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White House to honor prominent evolutionist
Orange County Register ^ | May 9, 02 | Gary Robbins

Posted on 05/09/2002 3:18:41 PM PDT by laureldrive

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To: Junior
But you would have thought God

The arrogance of evolutionists thinking they know better than God! You folk cannot even give proof of your stupid theory and yet presume to know more than God.

101 posted on 05/10/2002 5:35:00 AM PDT by gore3000
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To: Junior
Jr.,

You fail to grasp the situation. The libertarians here reject tradtional morality. They embrace evolution because they like the doctrine of social darwinism. Libertarians are not conservatives. In fact, I find them to be potentially more corruptive than liberals.

And to correct a mistatement of yours. Christian and Jewish theology does not claim that man was made in the physical image of God.

Maybe you should seek to understand the Judeo-Christian tradition before you attack it.

102 posted on 05/10/2002 5:43:42 AM PDT by Robert-J
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To: Junior
You can be a conservative and accept the facts of evolution

There are no facts of evolution, there is only a philosophy in search of evidence - for 150 years. As to conservatives being able to be evolutionists, don't think so. We are against the 'evolutionism' of the Constitution and of morals. We are also against materialism and believe there are more important things than 'bread alone'. So no, only the deluded can think themselves both conservatives and evolutionists. Only the deluded can think themselves both religious and evolutionists.

103 posted on 05/10/2002 5:43:58 AM PDT by gore3000
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To: Robert-J
Maybe you should seek to understand the Judeo-Christian tradition before you attack it.

Which tradition is that? The Roman Catholic tradition (of which I am a member) which accepts evolution as the means that man came into the world and that man is in God's spiritual image, or the fundamentalist Christian tradition that says evolution is evil and man was created in God's physical image? As many denominations as there are, there is no one "Judeo-Christian Tradition."

104 posted on 05/10/2002 6:14:29 AM PDT by Junior
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To: PatrickHenry
Placemarker.
105 posted on 05/10/2002 6:40:09 AM PDT by PatrickHenry
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To: Robert-J
He's conservative in most of his views despite his antipathy towards religion. That he's honest speaks in his favor. Whenever I saw Clinton with his Bible, I wanted to throw up.
106 posted on 05/10/2002 6:42:47 AM PDT by Tribune7
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To: jlogajan
why hasn't evolution allowed mother's birth canals to develop large enough for the increased brain size?

Evolution doesn't strive for something or have some goal in mind (unlike the claims of the ID supporters). Evolution is a description of what happens. The simple observation that traits are inherited, new traits occur, and these traits influence the survival rates of their carriers is the core of evolutionary theory.

In answer to your question, if we lived lives that 'punished' small birth canals more severely (in other words, we eschewed our technology and modern conveniences to help mother/child survival), we'd see an increase in the size of birth canals. Eventually. Under ID, the increase in brain size and the increase in birth canal size would've happened at the same time which is contrary to observation.

107 posted on 05/10/2002 6:56:52 AM PDT by WileyC
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To: week 71
I did learn to question the liberal establishment, such as the media and academia, and public(government) schools; all which promote the THEORY of evolution.

And like all theories, it is subject to review, unlike 98% of creationism out there. The theory has been proven a very good explainer of phenomena and is open to debate and revision. Creationism is a hand-waving that is immune to scientific inquiry. Creationism is not a theory, it is a belief and therefore has no place in public education.

ID is an interesting attempt to juxtapose the two. And, as a theory (whatever its ultimate merits), it has been exposed to critical inquiry. Interestingly, with each new challenge and modification of theory, it becomes closer and closer to the generally accepted theory of evolution. At this point, some hard-liners have abandoned the scientific process, which throws them in with the 'creationist-belief' crowd again, while others struggle gamely on and re-modify the ID theory to fit new facts and discoveries.

108 posted on 05/10/2002 7:06:15 AM PDT by WileyC
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To: WileyC
And like all theories, it is subject to review, unlike 98% of creationism out there. The theory has been proven a very good explainer of phenomena and is open to debate and revision.

