Muslims don't want to live in harmony, says Indian Prime Minister Vajpayee

rediff.com ^ | April 12 2002 | Sheela Bhatt in Panaji

[AM2000]

Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee had an unpleasant surprise for Muslims on Friday: he came down on the community like a ton of bricks.

Addressing a public rally in the Goan capital, Vajpayee said Islam has two faces: one that teaches tolerance and respects human sentiments; another that fans militancy where there is no place for tolerance.

Completely changing his tone from the anguished one he had adopted in Gujarat last fortnight, Vajpayee, in the presence of members of the Bharatiya Janata Party's national executive, lashed out at Muslims. "In Indonesia, Malaysia, wherever Muslims are living they don't want to live in harmony," he claimed. "They don't mix with the society [ghul milkar nahin rehte]. They are not interested in living in peace."

He said that along with Islam madrassas (Islamic religious schools) should teach science subjects. They should also teach children to live in harmony. "Talwar ke bal par mat ka prachar nahin karna chahiye (Islamists should not preach their opinions by force)," he said.

On the Gujarat riots, he took the same line as the hardliners within the Sangh Parivar, blaming it all on the massacre at Godhra. "Aag lagayi kisne?" he thundered. "Aag faily kaise? (Who lit the fire? How did it spread?)"

But he conceded that what had happened after Godhra was also condemnable. "If you go deeper into the Gujarat tragedy," he said, "you will find that the people of India believe in a multi-religious culture and want to live in harmony. No one should challenge our beliefs in secularism."

He said he was surprised to know during his visit to Singapore about the arrests of some 15 Al Qaeda members. He said India was suffering at the hand of these terrorists.

Union Home Minister Lal Kishenchand Advani, though present at the public meeting, did not speak. BJP president K Jana Krishnamurthi stoutly defended the Narendra Modi government in Gujarat and warned the Congress that it should respect "democratic norms". Slamming the Congress campaign for Modi's ouster, he warned, "We too are capable of playing this sport."

[AM2000]

If it turns out that the Indian PM really made these comments, I suspect this could very well herald the beginning of the end of the Indian republic. Such comments by an Indian head of state are unheard of; this may very well destabilize the second most populous nation on earth, with global ramifications... stay tuned.

[nutmeg]

Bump for later reading

[AM2000]

ping

[tomahawk]

The PM speaks the truth. He is not in denial of reality, like many others.

[Bikers4Bush]

Or on the other hand, he could be helping to awake all the other religions of the world to the threat of Islam.

Either way I don't see any gloom and doom for the Indian Republic.

[AM2000]

Truth or not, pragmatism demands that certain 'facts' not be said publicly.. that Islam resists assimilation and demands complete dominion over all other faiths, is one of those facts that are best left unsaid. The PM has to know the potential his statements have of creating additional, massive, unrest across South Asia (not just India).. so the question becomes, why did he do it? Time will tell...

[mikeIII]

...I suspect this could very well herald the beginning of the end of the Indian republic.

And if this ain't hyperbole!

[Dog Gone]

That were excellent remarks that he made if he's interested in causing more violence in India. It was a little short of declaring war on muslim citizens.

This should really make things lively in Kashmir.

What an utter dunce, and enemy of democracy this twit is. I'm sure his remarks will receive rave reviews among many here at FR, though.

[AM2000]

What an utter dunce, and enemy of democracy this twit is.

He's no dunce.. a real dunce can't be a major player in Indian politics for decades and maintain a 'clean' (i.e. not corrupt) image. He's good... he's very good. Which makes me wonder, why is he doing this?

[cmak9]

I dunno...I always thought facing reality was the first step in any worthy endeavor.

My favorite religion says that "the truth shall set you free".

[HELLRAISER II]

Yeah in today's societies one will not last very long by telling the truth.

[AM2000]

Vajpayee's saying it might not be the best idea.

Precisely. Every nation has its myths which it's based on, and India's great myth is its commitment to secularism and tolerance and a multi-religious society. Regardless of the fact that most Hindus in India agree with the PM's comments, it was always understood that no one in higher office would ever actually say it. Vajpayee has ripped the veil off of Indian secularism, and where the country goes from here is anybodys guess.

Of course, it's also possible he never said any of this and that rediff.com is lying. I haven't been able to corroborate this news from any other source, but I'm still looking.

[LibWhacker]

It seems that Eurotrash and Americans of questionable allegiance are the only fools in this world to think otherwise.

