Posted on 04/14/2002 4:18:08 PM PDT by Michael2001
SAVAGE: William Donahue of the Catholic League, welcome to "The Savage Nation."
DONAHUE: It's a pleasure to be on with the guy who's the best in the business.
SAVAGE: Well, I'm flabbergasted. But seriously, I've seen you fight the good fight, and this, to me, is the defining issue. The people who hate the Catholic Church seem to be jumping on you left and right. CNN is the worst with its byline, "Sins of the Fathers."
What actually is going on here? How many priests, percentage-wise, would you say – if you can even estimate – are involved?
DONAHUE: Well, the best work on this is by a fellow from Penn State University who's not even Catholic, Phil Jenkins. In his book "Priests and Pedophiles," he estimates it's probably around 2 percent to 5 percent, which is approximately what it is in the clergy in the other religious denominations. He estimates it around 8 percent in the general adult population.
So to that extent, I don't think it's any worse in the Catholic Church than it is elsewhere. What is worse is that we Catholics expect more from our priests, and these guys have failed us tremendously.
We don't expect that once you find out one of these guys has committed evil – and that's what this is, this is evil; this is not a matter of a priest who needs to dry out for a month because he's had too much to drink and the poor devil may need to take a break for a month. This is putting their hands on a kid, and then to play musical chairs with these miscreants and move them around from parish to parish [is outrageous].
And now you have the spectacle of a guy who is not only practicing sex with kids but also publicly advocating it. And I have a book that came out in 1982 by a Cuban priest, Enrique Rueda, on the homosexual network. He named Chandler. And you know what the liberals said? "Oh, this is homophobia."
Oh, really! What are they saying now? He's got the goods on him. We knew about this bum back in 1978 when he started in with NAMBLA (North American Man-Boy Love Association) with some of the people in Boston, which is why so many Catholics are outraged.
SAVAGE: William Donahue, I read somewhere that some are saying there's a velvet mafia that took over many Catholic seminaries. Is there any truth to that statement, in your opinion?
DONAHUE: Well, Andrew Greeley, who is famous for writing sex novels, did come out and say that there was a lavender mafia. There's no question there's a homosexual network. Here's the proof, Mike. I'm looking at this stuff, of course, day in, day out, I'm living it. And these pedophiles would say to the kids, "You'd better not say anything because if you do, no one will believe you."
Now, when a guy says that in New York, the other guy says it in Dallas, that's a network. They're all on the same page, they've got their cue cards together. And that's the scary thing about it; it became a mantra. So there is a network there. How big is it? I don't exactly know, but whatever it is, it's damaging.
Though the sexual revolution took place in terms of ideas in the 1960s, all hell didn't break loose until the '70s. The Catholic Church is not an insular institution. It hit the church like a hurricane, and these guys just took their libidos and threw it to the wind. They should have just left the priesthood and said "It's not working out for me."
Instead, they reinterpreted everything. Even bestiality now could be understood as not intrinsically evil. And there was a book, by Father Anthony Kosnick, that was used in seminaries in the late '70s that was used to promote this. So if anything, this is not a church run by conservatives, run by the ruler. This has been a free-for-all for decades.
I was in a Catholic college and you should see the anti-Catholicism that existed there at the highest ranks, including the nuns who ran the place and who didn't want anybody with a collar, namely a monsignor, any priest, to get the job.
You know what? The liberals are saying it all has to come out. Oh, boy, nobody wants it all to come out more than Bill Donahue, and once it does, people will find out what a bunch of phonies a lot of these liberals have been. They've been eating away at the Catholic Church like a bunch of termites for a long time. Some of these priests and nuns are like welfare kings and queens. They should have the decency to get off the dole.
SAVAGE: You know, William Donahue, I listen to you, I hear the passion that exists. I'm not Catholic, but I have many good Catholic friends and I know that they're very religious people. They're very good fathers, they're very good husbands, they're very good people. Some of them are wonderful, they're war heroes, these are wonderful men.
And I have said on my show that the strength of the Catholic Church is being seen now, not its weakness. Because it is airing – however it came about, it is airing – this enormous black eye, this problem, however you want to put it, and it will expunge itself of these perverts, these deviants. The church and its fundamental message will come back stronger as a result.
But I ask myself why don't we see the media demanding that some other world religions, which will remain unnamed at this moment, throw out their preachers who preach homicide from their pulpits? Why do we not see anything about that, for example, about the murderous mullahs who preach hatred and teach children to kill? How come we don't hear about that?
DONAHUE: You're absolutely right. I think that's what we need to focus on, and the fact of the matter is that on September 11, 19 Muslims bombed this country. And the first thing out of everybody's mouth was "All right, fairly enough, not all Muslims are like these terrorists."
Yet we have 46,000-47,000 priests in this country and a lot of people are making the most incredible snide comments and sweeping statements that every Catholic priest is like these bums. Most Catholic priests I know are wonderful men, and they're hurt by this. It runs between hurt and sorrow and anger and outrage.
