Skip to comments.They Were Socialists, and They Were Monsters!
Posted on 04/26/2002 2:06:21 AM PDT by handk
The following was transcribed from "The Hour of the Time", hosted by William Cooper:
"Listen to this very carefully. Scoot up next to your radio. I don't want you to miss a word. I don't want you to miss anything. I have told you over and over and over again, for years. I wrote it in my book (click on book cover image below to access Amazon.com, the book's title is "Behold A Pale Horse"); my book's been in print for years, that this is a Nazi thing. The Nazis are coming. Socialism. Nazi means, "National Socialism". The Nazi Party was called the "National Socialist Workers Party."
The most shop-lifted book in Amercia!
Do you understand what I'm telling you? There is no such thing as oppression on the right. There is no such thing as Nazis on the right. There are no Fascists on the right. A scale measures opposing states.
All the way on the left you have total control, all the way on the right you have the absence of any control. All the way on the left it's called "Communism," where the state owns and controls everything, even you, and even your underwear. It's where you pretend to work and they pretend to pay you. It's where if you say the wrong word you disappear forever. It's where they have millions and millions of people in labor camps doing slave labor. It's where pogroms are held and whole populations are murdered, slaughtered, one-by-one, any political opposition is murdered.
All the way on the right is total absence of control. it's called anarchy! Anarchy is terrible. it means if I see your shirt and I want it, I just shoot you in the head and take it, and nobody cares. Except you, and you're dead.
In between is the range between these two things. Just above Communism are Nazis. Somewhere in the middle is a Republic, which is the United States of America. This is not a democracy, never was, it was never intended to be. If you don't believe it, read the writings of our Forefathers, who warned us against democracy."
[Reading]: "During the past several months in the American press, the Democrats have frequently denounced the Republicans and other people on the right -- the militias, patriots, Christians -- as Nazis, due to their attempt to control runaway federal spending. How very ironic! I remember the Nazis, and let me share with you a little about them and recall some of their exploits."
[Cooper speaking for himself]: "This letter appeared in the Arlington Washington Times, on June 7, 1995. It's a letter to the editor, and I'll tell you who wrote it at the end. Listen to every word ladies and gentlemen, you're not going to believe what you hear, but it is absolutely true!"
[Words appearing in brackets below and bold-faced are those of William Cooper, adding comments as he reads the letter]:
"During the past several months in the American press, the Democrats have frequently denounced the Republicans and other people on the right -- the militias, patriots, Christians -- as Nazis, due to their attempt to control runaway federal spending. How very ironic! I remember the Nazis, and let me share with you a little about them and recall some of their exploits.
First of all, "Nazi" was gutter-slang for the verb "to nationalize". The Beider-Meinhoff gang gave themselves the moniker during their early struggles. The official title of the Nazi Party was "National Socialist Workers Party of Germany." Hitler and the Brown Shirts advocated the nationalization of education, health care, transportation, natural resources, manufacturing, distribution and law enforcement." [Hello? Anybody home? One ringy-dingy... Does that ring any bells for you folks? Let me continue...]
Hitler came to power by turning the working class, unemployed and academic elite against the Conservative Republic. After Der Fuhrer's election, the Nazi Party ceased being a political conspiracy and was transformed into a fashionable social phenomenon. Party membership was especially popular with educators, bereaucrats, and the press. Being a Nazi was politically correct. They called themselves, and this is an exact quote; "The Children of the New Age of World Order," and looked down their noses at everyone else.
As Hitler accrued more power, he began referring to his critics as; "...the dark forces of anarchy and hatred." Anyone who questioned Nazi high-handedness and the German press was branded a "conservative reactionary."
Joseph Goebbels, Minister of Communications, proclaimed, and I quote exactly; "A New World Order." The Nazi reign of terror began with false news reports on the radio and in the newspapers. Paramilitary groups of Poles, Jews, Bohemians and Gypsies were said to be arming themselves to overthrow the "New World Order," and Hitler demanded that "all good people register their guns so that they wouldn't fall into the hands of terrorists and madmen," and that's a direct quote; "...fall into the hands of terrorists and madmen."
"Right-wing fanatics" of the old order who protested firearms registration were arrested by the SS and put in jail for "fomenting hatred against the government of the German people."
Then the Reichstag [which was the "seat" of the German government, just like the our American equivalent, the U.S. Capitol building in Washington, D.C.] was blown up and Hitler ram-rodded an emergency anti-terrorist act through Parliament that gave the Gestapo extra-ordinary powers. The leader then declared that for the well-being of the German people, all private firearms were to be consfiscated by the Gestapo and the Wermacht [which was the federal law enforcement and the military.]
German citizens who refused to surrender their guns when "the jackboots" Gestapo came calling were murdered in their homes. By the way, the Gestapo was the Federal Marshall service of the Third Reich. The SWAT Team was invented and perfected by the Gestapo to break into the homes of the "enemies of the German people."
