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Gay Catholics Struggle With Scandal
AP ^ | 5/5/02 | AP

Posted on 05/06/2002 7:06:08 AM PDT by anniegetyourgun

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To: KSCITYBOY
There may be 10% homosexual factor in the priesthood, but in the general population I would bet it's closer to 1%.Interesting. You don’t mind accepting a wild *** guess from the media about the numbers of homosexuals in the priesthood, but you fully reject the same wild *** guess from the media on the general population.

patent  +AMDG

81 posted on 05/06/2002 12:32:00 PM PDT by patent
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To: Aquinasfan
Both Dignity/USA, which has been banned from meeting in Philadelphia churches, and New Ways plan to speak on behalf of gay Catholic rights at the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops' general meeting in Dallas beginning June 13. _____________________________________ Dignity has, in fact, been banned by the Vatican from meeting in any Catholic Church.
Can someone reconcile these facts for me?
They plan to speak is not necessarily the same as the Bishops plan to let them speak. They often sit outside Cathedrals and protest. I would assume they and many other gay groups will be protesting outside this meeting as well, esp. given how closely the subject matter hits to their perversion.

In other words they plan to speak to the media on behalf . . .

patent  +AMDG

82 posted on 05/06/2002 12:34:03 PM PDT by patent
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To: born yesterday
Personally, I don't believe there is such a thing as a homosexual nature; rather, I believe all humans are sexual by nature, but that in the case of those who practice homosexuality, pederasty, etc., that nature is disordered.

I do, however, share your belief that there are bishops and cardinals within the Catholic Church who are practicing homosexuals and who preach a perverted gospel to suit their own needs; moreover, those bishops and cardinals who remain silent contribute to the problem. IMO, when the American Catholic bishops meet next month in Dallas, they must reiterate the Church's traditional teaching that homosexual acts are intrinsically evil, and publicly condemn those who trade the God-given truth for a secular lie.

83 posted on 05/06/2002 12:47:33 PM PDT by eastsider
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To: Askel5
"I could be wrong here, but how can one be GAY and a Practicing Catholic?

By living chastely."

They would not be *gay* then as *gay* implies an active lifestyle from what I gathered on threads last week (news to me too.)
84 posted on 05/06/2002 12:51:00 PM PDT by Domestic Church
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To: BibChr
How can this be? The RCC has one position on homosexual conduct, doesn't it? Why is she still an RCC? What hasn't she been excommunicated?

Homosexual conduct is a sin. Sinning makes one a sinner. It does not mean that one can no longer be a member of the Church.

Excommunication is reserved for certain grievous sins (like procuring an abortion) which are specifically spelled out in canon law. Homosexual acts place one outside of the grace of Christ, but not outside the Church.

85 posted on 05/06/2002 12:56:10 PM PDT by sinkspur
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To: HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
I agree that homosexual attraction is a sexual disorder; however, unlike the many Catholic hospitals that care for cancer and schizophrenia, the only Catholic organization that seems to care for those with same-sex attraction is Courage. Perhaps even more important, there are no media or secular activists encouraging Catholics to contract cancer or schizophrenia as normal expressions of human physical or mental health as there are media and secular activists encouraging Catholics to act on their homosexual attractions as normal expressions of human sexuality.
86 posted on 05/06/2002 12:58:59 PM PDT by eastsider
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To: Askel5
"Both Dignity/USA, which has been banned from meeting in Philadelphia churches, and New Ways plan to speak on behalf of gay Catholic rights at the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops' general meeting in Dallas beginning June 13."

"Have we got Catholic FReepers down there who could attend and tape for us?"

What the heck is the USCCB doing?! Are they seriously going to give these banned groups time at the general meeting? If they let them speak they condone their gay rights voice and incriminate themselves... then there indeed is a schism between the USCCB and the Vatican. They should be telling them to go form their own Gay Catholic Church(ie telling them to go jump in the lake.) Please send the taped precedings to Cardinal Ratzinger and Cardinal Hoyos. Should we start sending feather dusters to the general meeting?!
87 posted on 05/06/2002 1:03:13 PM PDT by Domestic Church
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To: Domestic Church
Both Dignity/USA, which has been banned from meeting in Philadelphia churches, and New Ways plan to speak on behalf of gay Catholic rights at the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops' general meeting in Dallas beginning June 13."

What the heck is the USCCB doing?! Are they seriously going to give these banned groups time at the general meeting? If they let them speak they condone their gay rights voice and incriminate themselves... then there indeed is a schism between the USCCB and the Vatican. They should be telling them to go form their own Gay Catholic Church(ie telling them to go jump in the lake.) Please send the taped precedings to Cardinal Ratzinger and Cardinal Hoyos. Should we start sending feather dusters to the general meeting?!

You are reading a lot into the word "at."

SD

88 posted on 05/06/2002 1:14:11 PM PDT by SoothingDave
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To: Domestic Church
I encourage you to send your comments to Bishop Wilton Gregory, President of the US Conference of Catholic Bishops at (202) 541-3000, or send email to him here in advance of next month's episcopal conference. I also encourage you to contact your local bishop, whose contact information you can find here
89 posted on 05/06/2002 1:19:23 PM PDT by eastsider
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To: anniegetyourgun
"If you look at the life of Jesus, he was close to people who were marginalized. If we're meant to be following him, people who are marginalized should be comfortable in our churches."

