Secularization as part of the Current World Order and Islam

Islam Online ^ | April 15, 2002 | Dr. Siraj Islam Mufti

[swarthyguy]

The real root cause of problems of the West is its adoption of Godless secularism that, along with its associated atheism, has led to its crass materialism, hedonism and moral and environmental decay. It has produced grave problems in its society, causing its disintegration, which is also very evident in its basic institution of the family. It is because of the absence of ethical and moral education that Western society is suffering from decadence, with constant increase in daily occurrences of crime and drug use, juvenile delinquency, violence, sex exploitation and abuse, along with rampant racism.

The above is the really tricky sneaky part of the argument. I have not doubt that many would agree with all or some of the criticisms expressed above, but none would advocate a heavy handed theocratic solution, least of all the one offered by the writer.

Admittedly, Muslim societies suffer from grave problems of economic and political leadership, but their family institutions are strong and they possess a long tradition of firmly established values emanating from their mosques and religious schools.

Strong enough to tolerate losing one out of a every few kids to "firmly established values emanating....."
Emanating is right!

[Dialup Llama]

Moral decay? Wouldn't that better describe Mohammed Atta: the lap dance scoring, liqour swilling, murdering jihadi along with their corrupt imams who send them out and the corrupt culture which fetes them?

[Dialup Llama]

>but their family institutions are strong and they possess a long tradition of firmly established values emanating from their mosques and religious schools.

Would those family values include sending out a daughter with a bomb belt on and profiting from her death no less?

[JRandomFreeper]

, with constant increase in daily occurrences of crime and drug use, juvenile delinquency, violence, sex exploitation and abuse, along with rampant racism.

Except that this sentence is factually incorrect. Crime is dropping. Things are getting better, as evidenced by uniform crime statistics. The left and the arabs have a reputation as liars.

/john

[swarthyguy]

Just as the Germans and to a lesser extent, the Japanese, misunderstood the true nature of America, so will the islamatics.
Superficially, America is all goodtime charlies, beachs, bars, discos dancing and music. But, boy, interrupt our pursuits and watch out.
Arab Street, mean the American Couch!

Jacque Barzun's book, "From Dawn to Decadence" about 500 years of western history, should be renamed
From Dawn to Decadence to Rebirth!!
Are these bozos going to regret that they hit us before they had nukes.

[swarthyguy]

True, but he's talking about the West and in general i think all freedom secular societies around the world that offer their citizens equal rights, freedom of worship, association etc etc.

[swarthyguy]

The left and the arabs have a reputation as liars.
And deservedly so, you're right.

[swarthyguy]

Wait a second:: lapdancing, liquor swillings...isn't that the domain of secularists?:))

[jobedo]

HOW TO TELL IF SOMEONE'S A TERRORIST BY THEIR BUT.. One unifying factor with all terrorist is that they can rationalize it. I'm blowing myself up and killing others because of this, this, and this. I am mad at the political atrocities in several nations, but I am not going strap a bomb on myself or for the cowards- a child. I am just amazed how they will say "terrorism is wrong, BUT,,," and it's always that" BUT..." that signals they are a Terrorist.

[wretchard]

The organizational contrast between Christianity and Islam could not be more complete. Christ wanted no part of the state: "my kingdom is not of this world". Early Christianity had no sacred texts. The Gospels were not written down until nearly 80 years after the Crucifixion. There was not even a Creed, or organized statement of doctrine, until the Council of Nicae (now part of Islamic Turkey) 185 years after Christ founded the Church. It had no organized source of financing. It had no army ("Put your sword into the sheath" John 18:11).

In contradistinction, Islam was created by Mohammed as a complete universe, encompassing both secular and sacred. It had a legal system, the sharia, a form of government based on descendance from the Prophet, the caliphate, a written koran, an army, the Companions and a source of revenue, the pilgrimage trade to Mecca, once to a meteor, hence renamed the haj.

Islam, its adherents claim, is "more than a religion". They are right. It is a world you enter, and from which there is no exit.

Christianity did not adopt the state, rather, the State adopted Christianity, for its own convenient purposes. Constantine, in particular, claimed it for the rather worldly purpose of winning a military battle. "In Hoc Signo Vinces". But despite the best efforts of Kings and medieval Popes, Christianity remained rooted in the spirit, and not in the world.

