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Officials Reveal Bin Laden Plan: Terror leader hoped to create Islamic empire
LA Times ^ | March 18, 2002 | CRAIG PYES, JOSH MEYER and WILLIAM C. REMPEL

Posted on 05/18/2002 5:41:09 AM PDT by TomGuy

Edited on 09/03/2002 4:50:30 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

KABUL, Afghanistan -- The assassination of an Afghan rebel leader 48 hours before the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks was part of a strategic plan by Osama bin Laden to expand his influence into Central Asia, according to American and Afghan government sources.


(Excerpt) Read more at latimes.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: binladenplan; islamicempire; osamabinladen
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"The group around Osama ... thought up different scenarios. They imagined a Bill Clinton-type response," said a Kabul intelligence official, referring to a 1998 cruise missile strike in Afghanistan that President Clinton ordered after the bombings of two U.S. Embassies in East Africa.

"They could never imagine the response that took place" after Sept. 11, the official said.


Apparently, they missed one senario--awakening the sleeping giant.
1 posted on 05/18/2002 5:41:09 AM PDT by TomGuy
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To: TomGuy
"Apparently, they missed one senario--awakening the sleeping giant."

Also....they were familiar with attacking the interests and the citizens of the US while the Democrats were in the WhiteHouse. (feeling their pain!)

2 posted on 05/18/2002 5:51:32 AM PDT by blam
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To: TomGuy
Gee, you mean they thought George W. Bush would respond like Clinton? Talk about underestimating your enemy!
3 posted on 05/18/2002 5:57:07 AM PDT by Catspaw
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To: blam
Looks like they fell for the Dem's propoganda that Gore won the election.
4 posted on 05/18/2002 6:14:11 AM PDT by gitmo
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To: gitmo
Was Bin Laden taking the same stuff as Charles Manson? What is it with these guy that think they can kill a handful of people and then take over the world? Do they have a natural chemical imbalance or is it chemically induced?

In the dark ages this tactic may have worked but in today's day and age it's a sure miss. If our people fight with the ferocity of a zealot when attacking big tobacco, fatty foods, cell phones and other nonsensical items. Bin Laden just focused that energy toward completing a central goal, killing him. Not a very good plan.

5 posted on 05/18/2002 6:25:30 AM PDT by Dutch Boy
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To: Catspaw
Osama had noted the election mess, according to reports out soon after 9/11. The impression I got from his spiel was that he seemed to think he could cause the US to sink into a civil war or undergo some sort of coup if he could inflict some casualties. I don't think he was alone in this belief. Clinton's reaction to the deaths of 18 servicement in Somalia seemed to confirm that America would cut and run if punched in the nose. I think Usama mentioned it in one of his earliest videos if not the first. He and his ilk bought into the Democrat agitprop about the 'illegitimate' presidency, and believed the administration would be weakened by the divided government, particularly with the divided Senate and party switching. They thought the government would be so divided that an attack on the US at such a time would be the straw which would break the camel's back... how could they think Bush could possibly be stronger than the popular Bill Clinton, who in Al-Qeada's experience and in the experience of other groups like Arafat's had always responded weakly if at all?

Castro evidently fell for it too, as he made his infamous 'America is weak, together Iran and Cuba can bring America to its knees' kind of line back in March 2001. He too would have a belief that America was ripe for a fall since Castro was practically a member of the Clinton administration. He knew how stupid (or bought) they were on foreign policy from personal experience.

Since in so many countries the NYTimes is considered the premier choice for news about America and for studying America, it is little wonder that these two-bit tyrants have such a shallow grasp of what this country is about. The howls and screams and incendiary remarks made down here in South Florida and from every major US press outlet during and after the Gore War war sure didn't make this country look powerful or impervious to attack. It was an invitation to attack broadcast worldwide.

