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'Lifters' may change the world the way Segway didn't
Wired News ^ | 5.11.02 | Michelle Delio

Posted on 05/13/2002 8:09:32 AM PDT by mhking

Edited on 06/29/2004 7:09:10 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

Antigravitational devices developed by a computer geek could eventually change the world as we know it.

Or they may just blow a few holes into some barn roofs.

The devices are known as "lifters." When charged with a small amount of electrical power, they levitate, apparently able to resist Earth's gravitational forces.


(Excerpt) Read more at wired.com ...


TOPICS: Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: electrogravitics; podkletnov; stringtheory; techindex
I know it's kind of geekish, but if it ever works, it'll be pretty cool.
1 posted on 05/13/2002 8:09:32 AM PDT by mhking
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To: mhking
Damn! Now, what did I do with my perpetual motion machine?
2 posted on 05/13/2002 8:17:48 AM PDT by Post Toasties
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Comment #3 Removed by Moderator

To: mhking
Anyone want to comment on the Townsand-Biefield effect?
4 posted on 05/13/2002 8:19:27 AM PDT by OHelix
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To: mhking
I'm still waiting for the Jetsons-style flying back-pack.
5 posted on 05/13/2002 8:19:34 AM PDT by F16Fighter
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To: mhking
It has been known for hundreds of years that like-charges have repulsive forces. The video of the "lifter" is just an conductive surface connected to the "table" conductive suface through wires. Apply a charge to the unit and they will seperate by mutual repulsion. Nothing new here. Sorry.
6 posted on 05/13/2002 8:27:16 AM PDT by jlogajan
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To: mhking
I've seen these videos before. I'd like to see one of them "fly" about 30 feet above and away from the "base" they are connected to. That would make this more interesting.
7 posted on 05/13/2002 8:30:09 AM PDT by isthisnickcool
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To: mhking
This is hard to accept at face value. These things levitate over any surface? Or just specially prepared ones, perhaps ferromagnetic ones that carry a few million Gauss of field?

Some years ago, Analog reported on a maverick who'd developed a device that appeared to violate Newton's Third Law. It would thrust against any surface you put it in contact with, yet remain motionless even though it was unbound, mounted on rollers, and sat on a smooth surface. That's the sort of thing that could rewrite all of physics, if you think about it. But the "inventor" would give no details of theory or construction, and after that one report in Analog, it was never heard of again.

Tinfoil suiters immediately conclude "conspiracy." Physicists -- I'm one, by education -- immedately conclude "hoax."

Freedom, Wealth, and Peace,
Francis W. Porretto
Visit The Palace Of Reason: http://palaceofreason.com

8 posted on 05/13/2002 8:31:16 AM PDT by fporretto
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To: fporretto
The "Dean Drive"?

Attributed to the slip-stick phenomena of standard friction. G. Harry Stein developed a physical theory for it with a guy by the name of Davis, became "Davis Mechanics." It involved rates of change of acceleration.

Interesting but almost certainly nothing to it.

9 posted on 05/13/2002 8:34:51 AM PDT by jlogajan
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To: fporretto
These things levitate over any surface?

At high voltages most normal surfaces are sufficiently conductive -- ground, cement, even many woods.

You need to get to low-metal containing glass and plastics to get away from conduction. And then there can't be a surface under the surface, so to speak. A plastic sheet over a patch of conductive earth or metal would not stop the electrostatic force from penetrating.

So there is a lot of room for fraud here.

10 posted on 05/13/2002 8:37:37 AM PDT by jlogajan
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To: mhking
A flying fig leaf bump.
11 posted on 05/13/2002 8:39:13 AM PDT by Junior
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To: fporretto
Mind you, there is nothing wrong with investigating electrostatic repulsion. For instance, "ionic wind" can indeed produce a thrust, and therefore a repelling base surface is not needed. However, the seeding of the surround atmosphere with ionic charges is somewhat energy expensive because you can't recover the energy lost to ionization. But if energy is sufficiently cheap, ionic atmospheric repulsion may yet prove effective for lifting.

But it isn't new physics.

12 posted on 05/13/2002 8:41:27 AM PDT by jlogajan
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To: mhking
>>Scientists at NASA's Breakthrough Propulsion Physics project are researching theories that at first glance would seem to be hanging even further off the bleeding edge of rationality than the lifter. Current projects include possible methods of manipulating space-time -- that's time travel in lay terms.

