Posted on 05/08/2002 4:35:11 AM PDT by rw4site
Only 10 percent of Texas teachers believe a test should decide whether students are promoted or held back a grade, a recent survey found.
David Henderson, who has conducted the biennial teacher survey since 1980, said this is the first time he has asked teachers their opinion about the state's new testing policy.
Next year's third-grade class will be the first required to pass a state-required test in the third, fifth and eighth grades before they are promoted to the next grade.
As an education professor at Sam Houston State University, Henderson said he has trained prospective teachers to consider multiple factors when deciding if a child should be promoted.
"Being a test and measurement person, and teaching that for many, many years," Henderson said, "I always tell my class, `don't count on one test.' "
Henderson's survey was sent to about 700 teachers selected randomly from the Texas State Teachers Association membership list. About 50 percent responded.
The teachers overwhelmingly answered "no" to the question, "Should a single standardized exam determine whether a student gets promoted?"
However, in the same survey, 42 percent of the teachers said that social promotion -- or the practice of promoting students who do not have adequate academic skills -- is a problem. Two years ago, 91 percent of the teachers surveyed said it was a problem.
Gayle Fallon, president of the Houston Federation of Teachers, took issue with the way the testing question was worded, saying it does not fairly reflect the state's new policy.
"This is not a one-shot test," she said. "The whole idea of the social promotion bill was, `if they haven't mastered the skills, let's stop them, fix it, retest them and move them on.' His question doesn't reflect that."
Under state guidelines, students will be given three opportunities to pass the test before they are held back. Students who initially fail the test also will receive remedial help and free summer school instruction.
The survey, called Texas Teachers, Moonlighting and Morale: 1980-2002, also found that teachers on average spend $477 out of their pocket for classroom expenses.
The average teacher in this year's survey is 40, has 8.5 years of experience and earns $36,367 a year.
Twenty-two years ago, the average teacher was 37, had 11.8 years of experience and earned $14,113.
Henderson said the older teachers with less experience typify how a growing number of teachers are entering the profession after pursuing another career.
About 38 percent of the teachers in this year's survey said they are considering leaving the profession. That's the same percentage that considered leaving in 1980.
However in 1980, the biggest reason cited for leaving the profession was money. This year, most teachers say they are leaving because of working conditions, including stress, burnout, excess paperwork and hassles.
Henderson compiled the survey with his son, Travis Henderson of the Windham School District in Huntsville.
Do we have a 17 year old in third grade? That should be a mess. But the bottom line is, if one has a standard - any standard at all - a portion of the total won't be able to make the hurdle. So, what do we do with those who can't?
"Confucius say: Politics and Education don't mix!"
Secondly, I think we could take a lesson or two from Japan. Open high schools for competition, just they are open for colleges. Allow high schools to accept or deny students--allow students to go through intense testing and to apply for their desired (local) high school.
This will allow the cream to float to the top and to get a quality college prep education at the best nearby high school--while the more remedial students can go to high school if they so choose and learn basic topics that will enable them to have a non-college career (perhaps masonry, plumbing, basic computer operations).
Um ... George Harrison?
.. and when was the Cival War fought?
Um ... 1976?
One more, Johnny ...
How do you feel about homosexuals?
They're OK.
Congratulations Johnnie ... here's your college degree and an appointment for a job interview with the Welfare Dept.
"Bust size should determine when a young girl gets promoted," said 56% of the teachers.
"If he is a good point guard and we need him to win the District Championship, Johnny STAYS and I don't want to hear another word about his successful cold fusion test," said 98% of the teachers.
Japan does have some interesting approaches. For one thing, compulsory school attendance in Japan ends at age 14, not 16-18 as it does in the US. Even so, far more Japanese students are in high school than American students.
You are right about the "specialization" in Japanese high schools. Students compete very hard to get into "the best" high schools, because those high schools have a reputation for increasing your chances to get into the small # of universities considered "desirable."
