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Machiavelli - Quotes Justify the Man
Personal Archives | 04-22-02 | PsyOP

Posted on 04/22/2002 5:41:17 PM PDT by PsyOp

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To: PsyOp
If anyone desires a people or a prince to abandon all ideas of a peaceful settlement with another, then there is no more certain and effectual way than to make them commit some outrageous act against those with whom you wish to prevent them from making peace. - Niccoló Machiavelli,

This is probably one of those things Bill didn't learn at Oxford.

It kept him from having a Nobel prize.

61 posted on 04/23/2002 6:35:47 PM PDT by tet68
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To: SauronOfMordor;TopQuark
Underneath this layer, however, is the attitude that one's own self, family, group is more worthy of life than an attacker, and (in the extreme) an attacking group may be exterminated, if necessary, to preserve one's own. This is what I'm talking about when I speak of "the Roman foundation" -- the will to survive that can unleash extreme savagery when the layers of charity, consideration, and politeness are stripped away

Great analysis! I hadn't separated the Moral layer from the Nationalist layer. I've kind of adopted the idea that the Constitution and the idea of freedom form a kind of Nationalist ideal which our current govt hardly lives up to, but the Socialist Govt we're stuck with is limited in how much additional damage they can do by grass roots activists trying to reestablish the principles of a true Constitutional Republic. In essence We the People are the final fourth Check and Balance. Without a better background in political science, I wonder if the upcoming generations are going to be as good an instrument of guidance to the other three branches.

Maybe the determining factor for the survival of a socialist regime wrapping itself in a Constitutional Republic's guise is when sedition, outside threats or economic intrusions are viewed by a sufficient majority as no worse than the state of affairs in the govt at the time. But what a horror to think that the Constitution's Principles would perish from humanity. There is a dignity and aesthetic to letting people have freedom to direct their activities to what their hearts desire with as little intrusion by the will of the mob as possible. A recognition of the potential in each person that is greater than any religious system...Maybe its just progress worship...I don't know...It gives me hope. It sounds like Europe has lost even that.

62 posted on 04/23/2002 11:34:53 PM PDT by sleavelessinseattle
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To: sleavelessinseattle
In essence We the People are the final fourth Check and Balance.

At the time of the adoption of the Constitution, the feds had no power to do ANYTHING without the general support of a majority of the people. The US had just finished with the Revolution, the people were armed, and they had military experience

Consider this scenario: you are a bureaucrat tasked with enforcing an unpopular law. You have a paper on your desk telling you to arrest Joe Shmoe. You know that Joe is armed, all his neighbors are armed, they're trained to operate together as a military unit, and they don't like you. If you were the bureaucrat, how likely would you be to "lose" that order into your wastebasket?

The unique thing about American life was that power and authority flowed from the bottom up, rather than the top down. Local law-enforcement was done by sheriffs who were elected by the locals, rather than being appointed by a provincial governor who was appointed by the King. There were lots of local authority figures who could serve as rallying points for insurrection. This is slowly being chipped away as local authorities grow increasingly dependent on federal funds, and thus become puppets of federal authorities

63 posted on 04/24/2002 9:31:46 AM PDT by SauronOfMordor
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To: SauronOfMordor
Oh come on. A seminal event in the formation of the American Republic was when unpaid soldiers surounded the Congress in Philadelphia to demand their due.

The Congress begged the Governor of PA to intervene. He refused. Congress swore to get its' own domain, it's own army to protect itself.

Things calmed when Robert Morris wrote promisory notes to the soldiers. Hamilton amazingly orchestrated their payment before expiration, so Morris didn't have to make good personally.

I hate to deny your notions of virtue in 1784, but it just ain't so. It was all a big, happy accident that came of the right people and the right principles at the right time.

The other crucial beginning to the nation was George Washington's dream of a canal along the Potomac River to bring the bounties of the Ohio Valley eastward, and vice versa. He forced upon the VA legislature, largely against its will, the Potomac Corporation (more or less this name) that joined Maryland and Virginia in a joint venture... the first act of interstate commerce in the land.

64 posted on 04/29/2002 8:33:48 PM PDT by nicollo
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To: All

"The reformer has enemies in all those who profit by the old order and only lukewarm defenders in all those who would profit by the new order..." —Niccolo Machiavelli

65 posted on 06/27/2006 9:20:32 AM PDT by PsyOp (Fear, not kindness, restrains the wicked Metus improbos compescit, non clementia. Syrus, Maxims.)
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To: PsyOp

Came back here after doing a google search.

Machiavelli understood politics.

66 posted on 04/19/2013 7:16:11 PM PDT by Loud Mime (Liberal: A person who charges their grandchildren for today's party)
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