We all knew that by the end of the Clinton administration military morale was at an all time low, and readiness was way down. You can bet our enemies noticed this too, and noticed the drop in training. I was suprised that we, or Taiwan didn't get attacked by someone immediately after the election, or before inaugeration day, when we would be in the worst possible shape, and I think I wasn't alone in voicing this concern on FR. When it didn't happen right then I was much relieved, but knew we wouldn't be out of the woods until some serious reform took place, and that takes time when things have been left undone for so long.

They were right in that we were not as strong or unified as we have been in the past, wrong in their timing and target selection. If they had more carefully picked their targets and style of attack they could have touched off some serious internal chaos, but then they would have had to understand the country to grasp what to do, and they would have had to be much more subtle and patient. The left wing knows how to destroy America. They have done it socially and through legal conniving for many years, steadily eroding the most essential foundation stones of this country.

6 posted on 05/18/2002 6:26:31 AM PDT by piasa
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To: TomGuy
"They imagined a Bill Clinton-type response"

"They could never imagine the response that took place after Sept. 11."

They could not imagine George W. Bush!

The American spirit--the American genius--is alive and well in the American Heartland--Bush Country--and the United States is sill in its ascendancy!"

AMERICAS ENEMIES BE FOREWARNED!

7 posted on 05/18/2002 6:33:51 AM PDT by Savage Beast
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To: TomGuy
Shortly after 9/11 I saw a map of the future islamic empire, with Mecca the capital. I've been trying to find that map ever since.

Anyone have a link?

8 posted on 05/18/2002 6:52:37 AM PDT by opbuzz
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To: TomGuy
So bin Laden planned to conquer the U.S.A., Russia, and China all at once. His secret weapon? The bloodthirsty, Satanic little "god" he worships, as though this "idol" were capable of smashing anything.

What a fool. If Osama wants to worship the devil, it's his choice to make. But he's a fool if he thinks his "phoney-god" is any match for God.

One can't help wondering if Osama is still in denial about this.

These people are Satan-worshippers. Their murderous, blood-thirsty "god" is the devil. And that is an illusion--a symbol of the evil that rots their hearts.

Who is the Freeper who said

"Evil is the ultimate stupidity."?

Bil Laden and his henchmen are profoundly stupid, and the phoney "god" they serve is the ultimate stupidity.

9 posted on 05/18/2002 6:55:37 AM PDT by Savage Beast
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To: piasa
It is a common third-world belief that the U.S is big and dumb and soft and spoiled. The U.S. left has done everything it can ever since Viet Nam to reinforce that belief. The third world has always known that the U.S. CAN blow them away, they just don't believe we WILL.

In many parts of the world, if you behave like "Mr. Nice Guy" all the time and give all kinds of stuff away for free, they take you for "Mr. Stupid Guy" and figure they can take advantage of you all they want because you are too dumb and weak to know the difference.

That's the position the left (perfect examples: Carter and Clinton) has gotten us into in the third world, and it's not so easy for Bush to get us out very fast. He's trying all the time to move the U.S. back to a position of strength and sanity, and the left just keeps on attempting to trip him up in every way they can. They will do anything to tear this country to pieces which is something I don't understand, but it's true. Sometimes I think it's just pure mindless, leftist nihilism, the urge to demolish anything good.

10 posted on 05/18/2002 6:58:15 AM PDT by Irene Adler
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To: piasa
Very nice analysis.
11 posted on 05/18/2002 6:59:31 AM PDT by Irene Adler
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To: piasa
One thing that bin Laden underestimated was that, although there are internal squabbles, when we were attacked--and, according to one of his videos, this attack "succeeded" at a far greater scale than he expected--the country came together under its president, and that president was far more stronger than the previous adminstration, knew what to do and did it. Had his 9/11 attack had been on the scale of the first WTC bombing, I don't know how we would've responded, but after the WTC I, bombings of our embassies in Tanzania and Kenya, and the bombing of the Cole, I don't think bin Laden would've been quite so confident that a smaller scale bombing on our soil would have resulted in a Clinton-like surgical strike, but would have resulted in a full-scale war. He probably thought that his pals in the Pakistani ISI would've warned him in advance of any missle strikes on his training camps (which he quickly could've abandoned before the missles landed). He didn't expect sustained bombings and an invasion.

