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Ohio Concealed Weapons Ban Unconstitutional
Hamilton County Court of Appeals ^ | 4/10/02 | Hamilton Cty. Ct. of Appeals

Posted on 04/10/2002 8:26:53 AM PDT by Kaisersrsic

The Ohio Court of Appeals has affirmed the decision in Klein v. Simon -- finding that Ohio's ban on concealed carry violates the Ohio Constitution.

http://www.hamilton-co.org/appealscourt/Decisions/c-020012.doc


TOPICS: Extended News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: banglist; concealed; guns; ohio
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Congratulations to the folks who worked on this! Those of us who have been watching appreciate your efforts. If my link to the decision does not work, help please.
1 posted on 04/10/2002 8:26:54 AM PDT by Kaisersrsic
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To: Kaisersrsic; *bang_list
±
2 posted on 04/10/2002 8:30:52 AM PDT by Sir Gawain
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To: AnnaZ; HangFire; Lady Jenn; Kithlyara; AZ Spartacus; feinswinesuksass; abigail2...
bump
3 posted on 04/10/2002 8:32:19 AM PDT by lowbridge
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To: Kaisersrsic
The Court says: "We are not England, where hunting was once the preserve of the landed rich, we are America, where the Pilgrams shot their Thanksgiving turkeys." That makes it sound like this was the right three judge panel to hear this case!
4 posted on 04/10/2002 8:34:43 AM PDT by Kaisersrsic
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To: Kaisersrsic
YAHOO !!!
5 posted on 04/10/2002 8:35:51 AM PDT by muggs
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To: Kaisersrsic
Congrats to all of you Buckeyes.

I especially like the part in the decision where it states "We are not a country where power is maintained by people with guns over people without guns."

6 posted on 04/10/2002 8:35:58 AM PDT by P8riot
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To: Kaisersrsic
Eat your hearts out, gun grabbers.....
7 posted on 04/10/2002 8:37:32 AM PDT by tracer
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To: tracer
Terrific News!!
8 posted on 04/10/2002 8:38:41 AM PDT by Molly Pitcher
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To: Kaisersrsic
This is great news for Ohio. We are working hard here in Minnesota for shall issue CCW, it's a long tough fight.

Congratulations and good work Ohio.

9 posted on 04/10/2002 8:40:16 AM PDT by RJL
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To: RJL
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10 posted on 04/10/2002 8:42:55 AM PDT by Dick Bachert
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To: RJL
BUCK-EYES!

BUCK-EYES!

BUCK-EYES!

BUCK-EYES!


11 posted on 04/10/2002 8:44:52 AM PDT by rdb3
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To: Kaisersrsic
A great day for the great State of Ohio!
12 posted on 04/10/2002 8:46:39 AM PDT by Destructor
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To: RJL
In case you missed the posting on the Local Board:

next MN chapter meeting:
Roseville Perkins - Just South of 36 on Snelling
April 20th - About 9:30 AM

Hope to see you there!

Dave

13 posted on 04/10/2002 8:48:06 AM PDT by Johnny Gage
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To: Kaisersrsic ; Deadeye Division
Great.

There is only on effective way to get a Vermont law passed....through the courts. Since if the laws are struck down, there is no CCW law.

Now, does Ohio have a premption law that says all gun control laws have to be from the state and not localities? If not, get that passed pronto. It is saving us in Michigan.

14 posted on 04/10/2002 8:52:03 AM PDT by Dan from Michigan
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To: all

BTW = KUDOS to the Second Amendment Foundation.

They are ones behind this.

15 posted on 04/10/2002 8:53:25 AM PDT by Dan from Michigan
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To: Dick Bachert
Great brochure.

I'm going to steal it to give to a couple of teachers I know.

Don't shoot!

16 posted on 04/10/2002 8:54:03 AM PDT by jackliberty
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To: lowbridge

17 posted on 04/10/2002 8:56:46 AM PDT by Joe Brower
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To: LasVegasDave; Conspiratoristo; pontiac;
2A Buckeye Bump.
18 posted on 04/10/2002 9:01:01 AM PDT by NeoCaveman
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To: Kaisersrsic
Yes, its now binding throughout the state, not just in the county it was originally in effect. Ohio is now an "open carry" state. Congratulations to everyone for their hard work on this. It must be a glum day for Sarah Brady and the gun banners. Bwahahaha!!!
19 posted on 04/10/2002 9:02:09 AM PDT by goldstategop
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To: lowbridge; Kaisersrsic; Sir Gawain
HIP HIP HOORAY!

Thanks for the ping, Lowbridge! This is absolutely wonderful.

20 posted on 04/10/2002 9:03:38 AM PDT by Slip18
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To: Dan from Michigan
That's right Dan. SAF is doing a lot of heavy lifting for us.

Anybody wondering how they can support our Second Ammendment rights can get in touch with the Second Ammendment Foundation saf.org is thier website and they are behind the Emerson cas as well.