There has always been a lot of anti-Catholic bigotry in this country and now, of course, you're seeing anti-Semitism stick its ugly head out again with the lopsided demands being made on the college campuses. So this is a tough time for people.
But it's a time for courage, and if people don't stand up and stick by their convictions and act reasonably and stop the hyperventilation, we're not going to get any place in this country. We're giving it back to the extremists and that's the danger.
SAVAGE: Well, it's an anti-religious movement that I see. "When they came for the Catholics I said nothing because I was not a Catholic" and all that. I've quoted the Rev. Niemöller on this show over and over again.
People don't understand that this is an attack upon religion, Mr. Donahue, and I know that you're almost a one-man Samson right now fighting the voices that would like to drown you out and see the church disappear and have the cathedrals turned into abortion clinics.
There's fundamentally nothing worse than hurting a child who trusts you. We all agree on that. However, you don't blame the church for the actions of boll weevils who use the edifice in order to do their harm.
This is a totally absurd claim. 8% of the adult population are child molesters?
Do the math: It would mean that every twelfth person you come in contact with is a child molester. Moreover, since most child molesters abuse multiple children, this would mean almost every child in the country has been molested at least once.
No religion in this country gets bashed as much as that of the Catholics. And, the reason is simple (IMO): they are the biggest voice against abortions. Period.
And, I am not a Catholic, BTW.
My parents were strong Irish Catholics, but I became a Christian Fundamentalist with a Vengence my sophomore year while attending a Catholic high school (Bishop Messmer in Milwaukee). The same Brothers Brannigan/Father Groppi crowd that destoyed the Church with the then proto-revolutionary theology were buggering heavily even at that time, but the liberals buried it along with the shamed traditionalists.
Since it is well-known that at least 3/4 (probably more) of pedophiles are men, this would have to mean at least every 8th man likes to rape little kids.
Beg to differ.
Catholics are often portrayed positively in the media. Conservative Protestants almost never are.
It's true there hasn't been as much attention focused on them lately, but I suspect that's because the press believes they've been finished off in the public perception and don't require any more bashing.
Therein lies the problem. Why should they leave on their own accord when they have it just the way they like? They must be made to leave and that is the responsiblity of the bishops all the way to the top.
I see it this way: as individuals, conservative Protestants are more often portrayed as laughable stereotypes and out of touch; for overall philosophy, the Catholics get it.
How's that: we're both right.
IMHO, the reason why they got into the priesthood to begin with is because of the easy access they would have to young boys, not to mention being beyond reproach.
Many pedophiles get into positions where they have authority over children - i.e. coaches, scout leaders, the list goes on.
It's a shame the way the Church has handled this situation in the past and I for one am glad to see the media going after these perverts.
I think the Church will be better for it.
Mark my words. It will be my fault and your fault by the end of the year.
Beg to differ. They must be jailed and that is the responsibility of the Bishops.
The two groups that the media are most likely to attack are conservative, believing Protestants and conservative, believing Catholics. And the reason they do so is that these are the groups who are standing in the way of their liberal agenda: abortion, perversion, bestiality, euthanasia, do what you like, get rid of your guilt, and all the rest of the Culture of Death.
Catholics and Evangelicals are natural allies in these culture wars. We can agree to differ on many points of doctrine, but I think we are very much in agreement on many of the moral basics that are tearing our country apart.
sigh
Same for episcopals and methodists.
Beg to differ. The criminals must be dealt with by the civil authorities. Whether certain bishops should be indicted must be left to the civil authorities.
Now the remainder. Probably twice the number in the current dragnet are engaging in legal sexual relations with consensual adults. THEY must be dealt with.
It ain't gonna happen.
By the end of the year, it will be the lawyers' faults.
Where in the world did you come up with such nonsense?
There is much in what you say, but I think it is not completely true. Remember Father Mulcahey from MASH, and the priest on X-Files? The list could go on and on of Catholic priests portrayed as being good people, even when their philosophy is portrayed as out of touch. You would be very hard pressed to come up with 1/10th the number of positive portrayals of conservative Protestant ministers or strong believers in the media of the last 20 years or so.
An evangelical is almost invariably a bigot and is usually a closet Klansman, child molester or repressed homosexual. In any case, the distinct difference is that he is portrayed as an evil person, rather than a basically good person with some funny beliefs. The occasional conservative Protestant who is redeemed in the course of the story is redeemed because they reject their faith.
I believe this portrayal is so universal we no longer even notice it, which was the point of my post above. Negative portrayals of Catholics (as Catholics) still has some power to shock.
As others have pointed out, there is enough bashing of all flavors of Christians to go around. Imagine the uproar if devout Muslims, Buddhists or Orthodox Jews were portrayed in even vaguely the same way.
Nahh, that won't happen. The prevalence of the "pedophilia" problem in the Church (and the rash of school shootings) are both essentially symptoms of the destruction of traditional values in our society. Their answer to this, however, will not be the reinstatement of those values. Rather, the slight residue of those values which still hangs on will be blamed. The prescription will be the ruthless rooting out of their every vestige.
You honestly think liberals could ever admit they are the Problem, not the Solution?
His Boss is Jewish ...
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