9-11 was excuse to go to "war" (MAJOR BARF ALERT)

Star Tribune ^ | April 20, 2002 | Dick Bernard

[zapiks44]

There is the old truism, "Children learn what they live."

Children become adults and model learned behavior.

So . . . half a year into the cult-of-fear-based "war on terrorism," it takes only a cursory look at some recent Star Tribune stories to see where we're at: "Deadliest day in 17 months" (in Israel); "U.S. plans for nuclear scenarios -- 7 nations named in secret report"; "India: Fanaticism claims another triumph"; "Maj. Gen Frank Hagenbeck, commander of the [Afghan mountain] operation near Gardes, said of Taliban and Al-Qaida, 'We body slammed them today and killed hundreds of these guys.' " The list goes on and on.

[zapiks44]

This article is full of flaws. Where to begin...

First, the author makes yet another complaint that Osama bin Laden and Omar haven't been caught. Does he expect it to be done that fast? Hitler was never caught. Does that mean World War II was a failure?

Second, he says that not a single hijackers was an Afghani. This is thinking is aboslutely ludacrious. Hitler was an Austrian. Does that mean we shouldn't have invaded Germany and only invaded Austria? Afghanistan was the hub of the terrorist network that produced the hijakcers. We would've attack the hub of the terrorist network no matter where it was situated.

"rather it was a campaign for other motives, some of the most important motives likely unacknowledged."

Uh oh, it's the oil-pipeline conspiracy again! That must be it. This campaign wasn't about a 10,000-strong terrorist network seeking our destruction! It was all about the oil! That MUST be it! I'm so SMART! /sarcasm

Whenever I encounter people making the pipeline argument, I link them to sites and documents concerning Bin Laden's terror network in Afghanistan and it's close co-ordination with the Taliban. For some reason, whenever I do that, the people saying it's all about oil fall mysteriously silent.

Then, he makes the totally-discredited claim that more Afghans died in the bombings than people did on 9-11. So far, the only source of this was that college professor's study, which has proven very flawed, and even he has downgraded the projection. A study by AP put the civilian casualties at no more than 600. Human Rights Watch estimated it between 500 and 1,000. The NY Times and Washington Post had a similar projections.

"No one mentions that Al-Qaida, like all terrorist groups, will never be eradicated -- that the policy to bomb violence out of existence wll achieve only the objective of making certain that violence will continue to be a way of life far into the future."

When have we said the only way we're going to deal with them is to "bomb them out of existence"? Phase 1 concerned military action because we were facing terrorist training camps and a government that gave them safe haven and refused to cooperate with us. Now that is complete, and phase 2, by all indications, will involve aiding governments in intelligence sharing, co-ordination among law enforcement, and trainging military and intelligence agencies in tracking down and apprehending terrorists. In summary, phase 2 will involved the FBI and CIA more than the US Navy and US Air Force.

"Some of us seem to harbor the naive notion that Al-Qaida, and others like it, are incapable of continuation-of-government initiatives. Likely they are masters of it, and we simply imitators. Theyare masters of stealth, and in this era of the Internet and a shrunken world, will always be several steps ahead of the law. Stamp out one cell, and another will spring up . . . or two or three."

So, your solution is we ignore all known terrorist cells in existence and that by waging "peace and justice" will make every single one of them stop attackin? Remember that the 9-11 terrorist spent lots of time in Europe and the US before striking. If they really just wanted "peace and justice", wouldn't they have peacefully settled in Europe or the US instead of deliberately murdering as many innocent people as they could?

"Until we learn to truly wage peace and justice, all is lost. So long as two-thirds of the Muslim world has serious issues against us -- issues that are not contrived, and by and large not constructively addressed -- we will continue to have problems."

Let's see, their issues against us concern our support of Israel and US prominence. I've spoken to a large number of Arab immigrants, and they see that the majority of Arabs who complain about the Palestinians do indeed seek the total destruction of Israel. Remember, Palestine is a region, not a country. The West Bank and Gaza are only part of Palestine in their areas. Whenever you hear someone call for the "total liberation of Palestine", they really mean the destruction of Israel. I remember reading a poll of Palestinians from about a year and a half ago, shortly after the intifada, saying that about 60% of them called for the "total liberation of Palestine", and a similar percentage said they approved of attacks on Americans and American interests.

As for our prominence, the Middle East is the region that by far has the least American investment, next to Africa. I read a letter in my local newspaper the other day in which the writer blames the terrorist's grievances on our "exploiting corprations". I sent him a letter showing that the Middle East has the least foreign investment from the West. I have yet to receive a reply.

In summary, this writer has no idea whatsoever what he's talking about. His facts are wrong, his line of thinking is wrong, his figures are wrong, his solutions are wrong, he's living proof that the hate-America crowd is morally and intellectually bankrupt.

[StopDemocratsDotCom]

-- Dick Bernard, Woodbury. Retired teachers' representative
some of these people are the ones brainwashing America's youth.

[Andy from Beaverton]

I think we need to tell this Bozo what we think of him directly. Here's his e-mail information.

Dick Bernard
6905 Romeo Road
Woodbury, MN 55125
(651) 730-4849
dick@chez-nous.net

[Chi-townChief]

Until Sept. 11, we couldn't have cared less about Afghanistan. Sept. 11 was an excuse to go to war.

You know he's right! In fact, this sounds just like Japan and December 7, 1941. And that was called "the day of infamy" by the same guy who said "We have nothing to fear but fear itself." It's all so clear!

