church in the USA from error and crime.
8. Ask the Holy Father to restore the prayer “St. Michael the Archangel” to the close of every Mass.
9. Ask the Holy Father to extend the faculty to every priest in the Church to celebrate Mass according to the 1962 Missal.
10. Ask the Holy Father to excommunicate Catholic politicians who support the holocaust of abortion.
11. Ask the Holy Father to give the Cardinal’s red hat to Archbishop Chaput, Bishop Bruskewitz, Fr. Benedict Groeschel, Fr. Joseph Fessio, S.J.
12. Ask the Holy Father to disassociate the Church from those once Catholic universitiies and colleges that no longer affirm the magisterium of the Church or loyalty to the Pope.
13. Ask the Holy Father to make Fr. Benedict Groeschel the next Archbishop of New York.


Some will find these ideas too presumptuous, but it is clear that the Holy Father and the leadership of the Church in the USA need to hear from the rank and file faithful.

Finally, be sure to pray for the Pope, and write to the Holy Father a letter of encouragement. Assure him of your prayers for his intentions and for him personally. Also, write letters of encouragement to any deacon, priest, or bishop whom you know to be defenders of the faith and devoted to Our Lord Jesus Christ. Our good and faithful priests need to know that they are loved and cherished.

Jesus, King of the nations, hear us.
Christ, graciously hear us.
Our Lady of Guadalupe, pray for us.
Good Saint Joseph, pray for us.
St. Elizabeth Ann Seton, pray for us.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: catholicaction; catholicchurch; catholiclist
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To: Conservative til I die
btw, let me add i meant born again fundamentalists, not Catholics. My faith was born again, and it was due tyo the undeniable truth of the Catholic Church.
101 posted on 03/23/2002 9:13:46 AM PST by Conservative til I die
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To: Pyro7480
Thanks for posting this. I hadn't seen the article or even heard about it. Again, many thanks.
102 posted on 03/23/2002 9:14:37 AM PST by father_elijah
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To: Conservative til I die
Jesus Christ IS the way, the truth and the life. No man cometh unto the Father but by Him.

You are in denial and your heart is an adamant stone. Repent! Jesus is coming back very soon for a bride that is without spot or wrinkle. Does that describe YOU (or the RC institution)?

103 posted on 03/23/2002 9:14:37 AM PST by Ex-Wretch
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To: father_elijah
Truth hurts eh!!Tell me what those tall fish-mouth hats depict that the cardinals wear on their heads??!!I KNOW what it depicts!
104 posted on 03/23/2002 9:15:56 AM PST by timestax
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To: NYer
Thank you for your excellent suggestion regarding the placement of the Tabernacle.
105 posted on 03/23/2002 9:16:36 AM PST by father_elijah
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To: timestax
Dude, it does. Thanks to your brilliance, I'm leaving the "Whore of Babylon" today!!!!!!!! Thanks!

Quick, someone pass me the Jack Chick comic or the Watchtower; I need to read something with a lot of academic weight!!!!
106 posted on 03/23/2002 9:16:52 AM PST by Conservative til I die
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To: father_elijah
As a member of the Eastern Orthodox Church, I grieve also for the difficult time the RC Church is living through at this time of attacks on Christianity all over the world (has it ever ceased?)

It couldn't have come at a worse time...and yet it seems to me that the spirit of Christ is guiding this latest struggle within the RC Church as well as many other branches of Christianity. The EO Church (in particular the Greek Orthodox) went through a similar upheaval several years ago and survived.

107 posted on 03/23/2002 9:17:09 AM PST by eleni121
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To: Ex-Wretch
Who talks like you people do? Talk like a normal person.
108 posted on 03/23/2002 9:18:19 AM PST by Conservative til I die
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To: timestax
I am happy for you that you feel enlightened. May the Lord bless you and by His Spirit lead you into all truth.
109 posted on 03/23/2002 9:19:08 AM PST by father_elijah
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To: Conservative til I die
Truth hurts eh? Ask your priest guru to explain to you the accurate history of those tall, fish-mouth hats that the cardinals/priests sometimes wear. It isn't pretty!!
110 posted on 03/23/2002 9:19:43 AM PST by timestax
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To: timestax
Go ahead. Say it. You know you want to.
111 posted on 03/23/2002 9:20:13 AM PST by Judith Anne
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To: timestax
Tell me who this "Jay-zuz" is and why I need to pay him through the man with the 900 # and the Kentucky Fried hairdo I see on late-night TV in order for this Jay-zuz character to buy me a new car and consolidate my debts?
112 posted on 03/23/2002 9:20:15 AM PST by Conservative til I die
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To: Alas Babylon!
Sorry, I don't speak Latin and neither did Jesus

Actually, it is likely that Jesus had at least some Latin as Jerusalem was a very cosmopolitan city under Roman control. Recall that He had no trouble communicating with the centurion who sought healing for his daughter.

