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Would The World Be better Without Religion
Gregg Easterbrook

Posted on 04/11/2002 2:47:21 PM PDT by catonsville

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To: catonsville
Faith makes people want to kill each other...

Not true. Faith is merely an excuse to kill other people.

The fundamental problem is that there are some people who just want to tell other people how to live their lives.

In some cases, it's "Worship my god, or I'll kill you".

In other cases, it's "Worship me, or I'll kill you".

In other cases, it's "Don't eat/smoke that plant, or I'll kill you".

And so on.

If it wasn't Faith used as an excuse to kill, it would be something else.

41 posted on 04/11/2002 4:06:34 PM PDT by DuncanWaring
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To: catonsville
The real question is: Which religion is the one that God has revealed, and wants us to believe in? Whether the world would be "better off" with or without false religions is self-evident: Believing falsehoods doesn't do anyone any good. Whether the world would or would not be better off without the true religion is also self-evident.

The real question, then, cannot be Whether the world would be better off without "religion."

42 posted on 04/11/2002 4:11:44 PM PDT by Arthur McGowan
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To: Digger
...fought over black slavery.

Actually, it was fought to keep North America from picking up a new country.

I remind you that Lincoln himself said "If I could save the Union by freeing all of the slaves, I would do it. If I could save the Union by freeing none of the slaves, I would do that. If I could save the Union by freeing some of the slaves and leaving others in shackles, I would do that" (or something along those lines).

43 posted on 04/11/2002 4:12:30 PM PDT by DuncanWaring
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To: catonsville
Interesting article

Flawed Article.
He needs to prove that the examples he cited are religious conflicts. Are they really religious conflicts, or simply conflicts between people of different religions.
He needs to prove his dichotomy of all religions vs no religions. No devote member of a religion would consider all religions equal. Nor would they defend the actions of the other religions, in order to justifiy their own.
He needs to compare religious wars vs all wars. Is religion a major cause of war, or a rare cause.
and finally
He needs to examine all the good that religion has done vs the harm. How does the good compare to the evil.

44 posted on 04/11/2002 4:19:26 PM PDT by Sci Fi Guy
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To: delphine
Very true, which is why it is imperative to keep these entities separate. Religion has only been dangerous when it has wielded state power (e.g. Saudi Wahhabism).

Maybe so, but States don't need religion to conduct mass murder. And those that use religion to conduct muder oftentimes can't walk and chew gum at the same time, as demonstrated by Islamic regimes. They foment hatred in the name of religion, but so many resources are spent to contain and direct that hatred that all the Mideast Islamic states combined can't muster a military force to take on a country smaller than the state of New Jersey.
45 posted on 04/11/2002 4:27:13 PM PDT by No Left Turn
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To: Bloody Sam Roberts
The worlrd will only be better after Jesus Christ retuens.

1Chronicles 17:21. I think this United States is this nation. It says, "WHAT ONE (ECHAD, UNITED) NATION in the earth is like thy people Israel, whom God went to redeem to be his own people, to make thee a name of greatness and terribleness, by driving out nations from before thy people, whom thou hast redeemed out of Egypt?" Jeremiah 6: 16 Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls.

Peace,

DrMike

46 posted on 04/11/2002 4:28:30 PM PDT by STD
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To: Bloody Sam Roberts
The world will only be better after Jesus Christ returns.

1Chronicles 17:21. I think this United States is this nation. It says, "WHAT ONE (ECHAD, UNITED) NATION in the earth is like thy people Israel, whom God went to redeem to be his own people, to make thee a name of greatness and terribleness, by driving out nations from before thy people, whom thou hast redeemed out of Egypt?" Jeremiah 6: 16 Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls.

Peace,

DrMike

47 posted on 04/11/2002 4:31:41 PM PDT by STD
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To: Irish Queen
Radio Free Republic presents "Faith in Action" hosted by Michael Curtiss MD with David Ware

Radio Free Republic Thursday night April 11th 8PM CST "Faith in Action" with Michael Curtiss MD. Join us in our inaugural show when we discuss the biblical foundations of the United States of America. Call in lines are 1-886-radioFR and 1888-802-9293.

Bump this post and FReep mail me your input. Agape, DrMike

48 posted on 04/11/2002 4:33:56 PM PDT by STD
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To: No Left Turn
Maybe so, but States don't need religion to conduct mass murder.

Ahhh, I should have made myself clearer. I was attempting to imply that religion as a social force can be a brake on the excesses of a state if they are decoupled.