If time travel had been developed, wouldn't travelers from the future already have traveled back to our time to give us the technology that will be developed...uh...will have to have been developed in the past-future...uh...will have been brought forward by the...uh...ow! My head hurts...

13 posted on 05/13/2002 8:43:32 AM PDT by pabianice
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To: jlogajan
Was this the same guy who discovered that if you put a kids broken front tooth under the pillow, the Tooth Fairy came and took it away and left a silver dollar instead?
14 posted on 05/13/2002 8:44:42 AM PDT by unending thunder
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To: dax zenos
Anti-positively!
15 posted on 05/13/2002 8:46:33 AM PDT by nimc
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To: mhking
Note that this article isn't from Wired magazine, but from Wired News, which has had no direct relation to the magazine for some years now, and has been known to be just a touch sensationalistic at times, though generally reliable.

And whatever these things are doing, they aren't "resisting Earth's gravitational forces" any more than airplanes and birds do. Anti-gravity devices are impossible under the laws of physics, specifically the First Law of Thermodynamics.

16 posted on 05/13/2002 8:47:34 AM PDT by Timesink
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To: pabianice
The others, who have already left us, are still perfecting technologies that they will use to appear to humans in our time. Several test runs have been foiled. They will come to reveal all truth and share knowledge which will represent a quantum leap forward.</conspiracy theory>
17 posted on 05/13/2002 8:50:02 AM PDT by jayef
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To: Timesink
Anti-gravity devices are impossible under the laws of physics, specifically the First Law of Thermodynamics.

I would have to disagree with that. Attractive and repulsive forces are known in nature, obviously. But you just don't have a repulsive force appear out of nowhere and do work for you. You are required to insert energy or tap into a natural store of potential energy in order to make use of repulsive forces to do work, lifting, etc.

18 posted on 05/13/2002 8:51:21 AM PDT by jlogajan
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To: Timesink
Is it possible that there are "holes" in that theory? Or more specifically, can the "holes" be created?
19 posted on 05/13/2002 8:51:59 AM PDT by jayef
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To: mhking
"All major scientific breakthroughs were scoffed at when they first debuted,"

All completely useless technologies were also laughed at when they first debuted.

20 posted on 05/13/2002 8:55:22 AM PDT by dead
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To: jlogajan
I would have to disagree with that. Attractive and repulsive forces are known in nature, obviously. But you just don't have a repulsive force appear out of nowhere and do work for you. You are required to insert energy or tap into a natural store of potential energy in order to make use of repulsive forces to do work, lifting, etc.

Exactly. Which means it's not an "anti-gravity device" as most people think of them. Like I said, no different from planes or birds.

21 posted on 05/13/2002 8:58:16 AM PDT by Timesink
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To: jayef
Is it possible that there are "holes" in that theory? Or more specifically, can the "holes" be created?

Hey, anything's theoretically possible, but nobody's ever won that bet in human history. I would recommend the book "Voodoo Science" by Robert Park, specifically his discussion of Podkletnov's "Gravity Shield" and how NASA (yes, NASA) blew over a million dollars on it in 1999 before "discovering" it didn't work, even though all the physicists in the world had already been ignoring the man's "discoveries." In other words, NASA doesn't have a good record in this department.

By the way, if you create an anti-gravity device, you can use it to create a perpetual motion machine. That should tell you something right there.

22 posted on 05/13/2002 9:04:18 AM PDT by Timesink
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To: mhking
I've just invented a revolutionary device for looking through walls!

I'm thinking of calling it (get ready) a window.

23 posted on 05/13/2002 9:10:28 AM PDT by Post Toasties
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To: mhking
Check out the work of Townsand Brown with Einstein's freind and colleage Dr. Biefeld on anti-gravitation.
24 posted on 05/13/2002 9:21:00 AM PDT by OHelix
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To: Timesink
By the way, if you create an anti-gravity device, you can use it to create a perpetual motion machine. That should tell you something right there.

While I don’t think anything special is going on here, this is not a correct statement.

If you could use a power source to counteract the effects of gravity, that still wouldn’t get you any closer to a perpetual motion machine, which would have to work without a power source to qualify.