When the Polizei, Bewalken (or local police) refused to take away guns from townsfolk, they themselves were disarmed and dragged out into the street and shot to death by the SA and the SS. Those were the Nazi versions of the BATF and the FBI. When several Lutheran ministers spoke out against these atrocities, they were imprisoned and never seen again.
The Gestapo began to confiscate and seize the homes, businesses, bank accounts, and personal belongings of wealthy conservative citizens who had prospered in the old Republic. Pamphleteers who urged revolt against the Nazis were shot on site by national law enforcement and the military.
Gypsies and Jews were detained and sent to labor camps. Mountain roads throughout Central Europe were closed to prevent escape of fugitives into the wilderness and to prevent movement and concealment of partisan resistance fighters.
Public schools re-wrote history and Hitler Youth Groups taught children to report their parents to their teachers for anti-Nazi remarks. Such parents disappeared.
Pagan animism became the State Religion of the Third Reich, and Christians were widely condemned as "right-wing fanatics". Millions of books were burned first, and then people. Millions of them burned in huge ovens after they were first gassed to death. Unmarried women were paid large sums of money to have babies out of wedlock and then given medals for it.
Evil was declared as being good, and good was condemned as being evil. World Order was coming and the German people were going to be the "peacekeepers".
Yes. Indeed. I remember the Nazis, and they weren't republicans or right-wing or patriots or militias, they were Socialists and they were monsters!"
[Cooper]: And this letter was written by Thomas Colton Ruthford from Arlington, Washington. Did any of that sound familiar to you? It is word-for-word what is happening in the United States of America, as I have told you many, many times before.
What happened in Germany during Hitler's rise to power, is exactly what is happening in the United States of America today!
And if you don't want to believe it, and if you want to sit on your lazy sheep butts until they come and drag you out in the street and shoot you, then you go ahead and do it. There's a lot of us who ain't gonna be there with you. Got that? [End of transcript]
This is a joke, right?
We know better know.
The author is dead on.
The point is there are extremes on both sides of the major political spectrum and the Nazi movement was very much associated with the extreme right. I really don't know why acknowledging that would be such a problem, unless someone would identify with such beliefs. And oppresive regimes were both ruled by the extreme left and right (Hitler, Franco, Mussolini, Stalin, Mao etc...)
Nazi, rather National Socialist Workers' Party, can not be on the Right. Socialism is ALWAYS on the Left, just like communism.
Therefore, how could Nazism be associated with the Right with the word "Socialist" in the title? That doesn't make sense.
Actually, no. By comparison to the tyranny promulgated by socialists, all other points of the political spectrum are small beans by comparison. Overall deaths caused by "right-wing dictators" are far higher than those caused worldwide by socialism (including communism).
The numbers are something like 130,000,000 from socialist/communist regimes vs. 29,000,000 for all other forms (mostly "right-wing" of despotism. Rudy Rummler has studied this in great depth and has tons of statistics. If you are interested, I''ll try to find my reference link to his info and post it.
If you study the history of the rise of Hitler you will find that most of his recruits came from the Communists. In Mein Kampf Hitler rants against the old order. This was only natural, since both the Communists and the Nazis hated the old order in Germany: the remnants of the monarchy. They both wanted total control of government and the economy. The fight between the Communists and the Nazis was more of a civil war than anything else.
In the end, the German people voted for Hitler because, believe it or not, he appeared more moderate. The political and economic elite accepted him because they believed he could be controlled. Of course they were wrong, but by then it was too late.
Under Hitler a great deal of the German economy was nationalized. What was not taken over, was controlled by the government to provide the resources for the German war machine.
The last time I saw troops goose stepping was at a May Day parade in Moscow.
The original author leaves out some facts that don't support his line.
He says...Then the Reichstag [which was the "seat" of the German government, just like the our American equivalent, the U.S. Capitol building in Washington, D.C.] was blown up and Hitler ram-rodded an emergency anti-terrorist act through Parliament that gave the Gestapo extra-ordinary powers.....
Just a second. The Reichstag fire was blamed on Communists by the Nazis. Also there's that distinction about private property. Socialists/Communists want(ed) to totally get rid of it. Nazis didn't.
This is an interesting debate but I think it mainly depends on how you look [or were taught to look] at the political spectrum; as a half-arc, a circle (with communism and fascism meeting at the bottom) or something else.
