Not Going to Take It Anymore

FreeRepublic ^ | 4/01/02 | Ben A. Conservative

[B. A. Conservative]

How many times have you heard this statement? Have you used this phrase yourself? Is FreeRepublic just a support group (form of group therapy) for burned-out or recovering conservatives much like the function served by AA for alcoholics?

I have a list of questions to which I don't have the answers, but believe that these are questions that deserve answers. If you have asked yourself more than a few of these questions or even entertained the thoughts that these questions express, then I am inviting you to participate in an exchange of ideas. I hope that enough Freepers will provide their thoughts in order that we can use your answers to end and reverse the damage that is being done to our country and our way of life by Democrats and other liberals.

I intend to provide the complete list as part of this post. I am going to post each question one at a time for its own thread. Each posting of a question will be several days apart to allow time for those willing to participate. I hope that anyone willing to participate will hold their replies to specific questions until each question is asked as a topic of its own with the first question to be posted on Thursday. I am hoping that you will use replies to this post as a means of attracting Freepers whom you know might have an interest in this discussion and the direction in which it goes. Here is the List:

1. Is the United States broken?
2. If it is broken, can it be fixed?
3. If it can be fixed, how long will it take?
4. Who will fix it?
5. Will there be opposition to fixing it?
6. Can the opposition be defeated within a reasonable period of time?
7. How long is reasonable?
8. How realistic are your expectations about whether it can be fixed?
9. How realistic are your expectations with regard to time?
10. If it can't be fixed, have you considered other solutions regarding your disappointment with the present state of affairs in the United States?
11. Could other countries offer the freedom you seek?
12. Are there other existing countries that offer more freedom than what is currently offered in the United States?
13. If one state were to secede and offer a Constitutional Republic like the one we had, would you consider living there?
14. How would the United States respond to one state's elective and voluntary peaceable declaration of its own independence from the United States?
15. Would the United States be willing to use military action including the killing of peaceful secessionists?
16. If a Boris Yeltsin took a stand in the state capitol, would the United States send in the tanks and kill him and/or his compatriots?
17. If the United States were actually willing to use force to surpress a state's secession, would you still want to live in the United States?
18. Would that be the final straw proving to any "doubting Thomas"es that the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution of the United States are now empty meaningless words that no longer have validity as ideas?
19. Would this be the proof to some that the United States is now no different from any other form of tyranny?
20. If one state successfully and peaceably seceded, would others follow?
21. Would we see groups of states organizing as regional republics competeing for citizens by offering more freedom than their neighboring nation/states?
22. Could our freedoms and liberties be restored more certainly and more quickly by forcing governments to compete with one another in an effort to please its citizens and/or prospective citizens?
23. Does the United States have a monopoly on government?
24. Is the military superiority that the United States possesses over the rest of the world sufficient reason for its citizens to sacrifice their freedoms in the interests of security?
25. Could the military strength and superiority of the United States be obtained through the equivalent of a North American Nato?
26. How can we restore our freedoms without secession?

    I suspect most Freepers share my frustrations, but have not let their thinking run as far afield as I have let mine. Quite frankly, I am not at all happy with my answers to these questions. And while this may prove to be a fool's errand, I assure you it is not intended as an April Fools. As is so common on this site, feel free to Freep This Poll.

[teeman8r]

He who defends everything, defends nothing.-- Frederick the Great

Nothing ventured, nothing lost-- frederick the adequate

[ffusco]

neo-cons have no coherent metapyhsical ideological framework. You mean like Pragmatism?

[JohnGalt]

Pragmatism with a capital P? You must be joking.

Pragmatism, the philosophy, looked to avoid the politicizing of the language which neo-Cons have no problem doing, backing wars in foreign lands without the Congress declaring war.

Neo-Cons back the New Deal (socialism) in spirit.

Should we go on about other anti-intellectual arguments the neo-Cons put forward?