25 posted on 05/13/2002 9:24:21 AM PDT by dead
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To: mhking
I predict this will disappear, just like the 4 Million MPG carburetor and the battery that never needs charging and the flask that never runs out of wine and and.....
26 posted on 05/13/2002 9:28:00 AM PDT by gilor
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To: mhking
There is a guy in Texas that has a flying saucer that hovers over his work bench. He built that for fun. One of the many other things he built uses special magnets and creates energy from them. With no other power source. I know people that have seen it. Smart people. It scared the poop out of them.
27 posted on 05/13/2002 10:14:50 AM PDT by isthisnickcool
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To: pabianice
"If time travel had been developed, wouldn't travelers from the future already have traveled back to our time to give us the technology that will be developed...uh...will have to have been developed in the past-future...uh...will have been brought forward by the...uh...ow! My head hurts..."

Time travel exists! Well, I think it must. No matter how I try to move into the future I am always here, Now. But when I look at what I have done it was done in the past so I must have moved from the past into the future without noticing it. When I go to sleep at night I wake up several hours later without realy knowing time passed. I must have moved through time from then to when I woke up.
Time travel is possible, but so far no one has been able to reverse direction, nor escape the ever presant and clingingly painfull now, or now, or now...

Travel into the future is all too posible, it's comming back that is highly improbable.

28 posted on 05/13/2002 12:51:52 PM PDT by Outlaw76
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To: isthisnickcool
How smart could they be if they weren't trying to figure how to make a buck out of it?

That is, unless it was a hoax...

29 posted on 05/13/2002 3:30:02 PM PDT by Post Toasties
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To: gilor
I've figured out how to drive my car without even starting the engine. The only problem is that I haven't worked out how to get it back uphill.
30 posted on 05/13/2002 3:33:29 PM PDT by Post Toasties
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To: mhking
Sorry, this is nothing new. It was first demonstrated by Alexander de Seversky, the famous aircraft designer back in the late 60's - early 70's.

There was an article about it in, I believe, the old Mechanix Illustrated.

It works on the same principle as those ionic fans you see advertised.

I remember that de Seversky was using 30,000 volts at 30 mils (90 watts) as a power source.

He had a metal wire and balsa frame about 18 inches square that looked like a small bed springs. Arranged on top of the frame were a number of these little arrowhead looking wires. The arrowheads were negatively charged and the frame was positively charged. As the charges moved from negative to positive, they dragged air molecules along with them.

It is mentioned in the following text found at the following link:

Prophet

Besides his role as a military prophet, de Seversky continued his activity as a technological inventor and innovator. In line with the emphasis on pollution, he invented a wet-type electrostatic precipitator for attaching air pollution. This added to the list of new developments he previously pioneered, which included the cantilever-skin stressed aircraft wing structure, flight refueling, trailing-edge wing-flaps, and the "Ionocraft", a heavier-than-air levitation device depending on ionic emission, which was built and demonstrated.

31 posted on 05/13/2002 10:18:07 PM PDT by chaosagent
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To: pabianice
If time travel had been developed, wouldn't travelers from the future already have traveled back to our time to give us the technology that will be developed.

We cannot pass that information on to you, we can only observe your "old fashioned" ways. Been that way ever since the big Muslim extermination back in 2003. OOpps, let that slip, did'nt I?

32 posted on 05/13/2002 11:13:12 PM PDT by Uni-Poster
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To: mhking;tech_index; Mathlete; Apple Pan Dowdy; grundle; beckett; billorites; ErnBatavia...
To find all articles tagged or indexed using tech_index

Click here: tech_index

33 posted on 05/14/2002 12:12:48 AM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
Thanks for the ping, I would never have found this over on General interest, May have to spend a little more time looking around.
34 posted on 05/14/2002 8:07:00 AM PDT by Free the USA
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
Thanks for the ping, to bad the tech index doesn't show articles indexed in the General Interest Forum.
35 posted on 05/14/2002 12:55:57 PM PDT by Fish out of Water
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To: Post Toasties
You just need to move to an area that is downhill both ways.
36 posted on 09/25/2002 6:24:09 AM PDT by RipSawyer
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To: AdmSmith; bvw; callisto; ckilmer; dandelion; ganeshpuri89; gobucks; KevinDavis; Las Vegas Dave; ...

Note: this topic is from 5/13/2002. Thanks mhking for the topic, thanks JimRob for the edit, and thanks Pearls Before Swine for having the link in your Links page. :')


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37 posted on 11/21/2010 5:11:28 PM PST by SunkenCiv (The 2nd Amendment follows right behind the 1st because some people are hard of hearing.)
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Eugene Podkletnov keyword:
38 posted on 11/21/2010 5:29:57 PM PST by SunkenCiv (The 2nd Amendment follows right behind the 1st because some people are hard of hearing.)
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