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Officials Reveal Bin Laden Plan: Terror leader hoped to create Islamic empire
LA Times ^ | March 18, 2002 | CRAIG PYES, JOSH MEYER and WILLIAM C. REMPEL

Posted on 05/18/2002 5:41:09 AM PDT by TomGuy

Edited on 09/03/2002 4:50:30 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

KABUL, Afghanistan -- The assassination of an Afghan rebel leader 48 hours before the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks was part of a strategic plan by Osama bin Laden to expand his influence into Central Asia, according to American and Afghan government sources.

(Excerpt) Read more at ...

TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: binladenplan; islamicempire; osamabinladen
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"The group around Osama ... thought up different scenarios. They imagined a Bill Clinton-type response," said a Kabul intelligence official, referring to a 1998 cruise missile strike in Afghanistan that President Clinton ordered after the bombings of two U.S. Embassies in East Africa.

"They could never imagine the response that took place" after Sept. 11, the official said.

Apparently, they missed one senario--awakening the sleeping giant.
1 posted on 05/18/2002 5:41:09 AM PDT by TomGuy
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To: TomGuy
"Apparently, they missed one senario--awakening the sleeping giant."

Also....they were familiar with attacking the interests and the citizens of the US while the Democrats were in the WhiteHouse. (feeling their pain!)

2 posted on 05/18/2002 5:51:32 AM PDT by blam
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To: TomGuy
Gee, you mean they thought George W. Bush would respond like Clinton? Talk about underestimating your enemy!
3 posted on 05/18/2002 5:57:07 AM PDT by Catspaw
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To: blam
Looks like they fell for the Dem's propoganda that Gore won the election.
4 posted on 05/18/2002 6:14:11 AM PDT by gitmo
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To: gitmo
Was Bin Laden taking the same stuff as Charles Manson? What is it with these guy that think they can kill a handful of people and then take over the world? Do they have a natural chemical imbalance or is it chemically induced?

In the dark ages this tactic may have worked but in today's day and age it's a sure miss. If our people fight with the ferocity of a zealot when attacking big tobacco, fatty foods, cell phones and other nonsensical items. Bin Laden just focused that energy toward completing a central goal, killing him. Not a very good plan.

5 posted on 05/18/2002 6:25:30 AM PDT by Dutch Boy
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To: Catspaw
Osama had noted the election mess, according to reports out soon after 9/11. The impression I got from his spiel was that he seemed to think he could cause the US to sink into a civil war or undergo some sort of coup if he could inflict some casualties. I don't think he was alone in this belief. Clinton's reaction to the deaths of 18 servicement in Somalia seemed to confirm that America would cut and run if punched in the nose. I think Usama mentioned it in one of his earliest videos if not the first. He and his ilk bought into the Democrat agitprop about the 'illegitimate' presidency, and believed the administration would be weakened by the divided government, particularly with the divided Senate and party switching. They thought the government would be so divided that an attack on the US at such a time would be the straw which would break the camel's back... how could they think Bush could possibly be stronger than the popular Bill Clinton, who in Al-Qeada's experience and in the experience of other groups like Arafat's had always responded weakly if at all?

Castro evidently fell for it too, as he made his infamous 'America is weak, together Iran and Cuba can bring America to its knees' kind of line back in March 2001. He too would have a belief that America was ripe for a fall since Castro was practically a member of the Clinton administration. He knew how stupid (or bought) they were on foreign policy from personal experience.

Since in so many countries the NYTimes is considered the premier choice for news about America and for studying America, it is little wonder that these two-bit tyrants have such a shallow grasp of what this country is about. The howls and screams and incendiary remarks made down here in South Florida and from every major US press outlet during and after the Gore War war sure didn't make this country look powerful or impervious to attack. It was an invitation to attack broadcast worldwide.