21 posted on 04/10/2002 9:04:51 AM PDT by TheErnFormerlyKnownAsBig
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To: Joe Brower
One for the good guys. Hamilton County, Ohio, seems to have just become Vermont-Style concealed carry free.
22 posted on 04/10/2002 9:04:59 AM PDT by patton
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To: Kaisersrsic
Awright! Now, can someone explain what this really means in a legal & practical manner, especially for non-residents?
23 posted on 04/10/2002 9:10:17 AM PDT by ctdonath2
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To: Kaisersrsic
"finding that Ohio's ban on concealed carry violates the Ohio Constitution"

What does Ohios constitution say about it? How does Ohios version of the 2nd read?

24 posted on 04/10/2002 9:10:34 AM PDT by gnarledmaw
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To: Kaisersrsic
Now let's get a few states to amend their constitutions to reflect the wordage found in Ohio's ... and push the gun grabbers even further back toward total irrelevance.
25 posted on 04/10/2002 9:11:18 AM PDT by mgc1122
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To: goldstategop
Cincinnati radio (WLW) is reporting that the ban on concealed carry has been lifted in Hamilton County (pending likely appeals). How does the court's ruling affect the rest of the state? Just curious if you know?
26 posted on 04/10/2002 9:11:23 AM PDT by vortigern
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To: ctdonath2
I'll bump that!
27 posted on 04/10/2002 9:12:02 AM PDT by Travis McGee
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To: goldstategop
ohio isn't an open carry state - this only applies to one county, where, if the injunction is lifted, concealed carry is now legal, without a permit (a-la vermont style concealed carry)
28 posted on 04/10/2002 9:17:10 AM PDT by good_ash
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To: Kaisersrsic
Sarah Brady comments: GAKKK!!!!!
29 posted on 04/10/2002 9:18:01 AM PDT by SpinyNorman
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To: goldstategop
Judge Ruehlman's ruling applied only to Hamilton County --- that is to the environs of Cincinnati and surrounding communities in the county. The Ohio Appeals Court which granted the previous stay of the ruling has now lifted it AND affirmed the trial court's ruling and now the decision is binding statewide, not just in Hamilton County. This means Ohio citizens can openly carry firearms on their persons without fear of arrest, indictment, prosecution, and conviction. Today is truly a day a blow has been struck FOR the Constitution of Ohio AND the Second Amendment. Ohio now joins the ranks of states in which its possible to carry weapons without having to rely on the county sheriff or police chief to grant that precious permit. In a free society people should have the right to protect their persons and their homes. The Ohio Appeals Court affirmed this fundamental right. Now the politicians of Ohio including Governor Robert Taft, have to decide whether to obey the Constitution or submit to the likes of Sarah Brady and Josh Sugarman.
30 posted on 04/10/2002 9:18:50 AM PDT by goldstategop
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To: good_ash
I think the Stat Appeals Court decision extended the ruling throughout the state. Whether the State Legislature decides to adopt a shall issue concealed carry permit law remains to be seen. However whether they do or do not act, the fact remains Ohioans can now carry guns on their persons without a permit, whether openly or concealed. And yes we can expect the gun banners to come forth with a barrage of hysterical propaganda about how all this will turn Ohio into a shooting gallery. It hasn't happened in any of the other 34 states in which you can be issued a permit or in Vermont where none has ever been needed.
31 posted on 04/10/2002 9:23:22 AM PDT by goldstategop
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To: goldstategop; Cyber Liberty
I'll bump this again. This is exciting!
32 posted on 04/10/2002 9:24:15 AM PDT by Slip18
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To: Slip18
Hey, you in "Hog Heaven" yet?
33 posted on 04/10/2002 9:25:04 AM PDT by Cyber Liberty
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To: goldstategop
No, no, no - concealed carry is now legal, open cary is not. Go read the decision.

And I do not know Ohio law well enough to be certain, but most appelate court decisions are binding only in the court's district.

That would mean that concealed carry is only legal in hamilton county.

34 posted on 04/10/2002 9:29:03 AM PDT by patton
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To: gnarledmaw
The Ohio Constitution, Section 4, Article I, states, “The people have the right to bear arms for their defense and security * * *.”
35 posted on 04/10/2002 9:31:04 AM PDT by Rustynailww
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To: Rustynailww
Thanks, right after you posted that I found the full version of that article...

§ 1.04 Bearing arms; standing armies; military powers (1851)

The people have the right to bear arms for their defense and security; but standing armies, in time of peace, are dangerous to liberty, and shall not be kept up; and the military shall be in strict subordination to the civil power.