[Chi-townChief]

I would recommend writing a letter to the op-ed page of the paper and cc'ing this Dick.

[Eric in the Ozarks]

Its people like Dick who keep the Star Tribune in business. Their circulation is actually growing.

[John W]

These type of rants encourage me.When the terrorist sympathizers are whining,you know that our efforts-including those "we'll never know about"-are probably having an effect.

[John W]

Went there-they require all letters to the editor to be from Minnesotans if you expect it to be published.

[zapiks44]

I'm going to send the bulk of my comments to Mr. Bernard. I'll let you know what his reply is (if I get one).

[Shermy]

"Until Sept. 11, we couldn't have cared less about Afghanistan. Sept. 11 was an excuse to go to war."

I guess he rejects the oil pipeline theory.

[zapiks44]

No he doesn't. Just look at this line from his column: "rather it was a campaign for other motives, some of the most important motives likely unacknowledged."

[breakem]

...........amd a damn good excuse at that.

[zapiks44]

Just sent him a slightly-modified e-mail of my comments. I'll let you know what his response is. (assuming I get one)

[Shermy]

He's confused. Maybe they are post 9/11 motives he is fantasizing about.

Funny, these leftists insinuate mysterious motives, but can't come out and say it. It's a kind of self-censorship, sensing that if they say it, they reveal their ignorance and vapidity. Since their claim to a superior "understanding" of the world is a treasured part of their identity, appearing ignorant to any joe on the street who now has the world shoved in his television everyday is a threat.

Of course, here at FR I've seen most every possible ulterior motive expressed with clarity (if not facts). :)

[Gritty]

This man is a fool and lives in a dreamworld. I would bet almost anything he marched in all the Anti-Vietnam War Rallies, and hasn't learned a thing since!

[Chi-townChief]

Thanks, John; I guess I'll have to write directly to Dick to express my "support." BTW, he also needs to know that Pete Seeger, the author of "Where Have All the Flowers Gone?", was also quite the anti-war advocate and passive Nazi supporter until they attacked the USSR also in 1941. I guess that was Seeger's "excuse" to go to war.

[pray4liberty]

In summary, this writer has no idea whatsoever what he's talking about.

People who live in the Land of Ought-to-Be never learn until a bomb drops in their backyard (literally) and then it's too late for them.

[liberalism=failure]

A great analyisis. The only thing I could add is that this this is favorite trick of liberals to project evil motives onto others and then ignore results. This clown can gripe about motives all he wants (erroeously as you point out) but the RESULTS are that the vast majority of Afghani people are far better off after we conducted this war than had we not.

But then that's why liberalism is a failure, because to them good results don't matter, just intentions.

[tet68]

It's not called the, "Red Star" for nothing.

[Mfkmmof4]

Who has the picture of the world trade center being hit? Send that answer to the author of this letter. Please.

[zapiks44]

I agree. They often solely look at the things happen and don't look at the results. For example, a leftist could write something like this: "Over 100,000 American and British troops raced up the beach, destroying every building they came upon, killing all people they considered their 'enemies'. In the entire battle, it is estimated they killed at least 10,000 civilians. The entire beach was reduced to a wasteland of blood and destruction." What the author could be describing is D-Day. We all know the results of that. They could also say it about Hiroshima/Nagasaki. Several leftists have done so, completely ignoring what would've been had they not surrendered.

[ladyinred]

A once-popular song again needs to become the anthem of this nation. "Where Have All the Flowers Gone?" asks, "When will we ever learn? When will we ever learn?"

Oh my gosh, I am laughing so hard over this line! PLEEZE, spare us the long haired hippy freak flower child slop will ya?
To protest the Viet Nam war was one thing, although I never would have, but to protest us going to war after our very own nation was attacked and our citizens murdered is just beyond the pale.

Deport this aged hippy, please!

[ladyinred]

Thanks for the contact info. I paid ole Dickie a little visit by email.

[zapiks44]

I just got my response from Dickie Bernard. All he said was the following: "Your critique (and sarcasm) only serves to energize me." Hmmm. He didn't address what I said about his article. And I'm "energizing" him? What for? So he can make more of his nihilistic, incoherent diatribes? This is proof that he couldn't respond my debunking of his article, so he ignores everything I said about and just used it to pride himself.

[L.N. Smithee]

I just got my response from Dickie Bernard. All he said was the following: "Your critique (and sarcasm) only serves to energize me."

Really, that's ALL he wrote back?

I guess he thinks this is all about him. OK, he's been "energized" -- does that mean he will write an op-ed about exactly how the West will "wage peace" with the "Muslim World?" Do people like him think that if the Muslim World is cowed, the Israelis can be sacrificed for the sake of peace?

Something just occurred to me...suppose the Palestinians are given their state. And, further, lets say that this ends friction with the USA and the allied nations. Then, Arafat and Saddam and Khadafy and the Saudi princes take action to eradicate Israel.

How will the peace-wagers feel about terrorist acts by expatriate Israelis?

[John W]

Got exact same response---

Your critique only serves to energize me.

-----Original Message-----

To: dick@chez-nous.net

Subject: April 20,2002 Column

Mr. Bernard;

I am very encouraged when I read rants such as your "9-11 was excuse to go to 'war'".

When the terrorist sympathizers are whining,you know that our efforts-including those "we'll never know about"-are probably having an effect.

John W

Huntington,IN