[WhiteGuy]

Is the United States broken?
Yes
If it is broken, can it be fixed?
Yes
If it can be fixed, how long will it take?
4 years
Who will fix it?
Those who believe in the Constitution
Will there be opposition to fixing it?
Yes
Can the opposition be defeated within a reasonable period of time?
Yes
How long is reasonable?
4 years
How realistic are your expectations about whether it can be fixed?
Sadly, not very....
How realistic are your expectations with regard to time?
Sadly, not very....
If it can't be fixed, have you considered other solutions regarding your disappointment with the present state of affairs in the United States?
Yes
Could other countries offer the freedom you seek?
No
Are there other existing countries that offer more freedom than what is currently offered in the United States?
No
If one state were to secede and offer a Constitutional Republic like the one we had, would you consider living there?
I'd leave today.
How would the United States respond to one state's elective and voluntary peaceable declaration of its own independence from the United States?
Remember the Civil War?
Would the United States be willing to use military action including the killing of peaceful secessionists?
See above
If a Boris Yeltsin took a stand in the state capitol, would the United States send in the tanks and kill him and/or his compatriots?
Yes, Remember Waco?
If the United States were actually willing to use force to surpress a state's secession, would you still want to live in the United States?
No
Would that be the final straw proving to any "doubting Thomas"es that the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution of the United States are now empty meaningless words that no longer have validity as ideas?
Yes
Would this be the proof to some that the United States is now no different from any other form of tyranny?
I already suspect this to be the case
If one state successfully and peaceably seceded, would others follow?
Absolutely
Would we see groups of states organizing as regional republics competeing for citizens by offering more freedom than their neighboring nation/states?
Perhaps, not a bad idea....
Could our freedoms and liberties be restored more certainly and more quickly by forcing governments to compete with one another in an effort to please its citizens and/or prospective citizens?
Yes, That is the whole point of Amendment X - (largely ignored)
Does the United States have a monopoly on government?
No
Is the military superiority that the United States possesses over the rest of the world sufficient reason for its citizens to sacrifice their freedoms in the interests of security?
No
Could the military strength and superiority of the United States be obtained through the equivalent of a North American Nato?
Maybe?....
How can we restore our freedoms without secession?
Not as long as we continue to "elect" leaders who do not follow the constitution.

[sixmil]

Not sure how I found this thread, but I am glad I did since there seem to be some great minds at work here. Sadly, my verbal skills are average compared to my analytical skills, and I avoided reading books until I got out of college. With that disclaimer out of the way, I think that the sad truth is that the politicians we rag on so much are mostly a mirror image of the people they represent. I know it sounds trite, but we need to do a real thorough self inspection and fix ourselves first. In a kind of ironic, and wasteful way, 9/11 has served as a partial catalyst for this in my opinion. As far as what we can do politically, I am even more pessimistic. Sometimes I think that this is just the natural cycle of all political systems, and we are powerless to stop it. One thing I do know is that this republic was turned into a democracy in 1913 when the 17th Amendment was ratified, and it didn't take too long for Ben Franklin's warning to come to fruition. Congress was pretty busy that year, they also ratified the income tax amendment.

[Mikey]

"Would we see groups of states organizing as regional republics competing for citizens by offering more freedom than their neighboring nation/states? "

Actually the state doesn't & can't offer anyone anything pertaining to "freedom". Everyone is born free, its man that enslaves man. Everyone on this planet has God given unalienable rights. In these united States we are supposed to have a Federal Constitution that restricts the powers of that Federal government.
A lot of people don't seem to understand one thing, the Constitution for the United States was never meant to be for each individual state. That's why each state has its own constitution that's supposed to secure the rights of the people, not restrict them.

"The Constitution was ordained and established by the people of the U nited States forthemselves, for their own government, and not for the government of the individual States. Each State established a constitution for itself, and in that constitution provided such limitations and restrictions on the powers of its particular government as its judgment dictated. The people of the U nited S tates framed such a government for the U nited S tates as they supposed best adapted to their situation, and best calculated to promote their interests ."