36 posted on 04/10/2002 9:33:15 AM PDT by gnarledmaw
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To: Dick Bachert
Your #10 is outstanding. I've never seen it before. Thanks much.
37 posted on 04/10/2002 9:34:38 AM PDT by BLASTER 14
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To: Kaisersrsic
WOOO-HOOOO

Good job, Buckeyes. Though an Army Brat and a Southerner by long-time residence, Dad was from Toledo and played for Woody at OSU, so I have a warm place in my heart for Ohio. Glad to see something positive happening there.

Echoing an earlier request, can anyone comment knowledgeably about what this means for visitors to the state? I currently have CCW reciprocity in all the states I'm in at all frequently; it would be nice if Ohio were added to the list, as I do go there from time to time.

38 posted on 04/10/2002 9:34:44 AM PDT by FreedomPoster
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To: goldstategop
and now the decision is binding statewide, not just in Hamilton Count

I hope you're right. It would make logical sense that a State appeals court ruling on the constitutionality of a State law would automatically apply statewide, but since when do logic and the law have to co-exist ? The afternoon drivetime talk shows in Cleveland will be full of nothing but this and the Indian's win streak.

39 posted on 04/10/2002 9:34:47 AM PDT by katana
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To: patton
Yes, it's only legal in hamilton county. What remains to be seen is whether the county will appeal this to the state supreme court, risking state wide non-permit concealed carry, or leave hamilton as an isolated island where cc is legal.
40 posted on 04/10/2002 9:35:14 AM PDT by good_ash
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To: goldstategop
I read on another thread we(Buckeye here) are still required to jump thru hoops for our CCW.....but we are allowed to carry in plain sight now? At least until the legislature screws us again?
41 posted on 04/10/2002 9:35:53 AM PDT by steve50
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To: patton
How can a state appeals court ruling concerning a state law be binding in only one county? What you say doesn't make sense. Doesn't an appeals court speak for the status of law in the ENTIRE state?
42 posted on 04/10/2002 9:36:33 AM PDT by goldstategop
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To: goldstategop
Ohio is now an "open carry" state.

This is true since the court lifted its stay.

I urge all Ohioans to now carry a concealed weapon. Do so whether you feel the "need" to or not. This next part is important: Keep a diary of your activities. Entries in your log should be along the lines of "Carried a concealed weapon today; did not shoot anyone." There will come a time when the antis will allege that concealed carry will cause blood to run in the streets. You have the chance now to document a period in Ohio's history when no concealed carry law existed, yet no such carnage occured. Ohio could still get stuck with a concealed carry law in the future. By carrying concealed now and documenting the lack of violence, you will help the legislators who will argue against restictive language in any such future statute.

The best case scenario is that the General Assembly leaves the issue alone; a Vermont-style law. By documenting a high rate of concealed carry without a corresponding increase in violence, "shall issue" could be the "worst case" scenario. Failing to document a lack of violence during this period could get you stuck with a California style discretionary system. (If you're not a movie star or a big donor, you can forget the permit!)

START PACKIN' NOW!!

43 posted on 04/10/2002 9:38:37 AM PDT by Redcloak
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To: steve50
Yes, I think so. I think people can even carry outside Hamilton County. Let the cops seriously attempt to enforce an UNCONSTITUTONAL law. And why would the sight of law abiding armed citizens disturb rank and file cops? I betcha most will soon get used to their presence. Ohio will be a lot safer now that criminals know they don't have a defenseless sheeple to plunder any more.
44 posted on 04/10/2002 9:39:22 AM PDT by goldstategop
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To: Kaisersrsic
FINALLY ! A state upholding its OWN Constitution. They are some of the worst at ignoring them.
45 posted on 04/10/2002 9:39:36 AM PDT by madison46
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To: patton
I think you are confusing Federal court districts vs a state appeals court. I assume this means that concealed carry cannot be prosecuted under the discarded law while open carry is still prohibited under a previous law they seemed to refer to in their decision. And it is state wide.

I imagine the outcome will be a shall issue law assuming the Supreme Court hears it and goes along. Seeing as how the appeals court effectively *itch slapped the city of Cincinnati, I would be surprised if the Supreme court reversed it.

46 posted on 04/10/2002 9:41:38 AM PDT by oldcomputerguy
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To: Kaisersrsic
Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition!
47 posted on 04/10/2002 9:48:30 AM PDT by splach78
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To: Redcloak
Do you live in hamilton county? Are you involved in the suit? Before you start advising people to break an (albeit unconstitutional) law, make sure you have the right information:

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=aa25f0fad3543a75710b6ebd684019c1&threadid=108372 - some people on TFL are from ohio and have been following this very closely - this only affects hamilton county per their information.

48 posted on 04/10/2002 9:50:51 AM PDT by good_ash
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To: Redcloak
More info: http://enquirer.com/midday/midday1.html

Again, only hamilton county.

49 posted on 04/10/2002 9:52:30 AM PDT by good_ash
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To: Kaisersrsic
Bump!
50 posted on 04/10/2002 9:55:00 AM PDT by 4CJ
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