We all knew that by the end of the Clinton administration military morale was at an all time low, and readiness was way down. You can bet our enemies noticed this too, and noticed the drop in training. I was suprised that we, or Taiwan didn't get attacked by someone immediately after the election, or before inaugeration day, when we would be in the worst possible shape, and I think I wasn't alone in voicing this concern on FR. When it didn't happen right then I was much relieved, but knew we wouldn't be out of the woods until some serious reform took place, and that takes time when things have been left undone for so long.

They were right in that we were not as strong or unified as we have been in the past, wrong in their timing and target selection. If they had more carefully picked their targets and style of attack they could have touched off some serious internal chaos, but then they would have had to understand the country to grasp what to do, and they would have had to be much more subtle and patient. The left wing knows how to destroy America. They have done it socially and through legal conniving for many years, steadily eroding the most essential foundation stones of this country.

6 posted on 05/18/2002 6:26:31 AM PDT by piasa
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To: TomGuy
"They imagined a Bill Clinton-type response"

"They could never imagine the response that took place after Sept. 11."

They could not imagine George W. Bush!

The American spirit--the American genius--is alive and well in the American Heartland--Bush Country--and the United States is sill in its ascendancy!"


7 posted on 05/18/2002 6:33:51 AM PDT by Savage Beast
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To: TomGuy
Shortly after 9/11 I saw a map of the future islamic empire, with Mecca the capital. I've been trying to find that map ever since.

Anyone have a link?

8 posted on 05/18/2002 6:52:37 AM PDT by opbuzz
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To: TomGuy
So bin Laden planned to conquer the U.S.A., Russia, and China all at once. His secret weapon? The bloodthirsty, Satanic little "god" he worships, as though this "idol" were capable of smashing anything.

What a fool. If Osama wants to worship the devil, it's his choice to make. But he's a fool if he thinks his "phoney-god" is any match for God.

One can't help wondering if Osama is still in denial about this.

These people are Satan-worshippers. Their murderous, blood-thirsty "god" is the devil. And that is an illusion--a symbol of the evil that rots their hearts.

Who is the Freeper who said

"Evil is the ultimate stupidity."?

Bil Laden and his henchmen are profoundly stupid, and the phoney "god" they serve is the ultimate stupidity.

9 posted on 05/18/2002 6:55:37 AM PDT by Savage Beast
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To: piasa
It is a common third-world belief that the U.S is big and dumb and soft and spoiled. The U.S. left has done everything it can ever since Viet Nam to reinforce that belief. The third world has always known that the U.S. CAN blow them away, they just don't believe we WILL.

In many parts of the world, if you behave like "Mr. Nice Guy" all the time and give all kinds of stuff away for free, they take you for "Mr. Stupid Guy" and figure they can take advantage of you all they want because you are too dumb and weak to know the difference.

That's the position the left (perfect examples: Carter and Clinton) has gotten us into in the third world, and it's not so easy for Bush to get us out very fast. He's trying all the time to move the U.S. back to a position of strength and sanity, and the left just keeps on attempting to trip him up in every way they can. They will do anything to tear this country to pieces which is something I don't understand, but it's true. Sometimes I think it's just pure mindless, leftist nihilism, the urge to demolish anything good.

10 posted on 05/18/2002 6:58:15 AM PDT by Irene Adler
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To: piasa
Very nice analysis.
11 posted on 05/18/2002 6:59:31 AM PDT by Irene Adler
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To: piasa
One thing that bin Laden underestimated was that, although there are internal squabbles, when we were attacked--and, according to one of his videos, this attack "succeeded" at a far greater scale than he expected--the country came together under its president, and that president was far more stronger than the previous adminstration, knew what to do and did it. Had his 9/11 attack had been on the scale of the first WTC bombing, I don't know how we would've responded, but after the WTC I, bombings of our embassies in Tanzania and Kenya, and the bombing of the Cole, I don't think bin Laden would've been quite so confident that a smaller scale bombing on our soil would have resulted in a Clinton-like surgical strike, but would have resulted in a full-scale war. He probably thought that his pals in the Pakistani ISI would've warned him in advance of any missle strikes on his training camps (which he quickly could've abandoned before the missles landed). He didn't expect sustained bombings and an invasion.

