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Pesach Sacrifice and Pilgrimage and Omer Offering to the G d of Israel on the Temple Mount
http://templemountfaithful.org/Events/20020321.htm ^ | March 2002 | Gershon Salomon

Posted on 03/24/2002 12:10:45 PM PST by Phil V.

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To: monkeyshine;PhilV.
Yes reason seems to be absent in Phil's world.
41 posted on 03/24/2002 3:49:58 PM PST by rebdov
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To: rebdov
Muslims are unable to control their murderous impulses and therefore must be appeased.

That does seem to be the argument presented on this thread. Confounding, isn't it?

42 posted on 03/24/2002 4:43:44 PM PST by monkeyshine
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To: rebdov
How is it Jewish bigotry if they wish the free exercise of their religion? Your hatred of Jews is so visceral that your entire thinking process is distorted? If Jews want to act as Jews that is Jewish bigotry? Maybe in Philland.

You need to research Rabbinic Law and it's views on animal sacrifice. I believe that you will find that absent the appropriate place as directed by G_d there CANNOT be animal sacrifice. There has not been an appropriate place for sacrifice since the destruction of the Temple. These End-Timers, it is my understanding, ARE NOT practicing the "accepted" religion. I believe most Jews will agree with my interpretation WRT animal sacrifice.

Please place your pedantic pissiness elsewhere.

43 posted on 03/24/2002 4:47:29 PM PST by Phil V.
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To: Phil V.
I believe that you will find that absent the appropriate place as directed by G_d there CANNOT be animal sacrifice.

Just a point of information-

There are still sacrificial offerings made with out the temple. The first offering is made prior to Yom Kippur. This is made in the form of a chicken: slaughtered as an exchange for the sins of the past year. The name of the offering is called "Kapporot".

As to the prohibitions of sacrifice due to the destruction of the temple, it has been instituted to recite the order of sacrifice in prayer every day. This is done along with the proxcribed study of the practical requirements of animal sacrifice. It is preparation for the time in the future for when the temple will be rebuilt.

There is ample source to cite for the prophecy of the rebuilding of the temple. The redeemer is said to possibly come in a great war. It does not necessarily have to be war, but it could. Many scholars believe that all the prophetic requirements have been met and that the redemption is very near.

44 posted on 03/24/2002 5:24:57 PM PST by Nachum
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To: Phil V.
Listen, you Torah ignoramus, you have no business lecturing me nor anyone else about Rabbinic law. You have never studied it and are incompetent.

As I made plain from my first message, I and most Rabbis are opposed to the groups position as a matter of Jewish law. However, there is some room in law for this incorrect and divergent opinion. I am not going to cite their references and my refutations of those references here. This is not a religion on the line group.

We are supposedly considering matters from a religious neutral position. They maintain that they have an obligation for their practices and have some scholars to justify their position. Being that it is their right to exercise their religion as freely as the Muslims exercise theirs, I find it appalling that you defend the Muslims' right to worship freely while denying the same to the Jews. I find that the worst type of Jew hatred to be found on FR. Repent while there is still time.

45 posted on 03/24/2002 5:28:58 PM PST by rebdov
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To: rebdov
Do you have a problem with Jews' exercising their rights?

I don't think Phil V has a problem with Israelis exercising their rights anywhere and anyhow they wish on Israeli territory.

He does seem to feel that Israelis celebrating exclusivist rituals on illegally occupied territory is an arrogant and imprudent course of action likely to lead to further bloodshed. In which, of course, he is right.

46 posted on 03/24/2002 6:43:52 PM PST by John Locke
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To: Nachum
NACHUM - - - There are still sacrificial offerings made with out the temple.

REBDOV - - - Listen, you Torah ignoramus, you have no business lecturing me nor anyone else about Rabbinic law. You have never studied it and are incompetent . . .Repent while there is still time.