But what bin Laden wanted--and al Qaeda still wants--is a pan-Islamic state-just listen to Zacarias Moussaoui's ramblings in court. That's why the threat from al Qaeda will continue until they're wiped out.

12 posted on 05/18/2002 7:19:54 AM PDT by Catspaw
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To: TomGuy
An excellent article which ties many loose ends together.

The question is what does OBL think now? My guess is that expansion to the north is on hold. Islamic revolution in Pakistan holds more promise. Attacks on foreigners (Pearl, French), fundamentalistic terror attacks on India to tie up Paki troops in the east and forment a war with the infidels in India, plus the fact that OBL draws considerable domestic support from religious extremists, ISI and the fact that the U.S. is generally respecting Pakistan's borders makes the international isolation of Pakistan and its overthrow from within his most promising strategy.

Also its got nukes.

Watch for an assassination attempt on the President of Pakistan as the next move.

13 posted on 05/18/2002 7:36:18 AM PDT by Ranger
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To: TomGuy
Government officials now say Masoud's assassination was part of a more ambitious design: to establish a caliphate, or religious state, encompassing Afghanistan and parts of Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, Chechnya and the predominantly Muslim Xinjiang region of northwestern China.

I used to think the only thing you couldn't call Bin Laden was stupid. But now I'll have to rethink that. Is it really an intelligent move to attack the west, when one wants control of Centarl Asian regions?

I don't think so.

14 posted on 05/18/2002 7:42:37 AM PDT by liberalism=failure
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To: piasa
The left wing knows how to destroy America. They have done it socially and through legal conniving for many years, steadily eroding the most essential foundation stones of this country.

Even the left wing has made a serious mistake. They made their move too soon and they've been exposed. They mistook our easy attitude for weakness when in reality it's one of our strengths. We have such faith in our system that nobody doubted it could withstand these fools. That was wrong, but it's about to be fixed....BIG TIME.

There's a saying about Irish Wolfhounds that I think applies to the American people. "Gentle when stroked, fierce when provoked"

15 posted on 05/18/2002 7:52:18 AM PDT by McGavin999
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To: TomGuy
I knew it! I've long wondered what Bin Laden thought would happen after 9/11 and came to the conclusion that he decided that based upon all the talk about Bush being so much dumber than Clinton, etc. and then with what happened with China shooting down our plane and us apologizing for it, that there would hardly be any reaction on our part at all. I wonder if knowing that Bush won't put up with this is protecting us from future attempts.
16 posted on 05/18/2002 8:05:14 AM PDT by Aria
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To: Catspaw,SPAR, TRAVIS McGEE
While the USA backed the establishment of an islamic state in Bosnia, islamic/taliban fighters were allowed to fight against the Serbs in the civil war which torn apart that country. The Iranians delivered them and the Saudis paid for their weapons!!

It seems that some of those same talibans ARE STILL IN BOSNIA....an Israeli minister told the Croatians that, in the opinion of the Israeli govt., BOSNIA IS NOTHING BUT A TALIBAN CELL IN EUROPE.

You can make that a ditto for Kosovo and the KLA.....islamic terror network formed right in the Balkans.....LOOK OUT EUROPE, those jihadists are right under your noses!!!!!

17 posted on 05/18/2002 8:07:56 AM PDT by crazykatz
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To: Irene Adler
"To mistake gentleness for weakness is to underestimate the severity of a Russian winter."
Leon Uris
Mila 18
There is still the possibility of a Carthagenic Peace.
"Don't Tread on Me."

