Posted on 03/27/2002 12:29:07 PM PST by Oldeconomybuyer
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| A victim of the Netanya hotel bomb blast, with his face covered in blood, sits in an ambulance arriving at the Kfar Saba hospital Wednesday, March 27, 2002. A suicide bomber blew himself up Wednesday in the hotel dining room in this Israeli resort as guests gathered for a Passover Seder, the ritual evening meal ushering in the Jewish holiday. Police said 15 people were killed and more than 100 wounded in one of the deadliest attacks in 18 months of fighting. (AP Photo/Gadi Kabalo) ***ISRAEL OUT*** |
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| A policeman stands near a line of bodies outside a hotel in the Israeli seaside resort of Netanya March 27, 2002 after it was attacked. The Islamic militant group Hamas claimed responsibility on Wednesday for the suicide bombing of an Israeli hotel that killed at least 15 people. REUTERS/Havakuk Levison |
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| Police carry a body after a bomb exploded in Netanya, Israel March 27, 2002. A suicide bomber blew himself up in the dining room of an Israeli coastal hotel on Wednesday evening, killing 15 people and wounding more than 100, police and medical rescue workers said. REUTERS/Laszlo Balogh |
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| Rescue workers look over the damaged hotel in the Israeli seaside resort of Netanya March 27, 2002. The Islamic militant group Hamas claimed responsibility on Wednesday for the suicide bombing of an Israeli hotel that killed at least 15 people. REUTERS/Havakuk Levison |
Palestinian militant group claims responsibility for suicide bombing (AP)
The Islamic militant who blew himself up Wednesday in the dining hall of an Israeli hotel in Netanya once worked in hotels in the Mediterranean resort town, Palestinian security sources said.
- Mar 27 3:46 PM ET
U.S. Condemns Suicide Bombing in Israel (Reuters)
The United States condemned the bombing which killed 15 people in the Israeli town of Netanya on Wednesday and said it showed the need for Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat to crack down on militants.
- Mar 27 3:26 PM ET
Explosion at Israeli hotel during Passover; 15 killed (AP)
A suicide bomber blew himself up Wednesday evening in a hotel dining room in the Israeli coastal resort of Netanya as guests gathered there for a Passover Seder, the ritual meal ushering in the Jewish holiday. Police said 15 people were killed and more than 100 wounded.
- Mar 27 1:37 PM ET
No, that "whose distant, distant, distant ancestors have the better claim?" stuff just won't do it.
The problem with the 'moral equivalence' folks is that the Israelis try (so far as I can tell) to focus on those dirtbags causing the problem, while the Palestinians seek out innocents at pizza parlors and the like. I carry no water for the people who self-identify as Jews. I am not going to make a title search to that land. The Brits probably made a mistake putting them into the middle of Arab land in 1919. But no one else wanted to take them -- and here's a flash --they're there and have been for 80 years.
And I am sorry but I cannot sympathize with suicide bombers who seek out kids and civilians. I am with the Jews now. Let them off the leash. Last one standing gets the land.
I see they have the same type of politicians over there that we get over here.
On another note. I see the dates are before re-colonization began (1948 right) so were these actaully transfers of title or what? If they had title to sell how was it listed, such and such location, such and such acreage, In the country to Be named? I thought that by the logic posted here they didn't actually own land because they weren't contained within an established gubments boundries.
EBUCK
For many years, the moshava Hadera, whose lands had been bought in 1891, was not troubled by land disputes and by claims of displaced people. In 1929, the neighboring Arabs began filing claims on lands that the moshava, had allegedly stolen from them. The Arabs from Fuqara filed a claim for 5,000 dunam; those from Arab ed-Demair claimed 150 dunam; and the Nufeiat Arabs seized a tract of 1,200 dunam. The latter claimed that the land belonged to them, and they were adamant in their refusal to leave. The claims of the Fuqara and el-Damair Arabs were disallowed in court. The trial on the claim of the Nufeiat Bedouins was held on July 24-31, 1930. The Court found against them. They appealed, and a Court of Appeals with A. Plunkett, 'Ali Hasne Effendi and A. De Frites as judges heard the case. Judgment was rendered in Nablus on December 5, 1930 denying the appeal. A copy of the decision was forwarded to the Colonial Office, which received ongoing information on the situation in the country in general, and especially on the cases before the Land Court. The Nufeiat Bedouins, according to the P.E.F. Map of 1878, were totally new to the area north of Hadera - they had been encamped south of the Wadi Hawarith. Nevertheless they persisted in claiming that the land sold in 1891 belonged to them. The Bedouins might have abandoned their claim, had it not been for the support of the Waqf and the Supreme Muslim Council [political Islamic organs during the British Mandate].
Another methodology of the Arabs, in their attempt to rewrite history on the ground and extort the land from the Jews would occur, especially in Urban areas, when the rich Urban Arab absentee landlords would sell land to the Jews. What occurred was that the Arabs would sell the land in legitimate transactions to the Jews and the Arab landlord would then encourage and foment other Arabs to attack the Jews with the hopeful expectation the Jews would vacate the newly purchased land. Avneri describes the typical scenario (p.179):
The Arabs never charged that the Jewish urban community in any way interfered with the development of the Arab towns or that it displaced Arabs from the existing towns. The reason no such charge was made was that the city plots sold to the Jews were sold by rich urban Arabs, who were often themselves the spokesmen of the Arab nationalist movement. Some had even organized the gangs of hoodlums who attacked the Jewish quarters in the cities - the very sections which they themselves had sold to the Jews.