HEY! You guys argue with these guys. This goy is going.
Judaism 101: Qorbanot: Sacrifices and Offerings

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Qorbanot

Frequently Asked Questions
Qorbanot
Purposes of Qorbanot
Types of Qorbanot
Olah: Burnt Offering
Zebach Sh'lamim: Peace Offering
Chatat: Sin Offering
Asham: Guilt Offering
Food and Drink Offerings
Parah Adumah: The Red Heifer

Qorbanot: Sacrifices and Offerings

Level: Advanced

For a long time I was reluctant to write a page on the subject of qorbanot, because it is a subject with little practical application today. However, I felt I had to address these issues, because it is one of the two subjects I receive the most questions about. Interestingly, the questions I receive on this subject are invariably from non-Jews. Most Jews don't seem to have much interest in ancient practices no longer observed.

I will begin by answering the questions I am most commonly asked on these subjects, and then proceed to a more comprehensive discussion of the subject of qorbanot.

Frequently Asked Questions

Do Jews offer sacrifices today?
     No. To my knowledge, no Jews today offer any kind of animal sacrifice or offerings, nor have Jews offered sacrifices since the second century C.E. I have occasionally heard rumors that there are Orthodox rabbis in Israel who practice the techniques of ritual sacrifice, so that the knowledge will not be lost, but I do not know if these stories are reliable, and even if they are, this is not quite the same thing as offering a sacrifice.
When did Jews stop offering sacrifices, and why?
     For the most part, the practice of sacrifice stopped in the year 70 C.E., when the Roman army destroyed the Temple in Jerusalem, the place where sacrifices were offered. The practice was briefly resumed during the Jewish War of 132-135 C.E., but was ended permanently after that war was lost. There were also a few communities that continued sacrifices for a while after that time.
     We stopped offering sacrifices because we do not have a proper place to offer them. The Torah specifically commands us not to offer sacrifices wherever we feel like it; we are only permitted to offer sacrifices in the place that G-d has chosen for that purpose. Deut. 12:13-14. It would be a sin to offer sacrifices in any other place, akin to stealing candles and wine to observe Shabbat.
     The last place appointed by G-d for this purpose was the Temple in Jerusalem, but the Temple has been destroyed and a mosque has been erected in the place where it stood. Until G-d provides us with another place, we cannot offer sacrifices. There was at one time an opinion that in the absence of an assigned place, we could offer sacrifices anywhere. Based on that opinion, certain communities made their own sacrificial places. However, the majority ultimately ruled against this practice, and all sacrifice ceased.
     Orthodox Jews believe that when the messiah comes, a place will be provided for sacrificial purposes.
Do Jews want to resume sacrifices?
     Orthodox Jews do. There are several places in our daily prayer services where we pray for the restoration of the Temple and the resumption of its rituals, including the rituals of sacrifice.
Did the kohanim (priests) or anybody else eat the animals offered?
     Yes! Most types of offerings could be eaten. Certain types were eaten by the kohanim only, or by a specific kohein. Other types were eaten by the person offering the sacrifice and his family. The types of offerings and who was permitted to eat them will be discussed further below.
Isn't sacrifice cruelty to animals?
Animal sacrifice is no more cruel than slaughtering animals for food. In fact, the procedure for slaughtering livestock for sacrificial purposes is the same as the procedure used for slaughtering animals for food, a procedure that is designed to be as quick and painless as possible. See Shechitah. Judaism is very concerned about the proper treatment of animals, and would never advocate a cruel procedure for animal sacrifice.
How do Jews obtain forgiveness without sacrifices?
     Forgiveness is obtained through repentance, prayer and good deeds.

     In Jewish practice, prayer has taken the place of sacrifices. In accordance with the words of Hosea, we render instead of bullocks the offering of our lips (Hosea 14:3) (please note: the KJV translates this somewhat differently). While dedicating the Temple, King Solomon also indicated that prayer can be used to obtain forgiveness (I Kings 8:46-50). Our prayer services are in many ways designed to parallel the sacrificial practices. For example, we have an extra service on shabbat, to parallel the extra shabbat offering. For more information about this, see Jewish Liturgy.

