College Students Weak on Fundamentals, Says New Study

CNSNEWS.com ^ | 4/25/02 | Christine Hall

[kattracks]

(CNSNews.com) - A multiple choice quiz given to 167 seniors at state-run universities in Arizona show most of the students breezed through the questions dealing with pop culture but flopped on the questions dealing with U.S. history, science, math and literature. The National Association of Scholars, headquartered in Princeton, N.J, conducted the study.

Even though nearly two-thirds of the students taking the quiz had a grade point average above 3.0, the group as a whole received a passing grade in just four of eleven subject areas included in the quiz.

"The Arizona study provides us with direct confirmation of the failure of university graduates to have learned what Americans have a right to expect their public universities to teach," said Glenn M. Ricketts, public affairs director of the National Association of Scholars.

The 167 seniors were asked 40 multiple-choice questions, ranging from "Who was the father of the U.S. Constitution?" to "[When does] an object have a positive electric charge?" and were also instructed to "Identify Snoop Doggy Dogg."

The students scored highest on the pop culture question: over 90 percent identified Snoop Doggy Dogg as a rap music performer. But they bombed on constitutional authorship (14 percent), along with issues pertaining to forces of the universe (14 percent), statistical probability (16 percent), the Gettysburg Address (21 percent) and other history, science, math, literature, arts and civics subjects.

"One certainly hopes that this report's recommendations for the adoption of a common undergraduate core curriculum will be taken seriously, in Arizona and elsewhere," said Ricketts.

Edward L. Hudgins, Washington director of the Objectivist Center, developed a different conclusion from the study.

"Low scores on these questionnaires certainly are an indication of problems with the educational system," said Hudgins. "However, I suspect a more basic and root problem is the dumbing down of grades and standards in universities and the failure both at the pre-college and the college level to teach people to think, to use their reasoning mind."

Whether college students can pinpoint the year the Civil War ended is less important than other skills, Hudgins believes. "It is this ability to think and reason critically that allows us to discover the facts necessary to do our jobs or to be good citizens or to make good judgments," he explained.

Another study conducted in 2001, this one by the California Academy of Sciences and Harris Interactive, found the American public similarly coming up short on its knowledge of science.

More than half of all American adults (53 percent) did not know that the Earth goes around the Sun once a year. Nearly half (48 percent) did not have a sense of what percentage of the Earth's surface is covered by water. And 42 percent did not know whether the earliest humans lived at the same time as dinosaurs. Just over a third (35 percent) of college graduates were able to respond correctly to all three questions.

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[Buffalo Bob]

[ladylib]

I bet they know about multiculturism, extreme feminism, extreme environmentalism, diversity, tolerance for homosexuality and transgendered people, various perverted sexual practices -- everything they need to know to get along in tomorrow's One World government. Do you know what a threat they would be to the New World Order if they knew anything about American history, European history, Great Books, the various sciences and using the scientific method, math, etc., etc.,? These kids are just going to roll over and die and play into the hands of the powers that be because of their ignorance. And that's the way it's supposed to be doncha know -- bread and circuses for the masses. American public schools have successfully completed their mission.

[Lil'freeper]

Shucks - I could have told them that! I wonder how many millions of dollars were spent on this exercise in "Well, DUH!"?

[arielb]

there is hope

[Skooz]

American public schools have successfully completed their mission.

Daschle's minions. No wonder the last election was so close.

[dawn53]

My 14 year old is homeschooled. No genius, just a usual kid. I had to have him tested recently, as law in our state requires standardized testing at the end of the year.

Well, math he did fine, reading and english skills he did fine, but the category that covered general subjects which included history, science and the humanities, he hit one out of the park. (I think his age equivalent was 30 years old or something outrageous like that, which basically means that he'd score the same as a 30 year old being given the same test.)

My take on this was that just everyday normal information that a person should know is not acquired now until the person hits their late 20's.

Probably this is due to the dumbing down of curriculum.

[CWRWinger]

Today's college students are not entirely ignorant about the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. They are well acquainted with the parts that support, "...the pursuit of happiness."

[TxBec]

[Republican Wildcat]

Sadly, that's where things are headed where I am currently going to school. There's an "eco-feminist" coming to speak to us today on campus. As of now, the curriculum hasn't gone completely to pot, but with the start this year of a "women's studies" discipline of study, we are on our way there.

[regularAmericanWhiteMale]

Congratulations Dawn. Keep up the good work. If it were possible I would also take the home-school route for my kids.

[helmsman]

Some of the stupidest people I've known have been college educated. And let's remember that a large percentage of university profs still believe faithfully in the idiocy that is communism/socialism, so this story doesn't shock Helmsman terribly much.

[Looking4Truth]

Man, I love that graphic. Not for the Britney part, but definitely for the message.