[mgc1122]

Bingo, Mr. Prime Minister. If you ain't Islamic, and you ain't gonna convert, you are targeted for death by "peaceful" Islam. That includes non-Islamic concepts such as freedom of speech, voting, womens' rights, etc, etc.

Simple as that.

[TLBSHOW]

This is a start and when we do the same across America the better off we will be.

[swarthyguy]

That includes non-Islamic concepts such as freedom of speech, voting, womens' rights, etc, etc. Simple as that. EXACTLY: Perhaps GW should borrow his speechwriter?:) Well, it is springtime; the Kashmir offensive should be starting soon.

[AppyPappy]

India has something that no other country has: a sympathetic terrorist group. If the muslim terrorists attack, the hindu terrorists give it right back. The muslims will learn not to poke at the Cobra.

[swarthyguy]

Goa is a also a predominantly catholic state. India's only "Catholic majority state".
As a kid, i saw the body of a saint (i think St Francis Xavier) lying in a glass coffin where pilgrims came to pay homage. Goa is also the place where the churches have (or used to) seperate entrances for brahmins and non-brahmins - one of the conditions of mass conversion the jesuits agreed to.

[AM2000]

According to Lonely Planet, Goa is about 2/3rds Hindu...

[swarthyguy]

Could very well be; in the late 60's it wasn't. I stand corrected. Other indians have been moving in and settling there. Beautiful beaches and seafood.

[Dog Gone]

Assuming this is true, and I'm sure it is because it was reportedly said at a public rally, it was crazy. I'm sorry, but it's absolutely nuts.

Tensions are still high after hundreds of people were killed in religious violence. The muslims started the actual killing, but the reprisals were deliberate, calculated, and far worse. To make it worse, the authorities didn't intervene even though it lasted for days.

Here, at a public rally, Vajpayee stoked those same fires by demonizing a significant minority group in the country. He could have tackled the issue in an interview, or in Parliament. He could have spoken of a solution or way to assemble leaders of all religions to address the root causes of the problem. But that's not at all what he did.

Maybe this is related to election year politics. Or maybe he's decided that India needs to be a Hindu theocracy, and all others must go. I don't know.

But it wasn't aimed at solving the problem, that's for sure.

[galt-jw]

I should move to India.

[USMMA_83]

And you are ol'Mushy's biggest supporter here on FR! What a complete islamofascist! Not one word the PM said was false. Go anywhere in the world, Islam seeks to opress the minority or claim land from the majority.

You are pathetic. Seriously now, are you American or Pakistani? Atlest your other jihadi on FR has the honor of describing himself as "Pakistani Secularist".

[Thud]

Definitely impolitic and could have interesting consequences. Does he have a medication problem?

[fogarty]

"Truth or not, pragmatism demands that certain 'facts' not be said publicly"

To put it bluntly, F*CK pragmatism. The Prime Minister obviously has had his fill of Hindu's being slaughtered by Muslims, and of Pakistan continually menacing his society. You are in no position to judge this elected leader - and you probably have no more intel about the situation than he does.

If instability comes, let it come. I'll take war with honor on my side rather than peace with lies anyday.

[AM2000]

Does he have a medication problem?

LOL!

[BnBlFlag]

"Why is he doing this?"..........Because he's telling the truth.

[Clemenza]

Many Christian Goans have immigrated to the USA, most famously Dinesh DeSouza.

[Destructor]

"Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee had an unpleasant surprise for Muslims on Friday: he came down on the community like a ton of bricks."

"Addressing a public rally in the Goan capital, Vajpayee said Islam has two faces: one that teaches tolerance and respects human sentiments; another that fans militancy where there is no place for tolerance."

Prime Minister Vajpayee is correct in that analogy.

[ambrose]

Oh yeah, these comments will likely enrage the Muslims in India... they might start terrorizing people as a result, such as burning trains full of people, slaughtering children, etc.

Wait, they're ALREADY doing that...

[Dog Gone]

Oh yeah. I forgot. Anyone who disagrees with you is an islamofacist.

I'm really not interested in engaging in conversation with you. Been there, tried that.

[mikeIII]

...The muslims started the actual killing, but the reprisals were deliberate, calculated, and far worse.

Now, anything else wouldn't be a "retaliation", would it? Response to unprovoked barbarism has to be in greater measure, if it should have any effect. That's the reason for the scale of Israel's response. The Hindus have had enough - from the PM down, it seems. We have had only one severe Islamic terror attack in the US so far. Any more, one more, and we'll hear our leaders echoing these words too.