     It is important to note that in Judaism, sacrifice was never the exclusive means of obtaining forgiveness, was not in and of itself sufficient to obtain forgiveness, and in certain circumstances was not even effective to obtain forgiveness. This will be discussed further below.

But isn't a blood sacrifice required in order to obtain forgiveness?
     No. Although animal sacrifice is one means of obtaining forgiveness, there are non-animal offerings as well, and there are other means for obtaining forgiveness that do not involve sacrifices at all.

     The passage that people ordinarily cite for the notion that blood is required is Leviticus 17:11: "For the soul of the flesh is in the blood and I have assigned it for you upon the altar to provide atonement for your souls; for it is the blood that atones for the soul." But the passage that this verse comes from is not about atonement; it is about dietary laws, and the passage says only that blood is used to obtain atonement; not that blood is the only means for obtaining atonement. Leviticus 17:10-12 could be paraphrased as "Don't eat blood, because blood is used in atonement rituals; therefore, don't eat blood."

Were sacrifices a symbol of the savior to come?
     Not according to Judaism. That is a Christian teaching that has no basis in Jewish thought. Jews don't believe in a savior, and don't believe that sacrifice has anything to do with a savior or messiah.

     Quite the contrary, some would say that the original institution of sacrifice had more to do with the Judaism's past than with its future. Rambam suggested that the entire sacrificial cult in Judaism was ordained as an accommodation of man's primitive desires.

     Sacrifice is an ancient and universal human expression of religion. Sacrifice existed among the Hebrews long before the giving of the Torah. When the laws of sacrifice were laid down in the Torah, the pre-existence of a system of sacrificial offering was understood, and sacrificial terminology was used without any explanation. The Torah, rather than creating the institution of sacrifice, carefully circumscribes and limits the practice, permitting it only in certain places, at certain times, in certain manners, by certain people, and for certain purposes. Rambam suggests that these limitations are designed to wean a primitive people away from the debased rites of their idolatrous neighbors.

Qorbanot

In ancient times, a major component of Jewish ritual was the offering of qorbanot. An entire order of the Talmud (Kodashim, that is, Holy Things) is devoted to the subject.

The word "qorbanot" is usually translated as "sacrifices" or "offerings"; however, both of these terms suggest a loss of something or a giving up of something, and although that is certainly a part of the ritual, that is not at all the literal meaning of the Hebrew word. The word qorbanot comes from the root Qof-Resh-Bet, which means "to draw near," and indicates the primary purpose of offerings: to draw us near to G-d.

Parts of the rituals involved in the offering of qorbanot were performed exclusively by the kohanim (priests). These rituals were only performed in the Temple in Jerusalem. The procedures could not be performed by anyone else, and could not be performed in any other place. Because the Temple no longer exists, we can no longer offer qorbanot.

There are three basic concepts underlying qorbanot. The first the aspect of giving. A qorban requires the renunciation of something that belongs to the person making the offering. Thus, sacrifices are made from domestic animals, not wild animals (because wild animals do not belong to anyone). Likewise, offerings of food are ordinarily in the form of flour or meal, which requires substantial work to prepare.

Another important concept is the element of substitution. The idea is that the thing being offered is a substitute for the person making the offering, and the things that are done to the offering are things that should have been done to the person offering. The offering is in some sense "punished" in place of the offerer. It is interesting to note that whenever the subject of qorbanot is addressed in the Torah, the name of G-d used is the four-letter name indicating G-d's mercy.

The third important concept is the idea coming closer. The essence of sacrifice is to bring a person closer to G-d.

Purposes of Qorbanot

Contrary to popular belief, the purpose of qorbanot is not simply to obtain forgiveness from sin. Although many qorbanot have the effect of expiating sins, there are many other purposes for bringing qorbanot, and the expiatory effect is often incidental, and is subject to significant limitations.

Certain qorbanot are brought purely for the purpose of communing with G-d and becoming closer to Him. Others are brought for the purpose of expressing thanks to G-d, love or gratitude. Others are used to cleanse a person of ritual impurity (which does not necessarily have anything to do with sin). And yes, many qorbanot are brought for purposes of atonement.

