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Get It Straight -- The hypocrisy of blaming gays for sexual abuse by priests.
Slate ^ | April 24, 2002 | William Saletan

Posted on 04/25/2002 10:00:49 AM PDT by Incorrigible

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To: moderation_is_not_a_bad_thing;khepera
Are you really prepared to have the government tell consenting adults what they can or can't do in the privacy of their own bedroom?

No one cares what happens in the bedroom. Guess what? They already do! Homosexuals want it to be very public and open. Laws are broken all the time such as sodomy with no one arrested. It doesn't make it legal, yet!

61 posted on 04/25/2002 11:39:39 AM PDT by wwjdn
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To: moderation_is_not_a_bad_thing
Excellent point!! So, is a person homosexual if they are attracted to the same sex, or are they only homosexual if they act on it?

Act, Otherwise I am a pedophile for being attracted to a young girl.

62 posted on 04/25/2002 11:40:45 AM PDT by VRWC_minion
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To: moderation_is_not_a_bad_thing
Hmmm..... I'm curious..... did you CHOOSE to be attracted to the opposite sex?

Ah, this tired old line yet again! Don't you guys ever come up with anything new?

Attraction to the opposite sex is the biological norm.

Acting upon an attraction is a chosen behavior!

In fact, under what conditions could I "choose" to be attracted to men? I just don't see it.

Discounting the sort of things that occur when men are placed in sexual isolation, it would require a lot of work to make sure a perversion acceptable to a mentally stable and healthy human being. You'd probably have to start very early, in the child's formative years, by teaching them that homosexual behavior was perfectly acceptable from a moral, personal, and society view. Also teach them that anyone who disagrees with this is hateful. Make up a nonsense term, such as "homophobia," to describe this otherwise normal reaction to degeneracy.

Continue this teaching thoughout the child's schooling so as to sexualize the child before they are emotionally or mentally ready to deal with all of the issues concerning human sexuality, particularly the abberent variety.

Make sure that no mention of morality is permitted! The lone exception being to continue to rail against "homophobia!"

As the young man enters into adolescence and his hormones begin to rage, tell him that any "confusion" concerning homosexuality is proof that his is a homosexual.

I think you'd have had to undergo such a major psychological manipulation to have a normal child willfully accept homosexual behaviors.

The person who is actually attracted to the same sex without such manipulation is simply ill and in need of treatment to recover from their illness.

63 posted on 04/25/2002 11:43:39 AM PDT by FormerLib
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To: Incorrigible
The reason why the Homos want in to the Boy Scouts and the Service is for the same reason they sneaked into the seminaries.

Sexually normal people had better wake up before these sexual deviants get their political agendas advanced any further.

Now TRANSSEXUALS and CROSS-DRESSERS are given the same protection as ethnic and religious groups in New York. How revolting!!!

64 posted on 04/25/2002 11:44:41 AM PDT by ZULU
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To: moderation_is_not_a_bad_thing
So, is a person homosexual if they are attracted to the same sex, or are they only homosexual if they act on it?

If a person is attracted to the same sex, they are suffering from Same Sex Attraction Disorder and they are in need of treatment.

If they act on it, they are a sexual degenerate.

65 posted on 04/25/2002 11:45:33 AM PDT by FormerLib
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To: moderation_is_not_a_bad_thing
Doesn't anyone else see a contradiction here? Is it hypocritical?

No more than it is for Republicans to have the government enforce that "Thou shalt not murder" thing.

66 posted on 04/25/2002 11:47:12 AM PDT by FormerLib
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To: Incorrigible
Well, according to last Friday's New York Times, there are 46,000 Catholic priests in the United States; 30 percent to 50 percent of Catholic seminarians are gay; and lawyers for victims "claim to have lists of more than 1,000 priests accused of abuse in the United States." If you assume the worst—that only 30 percent of priests are gay

Worst case is more like 1-2% are gay. Where do they come up with 30-50%???? It is amazing how they create facts to make a point.

67 posted on 04/25/2002 11:49:37 AM PDT by Always Right
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To: Campion
Hence, the ideal solution is to stop ordaining men, and start ordaining African violets.

Why only African violets? Sounds racist to me.

SD

68 posted on 04/25/2002 11:50:23 AM PDT by SoothingDave
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To: Hibernius Druid
Do any Freepers know whether that seminary is a sanctuary, so to speak, for gay seminarians and priests?

From what the Wanderer has reported, Mundelein is part of the lavender mafia.

SD

69 posted on 04/25/2002 11:51:19 AM PDT by SoothingDave
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To: Incorrigible
Saletan is so busy polishing his "moral equivalency" arguments that he can't see fundamental reality staring him in the face.

Heterosexual attractions are *normal* and *natural* for men. Further, it is *normal* and *natural* for men to find teenage girls (16-17) attractive. In more primitive societies girls are still married at very young ages. There are good reasons to do this if you live in a primitive culture where childbirth is dangerous and life expectancies are short (i.e. 99% of human history.)

However, that was then, this is now. No matter how much some men would like to fool around with 16-17 year olds, those girls are still *jailbait.* Even so, the fundamental attraction is NOT abnormal - it just needs to be deferred a year or two and hopefully the attraction is directed toward the right outcome - marriage.

