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Gay Catholics Struggle With Scandal
AP ^ | 5/5/02 | AP

Posted on 05/06/2002 7:06:08 AM PDT by anniegetyourgun

PHILADELPHIA- Mary Louise Cervone has been a practicing Roman Catholic all her life and, as a lesbian, has long hoped for acceptance from the church.

But finding a welcoming place has never been easy and now with the clergy sex abuse scandals raging in dioceses across the country, Cervone and other gay Catholics feel that homosexuals are being scapegoated by church leaders.

Most of the victims of priestly abuse are adolescent boys, leading some Catholics to conclude that there is a link between homosexuality and the abuse of minors.

Philadelphia Cardinal Anthony Bevilacqua last week called homosexuality an "aberration, a moral evil" and said the archdiocese tries to screen out gay priests, suggesting that they were more likely to commit child abuse.

And 100 gay advocates protested outside St. Patrick's Cathedral in New York City on Sunday after Monsignor Eugene Clark reportedly made similar comments April 21. The New York Archdiocese has said Clark was speaking for himself and not the archdiocese.

Clinicians say no credible data exists on the number of abusive priests who are homosexual and there is no evidence that homosexuals are more likely than heterosexuals to molest children.

Cervone, the president of Dignity/USA, a national gay Catholic activist organization, thinks homosexuals are being unfairly targeted.

"It's wrong," she said. "There's no data to support it. There's not even any data collected by the Catholic church. It's the arrogance of the church leaders, this feeble attempt to blame the whole crisis of clergy on the gay community."

Francis DeBernardo, executive director of New Ways Ministry, a Maryland-based gay Catholic advocacy group, said the organization has been getting calls from concerned gay priests and parishioners.

"It's a new phase of anger toward church leaders," DeBernardo said.

Sister Mary Ann Walsh, a spokeswoman for the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, said the recent statements do not reflect the usual church stance, which is that homosexual or heterosexual men can be priests if they are celibate.

She added that the church does not reject gay Catholics. What it teaches is that being homosexual isn't a sin, but being a sexually active gay is.

"I think the church tries to be open to all Catholics who are accepting of the church's teachings," Walsh said. "It's a difficult point for homosexual Catholics that the church condemns homosexual activity."

Both Dignity/USA, which has been banned from meeting in Philadelphia churches, and New Ways plan to speak on behalf of gay Catholic rights at the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops' general meeting in Dallas beginning June 13.

Over the years, such efforts have become more common as gays have fought for greater acceptance in the church.

"As gay people become more accepted in society, more Catholics are coming out," said Donal Godfrey, an Irish Jesuit priest who is working on a doctorate at the University of San Francisco.

"If you look at the life of Jesus, he was close to people who were marginalized. If we're meant to be following him, people who are marginalized should be comfortable in our churches."

The number of gay Catholics is hard to judge, but DeBernardo said he believes it is around 10 percent, roughly similar to some estimates of the general population.

Some wonder why homosexuals would stick with the church. Gay Catholics say their faith is a piece of their identity.

"It isn't an option for me," said Tom Streeper another member of Dignity in Philadelphia. "That's the way I was raised and it's part of who I am."


TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: catholic; catholiclist; homosexualagenda
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To: ThomasMore
Hence, the need for discussion of "excommunication" policy by the bishops (not just on this but on pro-abortion politics, etc.). You are right about the "tough love" in that the mere threat of "excommunication" is intended to shock the person out of their serious sin. I think that just by discussing that they "might" do this would help bring some moral clarity.
101 posted on 05/06/2002 2:00:37 PM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
but on pro-abortion politics

I've always been a proponent of excommunicating the likes of Ted Kennedy and Jack Reed and numerous other Catholic politicians for the pro-abort stance. It may yet happen!

Home for supper! Talk to you later.

102 posted on 05/06/2002 2:04:38 PM PDT by ThomasMore
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To: HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
As I see it, the main problem here is not the distorted numbers -- I agree that the number of Catholics among the laity who are active homosexuals is, if you'll pardon the expression, being blown way out of proportion (even if I do happen to think that the number among the clergy is underestimated!) -- but the fact that the nominal Catholics in Dignity and the priests and bishops who enable them in their sin -- as well as their secular counterparts -- are trying to coerce the Church in America to alter its traditional moral teaching. I fervently pray that enough of the vermin associated with Dignity and secular gay activists will mouth off in Dallas to make it brutally clear that these people are enemies of our beloved Church and force the bishops to publicly condemn them.
103 posted on 05/06/2002 2:15:21 PM PDT by eastsider
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To: BibChr
Homosexual acts place one outside of the grace of Christ, but not outside the Church.
Whoa. You'd have to 'splain that one to me, if you've the patience.