[Aquinasfan]

What really shocked me was something I read recently in National Review. In many state universities, as few as 33% of college graduates graduate in four years, with as many as 35% graduating in six years.

College is the second greatest hoax ever perpetrated against the American people, following just behind public "education."

[weikel]

Thats what you get when you quiz Women's studies and hyphenated American studies majors( well I would probably flop in the lit test part too).

[weikel]

It really depends on your major...

[Motherhood IS a career]

I agree that public education in this country has gone to crap.

However, in testing, I wonder what exactly is the point of asking questions about pop culture. Of course they're going to know more about pop cultrure than anything else. (What a surprise!) We're all constantly inundated by that stuff in the media. So unless I stare at the floor at the supermarket checkout, even I can become informed. I'm embarrased to admit that I happen to know more about Snoop Doggy Dog than I ever cared to find out.

These tests are a waste of money. However, if they're proving what we, here, have known all along, then I say let them conduct them. The real question is, what to do about the results.

[Tijeras_Slim]

In many state universities, as few as 33% of college graduates graduate in four years, with as many as 35% graduating in six years.

Some state universities have instituted "anti-slacker" rules for just this reason. Very little makes me more tired than hearing some 24 year old latte-sucking, dredlocked junior trustafarian whining about how "We're going to be the first generation who's standard of living is less than our parents." For a bunch of lazy socialist luddities, they have a pretty well developed sense of entitlement and automatic "progress".

Whew, I feel better now...

[banjo joe]

I'm with ya on this. Can this be by design? Yes, if you read the writings of Dewey (father of American gov't education). Another good read is Thomas Sowell's "Inside Education", in which he assigns blame to american schools of education being a shelter for the lowest achieving 25% of college students. So, we have dummies "educating" the dummies. Wonderful.

[Paleo Conservative]

"The Arizona study provides us with direct confirmation of the failure of university graduates to have learned what Americans have a right to expect their public universities to teach," said Glenn M. Ricketts, public affairs director of the National Association of Scholars.

Fifty years ago high school graduates would have been expected to have learned this material. This is pathetic.

[doc30]

Less than half the students in the study reported to be "liberial arts" majors. The second biggest group in the study was business majors. I wonder how many business majors would like to be required to take classes in art appreciation, poetry, physics, chemistry, biology, world history, american history, world politics, american politics, music, etc.

I wonder how many of these students were science or engineering majors? In those disciplines, logical thinking is mandatory for passing courses. Simple memorization is insufficient and the questions are sufficiently quantitative to inhibit professor bias.

When I was in college (chemistry major), my friends and I would typically take the same social science courses together. THis was the first time I had ever been graded on a curve. On the final exam, the class average was around 45%, but we all had raw grades in the mid 90's. After the bell curve, we all had grades above 120%! THis is anecdotal evidence of how much more demanding the hard sciences are compared to the liberal arts in college.

If these liberal arts students approached a chemistry course with the same discipline they use in their major, they would not only fail miserably, but they would more than likely injure or kill themselves in the lab! There was some sarcastic jealousy on our part regarding the degree of work they had to do and how they actually had the time to party every day or participate in the social cause du jour.

What really separated us from them were the availability of careers and the associated starting salaries. No one in my class had to work at 7-11 after graduation!

[Tijeras_Slim]

I agree with your assesment about commuter schools, etc... and my criticism is not aimed at those who work their way through school (I know a physicist who worked 3 jobs to get through). It's the full time subsidized professional students that chap my a$$.

[stainlessbanner]

dumb student bump

[steve-b]

Man, I love that graphic. Not for the Britney part

I hope you're female -- FR has enough homosexuality flame wars already. ;-)

[yawningotter]

To recall an all-time great quote from another thread-Some people are educated beyond their intellegence. (I wish I could take credit for that one.)

[maxwell]

Well I'm trying to get on the AZ site to take the test but it's not connecting. I sure the heckles know what positive charge is.

[maxwell]

Some people are educated beyond their intelligence.

That's classic... Very nice...

[RWG]

American Public Schools are filled with the children of American Parents. American Parents are the cause of the failure of the school system. Some of those American Parents even win elections running as members of the GOP.

[Stand Watch Listen]

We have been hearing of similar studies since the 1970's and always with the same results. So what happens? More studies? More funds thrown at education?

Just when is the social engineering curriculum going to be negated in our school? Just when are the parents going to be fed up with these schools' results? We have hindered over two decades of students with these curriculums. Hindered their future, their potential, possibly their livelihood. We are squandering our nation's future, its soul.

[Stand Watch Listen]

In many state universities, as few as 33% of college graduates graduate in four years, with as many as 35% graduating in six years.