During the era of the Soviet Union, much of their policy and thinking was clearly fascist and nationalistic. In fact after WWII, the Russians were so enamoured with the various Hitler youth songs, they simply translated them into russian and changed the color of the armbands their youth troops wore. You can't have a centrally controlled means of production and be right wing..full stop.
the nazis were neither national nor socialist. did you know that when the war was lost, hitler gave the 'nero' order? that meant destroying all industry and blowing up the mines to leave nothing to the enemy. and he ordered the whole population to kill themselves because 'who does not win is not worthy'. he was not anything more than a madman playing chess, just like stalin.
communism does not work and the communism we had on this planet developed very fast to a dictatorship. if we really had the kind of people we need to get a working communism, we could take any other form of government and it would work brilliantly, too.
If a frog had a glass ass he'd only bounce once!
You were right in the previous sentence....communism doesn't work...............PERIOD. Reason: men were born to be free, made by God to be free! Freedom is in the genetic make up of human beings. You can pontificate about history, you can debate theories, but you can't deny that where ever there is tyranny, and slavery, a man, or a group of men have risen to fight it. Think about that for a while!
Sound familiar? It's called class envy and its liberal liberal liberal.
Furthermore the Nazis were known specifically for hatred of Jews. Yet look at America. Look at the world. It's the left that hates Israel. The right for the most part is sticking up for it.
For another thread on the subject see here The Nazis were liberals
Perhaps it was trendy at the time to call yourself a socialist to go against the system? To try to get the Communist constituency? I'm not sure why they called it nationalsozialismus just as I'm not sure why Zhirinovsky calls his party the "Liberal Democratic" Party today...it's like the "Democratic People's Republic of Korea"
Using your interpretation that Socialists always go on the left, where does that put "Libertarian Socialists" (those anarcho-utopian-socialist types)?
There was no private property in NAZI Germany. Former owners were allowed/required to keep paper title to property but the state controlled totally the disposition of assets and land of ALL types. When the state tells an "owner" what he WILL do (not can do or may do) with his property then that owner owns nothing. Property and the means of production were socialized in Germany just as they were in the USSR. Both states were run on the same theories. Yhe Soviet version was merely a "purer" (on paper) form. Such systems always show local variation in the details and in the superficial arrangements but they are the same.
Leftists cannot understand this because they are concerned primarily with symbols and labels rather than reality. NAZI must be on the opposite end of the political spectrum because Nazis are not controlled from the Communist center, not because their ideas are any diferent. They have a separate set of personnel and that is anathema to the other socialists. It is sort of like the Hell's Angels and the Pagans. They are the same thing but hate each other with extreme passion.
Stalin's ideology was that he believed Stalin and his friends should control everything, including the means of production. Hitler's ideology was that he believed Hitler should control everything, including the means of production.
The ideologies are very similar, except for a small detail which made them quite incompatible despite their similarities.
Ha! "Libertarian Socialists" is an oxymoron. Those two words are mutually exclusive (and, no, I'm not a Libertarian).
Be that as it may, these types are on the Left.
Also, communists and socialists are both on the Left. They have not always agreed with one another, but both are way over on the Left side.
The definition problem arises when you let Communists make the definitions
For many decades, "The Left" was defined as "the people who support the USSR", and "The Right" as "the people who oppose the USSR". So you get Libertarians, Jeffersonian Republicans, and National Socialists being labeled as being "the same".
Hitler and Stalin had the exact same philosophy: total government control of all aspects of life. Hitler and Stalin only differed in WHO WAS TO BE IN CHARGE. That was their only real difference. Hitler thought that Aryans were geneticly superior, and Stalin thought that the proletariat were superior. Hitler got his main support from the clerical workers, Stalin from the assembly-line workers
But once their systems had been in place for a couple of generations, it would have been hard to distinguish them
The author of the article has a different definition of Right and Left, as he lays out. People who are in favor of total government control are on the Left, and people who want minimal government control are on the Right. So, going from Left to Right, we have Stalin, Mao, Pol-Pot at the extreme Left; Hitler & Mussolini not so far to the Left; Welfare Statists to the moderate Left; Ronald Reagan to the moderate Right; Libertarians or various flavors further to the Right; and radical anarchists to the extreme Right
I agree. However we try to understand or classify Extremism we can only recognise it for what it is.
Using your interpretation that Socialists always go on the left, where does that put "Libertarian Socialists" (those anarcho-utopian-socialist types)?
Simple, they're socialists. They are also liars who are publicly denying their true agenda, which is the ridiulous vision of global socialism. Granted, a great many of them are useful idiots who simply have no clue.
I am probably the most right wing in this forum. I have no use for any government at all. That's anarchy, the real right wing.
Correct. The National Socialists were a more moderate version of the Communists. They were less fanatical about the abolition of private property, and the National Socialists killed somewhat less people than the Communists
If you subtracted Hitler's anti-Jewish position from the rest of his platform, most Leftists on FR would probably have voted for him.
If you recognize people in three classes:
I can at least imagine why some weaklings want to be nannied, but I have never understood why anyone would want to run someone else's life. Don't they have anything of their own to do?