The atoning aspect of qorbanot is carefully circumscribed. For the most part, qorbanot only expiate unintentional sins, that is, sins committed because a person forgot that this thing was a sin. No atonement is needed for violations committed under duress or through lack of knowledge, and for the most part, qorbanot cannot atone for a malicious, deliberate sin. In addition, qorbanot have no expiating effect unless the person making the offering sincerely repents his or her actions before making the offering, and makes restitution to any person who was harmed by the violation.

Types of Qorbanot

There are many different types of qorbanot, and the laws related to them are detailed and complicated. This section will merely introduce some of the major types of qorbanot, their names and their characteristics. There are many subtypes within these classifications, and some other types that do not fit neatly into these categories.

Olah: Burnt Offering

Perhaps the best-known class of offerings is the burnt offering. It was the oldest and commonest sacrifice, and represented submission to G-d's will. The Hebrew word for burnt offering is olah, from the root Ayin-Lamed-Heh, meaning ascension. It is the same root as the word aliyah, which is used to describe moving to Israel or ascending to the podium to say a blessing over the Torah. An olah is completely burnt on the outer altar; no part of it is eaten by anyone. Because the offering represents complete submission to G-d's will, the entire offering is given to G-d (i.e., it cannot be used after it is burnt). It expresses a desire to commune with G-d, and expiates sins incidentally in the process (because how can you commune with G-d if you are tainted with sins?). An olah could be made from cattle, sheep, goats, or even birds, depending on the offerer's means.

Zebach Sh'lamim: Peace Offering

A peace offering is an offering expressing thanks or gratitude to G-d for His bounties and mercies. The Hebrew term for this type of offering is zebach sh'lamim (or sometimes just sh'lamim), which is related to the word shalom, meaning "peace" or "whole." A representative portion of the offering is burnt on the altar, a portion is given to the kohanim, and the rest is eaten by the offerer and his family; thus, everyone gets a part of this offering. This category of offerings includes thanksgiving-offerings (in Hebrew, Todah, which was obligatory for survivors of life-threatening crises), free will-offerings, and offerings made after fulfillment of a vow. Note that this class of offerings has nothing to do with sin; in fact, the Talmud states that in the age of the messiah (when there is no more sin), this will be the only class of offering that is brought to the Temple.

Chatat: Sin Offering

A sin offering is an offering to atone for and purge a sin. It is an expression of sorrow for the error and a desire to be reconciled with G-d. The Hebrew term for this type of offering is chatat, from the word chayt, meaning "missing the mark." A chatat could only be offered for unintentional sins committed through carelessness, not for intentional, malicious sins. The size of the offering varied according to the nature of the sin and the financial means of the sinner. Some chatatot are individual and some are communal. Communal offerings represent the interdependence of the community, and the fact that we are all responsible for each others' sins. A few special chatatot could not be eaten, but for the most part, for the average person's personal sin, the chatat was eaten by the kohanim.

Asham: Guilt Offering

A guilt offering is an offering to atone for sins of stealing things from the altar, for when you are not sure whether you have committed a sin or what sin you have committed, or for breach of trust. The Hebrew word for a guilt offering is asham. When there was doubt as to whether a person committed a sin, the person would make an asham, rather than a chatat, because bringing a chatat would constitute admission of the sin, and the person would have to be punished for it. If a person brought an asham and later discovered that he had in fact committed the sin, he would have to bring a chatat at that time. An asham was eaten by the kohanim.

Food and Drink Offerings

A meal offering (minchah) represented the devotion of the fruits of man's work to G-d, because it was not a natural product, but something created through man's effort. A representative piece of the offering was burnt on the fire of the altar, but the rest was eaten by the kohanim.

There are also offerings of undiluted wine, referred to as nesekh.

Parah Adumah: The Red Heifer

Some time in 1997, a red heifer was born in Israel. This birth received quite a bit of press coverage, and I received many questions asking about the significance of it.