Sinners always try to use this line to justify their sin. Yes, Jesus did tell those who were planning to stone the adulterous woman "You who are without sin cast the first stone." However, he ALSO told the woman "GO AND SIN NO MORE!" He DIDN'T tell her to continue in her sinful ways and he'd love her no matter what.

Folks who don't want to give up their sinful ways turn farther away from God each time they sin. At some point, it will be too hard for them to turn back. God will be there waiting for them, but they may not make it back to Him.

90 posted on 05/06/2002 1:21:25 PM PDT by SuziQ
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To: eastsider
Valid points.I should have attached the [IRONY] label to the analogy. There are probably more Catholics suffering from cancer, mental illnesses, alcoholism or other disabilities, than from homosexuality or pedophilia. These people generally do not use an "in-your-face" posture of resentment to argue for their needs (which society also does not address entirely), nor do most of them argue for access to children or transforming the whole society to accomodate them. The politicization of sexual disorder is arguably a category mistake. It's primarily a health problem rather than at the top of the list of most people's political considerations (including most Catholics). Of course, there can be better medical and psychological assistance for this as well as the others. And there's nothing wrong with raising sensitivity issues in appropriate forums. Being sensitive to the nature of someone's disorder just doesn't require acceptance of the behavior choices which go along with it or special "group rights" linked with sexual orientation or specific sexual practices. I don't think normal people need to be forced by coercive public policy to accept the lifestyles of heterosexual swingers, swappies clubs members, S&M fetishists, prostitutes, erotic dancers, or nudists either. Has anyone ever suggested bishops "meet" with them to hear their needs and concerns?
91 posted on 05/06/2002 1:32:11 PM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: eastsider
Clearly, Dignity is mounting a major campaign against Catholic teaching at the upcoming episcopal conference,

eastsider,
..it's their last harrah! Their agenda is to change the sexual moral teachings of the Church at whatever cost. We are in a battle against evil. Taking to the streets is not a bad idea. I am primed and ready! I want my church back! And I want these liberal perverts out!

92 posted on 05/06/2002 1:32:23 PM PDT by ThomasMore
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Comment #93 Removed by Moderator

To: eastsider
Actually my last ironic suggestion might not be a bad idea - that bishops "meet" with other sexual deviants to learn about their issues. It might help to complete the picture of just how badly American society needs genuine and traditional Catholic morality. One could add pornography addicts to the list.
94 posted on 05/06/2002 1:37:29 PM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: BibChr
Why is she still an RCC? What hasn't she been excommunicated?

Good questions? As to the first, she has an agenda to destroy the traditional Church and Her teachings. The latter; I don't know. I can't, for the life of me, understand why she hasn't been excommunicated. All I can say is it has to be by her Bishop. If he's a "progressive" (modernist, liberal), and I could use other expletives (deletives), then he simply won't excommunicate her and she's safe. Maybe we can move Bishop Bruskowitz(sp?) to her diocese. He has never been afraid of excommunicating any one individual or group that perversely violates the faith.

95 posted on 05/06/2002 1:39:57 PM PDT by ThomasMore
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To: sinkspur
Homosexual acts place one outside of the grace of Christ, but not outside the Church.

Whoa. You'd have to 'splain that one to me, if you've the patience.

And isn't openly saying "Ptui! on God's declared law of sexuality!" excommunicable?

Dan

97 posted on 05/06/2002 1:47:54 PM PDT by BibChr
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To: ThomasMore
re: excommunication

That's a point which should be raised at the bishops' conference. It's an extraordinary penalty generally and historically reserved for the most severe expressions of evil (sacrilege, abortion, sorcery,etc.). The bishop can inform the individual personally and can instruct their pastor as well that they should refrain from Holy Communion as long as they persist in their opposition to church teaching. If they are a practicing homosexual or lesbian, they are not in good standing and this applies anyway. And quite obviously this applies to any priest who is also a practicing homosexual. There's a good case to be made that someone with strong homosexual tendencies just simply could not be entrusted with administering sacraments. A practicing lesbian is not a Catholic in good standing. That's just common sense. She's a Catholic in name only (like Ted Kennedy).

98 posted on 05/06/2002 1:49:00 PM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
It's an extraordinary penalty

I believe the Church sees it as "tough love". Sort of a last ditch effort to bring the dead back to life. I personally believe that Bishops/Priests/Deacons are a priority, as well as theologians and lay and clerical groups. These are entities that can really wreak havoc on the laity.

99 posted on 05/06/2002 1:55:51 PM PDT by ThomasMore
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To: BibChr
If you are a baptized Catholic, essentially you are always a member of the Church even if you have fallen away through sin. Homosexual or lesbian acts are considered mortal sins which disturb one's relation to God sacramentally in Catholicism. They are barred from "full communion" in the Church. The spiritual nature of the person is considered in the total context of eternity (time-wise). Sinners can still be considered part of the Church even when they are in the sinful state. Theologically, it's understood that God always makes available to them sufficient grace to repent. In her case, presumably, she hasn't done that yet. But she is still connected spiritually with the mission of the Church on earth and the "communion of saints." Theoretically and actually, people are praying for sinners (including this lesbian) to repent and so forth all the time. The baptized person, including the serious sinner, is not understood as entirely separated from their prior sacramental life and confessions of faith. So the "grace" is available, but in the divine mystery of its transmission, the Almighty is waiting for her response.
100 posted on 05/06/2002 1:57:47 PM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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