And isn't openly saying "Ptui! on God's declared law of sexuality!" excommunicable?

We have all sinned, and in effect all said Ptui on God's declared law. Most of us probably have some sort of sexual sin in our past, and certainly we have all lied, or gossiped, failed to honor our mother and father, etc. All these things are times where we have said Ptui on God's law.

Sexual sins aren't any different here, just more common perhaps, and in the case of homosexuality, more serious. Any sin is contrary to obedience to Christ, right? Once you are Baptized Catholic, you are a Catholic. You will likely sin at some point after that, barring an early death. Despite that sin you remain a Catholic because you still bear the mark of baptism. It may be the equivalent of saying you are a CINO (Catholic in Name Only) in a sense, but your sin cannot erase the mark of baptism. It does, however, bring you a warm and toasty afterlife.

patent  +AMDG

104 posted on 05/06/2002 2:23:14 PM PDT by patent
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To: patent
a warm and toasty afterlife.

LOL!

105 posted on 05/06/2002 2:25:42 PM PDT by ELS
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To: ALL
COPPER SUNDAY ALERT!

106 posted on 05/06/2002 2:25:43 PM PDT by history_matters
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To: anniegetyourgun
The Catholic Church says, officially, being Gay is a mortal sin. The term "Gay Catholics", seems a bit absurd given that little tidbit.
107 posted on 05/06/2002 2:29:20 PM PDT by Republic of Texas
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To: Askel5
If you don't practice the ACT of homosexuality, how can you be gay? i.e., "carry a hammer your whole life, no one calls you a carpenter, but suck one...."
108 posted on 05/06/2002 2:31:36 PM PDT by Republic of Texas
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To: eastsider
"...blown way out of proportion..."

Forive me if I... LOL!!!

OK, but seriously... There are a couple of weird things going on here. One is that you have this goofy dialectic between contemporary, postmodern, secular concepts about sexuality (coming from American counter-cultures) and the application of the Church's teachings on sexuality by the hierarchy in official policy announcements. Segments and factions of the clergy and laity in America think the Church should "modernize" and accept the new sexuality. This is presented almost as if modern psychology and social science "prove" modern sexual attitudes to be 100% scientifically beneficial for mankind and, therefor, necessary for the Church to adopt as new norms. It's true that we know more about the bio-chemistry, neurology, psychology, and sociology of sexuality now. But we seem to have forgotten basic common sense about it as well. There's a kind of utopian mentality at work that the birth control pill, abortion, Viagra, and casual promiscuity will lead us back to Eden. Ironically, the childless career woman in her 40s is starting to question this sophistry. AIDS clinics are proof that sodomy is life-threatening. And yet some still persist in the delusions.

The other thing going on has been this waffling and wiggling by bishops and church leaders on a host of issues. Handling the homosexual abuse crisis as primarily a bureaucratic legal matter or a PR matter has been disastrous. The homosexual abuse is part of a larger picture of abuses within the American Church which have been ignored for too long. The organized and orchestrated dissent (and other lunacies) in Catholic higher education and in seminaries really needs to end. Any group advocating the active gay lifestyle has no business in any Catholic institution or at any Catholic conference. That makes about as much sense as having any of the or sex orientation mafias at Catholic institutions. Period. Homosexuals need to work these things out privately with their therapists on in the confessional. We pray for them but we really don't need to hear their personal revelations or manifesto jargon. Sodomy should return to the closet.

109 posted on 05/06/2002 2:34:20 PM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
Homosexuals need the help of this apostolate in the Catholic Church:

COURAGE

110 posted on 05/06/2002 2:37:34 PM PDT by history_matters
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To: BibChr
And isn't openly saying "Ptui! on God's declared law of sexuality!" excommunicable?

It is sin. Excommunication is an external action separating a Catholic from the Church for certain specific actions. It is essentially a public sanctioning of a person. In the past, lifting an excommunication was reserved to a bishop (in the case of procuring an abortion, that can now be done by a priest in the confessional).