The ritual of the red heifer (in Hebrew, parah adumah) is part of one of the most mysterious rituals described in the Torah. The purpose of this ritual is to purify people from the defilement caused by contact with the dead. The ritual is discussed in Numbers 19. If you find it difficult to understand, don't feel bad; the sages themselves described it as beyond human understanding. What is so interesting about this ritual is that it purifies the impure, but it also renders the pure impure (i.e., everybody who participates in the ritual becomes impure).

It is believed by many that this ritual will be performed by the messiah when he comes, because we have all suffered the defilement of contact with the dead. Thus, the existence of a red heifer is a possible, but not definite, sign of the messiah. If the messiah were coming, there would be a red heifer, but there could be a red heifer without the messiah coming.

I have not heard any definitive word on whether the animal born in Israel satisfies all the requirements of a parah adumah (e.g., that it be without spot, without blemish, and that it has never been yoked).


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47 posted on 03/24/2002 6:52:56 PM PST by Phil V.
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To: Phil V.
A pity you are leaving. I found a site for you. It is at your level! Here is Kapporot defined.

YOM KIPPUR

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yom Kippur, The Day of Atonement, falls on the eve of the tenth day of Tishrei. That’s when the fast begins too. It’s a big one… twenty-five+ hours!. This year (2001), Yom Kippur starts at sundown, Wednesday, September 26th, and ends Thursday evening, September 27th. It is the most solemn day of the year, a day of fasting and prayers, and is only celebrated one day everywhere. (Could you imagine having to fast two days in a row?).

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

KAPPOROT
A Minhag (custom) observed on the morning before Yom Kippur is Kapparot (Atonement). (Kapporot may also be observed on any weekday of the Aseret Ymay Tshuva.) You purchase a live chicken, (a white rooster for a male and a white hen for a female), and you revolve the chicken around your head reciting a prayer asking that the chicken be considered atonement for your sins. The chicken is then slaughtered and given to the poor (or its value is given). Kapparot may also be done with money instead of a chicken.

http://www.torahtots.com/holidays/yomkipur/yomkstr.htm

48 posted on 03/24/2002 7:01:31 PM PST by Nachum
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To: Nachum
On my way out the door allow me to make this observation.

Had I begun my commentary regarding this up-coming event with a profession of astonishment over the "barbaric" practice of animal sacrifice I predict that a HUGE NUMBER of Observant Freepers would have jumped in with the facts regarding the fringe nature of the Temple Mount Faithful - how they DO NOT represent the average Jew - how my "buying into" the animal sacrifice thing was just one more example of "Phil V.'s anti-Semitism" - not far removed from that old canard of drinking the blood . . . . . . and on, and on, and on. . ..

There is just no way to get out of this thing. Go ahead and light the fuse!

The pools of poison deepen daily. I despair for that people.

49 posted on 03/24/2002 7:17:23 PM PST by Phil V.
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To: Phil V.
The pools of poison deepen daily

My goodness phil, the reinstatement of the order of sacrifice is accepted by every observant Jew on the planet. The Temple Mount faithful are activists in a foolish way, but the desire for the return of this practice is a basic tenet of Judaism.

Does that disturb you? I don't accuse you of being a Jew-hater. You do seem like a lot of liberal tree huggers I know though. Tell me, did you join the protests against the WTO in Washington? Are you a Sierra Club activist? Did you vote for Al Gore?

Just curious phil.

50 posted on 03/24/2002 8:06:17 PM PST by Nachum
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To: Nachum
You do seem like a lot of liberal tree huggers I know though. Tell me, did you join the protests against the WTO in Washington? Are you a Sierra Club activist?

No. . . Quite to the contrary. Which puts me again in a tight fix . . . The envir-wakos are a hot topic of discussion here on FreeRepublic. I have ranted my share of rants over the seeming replacement of Communism by the Greens and enviros. But who are the movers and shakers? One of the MAJOR components of the environmental movement is the "heal the earth" aspect of Judaism. It gets sticky!

I WAS in Oregon last summer assisting the farmers at the Headgates . . .