Perhaps it is because so many students co-op their Junior/Senior years. Perhaps it is the so many prerequisites (touchy-feely) in the Freshman/Sophmore years are so outside the chosen field of study that addition time/classes is needed for the major field of study.

Many disciplines (i.e. architecture/engineering) are slated for five full years of study. At many univeristies architecture students just about sleep/live in their labs. Pharmacology degrees used to be a five year program, now many are a full time SIX year program.

[Stand Watch Listen]

indexing


Here are links to various education threads (also containing numerous helpful links)

FReegards

History of America's Education Part 2: Noah Webster and Early America
Source: Sierra Times; Published: March 27, 2002;
Author: April Shenandoah

How Communist is Public Education?
Source: sierratimes.com; Published:March 22, 2002;
Author: Chuck Morse

History of America's Education Part 1: Johnny is in trouble
Source: Sierra Times; Published: March 20, 2002 ;
Author: April Shenandoah

Audit rips Georgia schools' curriculum
Source: Atlanta Journal-Constitution; Published: March 11, 2002;
Author:JAMES SALZER

Why schools fail: Samuel Blumenfeld warns Bush's education legislation is ineffective
Source: WorldNetDaily.com; Published: March 2, 2002;
Author: Samuel Blumenfeld

Public School Isn't Like I Remember It
Too Good Reports; Published: February 28, 2002;
Author: Phyllis Schlafly

What Is Lacking In Our Educational System
Source: Too Good Reports; Published: February 28, 2002;
Author:| Ben Cerruti

The charade of education reform
Source: WorldNetDaily.com; Published: February 2, 2002;
Author: Dr. Samuel L. Blumenfeld

American public schools: Working just as designed
Source: WorldNetDaily.com; Published: January 21, 2002;
Author: Vox Day

High Schools Fail Thanks To Grade Inflation And Social Promotion
Source: Toogood Reports; Published: December 5, 2001
Author: Vin Suprynowicz

WHY AMERICANS CAN’T READ
Source: Accuracy in Media; Published: December 4, 2001
Author: Reed Irvine and Cliff Kincaid

The Failing Teacher and the Teachers' Code of Silence
Source: CNSNews.com; Published: December 3, 2001
Author: Glenn Sacks

Time for outrage! Linda Bowles reports latest results in America's public schools
Source: WorldNetDaily.com; Published: November 27, 2001
Author: Linda Bowles

Illiterate in Boston: Samuel Blumenfeld explains U.S.'s ongoing reading problem
Source: WorldNetDaily.com; Published: July 20, 2001
Author:Samuel Blumenfeld

NEA - Let our children go!
Source: WorldNet Daily; Published: June 23. 2001
Author: Linda Harvey

COOKING THE BOOKS AT EDUCATION
Source: Accuracy In Media; Published: June 5, 2001;
Author: Cliff Kincaid

Why Do Schools Play Games With Students' Minds ?
Source: The Detroit News; Published: April 1, 2001
Author: Thomas Sowell

The Public School Nightmare: Why fix a system designed to destroy individual thought?
Source: http://home.talkcity.com/LibraryDr/patt/homeschl.htm
Author: John Taylor Gatto

Dumbing down teachers
Source: USNews.com; Published: February 21, 2001
Author: John Leo

Free Republic links to education related articles (thread#8)
Source: Free Republic; Published: 3-20-2001
Author: Various

Are children deliberately 'dumbed down' in school? {YES!!!}
Source: World Net Daily; Published: May 13, 2001
Author: Geoff Metcalf {Interview}

Could they really have done it on purpose?
Source: THE LIBERTARIAN; Published: 07/28/2000
Author: Vin Suprynowicz

New Book Explores America's Education Catastrophe
Source: Christian Citizen USA; Published: April 2000
Author: William H. Wild

Deliberately dumbing us down (Charlotte Thomson Iserbyt's, "The Deliberate Dumbing Down of America"
Source: WorldNetDaily.com; Published: December 2,1999
Author: Samuel L. Blumenfeld

Deconstructing the Western Mind: Gramscian-Marxist Subversion of Faith and Education
Source: www.petersnet; Published: Winter 1997
Author: Frank Morriss

Littleton Crisis to Government Control

The UN Plan for Your Mental Health

[banjo joe]

The big push in recent years has been for *everyone* to get a college education. Thanks, but I don't care that my plumber or the counter personnel at the quick-mart have college educations.

[Don Myers]

This "revelation" should come as no surprise. We have a superficial culture indulged in by superficial people.

[Palmetto]

It really depends on your major...

Yep. I remember being in Freshman Chemistry with a lot of the other majors required to take it (Mechanical Engineering, myself). They once asked the Indian lab TA about "the curve." The TA responded, with a heavy accent, "Dare weeell be NO CURB." Lots of gnashing of teeth and talk of it being a "weed out" course, etc. etc.