This quote was taken from a book called
"DOCUMENTS AND READINGS IN AMERICAN GOVERNMENT. NATION, STATE, AND LOCAL."
By
John Mabry Mathews
professor of political science in the university of illinois

And

Clarence Arthur Berdahl
Assistant professor of political science in the university of illinois.
1928. Page 79

So one sees the Federal Constitution has nothing to do with the states and the Federal government hasn't the power to force the people of the individual states to do anything, unless the people (by their own ignorance) allow it.

"If one state were to secede and offer a Constitutional Republic like the one we had, would you consider living there?"

Save a small chunk of land for me.

[thrcanbonly1]

As long as a hundred of us remain alive we will never be subject to tyrannical domination, because it is not for glory or for riches or honours that we fight, but for freedom alone which no worthy man loses except with his life. Taken from the “Declaration of Arbroath” 1320

[JohnGalt]

bump

[Brian Allen]

Wow! Bookmarked Bump. [Thank you!]

[JavaTheHutt]

Bump!

[GOV'T MULE]

A BLOATing bump back to you.

[newgeezer]

I didn't read anywhere in the mission statement which says FreeRepublic is a group therapy session for hopeless conservatives who think all is lost to fascism and socialism and nothing can be done to get our freedoms back short of a bloodbath. The ones being trolls are those who promulgate and proselytize wacko militia nutcase ideologies.

So, what can we offer said trolls as a workable alternative? "Go Pat Go" seems to have failed. W's doing all he can to tread water until '04. The sheeple are hopelessly tied to cheap oil and their 401Ks. How are we to accomplish your "cultural jihad," Cultural Jihad?

[biblewonk]

If you answer no to the first question I suppose it means you are a sheeple or something.

[newgeezer]

If you answer no to the first question I suppose it means you are a sheeple or something.

If you answer "no" to my first question -- you replied to my #52 --you may wish to reread the question. ;-)

[newgeezer]

If the Tenth Amendment were obeyed, this country could have 50 Republics governing in 50 unique and diverse ways, all within the protection and constraints of the Constitution.

If pigs could fly...

Or -- let me guess -- are you saying it's better that the Tenth Amendment is not enforced?

[Ken H]

The point I was making is that the Tenth Amendment should be obeyed.

The Federal government has taken over the governing of the domestic lives of American citizens. It has become a smothering, corrupt bureaucracy that stifles experimentation and initiative.

State governments were intended to govern our domestic affairs, with the exception of a few enumerated powers given to the central government.

Like the radio ads say, "Our diversity is our strength":)

[Joe Hadenuf]

I've come to believe that the vast majority of people here use FR to let off steam ... and they like to hear themselves sound "patriotic." I've also discovered that many here who call themselves conservative really are nothing of the sort. They are neo-conservatives.

Great post and link. You may be aware that I have spoken out against our immigration "free for all" since coming to the FR about fours ago. Since then, a few on the FR attempted to distract and divert what I, and a few others were saying by using works like nazi and racist etc.

It was an attempt to put a stick through the spokes of the topic and issue, to paint those who spoke out in a very bad light.

Yes, I and a few others have vented steam regarding this titanic issue, but I believe it did some good, as now, those nasty, ugly accusation have all receded and almost disappeared. I believe this venting of steam and debate on this most dangerous issue caused many to become aware and see beyond the smoke and distractions.

However, as we all talk, vent steam and debate these issues, the ever reaching arm of socialist, big government, monster, like the immigration "free for all" will eventually consume our freedoms, our sovereignty, and our entire nation.

[newgeezer]

Right you are. Thanks for the clarification.

So, as I started to say before:

Whereas...

1. the Supreme Court has shirked their responsibility to enforce Amendment X,
2. Congress has shirked their responsibility to impeach SCOTUS judges,
3. the sheeple know or care nothing about the Constitution, and
4. the sheeple love their incumbents in Congress,

...what's left to do, if not secession (been there, tried that, the sheeple had other ideas) or revolution?