Homosexual acts, while heinous and grievously sinful, do not merit a public separation from the Church.

Does adultery, in your mind, merit excommunication?

If everything that one thinks is terrible becomes subject to excommunication, then the sanction loses its "hammer value."

111 posted on 05/06/2002 2:44:31 PM PDT by sinkspur
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To: HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
Any group advocating the active gay lifestyle has no business in any Catholic institution or at any Catholic conference.
Now, if only we can get the bishops to agree ...
112 posted on 05/06/2002 2:51:01 PM PDT by eastsider
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To: sinkspur
Thank you again!

Does adultery, in your mind, merit excommunication?

You're asking me, as a Biblically-oriented Christian, my view? If someone engaged in adultery and advocated the practice and denied that it is sin, then yes, absolutely, it qualifies under the descriptions found in Matthew 18 and 1 Corinthians 5.

That's the parallel I see, since you ask. The lady in question is not "struggling against" lesbian temptations. She "is" a lesbian, liked being a lesbian, intends to stay a lesbian. That, to me is the issue.

Dan

113 posted on 05/06/2002 2:53:02 PM PDT by BibChr
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To: Askel5
Have we got Catholic FReepers down there who could attend and tape for us?

I have never known the Dallas meeting, which I think they have every year, to be an open meeting. In fact, I have never known it to get any press coverage at all. It'll be different this year though.

The pro-lifers have been pleased in the past about the caliber of speakers they have had to speak to the bishops on the life issues. We need to pray for these men attending this Dallas meeting. They need the intestinal fortitude to do the right thing and not continue to let the homosexual agenda have any credibility with them.

114 posted on 05/06/2002 2:55:03 PM PDT by Slyfox
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To: eastsider
I sort of wonder how much pedophilia and homosexuality are really more common now or whether they were just better covered up and kept quiet in the past. The subject of homosexual abuse (adult male on teen male sex) is certainly a wider problem than just that among some clergymen. Supposedly a lot of homosexual prostitutes are quite young. This is obviously an under-reported subculture and social problem. Like white slavery and the sex trades in Asia and the Middle East. Sex is not always "fun" contrary to the popular model exhibited in TV and films.
115 posted on 05/06/2002 3:15:39 PM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: history_matters
If any group is allowed to speak on behalf of Homosexual rights for Priests the Catholic Church can kiss the Most of their Parishioners Goodbye.

There should be a purge of ALL HOMOSEXUAL PRIESTS from the church whether Active or Not.

The Church does not allow for Homosexual priests and states that they are disordered.

Based on recent Empirical Data the abuse and coverup of the rape of Children is from direct acts of Homosexual Priests and from direct and indirect support from Bishops and Cardinals for their own reasons.

Do we need more of this Horror or have we seen enough?

116 posted on 05/06/2002 3:45:05 PM PDT by chatham
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Comment #117 Removed by Moderator

Comment #118 Removed by Moderator

To: Goldhammer
One would assume this information has been out there for a while, available to both the media and the FBI, together with Shanley's NAMBLA association. How long have California authorities known of Shanley's activities one wonders. Seems like a lot of authorities have been asleep at the wheel.
119 posted on 05/06/2002 9:09:40 PM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: usconservative
I could be wrong here, but how can one be GAY and a Practicing Catholic? Homosexuality is forbidden in the Catholic Church, isn't it? Isn't this just another attempt by the lamestream media to "normalize" homosexuality?

It is also the quintessential definition of phariseeism. The gays work so hard for their practice to infiltrate the Church and now that they see results, they pretend to be condemning it! Such hypocrites. In the Gospel, our Lord shows compassion to sinners, but goes abolutely ballistic against pharisees and hypocrites.

120 posted on 05/07/2002 12:15:22 AM PDT by sfousa
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To: eastsider
Any group advocating the active gay lifestyle has no business in any Catholic institution or at any Catholic conference.

Now, if only we can get the bishops to agree ...

I couldn't, for the life of me, understand how our bishops fail to see that. I was 16 years old when I first learned of a homosexual relationship going on between a priest and a boy my age. This was in 1960, the early days of Vatican 2. I couldn't understand how a priest could do such acts at night and in the morning got up to the altar to celebrate Mass and RECEIVE COMMUNION. To my young mind, it was a sacrilege of the vilest kind!