This does NOT mean that homosexual and heterosexual attractions to teenagers are in any way morally equivalent, or that in either case they should be acted upon. But the heterosexual attraction is a built-in, natural part of perpetuating the race, while the other is fundamentally disordered.

This doesn't mean I think gays should be persecuted, beat up, etc. Nor does it necessarily mean that gay sex acts should be illegal for those over 18. But the homosexual attraction is not, and never will be morally equivalent to the heterosexual one.

70 posted on 04/25/2002 11:51:52 AM PDT by ikanakattara
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To: FormerLib
No more than it is for Republicans to have the government enforce that "Thou shalt not murder" thing.

If both parties consent, it's wholly different than murder. If one party does not consent, their rights have been violated and the government is entitled to step in. That's the same for hetero- and homosexual behavior.

71 posted on 04/25/2002 11:54:12 AM PDT by NittanyLion
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To: SoothingDave
Why only African violets?

I believe they are the only ones that do really well potted. Lord knows we don't want any of that wild variety getting in!

72 posted on 04/25/2002 11:55:05 AM PDT by FormerLib
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To: NittanyLion
If one party does not consent...

Can the mentally ill consent?

73 posted on 04/25/2002 11:55:52 AM PDT by FormerLib
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To: NittanyLion
If both parties consent, it's wholly different than murder.

Duh, almost forgot. If both parties do consent, does that mean that it is no longer murder? Nope, it's still a murder. Go ask Kevorkian if you don't believe me.

74 posted on 04/25/2002 11:57:18 AM PDT by FormerLib
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To: FormerLib
If both parties do consent, does that mean that it is no longer murder? Nope, it's still a murder. Go ask Kevorkian if you don't believe me.

Or, go ask the voters of the State of Oregon. They have a different interpretation, which is why they've legalized assisted suicide.

Can the mentally ill consent?

No.

75 posted on 04/25/2002 12:01:36 PM PDT by NittanyLion
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To: fporretto
I can agree with the first part of your argument, i.e., “Homosexuals, therefore, are attracted to the priesthood in disproportionate numbers,” but I would add that the culture of homosexuality which is currently being revealed within the ranks of the priesthood, most specifically in seminaries, has allowed those who, as homosexuals, are attracted to this “enormous, unsupervised authority over the young” to flourish. The “filters” in some seminaries either no longer exist, or worse, they are filters that screen out heterosexuals and/or those who believe in conservative Catholic doctrine.

With regard to your second argument, you negate the ability of men to overcome their carnal desires and sublimate them into good works. It’s no surprise that in our “if it feels good, do it” culture, there are many who simply believe that this state of “positive” celibacy is beyond man’s reach – in fact, there are many who apparently believe celibacy to be more abnormal than homosexuality. This argument ignores the good done by celibate priests through the centuries – yes, there have been abuses in every age, and perhaps the current crisis is one of the worst in memory – but it does not negate man’s ability to overcome his carnal desires for the greater good.

It were better that the Church had far fewer, celibate priests, cardinals and bishops of moral integrity than thousands who use the sacred trust of their office to defile the young.

76 posted on 04/25/2002 12:04:00 PM PDT by browardchad
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To: Incorrigible
Saletan uses the term "gay" with reckless abandon--a deliberate attempt to obfuscate.

1. A "gay" priest is a sexually-active priest. Therefore, every "gay" priest is a bad priest, and should be gotten rid of.

2. MOST of the cases of abuse involve "gay" priests because the abuse was committed on adolescent/young adult males. This is a reason, in addition to #1, to dismiss "gay" priests.

3. A chaste homosexual priest is, by definition, not a molester of anyone. There is no reason to attempt to root out who, among chaste priests, has same-sex attractions, because all chaste priests are non-molesters.

77 posted on 04/25/2002 12:05:21 PM PDT by Arthur McGowan
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To: SoothingDave
Mundelein is part of the lavender mafia.

I haven't seen The Wanderer and they don't seem to have a website. Have they reported recently on Mundelein being a hothouse for gays? Is Cardinal George doing anything about it? (I thought he was going to reverse the Bernardin openness to gay seminarians and priests.)

78 posted on 04/25/2002 12:05:38 PM PDT by Hibernius Druid
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To: Hibernius Druid
Mundelein ("Fundelein") is notoriously bad among the notoriously bad.
79 posted on 04/25/2002 12:06:39 PM PDT by Arthur McGowan
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To: moderation_is_not_a_bad_thing
If you are into Theology: Deviants are against god. If you are more into science: Deviants are against nature.

My comments on this subject are sure to offend those who are deviants or liberals who want to promote the same. Of course, deviants can take it as an insult, but it is an honest assessment. To be a practician of gay behavior and look for public support of the same is insulting. When gays wanted equal rights, that was one thing. However, they prove time and again that it is not enough untill they have defined deviancy down enough that it becomes the norm.

You have yet to see me get hostile, but you should check your dictionary if you do not know the meaning of the word. There are deviant behaviors that are commonly described in the vernacular of today's news reports that were unspeakable before Clintoon came to town. His first challenge was gays in the military.....which shows what the rest of his term would be about.

80 posted on 04/25/2002 12:12:42 PM PDT by RasterMaster
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