[CWRWinger]

Whether we go with secession of fix the existing government, there are a few things everyone can do with their own lives to ensure liberty survives:

Separate from the corrupting pop culture (movies, videos, rock music, pornography, etc.) Reject it, Walk away from it. Everytime a movie ticket is bought, a video rented or purchased, part of that money goes to the DNC, our enemy.

Separate your children from the pop culture.

Place your children in a home school program. Pull them out of public schools, NOW.

Get out of debt. Tear up the charge cards and credit cards. Pay them off and don't allow any interest charges. Only pay cash for a good used car, if a car is needed.

Study the Constitution. Pass the insights and information along to others.

I'm sure there are other things which can be added to this list. I heard these action items at a conservative meeting a couple of years ago. They make sense to me. It's going to take self discipline and sacrifice if this country is going to be turned around or if we secede.

[steveegg]

Short answers (I'll give fuller explanations on the individual threads):

Is the United States broken? Yes.
If it is broken, can it be fixed? Yes.
If it can be fixed, how long will it take? Best guess; 14 years.
Who will fix it? Us and like-minded people.
Will there be opposition to fixing it? Definitely
Can the opposition be defeated within a reasonable period of time? IMHO, "reasonableness" is not something to be considered in terms of length of time. See my answer to the following, linked question.
How long is reasonable? As short as it takes; I would like to enjoy some semblance of liberty in my lifetime, and the longer I can enjoy it, the better.
How realistic are your expectations about whether it can be fixed? No better than 1 to 3 odds, but we must try.
How realistic are your expectations with regard to time? Hopefully, I'm realistic. It will take 8 unbroken years of conservative leadership (not just conservatism, and not just leadership) to get us to the point where freedom has a chance. IMHO, so long as this world exists, we will never cease to be under assault.
If it can't be fixed, have you considered other solutions regarding your disappointment with the present state of affairs in the United States? I've started to.
Could other countries offer the freedom you seek? Possible, but unlikely
Are there other existing countries that offer more freedom than what is currently offered in the United States? There used to be. Australia was once another beacon of freedom.
If one state were to secede and offer a Constitutional Republic like the one we had, would you consider living there? When do I move?
How would the United States respond to one state's elective and voluntary peaceable declaration of its own independence from the United States? Completely dependent on 2 factors; which state it is (they might let a state where there is no major economic or military presence go) and who is in charge.
Would the United States be willing to use military action including the killing of peaceful secessionists? You betcha.
If a Boris Yeltsin took a stand in the state capitol, would the United States send in the tanks and kill him and/or his compatriots? If the right kind of leader is in DC, and the state is not economically or militarily vital to the US, no. Otherwise, yes.
If the United States were actually willing to use force to surpress a state's secession, would you still want to live in the United States? I hate to use the word "depends", but it depends on why that state is leaving. If it were for Constitutional reasons, I'd seek to bail on the US. If it were to set up a system of government that further violated the principles of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution, I'd stay in the US.
Would that be the final straw proving to any "doubting Thomas"es that the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution of the United States are now empty meaningless words that no longer have validity as ideas? No more than the current body of evidence is the final straw to the doubting Thomases.
Would this be the proof to some that the United States is now no different from any other form of tyranny? I've already seen enough to know that the US is a tyranny. See above for whether I think that this specific act would convince any of the sheeple.
If one state successfully and peaceably seceded, would others follow? Yes.
Would we see groups of states organizing as regional republics competeing for citizens by offering more freedom than their neighboring nation/states? This is an intriguing idea, one that would appeal to us, but I don't quite see too much competition in this arena.
Could our freedoms and liberties be restored more certainly and more quickly by forcing governments to compete with one another in an effort to please its citizens and/or prospective citizens? Nice idea, but there's too much other stuff on the buffet table for this to work.
Does the United States have a monopoly on government? No, but it does have supremacy.
Is the military superiority that the United States possesses over the rest of the world sufficient reason for its citizens to sacrifice their freedoms in the interests of security? Hell no.
Could the military strength and superiority of the United States be obtained through the equivalent of a North American Nato? Probably
How can we restore our freedoms without secession? The only way is a systematic and sustained election of those who believe in following the Constitution.