The problem with Japanese education is that it is *so* test driven, and *so* driven by conformity that it is producing students that don't think creatively, can't function independently, and are "organization men" rather than enterpreneurial.
Let me give you an example. In the US when an engineer or computer guy is laid off, he often will start his own business or consulting firm. In Japan, many of these men go to the libraries every day and conceal from their families as long as they can that they're not working. (I suppose they have generous enough unemployment benefits that they can do this at least for awhile.) They do this because they are *ashamed.* This "shame culture" is driven into them by the schools (where public shaming for nonconformity, and widespread bullying are common.)
Another example: some of the most innovative Japanese companies (like video-game developer Square Soft) try to locate in Hawaii because the Japanese-American workforce there is far more creative (having been schooled by American methods) than the Japanese. The late head of the Sony Corporation threatened several times to relocate Sony to the US because he felt he could not get enough *creative* engineering talent. He found people who would do what he told them to, but not enough people to come up with new ideas, by his standards. He explicitly blamed this on Japanese education methods.
It's food for thought, anyway. Our *good* public schools still produce the lion's share of inventors, enterpreneurs, US Nobel prize winners, etc. We have some public schools that are abysmal and produce nothing but trouble. The problem with education reform is that it punishes the good schools for the sins of the bad ones.
We had to teach this "high school graduate" how to use a ruler (something that should have been learned by 3rd grade).
Now I don't fault this individual. He is just a product of the public school system. We gave this person every chance to learn, but we just didn't have the time to make up for 12 years of education system failure. Even after we spent much time training him, we never could make him understand fractions. In the 3 weeks that he worked for us, we had to redo, at our cost, many mismade products, because right up to the last day, he thought that 5/8 was larger than 3/4.
In fact, after 3 weeks of patient explanations, on the day that we let him go, we gave him one more chance and asked him to tell us which of each of the following pairs was the larger length (inches). Here are the fractions and the answers that this high school graduate gave:
| 5/8 | 3/4 | ans. 5/8 |
| 1/2 | 5/8 | ans. 5/8 |
| 1/2 | 5/16 | ans. 5/16 |
| 5/8 | 7/16 | ans. 7/16 |
It took this high school graduate over 2 minutes to come up with those answers.
It's no wonder that teachers don't want to base grade promotion upon standardized tests. The results of those tests would reveal that in their zeal to teach students about the dangers of CFC's and those evil SUV's, they have totally failed to teach those students basic skills.
On second thought, probably an affirmative action teacher.
Regardless of what the standard is, be it high or low, there will be a % that fails. I strongly suggest that vocational schools be brought back in full force. It appears to me that the government schools education establishment is operating under a premise that every child is college material and is destined for college. We know that is not the case. Vocational schools will provide a quality basic education, along with the skills and knowledge needed to make a decent, if not outstanding living in the choosen trade.
One of my wifes best friends that she grew up with is dumb as a decomposing stump. But he is one of the best carpenters out there. Wins 'carpenter competitions' all over the place. I didnt even know such things existed. And make big money as a carpenter. Obviously he needs great math skills for such a job. But he never went to college, excells at what he does, and makes a great living.
Plumbers make big money, and is a trade that can be learned easily at a vocational school. The list of opportunity is almost endless when this route is taken.
That's why I think it's important we not slavishly follow them here in the US when it comes to "education reform." It's also why I personally oppose national curriculum, national testing, etc. and don't agree with President Bush's education reform bill *at all.*
And do not provide them with welfare.
I think that's a great idea! The challenge is to get people to accept that academics aren't for everyone. Frankly, a first rate plumber is of greater value to society than is a second rate poet. Or, as someone or other said "The society that values second rate philosophers over first rate plumbers will find that neither it's ideas nor it's pipes hold water."