18 posted on 05/18/2002 8:20:41 AM PDT by Savage Beast
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To: Savage Beast
Since I am an atheist and think all gods are phoney,can you tell me how many Christians there are in the world who believe in your "real god"?
19 posted on 05/18/2002 8:22:42 AM PDT by Betty Jo
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To: Betty Jo
Yes, "god" is a term defined in many different ways. How would you define it?
20 posted on 05/18/2002 9:53:18 AM PDT by D-fendr
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To: Dutch Boy
Bin Laden just focused that energy toward completing a central goal, killing him. Not a very good plan.

I'll even go further............

His plan will backfire..BIGTIME.....and at the minimum, bring about a reformation of Islam as freedom quickly spreads across the realm of the middle eastern tinhorn dictatorships.

21 posted on 05/18/2002 10:58:43 AM PDT by CROSSHIGHWAYMAN
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To: opbuzz
Shortly after 9/11 I saw a map of the future islamic empire, with Mecca the capital. I've been trying to find that map ever since.

Anyone have a link?

I recall the map you mention. It was one of two, Islamic distribution today, and 100 years from now. Moslem nations were colored green. I saw them in conjunction with a World Islamic conference last year or the year before, in either Iran, Jordan, or Lebanon (I think).

I've been running Google searches, but have come up empty so far.




22 posted on 05/18/2002 11:37:39 AM PDT by Sabertooth
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To: Ranger
The question is what does OBL think now?

Not too much, as he's probably been dead for a few months.

23 posted on 05/18/2002 11:43:47 AM PDT by NYC GOP Chick
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To: opbuzz
These aren't the map you're looking for, but interesting nonetheless...




24 posted on 05/18/2002 12:02:13 PM PDT by Sabertooth
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To: Victoria Delsoul; harpseal; Travis McGee; mae west; poor muttly; Snow Bunny; onyx; glock rocks...
Shortly after 9/11 I saw a map of the future islamic empire, with Mecca the capital. I've been trying to find that map ever since.

Anyone else remember this map? It was from some world Islamic conference, and showed global conquest by Islam 100 years from now.




25 posted on 05/18/2002 12:12:39 PM PDT by Sabertooth
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To: Sabertooth
I haven't seen it, Saber! If it shows up here, though, I'd like to see it!
26 posted on 05/18/2002 12:31:47 PM PDT by MeekOneGOP
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To: piasa
.....if they had more carefully picked their targets.......

If a caliphate in central Asia was the goal, why attack the USA? This is essentially division of forces from the gitgo. To win, concentration of force is prudent. Attacking from the beginning on two fronts is foolish.

If a central asian state was the desired result, attacking the USA seems to have been done from vanity. I see no military or for that matter political reason.

27 posted on 05/18/2002 12:35:48 PM PDT by bert
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To: Sabertooth
I remember it. Pretty much the entire world was all green and all Islamic. I scoffed when I saw it.
28 posted on 05/18/2002 12:39:03 PM PDT by rintense
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To: Sabertooth
As a matter of fact, I think it was a map from a radical islam website originating here in the states. Wasn't it a link from some college group?
29 posted on 05/18/2002 12:42:18 PM PDT by rintense
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To: MeeknMing;Sabertooth;D-fendr;McGavin999;Irene Adler;blam;TomGuy
Every one should read this:

The Bush Log (GREAT read)

Short snip follows as a teaser:

-----------------------snip----------

THE WHITE HOUSE (George W. Bush, Personal Log, May 17, 2001)—Well, they're at it again. The conservatives and libertarians, in and out of the media. Bitchin' at me for spendin' too much money. Cavin' in, they call it. Cow-towin' to the liberal porkers, they say. Abandonin' my free-market principles, they claim. Didn't like me signin' the farm bill. No, sir. Or the campaign finance reform bill. Or for askin' for steel tariffs, more prescription drug benefits, or bigger bucks for education. They've been getting' pretty huffy about these compromises of mine. But am I worried? Not really. Not about that. You see, I got plenty on my plate and I don't believe in frettin' and fussin' in the wrong directions. You wanna understand me? Then understand that.