There is no Christian version of sharia law, or a caliphate, or an army (Stalin once asked, "how many divisions has the Pope?", or a haj. And, last time I checked, it had no version of a suicide bomber corps.

[Post Toasties]

The problem with what Dr. Siraj Islam Mufti has to say here is that he has only part of an argument. Besides ignoring the parts of Islam which advocate violence and discrimination against non-Muslims, his sweeping indictment of secularization is misdirected, since he can show no example of a Muslim society with a remotely comparable standard of living to that of the West which doesn't show most, if not all, of the same characteristics he arbitrarily ascribes to 'secularism'.

However, there may be a middle course satisfactory to most. Islam is probably unique in being the only major religion which has numerous and repeated passages in the Quran and other holy texts which specifically enjoin Muslims to perpetrate acts of violence and discrimination against non-Muslims. If laws (in the US and elsewhere) were passed which defined any such passages (in whatever religion's books) as being not religious or divinely inspired teachings by nature of their inherent injustice to others, only versions of the Quran and other religious texts with those passages expunged could be allowed to be used for any religious or teaching purpose, and the use of texts which include the inciteful passages could result in criminal prosecution and closing of mosques and schools which refuse to comply with the law.

The really advantageous part of this is that it would leave judeo/christian teachings untouched for the most part. With this approach, we could keep the best of Islam and reject the worst of it. It would not amount to censorship, since unexpurgated Islamic texts could be accessed in libraries, for instance. It would just be illegal to use such texts for religious purposes which include passages which incite unlawful or discriminatory actions. And if Muslims don't like it, they can suck sand, IMO.

[Post Toasties]

it's not as if most people have considered the KJV of the Bible as the only useable version, and versions which have references to an asexual god are being used. Given this, I see no reason not to bar, by law, the use of socially destructive and discriminatory passages from the Quran and other Islamic texts for 'religious' purposes, since they are arguably already in violation of the laws relating to literature which advocates violence and insurrection.

[Post Toasties]

Btw, your link to the article isn't working for me.

[browardchad]

It's the lack of exigesis, or evolution, of Islam that makes these passages you speak of so dangerous. For centuries, Islamic scholars who sought to bring the religion into the modern era, by putting the Koran into an historical context -- and thus debunk its absolute orthodoxy -- have been persecuted and banished from Islamic society, since they were a threat to the abolute power of the Mullahs. Rather than editing the Koran, it needs scholarly and open interpretation for what it is: the work of "holy" men over a period of time, and not something to be taken verbatim as written by the hand of God, and thus not open to interpretation by mere mortals.

The same slavish devotion applies to the Sharia, or teachings, that accompany the Koran, and not least to the Mullahs who perpetuate this "surrender" of the mind to a totalitarian religion by teaching followers that they can make no moral or religious decision, however insignificant, on their own.

[Ukiapah Heep]

Perhaps we've been too harsh on our benighted Musselmani brothers. We should seek to guide them on their path. I see plenty of mouthy female news reporters on Gulf States TV. They should all be guided to the proper role of women under Islam. The key word being under. And the men should abide by the prohibition on alcoholic beverages. If we enforces this rigidly in, say, one of the Gulf states, it might help the Arabs on their way.

[Post Toasties]

Regardless. I'm simply not of a mind, period, to dally for an indeterminate, but certainly very long, period while naively hoping Islam gains the maturity it has stubbornly resisted for 14 centuries.

My point is that, without violating any commonly accepted religious tenets, we can strip Islam of its hate speech and incitements to violence. Many of us are quite comfortable with interfering more than that to Christianity, as I've pointed out. Therefore,I see no good reason not to excise this, as you point out, dangerous cancer from Islam in the US and other countries.

[Post Toasties]

Rather than editing the Koran, it needs scholarly and open interpretation for what it is: the work of "holy" men over a period of time, and not something to be taken verbatim as written by the hand of God, and thus not open to interpretation by mere mortals.

There's simply no viable candidates for this approach; therefore it's not any sort of real world solution to the problem.

[Post Toasties]

I didn't point out, but I should add here, that we should give Muslim clerics the first opportunity to excise the hateful and inciting texts in any amended Quran to be used for religious instruction. But, one way or other, out it goes. Not in a millennium or a century or probably even a decade. Now.

[browardchad]

Don't misunderstand me, I agree that the problem is urgent. Unfortunately, our government hasn't taken the first step, openly, in confronting it. I almost dread to think what it will take to force the confrontation.