There are special education day classes that children can attend. There are a lot of options. My daughter has severe speech problems. She speaks below a 3 year old level, and she is 5 1/2. However, she knows her ABCs, her numbers, and she is starting to read. She is going to go to a regular kindegarten class, and she will be pulled out for speech. A resource teacher is also going to observe and help her once a week. If she needs more help, then my daughter will be pulled out.
Some kids go to special ed classes all day long. Some kids go to special ed for everything except PE, music, and assemblies. Some kids get mainstreamed and are pulled out just for help with math and/or reading.
It's up to the IEP (Individualized Education Plan) team to decide what is best for the child. The parents are a part of this team.
What do you do about kids like her? She has an equal right to education as any other kid.
Agreed! Though, unfortunately, society tends not to respect those who work with their hands. And so putting a child who can't handle academics on the trade school track might meet some resistance.
How else do you judge if a student can meet the standards of the next level without testing?
Testing is fine. But one needs to look at the consequences. Intelligence follows a normal distribution curve - so with IQ 100 as the mean, we can expect about as many above the curve as below it. If you've got someone in the top 2% (genius level) with an IQ of about 135 (depending on the test), they'll generally understand abstraction well. They may well have an intuitive understanding of concepts in calculus, such as the integral. They may be able to look at an algebra problem and know the answer, without resorting to step by step solutions. Down at the bright level (say, 120), they'll grasp concepts quickly, but need to be taught. At the 100 level, they have to work at it. And below? They may be unable to understand.
The problem is, for every genius, there's someone at the bottom who just doesn't get it. Granted, that's only a few percent....but one is faced with the problem of what to do. Water down standards? Social promotion? Or, an alternative track such as you suggest.
To date, we've tended to reduce standards so that no child will be left behind, as President Bush once said. But with standards, we must face that some children will be left behind, and their dreams (or their parents' dreams) will not (and cannot) be realized.
None of this is popular, since the common refrain is that if one can imagine something, they can do it. This isn't true, of course - I will never be an Olympic track star, no matter how much I might desire it, or strive for it. And one starts getting into the whole affirmative action mess again, since different groups have different medians. Asians, for example, test really high...
I personally believe that the "mainstreaming" of students who clearly are in need of special education settings has done far more harm than good. It has not been good for theeducation of the special ed student and it has not been good for the education of the 'regular' students.
No. My daughter's private Christian HS requires taking a math exit test each year before they are passed to the next level. Parents get a letter in the summer informing of the decision. If students have a problem, they get extra help. My daughter struggles with math and last year, they put her in an intermediate-level next step. One year, after geometry, they allowed her to go to Algebra II because geometry is not a prequisite to a higher math and b/c it's just not as important (I know others will didsagree). The point is, I found they were very reasonable about the tests and the results give them feedback about how to improve their program. Of course, this is a Christian school.
"I've been teaching school quite successfully for 50 years and I'm not about to let some whippersnapper of a governor who hasn't been alive as long as I've been teaching tell me the WRONG way to teach school, so I QUIT!"
That response not only generated a lot of laughs from the interviewers, but also generated a lot of questions, which my mother was more than willing to answer in detail. She pointed out that she had the option of retiring, that other teachers did not have. But, many other good teachers would soon be finding other jobs and before long, all that would be left would be a small handful of good teachers who just love teaching and a whole bunch of people who were not qualified to teach kindergarten, but would follow the new methods.
Two years later, one of the television stations used that interview as a lead-in to a piece that confirmed everything that she said.
You are so right about the people in charge. But, they have been in charge for so long that the schools are now inundated with incompetent, NEA indoctrinated airheads. The handful of real teachers, whose drive to educate our children has kept them from quitting in disgust, no longer have a voice - at least, not one that can be heard over the din of NEA and TSTA (Texas State Teachers Association) airheads. The whole system is now so rife with NEA inanity that just replacing the people in charge is no longer a viable solution.
The time has come to completely overhaul our education system. But, because of the level of NEA contagion rife within our schools, the only way to fix it is to completely do away with all federal funding of and control over public education and return 100% control of education to the states.
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