The critics forget. What they forget could fill Texas stadium. For one thing, they forget that the American people like me. Like what I'm doin'. 'Specially like my priorities. What's my biggest priority? The war. Operation Enduring Freedom. I called it that for a reason. But it already seems to be fadin' in the critics minds, even though I laid it out to 'em plain and true on national TV several times. I guess some people just can't fill a boot no matter how many times you give 'em a pair to try on.

They also seem to forget that if we don't win this war, we're gonna suffer some slams that'll make the 9/11 Massacre look like a black eye at recess. I don't forget that. I can't afford to. Don't have the luxury. I don't forget those l'il porkers across the aisle in Congress, either. Not to mention the porkers in my own party. There's plenty of 'em. And I don't forget that you gotta give in order to get. Maybe it ain't nice, but that's politics in America today. Might be different some day. Don't know. But that's how it is now and I gotta live with it.

------------------------------------------

It is a most excellent read!!!

30 posted on 05/18/2002 12:50:15 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach
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To: TomGuy
"Islam is a religon of peace" BUMP.
31 posted on 05/18/2002 12:52:49 PM PDT by weegee
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
Thanks Ernest, I read it yesterday. It sounds so much like our president it's uncanny.
32 posted on 05/18/2002 12:54:22 PM PDT by McGavin999
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To: Catspaw
If you're the type to go around beating dogs, never try to beat a big dog without checking to see if the other end of its leash is tied.

Bin Laden forgot to check that one. Clinton had our military on a huge leash, and he did it on purpose. Clinton wanted, more than anything else, to be a wartime president. He knew what he was doing, he knew it would make us look vulnerable and would likely provoke an attack. He knew as well as we do that this country would survive and would unify even behind him in order to seek out anyone who hit us at home. So when Clinton muttered this past week or so that 'this wasn't like WW2 or anything,' he revealed himself once again for the scoundrel he is. Unlike any sane individual who wouldn't want the job Bush has right now, unlike Bush himself who is probably thinking 'what in the heck came over me to take this job and get old before my time,' Clinton would throw away American lives in a heartbeat to get back in the oval office and be FDR the 2nd. Bubba was throwing away people's lives literally and through slander throughout his presidency. He was willing to do anything it took to set us up. Clinton tried to hamstring the dog and tie him up for good measure, so that he could be the one to set it loose when he decided the time was right, and receive adoration and laurel wreaths... and babes.

The election was when the leash was gnawed through, one vote at a time. So here bin Laden and friends come with a stick, and broke it across our nose... and only then realized that Clinton wasn't holding the leash. In fact, they noticed that what was on the other end of that leash was worse than the dog...

There were millions of Americans with bared teeth. And among them were a fair measure of allies to back them up.

Al Qeada can't run fast enough or dig deep enough now, because Americans want al Qeada, and everyone who is linked with al Qeada... dead. I saw the Taliban leaders' and Arafat's eyes when he got the news. That was an 'oh shiite' moment for sure. I can imagine bin Laden's eyes were just as big; I can imagine the looks on Osama's followers' faces when they realized they had bought into a myth. Clinton had inadvertantly set them up too.

33 posted on 05/18/2002 12:58:14 PM PDT by piasa
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
The critics forget. What they forget could fill Texas stadium.

I remember who hasn't secured our borders since 9/11.

I remember who's actively seeking ways to reward those who don't respect our borders.

I remember who equivocates on the matter, and that what they say could fill a Texas pasture.




34 posted on 05/18/2002 1:03:07 PM PDT by Sabertooth
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To: Sabertooth
Thanks for the maps, they're not the one I'm looking for but I've saved them for reference.
35 posted on 05/18/2002 1:04:58 PM PDT by opbuzz
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To: rintense
As a matter of fact, I think it was a map from a radical islam website originating here in the states. Wasn't it a link from some college group?