113 posted on 03/23/2002 9:21:00 AM PST by pbear8
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To: father_elijah
Just find out the accurate history of those tall fish-mouth hats and their relationship with sexual behavior, and then get back to me if you dare!
114 posted on 03/23/2002 9:21:52 AM PST by timestax
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To: timestax
Do these tall fish hats have anything to do with the Whoremaster receiving the mark of Shiva (too bad it wasn't) awhile back? Please, astound me with more of your truth, satan.
115 posted on 03/23/2002 9:22:08 AM PST by Conservative til I die
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To: timestax
Come on, coward. Fill us in.
116 posted on 03/23/2002 9:23:11 AM PST by Judith Anne
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To: Conservative til I die
I never mentioned anybodies name or religion. Your just spittin out venom and not even thinking !
117 posted on 03/23/2002 9:23:51 AM PST by timestax
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To: Conservative til I die
"Who talks like you people do? Talk like a normal person."

If you had the Holy Ghost you would not be asking the question.

I am leaving for a while. But I will be back.

118 posted on 03/23/2002 9:24:26 AM PST by Ex-Wretch
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To: Judith Anne
I'm not going to do your research for you. Ask your "Can do no wrong" preists or "Can do no wrong" pope!!
119 posted on 03/23/2002 9:25:08 AM PST by timestax
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To: timestax
This is the best I could find on the net. It's by some idiot (any relation?) and his pyarmidology/bible code matrix site, and these are clearly "obvious facts:"

Later, the earth entered the period of ascension of the constellation Pisces the Fish just before the appearance of Yeshua (Jesus) in His earthly ministry. It is no wonder that the superstitious people of earth adopted the sign of the fish for Christianity, as you see on many cars today. People have always been drawn to mix pagan symbols into their religion. Likewise, the Roman Catholic church with the mitered hats worn by the Pope and Cardinals are in the shape of a fish head with an open mouth pointing upwards. We entered the age of Pisces and the people adopted fish symbols so that even though Christian, they wanted to mix in the pagan worship of the gods from the zodiac. Don't write me and tell me these mean something else than just stated, since it is apparent to me that they represent Pisces the Fish. Now that we are entering Aquarius, will Christians adopt symbols related to the water pourer, and perhaps explain that it represents the pouring out of the Holy Spirit to the people on earth? Come to think of it, if Yeshua comes to earth to reign soon, as the Messiah. then this will occur.
120 posted on 03/23/2002 9:25:19 AM PST by Conservative til I die
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To: RnMomof7
You are very bright and I enjoy your posts and your zest for life and for much that is holy. I am sorry that you have information that is not correct for the most part.

However I respect your search for truth. Since you must have read my post as you responded to it can you answer my request for scriptural support for your position about celibacy?

I also know you are smart enough to know that you don't bring a load of furniture into a house you're trying to clean unless you don't really want it clean. I hope you don't have another agenda than just loving Jesus Christ.

121 posted on 03/23/2002 9:27:00 AM PST by saradippity
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To: timestax
How about showing abit of respect for the good Father, who is taking the time to come and talk with the rest of us?

sw

122 posted on 03/23/2002 9:27:35 AM PST by spectre
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To: Ex-Wretch
OK, I will learn to talk like the Spirit (guess he's a Southern fundie) while you're gone: "Repent, for thine time is nigh! Open your hearts up to Jesus's special born again gift and praise thy name unto all the peoples of the Earth." Is taht better? Am I a True Christian now that I too, can mangle the KJV!?!?
123 posted on 03/23/2002 9:27:44 AM PST by Conservative til I die
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To: timestax
I think it is fascinating that you are so interested in haberdashery and sexual behavior. Now why would that be?
124 posted on 03/23/2002 9:28:08 AM PST by father_elijah
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To: timestax
"Truth hurts eh? Ask your priest guru to explain to you the accurate history of those tall, fish-mouth hats that the cardinals/priests sometimes wear. It isn't pretty!!" post 114

"I never mentioned anybodies name or religion. Your just spittin out venom and not even thinking !" post 117

Gee, you SURE had me fooled!

125 posted on 03/23/2002 9:28:44 AM PST by Judith Anne
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Comment #126 Removed by Moderator

To: timestax
I'm not going to do your research for you. Ask your "Can do no wrong" preists or "Can do no wrong" pope!!