49 posted on 04/11/2002 4:34:09 PM PDT by delphine
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To: catonsville
religion used to justify acts of terror we dont need. the amish, very religous, dont have aggressive tendencies to conquer and kill in Gods name. Others do.
50 posted on 04/11/2002 4:38:27 PM PDT by galt-jw
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To: watchin
I consider Marxism a religion because it requires blind faith and is intolerant of other beliefs its just the worst religion of all( yes Marxism is even worse than evil religion #2 Islam).
51 posted on 04/11/2002 4:41:33 PM PDT by weikel
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To: catonsville
The world would be better off without ORGANIZED religion.

Personal relationships with God are productive. But that would mean individual decisions, based on personal, independant thought. Not for the faint of heart. It's a lot easier to just follow your book, and priest (rabbi, whatever), and be part of the "accepted" crowd. We want to belong, to not think, to not question, to not be ostracized. That hurts.

Organized religion leads to "us against them."

"WE are the true believers, and those that oppose us oppose God. Everyone else is wrong, and are going to hell."

Sound familier?

52 posted on 04/11/2002 4:54:05 PM PDT by MonroeDNA
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To: catonsville
If we didn't have religion, we would revert to tribalism as a substitute. Just look to Somalia to see what it would be like.
53 posted on 04/11/2002 4:56:25 PM PDT by Brett66
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To: catonsville
"Would The World Be better Without Religion?"

Would the world be better without TV, the Internet, or politicians?

Not a question of religion, but of faith. The world would not be better without faith, because of belief in tomorrow we can get through today. Faith that things will get better requires hope and love. Faith that things will get worse is not faith at all, but depression and despair, which require a faith that things will get better to keep on living.

"Tomorrow, tomorrow, I love you tomorrow. You're only a day away."

54 posted on 04/11/2002 5:06:02 PM PDT by d14truth
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To: weikel
Religion kills sometime...but look at the alternative. The biggest killers of mankind have been the Commies who have institutionalized atheism.
55 posted on 04/11/2002 5:23:39 PM PDT by trevorjohnson
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To: Brett66
If we didn't have religion, we would revert to tribalism as a substitute. Just look to Somalia to see what it would be like.

A very odd statement. Tribalism is inherently religious. The Somalis are very religious.

I think, in interpreting what many people here are saying, is that they think of religion in strictly western/levantine terms: a universal religion, absolutely true for all time and for all peoples, without exception. If that is "religion" then some "bad guys" have been religious, and some have not, some have been "tribal" and some have not.

But communism and other "non-religious" ideologies happen to share most of the underlying assumptions of "religion": that they have all the answers, for all people, for all time, everywhere, and that everything will be fine once their "truth" is universally acknowledged. This kind of thinking leads to war and intolerance more often than not.

But you can't just look at total body counts when talking about the 20th century: there were a lot more people alive then - you have to look at "per capita slaughter" if you want to claim to be objective. What distinguishes the larger body count of 20th century ideologies compared to, say, the wars of religion in Europe (one of which, for example, the 30 Years War, killed 1/3 the population of Germany), is that the 20th century had larger populations of "people in the way" and better technological means at the disposal of warring parties to more efficiently wipe them out.

That's "progress" for you.

56 posted on 04/11/2002 5:28:56 PM PDT by Vast Buffalo Wing Conspiracy
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To: MonroeDNA
Oh, I'm tired of people blaming organized religion. As oppossed to what? Unorganized religion? If a group of people believes similarly they will gather and worship together. All religion is organized if followed by more than one person. Even the Laveyan Satanists say "Don't follow the sheep" and yet they all read Lavey's works and follow him. The atheists dismiss organized religion as beign weak-minded and "not thinking for yourself" and yet they give the same tired arguments again and again without thought (they really just seem mad at God).
57 posted on 04/11/2002 5:33:10 PM PDT by trevorjohnson
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To: catonsville
Define Religion first before screwing it.
58 posted on 04/11/2002 5:36:25 PM PDT by swampfox98
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To: MonroeDNA
Let's take your premise a step further... and prohibit any discussion of religion since discussing religion may influence someone thus diminishing independent thought.
59 posted on 04/11/2002 5:38:44 PM PDT by drstevej
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To: trevorjohnson
I mentioned that I considered Marxism a religion.
60 posted on 04/11/2002 5:43:05 PM PDT by weikel
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