As I said, I was 16 at that time. One should hope that our Bishops are much older and wiser today than I was at that age!

121 posted on 05/07/2002 12:32:56 AM PDT by sfousa
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To: eastsider
Hopefully people will read your posting. Maybe there will be more understanding from the (straight people) if they know that there are gays that practice chastity and are truely practicing Catholics.
122 posted on 05/07/2002 1:09:01 AM PDT by .45MAN
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To: chatham
If any group is allowed to speak on behalf of Homosexual rights for Priests the Catholic Church can kiss the Most of their Parishioners Goodbye.

Nope. There have been worthless, vile bishops all along. St. John Chrysostom (born in 347 AD) remarked that the floor of Hell is paved with the skulls of bishops. That's a powerful statement, indicating that the bishops of his time were at least as corrupt as American bishops are today. And yet the Church survived. The Church will recover from this, and I'm staying in.

123 posted on 05/07/2002 6:23:10 AM PDT by Steve1789
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To: sfousa
Assuming this occurred in the Philippines, it's more anecdotal evidence that this is a worldwide problem.
124 posted on 05/07/2002 8:19:25 AM PDT by eastsider
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To: .45MAN
In our battle against the enemies of the Church's traditional moral teaching concerning homosexuality, it's important to raise conservative Catholics' awareness of the good men and women of Courage lest they take friendly fire.
125 posted on 05/07/2002 8:54:01 AM PDT by eastsider
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To: goldenstategirl
Bump
126 posted on 05/07/2002 10:15:18 AM PDT by EdReform
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To: sfousa
Unfortunately a great many of our Bishops and cardinals are Homosexuals and go along with the idea and Practice of Homosexual Priests.

Really Sad!

127 posted on 05/07/2002 1:47:55 PM PDT by chatham
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To: eastsider
Assuming this occurred in the Philippines, it's more anecdotal evidence that this is a worldwide problem.

It was the only case of sexual misconduct by a priest that I've ever known personally, so I can't tell you anything about anecdotal evidence outside the US. Also, that priest was American - a Maryknoll Missioner named Fr. John Lennon, who was the director of my high school for some five years. His teen-age partner was a 16-year-old Filipino boy, my classmate in high school, who impregnated my then best-friend (girl), and therefore HAD to marry her.

It was my friend who shared with me the details of her husband's homosexual relationship with this priest.

I felt so sorry for my friend, as she was very devastated about it even as she helplessly tried to be non-judgmental. After all, it was about the two men she was most fond of - her husband and her priest! Both she and I wondered if we had missed anything taught in school?

The current crisis in the Church bring back these unhappy memories, even though my then best-friend and I have since lost touch with each other. The last time she wrote me 15 years ago, there was not even a mention of her husband's name.

And the priest, what had happened to him? A search in the internet revealed that after his stint in the Philippines, Fr. Lennon left Maryknoll and became a US military chaplain in Vietnam. Then, as a diocesan priest, he was assigned to Cardinal Hayes High School in New York were he was from, originally.

I wonder if anybody ever knew about his homosexual activities in the Philippines and perhaps elsewhere, but I couldn't find anything else about Fr. Lennon, except in this link with the Bronx newspaper: http://www.bxtimes.com/News/2000/1130/School_News/51.html

128 posted on 05/07/2002 4:57:33 PM PDT by sfousa
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To: Goldhammer
Ewww. Barf! Hitting some of those links you have posted there was kind of like hitting links to Satan's world below. Disgusting.
129 posted on 05/07/2002 5:18:23 PM PDT by AmericanInTokyo
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To: Goldhammer
Ewww. Barf! Hitting some of those links you have posted there was kind of like hitting links to Satan's world below. Disgusting.
130 posted on 05/07/2002 5:19:04 PM PDT by AmericanInTokyo
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To: Goldhammer
Ewww. Barf! Hitting some of those links you have posted there was kind of like hitting links to Satan's world below. Disgusting.
131 posted on 05/07/2002 5:19:29 PM PDT by AmericanInTokyo
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To: chatham
Unfortunately a great many of our Bishops and cardinals are Homosexuals...Really Sad!

Really sad, Chatham. But are many of them practicing? I've always thought they were grossly negligent, indifferent, cowardly, even indolent - or worse, not prayerful enough. Where did you get the information that many of them are homosexuals?