KLAMATH Headgates - Bye bye Park Police - Hello BLM Cops

Krunching Klamath . . . A Numbers Game in Progress

51 posted on 03/24/2002 8:25:55 PM PST by Phil V.
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To: John Locke
To say that Israel occupies the Temple Mount "illegally" is quite ridiculous. Israel occupies the territories by right of conquest in war. War by definition begins where legality ends. Israel was attacked by the surrounding Arab countries in 1967. Was that "illegal" too? Israel repulsed its attackers and took certain territories from them to make its borders more defensible, and to recover ancient holy sites of the Jewish people, from which Jews had been barred by the previous Arab occupiers.

Furthermore, Israel did not take any land from the Palestinians. The Palestinians had no land and have never had any. Israel took land from Jordan, Syria, and Egypt, which had occupied them for nearly twenty years. Was it also "illegal" for Jordan and Egypt to control the territories? Why do you suppose there was no international or Palestinian outcry about that "illegality"?

Before that, these lands were under primarily British control; the British took them from the Turks; the Turks took them from the old Arab Caliphate, which took them from the Byzantines. You can take it back further if you want, but then there will be no Arabs in the picture at all. Were all those siezures of the land "illegal"? How far back shall we go to set it straight? What you will not find in this history, by the way, is any point at which the land was held "legally" by "Palestinians."

By every traditional understanding of the law of war, territory acquired in the prosecution of a just defensive war against an aggressor is rightly acquired. What is remarkable is not that Israel still holds the territories, but that it has not simply annexed them, as Jordan annexed the West Bank in - what was it? - 1952 or there abouts.

52 posted on 03/24/2002 9:57:10 PM PST by Southern Federalist
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To: Phil V.
Your post on Jewish sacrifice in incomprehensible but if you go to the following thread you will see Muslims cutting up children as a sacrifice. Quite horrifying and disgusting. Barbaric.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/652614/posts

53 posted on 03/25/2002 6:06:22 AM PST by scratchgolfer
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To: Phil V.
Curious. By a previous post you were linking to a bunch of very left leaning, tree hugging, liberal Jews. Their ideas of Kaballah are completely false and they use them to substanitate a view which corresponds to a pacifist group in Israel called "Peace Now" (Shalom Achshav).

And by your involvement with opposite group in Klamath Falls it is almost an opposite point of view. I guess that might be chalked up to a thinking person's perceptions, but it is indeed curious.

As a rule, IMHO pacifism in the middle east has never worked. Matter of fact, a very good argument can be made that the Jews' troubles only multiplied as negotiations have begun and continued. We have to agree to disagree on this.

54 posted on 03/25/2002 7:21:41 AM PST by Nachum
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To: John Locke
First of all, there is NO illegal occupied territory. Read 242 and the comments of the authors. Israel has done nothing illegal and occupied nothing. If Israel had the will it could cede a square millimeter and fulfil 242.

The Temple Mount is the Temple mount no game playing allowed. It has been a sacred Jewish site for about 4000 years. If anyone is illegally occupying the site, it would be the Muslim entity.

But why not be honest. You think Jews have no claim on any territory. Have you insisted that France and Germany return land that was German in history and culture for a thousand years? Why is it only Israel that must pay the price of United Nations Neo-Morality?

Your handle is a disgrace to objectivists everywhere.

55 posted on 03/25/2002 9:04:55 AM PST by rebdov
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To: Phil V.
Well done Phil !!!!
56 posted on 03/25/2002 9:09:54 AM PST by SCOOGIE
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To: Phil V.
You did call this right.

Israeli police storm Al-Aqsa sanctuary!

57 posted on 03/29/2002 5:50:55 AM PST by LarryLied
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To: LarryLied; veronica; dennisw; BenF

Pictures from the Pesach Sacrifice - 1998

  The Sacrifical Lamb
 
 

Preparing the Sacrifice 
 
 

The Sacrifice 
 

 
Main Page

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 
Amazin' how pivotal TEXAS is to this great day, Sunday!


58 posted on 03/29/2002 6:34:24 PM PST by Phil V.
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