Indeed the theory of evolution does save the phenomena. And without question many creationists have abandoned science or used very, very sloppy science to defend their belief. I must say I have also seen quite a lot of evolutionist use sloppy science and hoaxes to promulgate their belief (although the percentage is better than creationist)

I don't mind evolution being taught in school, I just wish it would be taught as a theory. The theory will have "evolved" shall we say, so much one hundred years from now as to be unrecognizable, because of new discoveries and techniques. People who defend evolution passionately today will be similiar to those scientists who defended phlogoston as the source of fire, in the future. cheers

109 posted on 05/10/2002 7:23:50 AM PDT by week 71
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To: Junior
The Roman Catholic tradition (of which I am a member)

Too bad. According to the fundies, Catholics go straight to hell! And I am not joking. (I was a raised a Catholic, but am now an atheist -- so I'll still meet all my old Catholic friends in hell. heh heh.)

110 posted on 05/10/2002 7:47:23 AM PDT by jlogajan
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To: Bonaparte
Funny you should cite mathematicians in your example. They, above all others, have exposed the unscientific basis of macroevolution.

I hope you don't believe that. Mathematics requires physics to keep it in the realm of reality. Whatever your physical world parameters, you can derive mathematical relationships. If your physics parameters are wrong, your math will lead to wrong conclusion.

Nothing in math can prove or disprove macroevolution.

111 posted on 05/10/2002 7:50:40 AM PDT by jlogajan
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To: Robert-J
Libertarians are not conservatives. In fact, I find them to be potentially more corruptive than liberals.

Indeed, you authoritarians and socialists should FEAR Libertarian ideas. They are like an acid eating away at your claims of authority over your fellow man.

112 posted on 05/10/2002 8:05:11 AM PDT by jlogajan
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To: gore3000
The question I responded to was "why doesn't evolution make the birth canal wider so babies would be born easier. My response was that if the birth canal were widened, there would probably be a compromise in the gait, or a difficulty in walking.
It has nothing to do with spirituality, philosophy,or emotionality. It is strictly a common sense question involving biology. I am not interested in any other kind of discussion here.
113 posted on 05/10/2002 8:18:28 AM PDT by stanz
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To: jlogajan
Nothing in math can prove or disprove macroevolution.

It can and has. When the odds against something are so steep that the history of the universe isn't long enough for it to happen, you rule it out. When an ideological doctrine (evolution) requires billions of such zero-likelihood events to have happened, rational people go back to the drawing board and try to come up with a new ideological doctrine.

114 posted on 05/10/2002 8:24:08 AM PDT by medved
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To: laureldrive
Ouch!
115 posted on 05/10/2002 8:27:13 AM PDT by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: general_re
Thanks for your input.
Any attempt over evolutionary time to add girth to the pelvic area would definitely compromise the ability to maintain bipedality and a steady gait.
Although the fontanelles do permit a shrinkage of the infant's skull during the birth process, they can only acccount for a variable amount. Since infants have been on the average increasing in size at birth due to such factors as better prenatal care,overall increase in the health of the mother, and an increase in overall body size from generation to generation, larger infants with increased cranial size has been the result.
I think that of the 8 lbs and 4 oz my daughter weighed at birth, it felt like the bulk of that weight was in her head.
116 posted on 05/10/2002 8:31:55 AM PDT by stanz
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To: medved
Nothing in math can prove or disprove macroevolution.

It can and has. When the odds against something are so steep

Nonsense. A complete lack of understanding.

When you compute the odds of a simple coin flip, you have to take is tri-modal minimum energy states into account -- its three dimensional plate shape in a gravity well.

Without an understanding of physics, you can't even describe the simplest probability behavior of the coin flip.

A Creationist who waves around "probability" without an accurate model of the underlying phenomena -- is just converting oxygen to carbon dioxide when he speaks -- his words have no particular meaning in reality.

"Probabibilities" devoid of an excruciatingly accurate model are worthless exercises. You haven't the first clue how to construct those models, so your math is futile.

117 posted on 05/10/2002 8:32:05 AM PDT by jlogajan
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To: laureldrive
"Millions of babies continue to die as a result of the mother's birth canal not being big enough for the head. What engineer would do such a lousy job? I would not want to do anything with a God who would design things so badly," Ayala says. ""

It was Adam and Eve's fault that the whole difficulty in child birth thing came about, duh!

118 posted on 05/10/2002 8:33:54 AM PDT by biblewonk
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To: medved
Once more you are determining probabilities without a complete data set. Garbage in, garbage out.
119 posted on 05/10/2002 8:45:06 AM PDT by Junior
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To: jlogajan
Nonsense. A complete lack of understanding.

The best mathematicians in the world appear to agree with me on this one.

120 posted on 05/10/2002 8:53:51 AM PDT by medved
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