I think you're right. I thought I'd bookmarked the site, but now I can't find it.




36 posted on 05/18/2002 1:06:06 PM PDT by Sabertooth
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To: piasa
There were millions of Americans with bared teeth. And among them were a fair measure of allies to back them up.

We are not fully united yet but if Bin Laden hits us again that would surely do the trick!

37 posted on 05/18/2002 1:06:16 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach
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To: Sabertooth
Whoever made the site probably took it offline.
38 posted on 05/18/2002 1:09:41 PM PDT by rintense
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To: rintense
Whoever made the site probably took it offline.

Agreed. I've got a bunch of "site not found" Islamic links -- cleaning up their (public) act, but not their goals, I'd say.

39 posted on 05/18/2002 1:22:35 PM PDT by browardchad
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To: TomGuy
The attack that assassinated Masood should have set off alarm bells. But it didn't.

The American people weren't paying attention to the events in Afghanistan on September 9, 2001.

Afghanistan - Opposition's military chief Ahmed Shah Massood injured in bomb explosion

bin Laden's ambition to establish a Caliphate, which was his motive for the assasination of Masood and the Sept. 11 attacks, was explained long before this Los Angeles Times article. I guess people need to be continually reminded about it.

40 posted on 05/18/2002 1:26:23 PM PDT by HAL9000
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To: TomGuy
They imagined a Bill Clinton-type response

Ever since I saw The Who perform "Won't Get Fooled Again" at the concert for New York, I get a tingle up and down my spine when I hear that song.

41 posted on 05/18/2002 1:32:10 PM PDT by operation clinton cleanup
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To: HAL9000
The attack that assassinated Masood should have set off alarm bells. But it didn't.

It DID set off alarm bells, unfortunately it happened only 3 days prior to 9/11.

42 posted on 05/18/2002 1:34:00 PM PDT by operation clinton cleanup
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To: browardchad
Yep. Gone underground... it's hard to be subversive on the internet.
43 posted on 05/18/2002 1:48:12 PM PDT by rintense
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To: Sabertooth
What is the reason for an islamic empire. Are the muslims so concerned about Christians and our life style that they want to save us from eternal damnation and therefore want us to convert to an islamic empire because they love us so much that they want to save us from the fires of hell?

Or could it be a way to control our riches which is not religious at all.

Why is it that CAIR wants the US government to be an islamic one sooner rather than later.

44 posted on 05/18/2002 1:54:36 PM PDT by oilfieldtrash
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Comment #45 Removed by Moderator

To: Sabertooth
Clearly we need more Hispanic immigrants to keep the Islamic percentage down. You ever meet an Hispanic Muslim?
46 posted on 05/18/2002 3:16:13 PM PDT by Torie
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To: Irene Adler; piasa
Both of you have an excellent analysis. I do think we need to take Bin Laden out.
47 posted on 05/18/2002 3:17:04 PM PDT by Angelique
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To: Betty Jo
"Since I am an atheist and think all gods are phoney, can you tell me how many Christians there are in the world who believe in your "real god"? "

No, obviously not. Some so-called "Christians" serve the same "god" these blood-thirsty killers serve. Many terrible things have been done in the name of God and religion--no question about that.

I believe in God. But if the concepts of "God" and "Satan" are used as symbols of good and evel, you gotta admit that those terrorists are serving "Satan" and not "God", no matter what they may profess. Right?

48 posted on 05/18/2002 3:39:33 PM PDT by Savage Beast
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To: Sabertooth; rintense
There are over l billion practting Islam in the world, 7 million of which are in the US. It is second largest religion to Christianity. That map could not possibly be correct.
49 posted on 05/18/2002 3:43:50 PM PDT by Angelique
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
Thanks,it certainly was.
50 posted on 05/18/2002 3:48:59 PM PDT by Angelique
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