If all men were angels, any sort of government would be workable -- I forget who first said it
What distinguished the Founders of the US, was their recognition that any position that wields power, will be lusted after by the power-mad. The only solution is to greatly limit the power of government, so as to limit the damage that the power-mad can cause
In the last 90 years, we've forgotten that important point
Power is essentially the ability to punish those who annoy you. Some people have a big thing on being able to whack anybody who "disses" them. This has implications on where the next batch of Storm Troopers will be recruited from.
My reading of German history recounts that Hitler was recruited by the German Army to infiltrate and spy on the early version of the Nazis. He did that, found he liked it, was good as a speaker and became its leader.
Over time he attracted both backing and money from numerous sources. Many Germans supported Hitler because he was strongly nationalistic and fought pitched battles with Spartacists who eventually became the Communists.
In the turmoil that followed WW 1, Germans were disenchanted with the Weimar Republic which created hyperinflation, vast unemployment and was blamed for enforcing the Treaty of Versailles. Bringing Hitler into the government was supposed to calm the German troubles.
Tragically wrong. But Germany of the 1920s and 1930s was a tragedy in the making. Nobody created Hitler except Hitler (with the unwitting help of the French and their stupid determination to make Germany pay for past humiliation). Never underestimate the stupidity of European politicians.
WRONG: Hitler was both a NATIONALIST and a SOCIALIST...!
He was a an EVOLUTIONIST-RACIST-ELITIST-UPPERMENCHIN-SOCIALIST holding a DARWINIST WORLDVIEW (Survival of the fitist among socialist worldviews)!
THE "real" ENEMY in his worldview was Soviet/International/Socialisms! THE "real" ENEMY was the Soviet Socialists at the Gate!!!
(America & Britain were to him NOT the "real" enemy! They were merely 'dupes' of the Internationalist Planners!
He knew the Soviet-Socialists were 'at the gate' and THAT is the ONLY REASON that he ORDERED THE "NERO" order!!!
To him, the Phoenix , then, would 'rise' again!
Socialism's Marxist/Fascism/National-Internationalism is still, "THE GOLDEN EVIL EMPIRE"!
(Now, not YET again, an 'Iron Curtain', but the fantacy/promise of a "Golden Curtain" believed only by the truely "Media-Brainwashed".
(The "Golden Curtain's" very own International Worker's UNION and Peoples' Party 'collective' slave prison.)
(be sure to pick a 'good' number, "Work Makes Free".)
It's inlighting when you consider the typical anti-Jewish racist stereotype
Racist stereotypes of Jews are unique as racist stereotypes go, arent they portrayed as the ultimate rich capitalist man?
Isnt their rant and propaganda the same you just change the name of the boogman
Rich evil corporate world conspiracy oppressing the common man (class based boogman)
Rich evil Jewish world conspiracy oppressing the common man.(race based boogman)
Consider two street gangs fighting over the same neighborhood. They may be enemies, but that does not put them on opposite ends of the political spectrum.
The point is there are extremes on both sides of the major political spectrum and the Nazi movement was very much associated with the extreme right.
I really don't know why acknowledging that would be such a problem, unless someone would identify with such beliefs. And oppresive regimes were both ruled by the extreme left and right (Hitler, Franco, Mussolini, Stalin, Mao etc...)
Your statements above could only be made if you base them on the fallacy that a "political spectrum" contains governmental "oppression" at both ends. Obviously, English comprehension is not your strong suit. Public education?
"A scale measures opposing states." Do you comprehend? Shall I dumb it down for you?
Left, right, it's irrelevant. The point is: a true political scale goes from total oppression on one end to total anarchy on the other end.
You're obviously hung up about "right-wing".
If you say so.
Actually Rome got so bad as well, but then you were sold into slavery, you could even become a gladiator and die. (they didnt have gas chambers yet), and your entire family, if you didnt pay your taxes. Which paid for the non-productive, and those programs. So, in essance the slaves became masters over the masters... The non-productive socialists/communists who said things like, "TAX THE RICH" .....became masters over the persons who were productive and owned things because of their production. I actually pity the socialist/communist, upon further look, they are voting for people providing "freedom" and dont even know what the word means. They certainly didnt recognize the fact, they were giving up their freedoms. And certainly with government controlled schools, the real information wont be taught. ie: true economics. Though it is true, the Nazis were more "special", they also had to kill off people of a religion. Actually, Rome did that too.
THE TAXES BECAME SO HIGH, THE PRODUCTIVE COULDNT PAY FOR IT. AND THAT LADIES AND GENTLEMAN, IS HOW AN ENIRE SOCIETY IS ENSLAVED, WHICH IS THE INTENTION.
freedom is mostly self-limitation in the sense of 'i dont want that to happen to me...so i wont do it.'. you decide your mix of freedom and safety. more freedom, less safety, same the other way round.