Skip to comments.IL: Chicago Rhubarb CONCEAL CARRY WEAPON (CCW) IN ILLINOIS
Posted on 04/22/2002 3:56:14 PM PDT by CHICAGOFARMER
Columnist Eric Zorn a Chicago Tribune writer runs a rhubarb patch in his weekly column that pits advocates supporting various social issues.
* THIS WEEK : CONCEAL CARRY IN ILLINOIS *
The following Rhubarb is between Mr. John Birch of www.Concealcarry.org (no relationship to the other John Birch) and Mr. Thomas Mannard, of Illinois Council against handgun violence.
This exchange is Powerful and Enlighten.
The fur flys as Mr. Birch of Concealed Carry tears into the myths shouted by Gun Control freaks.
This is an lengthy but interesting read. Print it off and read it on the morning commute to the murder capital of America.
So sit back and relax and watch the Facts fly as Conceal Carry destroys the emotional argument from Mr. Mannard.
A little extra: For those of you who live in or have lived in Chicago you will enjoy the slicing and dicing of Mayor Daley politics.
Click here to see Columnist Eric Zorn website
You can also read the entire rhubarb by clicking here.
NOTE-- This edition of the Rhubarb Patch breaks with format in order to allow two advocate/newsmakers with opposing views to have a detailed discussion of their issue.
* The Players are: *
*John Birch at www.Concealcarry.org*
John Birch, President of Concealed Carry, Inc. (P.O. Box 4597 Oak Brook Il. 60522-4597 Tel: 630 660-3935 Fax: 815 327-1152. http:// www.concealcarry.org. "I retired from the US Army in 1995 having served in the 82d Airborne Division, then as a Counterintelligence Special Agent and finally as an Inspector General retiring at the rank of Major. I spend my time `Saving Lives By Arming Citizens' as President of Concealed Carry, Inc. My company advocates the passage of a concealed-carry law in Illinois as well as holding a Federal Firearms License to lawfully arm the citizens of Illinois."
*Thomas Mannard director of the Illinois Council Against Handgun Violence*
Thomas Mannard executive director of the Illinois Council Against Handgun Violence ( 223 West Jackson Blvd. Suite 1106 Chicago, Illinois 60606 Tel. (312) 341-0939 Fax: (312) 341-9770 http://www.ichv.org/index.htm -- "I have been Executive Director of the Illinois Council Against Handgun Violence (ICHV) since November , 2000. Prior to joining ICHV, I worked as an independent political and public affairs consultant. My clients included both state and local elected officials as well as state and national associations. In the area of gun control, I worked with the Million Mom March during the 2000 election cycle. Additionally, I have worked as a lobbyist for the Illinois Hospital Association and served on the staffs of U.S. Representative William Lipinski and Illinois House Speaker Michael Madigan. I hold a bachelors degree in political science from Marquette University. My wife Kelly and I have two children-- Quinn, 4 and Jane Shea, 1."
Gun Control supporter
* The first shot fired in a 10 round battle of exchanges*
To Thomas Mannard, The Illinois Council Against Handgun Violence
From John Birch, Concealed Carry, Inc.
I'd like to start the Internet side of this rhubarb by thanking Eric Zorn for allowing me to borrow his readers and to thank you, Thomas, for participating as my opponent in this important public safety debate.
In the following primer on violent crime reduction I will be quoting you in italics and by the end of the day I am pretty sure you'll be sitting with us on the right side of this issue.
the risks of having a gun actually far outweigh the benefits, particularly for women. According to FBI homicide data from 1998, 302 women were murdered in handgun homicides for every one time a women used a handgun to kill a stranger in self-defense.
So if we take away the women's guns the statistic will change to 303 dead for every life not saved? Your own numbers prove our point: Guns Save Lives!
According to the National Crime Victimization Survey every day 550 rapes, 1,100 murders and 5,200 other violent crimes are stopped just by showing a gun. In less than 0.9% of the time is the gun actually ever fired. .
In the course of meeting with Concealed Carry, Inc. members many incidents have been related to me by Chicago gun owners who thwarted crime by the expedient of simply brandishing a gun. Every time I ask them if they called the police after the incident they say; "No, because the police will come and arrest me and take my gun away." Victim as criminal? Only in Chicago folks.
* and continues here *
Cut and paste if necessary: http://ericzorn.com/rhubarb/concealedcarry
As George W Bush said last fall you are either against terrorism or you are against us.
Bottomline, Either Illinois gun owners hang together and prevail, or we self defense gun owners hang alone and die.
Yes, powerful. And enlightening in the way the two "combatants" answered each other, one with complete emotion and regurgitated "facts", and the other with facts straight from the source for criminal statistic truth (thats a little aggrandizement, but you get the gist :)
Anyways, thanks for the post and bump. I'm really excited to see how the anti-gunner responds to Mr. Birch's finale.
...most people don't need statistics to tell them that more guns on our streets is going to mean more lost human lives...
Unfortunately, my days of taking multiple choice exams ended years ago so as you stated, the answers to your questions will have to stay between myself and my moral conscience...
I don't think we have time to get into a discussion about the Second Amendment, that's for another Rhubarb...
It's too bad the pro gun control people insist they are reasonable and yet, in the end, refuse to reason.
Yes I agree. You can see by his reponses he is a light weight regarding this issue and is only a figure head without facts.
Yep For those that follow this 2nd amendment issue can see this Mr. Mannard is a light weight when it comes to the hard facts of life.
emotion is is middle name.
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