Many times the Arabs simply did not respect the rule of law and blatantly flouted it notwithstanding the legitimate land purchases by the Jews. Example (p. 188):
The Government had sold land in Ashrafiya to some prominent Arab families who could prove, as it were, that they had previously owned the land in the area. In 1929 the P.I.C.A. (Jewish Committee involved in land purchasing) bought 2,000 dunam of land from these families. The Jewish National Fund acquired an additional 4,300 dunam. During the period of the riots [1936-39 Grand Mufti led Arab Islamic riots against Jews, British, and moderate Arabs] local Arabs seized theses tracts of land and held them. In 1940, after the seige on Jewish settlements had been lifted, the P.I.C.A. and the Jewish National Fund sought to reassert their lawful ownership. The Arab squatters made various claims to title and to alleged rights in the real property. Their claims were heard, as was customary, in the land court, and were all disallowed. The Jews, pursuant to the Court's finding, sought to plow the lands, but the Arabs did all they could to hinder them and refused to leave the area in dispute.
The beneficiaries to State owned land from the British, were largely the Arabs. The British had sold scant State owned land to the Jews which clearly was in abrogation of Article 6 of the Mandate. However, to give you an idea of how the Arabs squandered a lot of this land and were unable, unlike the Jews, to bring life from the land, in the end giving up and selling the land to the Jews, Avneri gives one example (pp. 187-188):
The Arab National Company of Nablus was one of the beneficiaries of the Government's generous land grants in the Beit-Shean Valley. It received a tract of 1,200 dunam for intensive cultivation, to serve as a model for the Bedouins in the Valley. At the same time that the Arab leadership was carrying on its violent struggle against the Jews, other Arab leaders sought to evolve a constructive policy, which would not only prevent the sale of land to Jews but would improve the lot of the fellah as well. Thus the Arab People's Fund and the Arab National Company provided the fellaheen with instructors to teach them how to grow bananas. The crops failed. The fellaheen, on the advice of their instructors, uprooted the bananas and planted citrus goves, and also tried to raise vegetables. These projects failed as well. In the end these lands were sold to the Jewish National Fund.
Arafat had the opportunity to take a good deal from Barak, including a significant concessions of of territory occupied by Israel since the 1967 war. He chose not to take the offer, his rhetoric has conditioned his followers to reject any compromise. He's in an untenable situation. If he had accepted the compromise deal, he would have faced revolt from his followers. But in rejecting the deal and ratcheting up the level of violence, he's put his followers into a postion that they cannot win. As the polarization continues, there will be less and less support for negotiations from the Israeli's, and eventually, this violence will provoke an all out war that the Palestinians cannot win. It's ugly, it's brutal, and it will get far worse before it will get better.
But the fact is, the state of Isreal DOES exist. And the State of Israel has the right to defend itself against those who would attack it's citizens. The Israeli government has shown significantly more restraint than I would have anticipated, and I think the tide of world opinion is turning against the Palestinians. It was up to Arafat to prove he was a visonary leader, not just another politician. He failed.
Palestinians are the ones who have no right to be there! And they continue to remain in the region causing murder and mayhem because of politics not any justifiable ties to the region.
EBUCK
As far as title/grants and such... I don't know how it was recorded, or who kept the records. I just gave you the quickly available references to the fact that the Palestinians were not "thrown" off the land.
What you probably don't know is that in 1948, when the entire Arab world was declaring war on Israel, with the combined armies at the borders, a WHOLE LOT of "Palestinians" who were living in Israel CHOSE to leave the country to avoid the war. They did not stay to fight, but cast their lot with their "brothers". It was "obvious" to those Palestinians that the Israeli's would be wipe off the face of the earth in a few days, and they would be able to return and claim not only thier land back, but also the posessions of the dead Jews.
To that I say... "You don't stay to fight, you don't get the land". I have no sympathy for those Palestinians who cast their lot with the wrong side. They abandoned the land, no way should they get it back by crying and whining.
As far as the 1967 borders... Israel did not start that war... but they did finish it. That is how land is gained or lost. So, they Palestinians or ANY of the arab states have no claim on that land at all... I have no idea why the world is putting up with the Saudi plan. If that were the case, then we will need to redraw all the national borders in all the world, since they all came from land aquisition thorugh warfare.
I am tired of you.
In the ovens of death camps? That is what Tacis meant. The tragedy is that this war brings the worst out of both sides (and sometimes out of spectators).
Yes the Israeli State does exist. Yes, Israel does have a right to defend itself. Yes, more restraint than I would have shown. And yes, the palestinians are burrning bridges faster than they can build them. Question, hypothetically removing suicide bombings mind you, do you think that the palestinians have a right to attempt to retake the land? Do you think they have a legitimate complaint? That is what I have been spouting about this whole thread. Do they have a legitimate beef?
EBUCK
Is there the Israeli nation if Jewish nation exists?
EBUCK
EBUCK
EBUCK
It is quite possible that I interpreted your response wrongly... it seemed to me that you were not "genuine".
In any case... yes, I think that is exactly what they did. Some sold their land (and were proud of it), while others gave it up with the expectation of the Israeli defeat. They are now crying foul because they bet on the wrong horse.
Please continue to educate yourself.
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