It was about my senior year that I looked back and realized, that with the exception of my "social sciences" and "humanities" electives, they were all weed out courses. My courses got progressively more difficult to the point that they were near impossible.

I'll never forget sitting in senior Controls class. The professor was classic - jovial, easy to get along with, but he gave absolutely devasting exams. He would walk into the class about a week after an exam, smiling, shooting the breeze as he walked in...guys would be chewing on their pencils, biting their nails, and he would begin to write the exam statistics on the board, starting with the range of scores, from the bottom up. First score, 9. Second score, 13. The guys in the back would start yelling epithets - "Bast***!" "Son of a bi**!!" His expression would never change, just smiling away.

There were lots of guys who didn't graduate that semester...

[weikel]

I hate the ones who seem nice and then give nasty exams without warning( especially if it differs from the homework problems) those are the evil ones.

[RightOnline]

"Fifty years ago high school graduates would have been expected to have learned this material. This is pathetic."

I will respectfully beg to differ.

Fifty years ago, junior high school "graduates" would have been expected to have learned this material.

[Jasper]

"College is the second greatest hoax ever perpetrated against the american people......"

You can say that again. I was looking through the employment ads in the paper yesterday and was astonished at the number of employers that require a prospective employee to possess a bachelors degree for entry level non-technical positions.

[conserve-it]

kOLLEDGE sTUDUNTS WEEK? MI HOW STREIGHNGE!!

[Palmetto]

the first course we had to take was the infamous "205" with a brilliant chinese prof. who had PhD's in Mathematics/Physics/Engineering. He told us in the beginning of the semester that only about 10 to 15% were going to be here at the end of the semester. Damn if the boy wasn't right.

Reminds me of a story my ChemE roommate related to me about his Asian professor for a junior-level class. At the very beginning of the semester, he assigned a voluminous amount of work, to which he dryly commented in a classic Asian accent, "I know you gonna hate it."

I lost count of how many students we lost to the business department. I know we graduated only a fraction of those that began as sophomores.

Started with about 70 students and at the end we had less than 10. I got the only "A" -- he he.

Congrats...I'll relate only one similiar story (there aren't that many!). That same tough controls prof (who was my research advisor) taught a graduate-level Vehicle Dynamics class that I took as an elective while an undergrad. First exam was the same story - over 80% of class was below 40. I was proud to have a solid B - the second highest grade in the class made almost entirely of grad students.

[delphine]

College is the second greatest hoax ever perpetrated against the American people, following just behind public "education."

Not true. There are two types of majors that are (still) worthwhile, that I know of. The first is buiness-style majors, where you learn a specific skill set for the job market. Not exactly a liberal education, but useful. American universities still do a good job of teaching the sciences, to the science students. It's not a requirement anymore, but a student who really wants to learn about one of the hard sciences can get a very good education at an American university. Now, the liberal arts and humanities...well, they're been taken over by the pod people.

[elephantlips]

East coast bias?!!!! The founding of our country has nothing to do with where the capitol resided or the events surrounding it. I don't blame the San Francisco earthquake for happening in San Francisco and therefore I don't have to read about it because it's not local to me. For crying out loud!!!!!

[Aquinasfan]

but a student who really wants to learn about one of the hard sciences can get a very good education at an American university. Now, the liberal arts and humanities...well, they're been taken over by the pod people.

You're right. I was generalizing. One reason why I went to engineering college was to escape the pod people.

However, I consider engineering and business schools to be glorified "trade schools." Nothing wrong with that, but these schools do not provide a true classical education, which is hard to come by these days. The only worthwhile Catholic colleges that I know of are Thomas Aquinas, Steubenville, Ave Maria, Christendom and someone mentioned that Catholic University of America has turned around. But that's about it.

[Aquinasfan]

I was looking through the employment ads in the paper yesterday and was astonished at the number of employers that require a prospective employee to possess a bachelors degree for entry level non-technical positions.

I work in an advertising department, and I can tell you that some highly skilled people work here. Yet not one of them requires a college degree to perform their duties, as far as I'm concerned.

What the hell is this preoccupation with degrees? I can understand it in technical fields, but in business? Fuhgedaboudit.

I often ask people if they think college degrees are necessary for most jobs, and every person admits that they're not necessary for most jobs. But they quickly qualify their position by saying that "most companies demand a degree."

So the question is, why? If something stupid is going on in the economy, it's usually the result of some government policy. I haven't yet figured out what that is. Any ideas?

[ladylib]

Charlotte Iserbyt also wrote a book about the dumbing down of American education. I haven't read it, it's supposed to be huge, but she basically says that dumbing down is done on purpose.