132 posted on 05/07/2002 9:35:28 PM PDT by sfousa
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To: anniegetyourgun
Bump
133 posted on 05/08/2002 6:10:01 AM PDT by EdReform
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To: sfousa
Read the Papers from around the country.

Read Howie Carr's column last week on Cardinal Spellman and his boyfriend from Broadway Theater who visited with him regularly.

Visit the Roman Catholic website (www.rcf.org) and read through their information presented.

Visit www.nomorepeds.org, a site from the palm beach area put up by a prominent Catholic who has done a lot of work for the church.

Read the following books:

"The Changing face of the Priesthood" by Rev. Donald B. Cozzens

"Sex, Priests and Power" by A.W. Richard Sipe.

"Goodbye Goodmen", by Michael S. Rose Also read some of the recent stories from Ireland.

134 posted on 05/08/2002 6:32:06 AM PDT by chatham
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To: sfousa
Correction, should have read,(www.nopeds.org).

Sorry.

135 posted on 05/08/2002 6:35:45 AM PDT by chatham
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To: anniegetyourgun
Clinicians say no credible data exists on the number of abusive priests who are homosexual and there is no evidence that homosexuals are more likely than heterosexuals to molest children.

Anybody else as sick as I am of reading this statement?

"no credible data exists"? B.S.---- then GET some data, it ought to take all of about 48 hours to compile it!

136 posted on 05/08/2002 8:31:25 AM PDT by iconoclast
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To: iconoclast
It drives me nuts too. As authorities like Law cover for the pervs in the church, so mainstream media covers for it's favorite protected class.
137 posted on 05/08/2002 8:40:31 AM PDT by anniegetyourgun
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Comment #138 Removed by Moderator

To: chatham
Thanks chatham for this list. I'll start with the websites, then if I'm not totally grossed out yet, move on to the columns and the books.

I'm constantly haunted by what Pope Paul VI said before he died, that the "smoke of Satan" has infiltrated the Church - and of Our Lady's warning about "bishop against bishops." This crisis is almost apocalyptic in scope.

139 posted on 05/08/2002 11:07:47 AM PDT by sfousa
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To: sfousa
I don't see it as apocalyptic but there is a very long hard road ahead for the Faithful Catholics who Intend to clean out the garbage and place the church in its rightful place of respect and honor.

At Confirmation we became Soldiers of Christ and the War is at Hand and the general of the Enemies forces is Satan himself.

It is time to pray to St. Michael for guidance and we will win the war.

140 posted on 05/08/2002 6:27:37 PM PDT by chatham
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To: anniegetyourgun
There is a book out, the title GOODBYE GOOD MEN, that talks about the influx of homosexuals into the priesthood in the 70's which if you remember was the sexual revolution. This book from what I hear points out that despite what the media wants you to believe that these are homosexual men priest that have created this crisis in the church. The media would love for you to believe that these priests are hetrosexuals preying on children but this is not the case. The shortage of priests presented a problem so anyone was admitted during this time.

I and my husband were born and raised Catholic and he being ITALIAN even more so. My father-in-law knew where every nook and cranny was in that church and took care of the collection money etc.... A new priest came along right about 1978 who in most of our generation eyes was gay as a silver dollar. He immediately took over and left him with the duties he never wanted to waste his time with and also took away the collection money duty. My father in law had a run of the chuch because he did all the maintenance etc... One day he went to fix some things and found father Ted sunbathing naked with 2 other men in the back. This man in my eyes was a sorry excuse for a priest and when I hear about these current allegations I can't help but think back to him. Oh and of course by coincedence close to a year after taking the collection duty away he started driving a brand new convertible Mustang.

It really pissed him off when my husband and I got married in that chuch and we asked permission for another priest to perform the ceremony along with Father ted and then we never paid him. I really and truly forgot, but then just blew it off.

141 posted on 05/08/2002 6:55:05 PM PDT by GUIDO
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To: GUIDO
I have heard of the book, but have not read it...yet.
142 posted on 05/08/2002 6:58:39 PM PDT by anniegetyourgun
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To: anniegetyourgun
It's hard to find as you pretty much have to go and order the trade paperback from Goodbyegoodmen.com, but apparently Regnery is going to release it in hardcover this month.
143 posted on 05/08/2002 7:55:15 PM PDT by Conservative til I die
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