Please stop this. Your display of ignorance borders on the embarrassing.

127 posted on 03/23/2002 9:31:39 AM PST by father_elijah
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To: timestax
Abuse button hit. See ya, troll.
128 posted on 03/23/2002 9:32:10 AM PST by Conservative til I die
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To: timestax
Catholics promote sexuall abuse on youth!

Your generalization regarding Catholics is a lie. That tells me more about you than I ever cared to know.

129 posted on 03/23/2002 9:34:19 AM PST by father_elijah
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To: LT41
LT41: member since March 23rd, 2002

Just joined up to make one post, did you? You're free to be a sniper, but don't expect honorable people to respect you or take you seriously.

130 posted on 03/23/2002 9:35:35 AM PST by LantzALot
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To: Conservative til I die
wow!
131 posted on 03/23/2002 9:35:52 AM PST by timestax
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To: Ex-Wretch
If there is ONE thing I cannot stand above all other things about people is arrogance, and if there are TWO things I cannot stand about arrogant people, it is when they are "preachy" (meaning that they think they have a monopoly on salvation, and this applies to people of all faiths, but especially to "Bible Christians") or when they are elitist and/or extremist Leftist. I have particularly clashed with these people over the years in heated debates. While I think that is particularly sad in the case of the Leftists, many of whom have not heard about the saving power of God, I think it is ever more SAD in the case of "Bible Christians," because they HAVE heard of this saving power, but have become arrogant about it.

There are warnings from the Good Book that warn the community of the believers on "strange interpretations" of passages, instead of reading the passage in the context of the WHOLE of Scripture's teachings.

"The apostle Peter was very concerned about this problem, and addressed it in his letters. In 2 Peter 1:20-21, he gave his first rule of Bible interpretation: 'First of all you must understand this, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, because no prophecy ever came by the impulse of man, but men moved by the HoIy Spirit spoke from God.' By prophecy, he simply means anything that Scripture teaches (prophecy does not always mean predicting the future). For this reason, we must avoid the temptation to evaluate passages by simply asking, 'What do I think this verse means?' Christ gave the Church teachers, and he did so for a very specific reason: to assist people in how to understand Scripture and its teachings. Therefore, rather than simply looking to private interpretations, we must look to the public interpretation of Scripture, which is what the Church has. We must read Scripture in the context of what the Church has historically understood it to mean, for it was the Church that Christ established as 'the pillar and foundation of the truth' (1 Tim. 3:15)." (Taken from Starting Out as an Apologist from the Catholic Answers website.)

Was the Bible intended to be sole rule of faith? Is it the only source of Truth? NO! The ultimate source of Truth itself is God, and the Bible made NO such claim that it is the sole rule of faith (check out 1 Cor. 11:2, 2 Thess. 2:15, 2 Tim. 2:2, 2 Peter 1:20-21, 3:15-16). As I have said to others, the Word of God (the Bible) is the BEGINNING of wisdom ( and the search for Truth), not the end.

132 posted on 03/23/2002 9:39:02 AM PST by Pyro7480
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To: father_elijah
I do believe you must be doing some mighty good work, for the little imps of hell to play gadfly so tenaciously! God bless you! ;-D
133 posted on 03/23/2002 9:39:37 AM PST by Judith Anne
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To: timestax
I'm not going to do your research for you.

Taken as a whole, the things you've posted point to a fatal lack of research of your own. Why not look for the truth about just the remarks you made following the above statement -- and then try again.

134 posted on 03/23/2002 9:41:08 AM PST by LantzALot
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To: eleni121
Thanks for your kind words. It is really appreciated. :-)
135 posted on 03/23/2002 9:42:22 AM PST by Pyro7480
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To: father_elijah
Stations of the Cross?
136 posted on 03/23/2002 9:42:30 AM PST by Salvation
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To: Judith Anne
And God bless you too, Judith Anne. May Jesus Christ be praised.
137 posted on 03/23/2002 9:42:37 AM PST by father_elijah
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To: Salvation
Thank you! How did I miss that -- especially during Lent? God bless.
138 posted on 03/23/2002 9:43:48 AM PST by father_elijah
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To: LantzALot
Yeah but Lantz, all timestax has to do is say "You can't stand the Truth!" and voila, it must be the truth!
139 posted on 03/23/2002 9:44:34 AM PST by Conservative til I die
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To: father_elijah
Thankyou for this great post,it is just what we need,a battle plan,because this is war.

Another suggestion I will incorporate in my letter is that the priest turn around.Looking at him is painful because I cannot but wonder if he is truly offering up our prayers to the Father or is instead blocking the organic flow of God's people to Him.This is distracting.