[swarthyguy]

yeah, i have a couple of friends and used to work with them too.

[ambrose]

As I see things, we might eventually wind up in another World War with the Christians/Jews/Hindus/Buddhists on one side vs Muslims and their EuroTrash allies on the other side.

[Dog Gone]

Yes, and so are some Hindus. It's not the kind of thing responsible people encourage in a democracy.

It's not fine for either side to do, wouldn't you agree?

[montag813]

"In Indonesia, Malaysia, wherever Muslims are living they don't want to live in harmony," he claimed. "They don't mix with the society. They are not interested in living in peace."

This should be put on billboards. Substitute France, Britain, Germany and the United States. Even in the U.S., where one would think they would fade into the shadows after 9/11, Muslims are out in force, rabble-rousing, attacking critics, sparking campus demonstrations, intimidating public speakers and politicians into pathetic "I don't hate Muslims" pleas.

We must confront them in the media, in the universities, in the street...wherever they oppose American values. We must Freep them into "submission", the very translation of "Islam".

[Canticle_of_Deborah]

The only "problem" India has is they are tired of being beaten up. I have a friend who is a Hindu monk; one of the most peaceful people I know. The people can't take it anymore, nor should they. The PM is just stating what his constituency feels. We in America do not sit back when we are attacked yet we expect Israel and India to do just that. Israel and India are taking the gloves off and fighting back. I support both of them 100%.

BTW, Kashmir is a highly spiritual place. Many if not all of the Hindu priestly class come from this area. It is a belief in that area that Jesus visited it during the lost years of the Bible. Don't expect this place to be given up without a fight. Don't miss the irony of the conflict taking place concurrently in Jerusalem and Kashmir.

[USMMA_83]

Coward!

[Dog Gone]

Generally, we like to encourage citizens to behave and punish them when they don't. In civilized countries, we use the police and the courts to do that. We don't encourage vigilante retaliation.

If India isn't going to be civilized, then I guess it's fine. Turn the mobs loose, and let's get the genocide over with.

That's the alternative that is obviously favored on this thread. It's no skin off my nose.

[AM2000]

Response to unprovoked barbarism has to be in greater measure, if it should have any effect. That's the reason for the scale of Israel's response

Correct. However, the analogy is inaccurate since there is a huge difference in the Indian and the Israeli reaction. The Israeli reaction uses the official instruments of state power - the IDF. The IDF proceeds by a plan, it answers to civilian command. The Indian response was in the form of riots, led by mobs, while the official instruments of state power stood impotently. In Israel, they follow laws even in retaliation. In India, they do not. India still has a very long way to go if it wants to emulate Israel.

[mikeIII]

Goa today is an attractive tourist destination for Brits, Europeans and Israelis. The hippy TM beach parties have evolved into trance-music parties on the beaches. The PM's speech would definitely have been well-received by the Jewish vacationers there.

[AM2000]

Yer not gonna take that from someone who uses a screen name that sounds a lot of Usama, are you? :-D

[fella]

"Truth or not, pragmatism demands that certain 'facts' not be said publicly.. that Islam resists assimilation and demands complete dominion over all other faiths, is one of those facts that are best left unsaid"

So all non-muslims should lay on their backs and present their bare bellies to their masters? Or bend over and present their necks to their masters' swords?

I do not think so. Nor should we hide the truth, people should be warned. Unless of course you are terrorized into submission.

[Dog Gone]

Ah, that's mild coming from him. He's in a mellow mood today.

[born yesterday]

Why exactly must these facts remain better left unsaid? You sound like a sissy, a geopolitical scaredy cat.

[mikeIII]

My point is only that "retaliation" in lesser or equal is ineffective and pointless. You're right, though, in India, unlike in Isarel, the people took it upon themselves to retalitate, and that could be because the Indian Political establishment would not have done much about it, given the political influence of the Muslims there.

[lormand]

"What an utter dunce, and enemy of democracy this twit is. I'm sure his remarks will receive rave reviews among many here at FR, though."

Have you been watching the same news and events like most of us? Have you seen what is going on in France and many other European countries. Hell, they don't even like living in harmony with each other (Shites vs. Suni).

Some of us have different sets of survival skills. When the Muslim world speaks with one unified voice which speaks of the death of Western Civilization, I listen and prepare.