With respect to the priestt,it must be disconcerting to focus on the big H,Him with all those eyes focusing on the little h,him. So,as far as I'm conscerned this is a win-win situation.

140 posted on 03/23/2002 9:44:41 AM PST by saradippity
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To: eleni121
You warm my heart with your words, dear sister in Christ. God bless you.
141 posted on 03/23/2002 9:44:46 AM PST by father_elijah
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To: LantzALot
WOW!!
142 posted on 03/23/2002 9:44:48 AM PST by timestax
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To: father_elijah
Many churches in the United States are currently involed in an evangelization program entitled, "Disciples in Mission."

I encourage any Catholic to ask your priest and bishop to bring this program to your parish. Your parish council will be very happy with the results!
Salvation

143 posted on 03/23/2002 9:46:06 AM PST by Salvation
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To: father_elijah
Jesus Christ, Living Son of the Living God, is Lord of all. ;-D
144 posted on 03/23/2002 9:46:48 AM PST by Judith Anne
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To: saradippity
No I am worried about the what the unbelievers say .......Child abuse is not only an issue in RC churches..we recently had lay minister arrested for molesting a young girl

I do think the homosexuality part in the RC church is driven by the church rule on marriage of priests..

There are some gay men that think it is a good hiding place.No one questions a single 40 year old priest

I have shared before on this forum that some years ago I introduced a young man that was fatherless and had an alcoholic mom over to a Catholic priest, I encouraged the relationship. I knew this priest from work..a year or so later the young man (13) attempted to hang himself on Christmas eve

My family had kind of "adopted" him..we could not understand the why of it and the young man never said. A couple years later it came to light that the priest was sexually abusing young men...I had introduced this kid to him..encouraged him to go to spend time with him (The "gifts " from the priest never tipped me off)

That kid could have died and it would have been MY fault..I want this issue solved..I want to be able to believe that priests are safe..that ministers are safe..that is my goal..

BTW My info on marriage in the church at one time is good (given to me by a friend that is a Catholic nun and historian)...The conflict over inheritance in Spain started the policy that we see now

Sar ..some of the holiest men I know are married..God created sex and he said everything he created was "good".

145 posted on 03/23/2002 9:47:16 AM PST by RnMomof7
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To: father_elijah
"Some will find these ideas too presumptuous, but it is clear that the Holy Father and the leadership of the Church in the USA need to hear from the rank and file faithful."

Well, presumtuous is a good word to use. This is not a "flame." I find most of your arguments to be sane and even noteworthy. IMHO you need to withdraw the following "actions" from your final text (my reasons given):

4. Ask the Holy Father to give the Church in the USA new Cardinals especially elevating Archbishop Chaput of Denver
- You should not call upon the Pope to "elevate" those you perceive to be worthy... you should pray for their elevation.

10. Ask the Holy Father to excommunicate Catholic politicians who support the holocaust of abortion.
This is playing "politics." IMHO the Church should develop a "Policy" to withdraw support of any kind from organizations or representatives who support abortion, assisted suicide, homosexuality, etc., etc. Excommunication is too extreme, a public announcement or refusal to extend the sacraments is a far better solution.

11. Ask the Holy Father to give the Cardinal’s red hat to Archbishop Chaput, Bishop Bruskewitz, Fr. Benedict Groeschel, Fr. Joseph Fessio, S.J.
&
13. Ask the Holy Father to make Fr. Benedict Groeschel the next Archbishop of New York.

See #4 Above.

In short, while I applaud your efforts (and will implement some of your suggestions in my own life) I don't feel we as Catholics have the right to place demands upon the Pope. I agree we can (and should) voice our objections to corruption and misuse of the Holy Scriptures we seek to follow.

Thank you for posting your draft-copy.

146 posted on 03/23/2002 9:47:59 AM PST by grumpster-dumpster
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To: timestax
Your most erudite statement yet. I guess that one wins the argument for you.
147 posted on 03/23/2002 9:48:04 AM PST by LantzALot
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To: father_elijah
There are also several welcoming back programs for former Catholics:
Catholics Can Come Home
Welcome Back, Catholics.

Training a team of people who can listen to these fallen away Catholics is a must, but such a rewarding adventure.
PS. Forgiveness is asked. (Very powerful)

148 posted on 03/23/2002 9:48:56 AM PST by Salvation
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Comment #149 Removed by Moderator

To: Conservative til I die
People like him/her/it seem to always think that way.
150 posted on 03/23/2002 9:49:43 AM PST by LantzALot
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