But what bin Laden wanted--and al Qaeda still wants--is a pan-Islamic state-just listen to Zacarias Moussaoui's ramblings in court. That's why the threat from al Qaeda will continue until they're wiped out.

12 posted on 05/18/2002 7:19:54 AM PDT by Catspaw
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To: TomGuy
An excellent article which ties many loose ends together.

The question is what does OBL think now? My guess is that expansion to the north is on hold. Islamic revolution in Pakistan holds more promise. Attacks on foreigners (Pearl, French), fundamentalistic terror attacks on India to tie up Paki troops in the east and forment a war with the infidels in India, plus the fact that OBL draws considerable domestic support from religious extremists, ISI and the fact that the U.S. is generally respecting Pakistan's borders makes the international isolation of Pakistan and its overthrow from within his most promising strategy.

Also its got nukes.

Watch for an assassination attempt on the President of Pakistan as the next move.

13 posted on 05/18/2002 7:36:18 AM PDT by Ranger
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To: TomGuy
Government officials now say Masoud's assassination was part of a more ambitious design: to establish a caliphate, or religious state, encompassing Afghanistan and parts of Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, Chechnya and the predominantly Muslim Xinjiang region of northwestern China.

I used to think the only thing you couldn't call Bin Laden was stupid. But now I'll have to rethink that. Is it really an intelligent move to attack the west, when one wants control of Centarl Asian regions?

I don't think so.

14 posted on 05/18/2002 7:42:37 AM PDT by liberalism=failure
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To: piasa
The left wing knows how to destroy America. They have done it socially and through legal conniving for many years, steadily eroding the most essential foundation stones of this country.

Even the left wing has made a serious mistake. They made their move too soon and they've been exposed. They mistook our easy attitude for weakness when in reality it's one of our strengths. We have such faith in our system that nobody doubted it could withstand these fools. That was wrong, but it's about to be fixed....BIG TIME.

There's a saying about Irish Wolfhounds that I think applies to the American people. "Gentle when stroked, fierce when provoked"

15 posted on 05/18/2002 7:52:18 AM PDT by McGavin999
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To: TomGuy
I knew it! I've long wondered what Bin Laden thought would happen after 9/11 and came to the conclusion that he decided that based upon all the talk about Bush being so much dumber than Clinton, etc. and then with what happened with China shooting down our plane and us apologizing for it, that there would hardly be any reaction on our part at all. I wonder if knowing that Bush won't put up with this is protecting us from future attempts.
16 posted on 05/18/2002 8:05:14 AM PDT by Aria
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While the USA backed the establishment of an islamic state in Bosnia, islamic/taliban fighters were allowed to fight against the Serbs in the civil war which torn apart that country. The Iranians delivered them and the Saudis paid for their weapons!!

It seems that some of those same talibans ARE STILL IN Israeli minister told the Croatians that, in the opinion of the Israeli govt., BOSNIA IS NOTHING BUT A TALIBAN CELL IN EUROPE.

You can make that a ditto for Kosovo and the KLA.....islamic terror network formed right in the Balkans.....LOOK OUT EUROPE, those jihadists are right under your noses!!!!!

17 posted on 05/18/2002 8:07:56 AM PDT by crazykatz
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To: Irene Adler
"To mistake gentleness for weakness is to underestimate the severity of a Russian winter."
Leon Uris
Mila 18
There is still the possibility of a Carthagenic Peace.
"Don't Tread on Me."

18 posted on 05/18/2002 8:20:41 AM PDT by Savage Beast
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To: Savage Beast
Since I am an atheist and think all gods are phoney,can you tell me how many Christians there are in the world who believe in your "real god"?
19 posted on 05/18/2002 8:22:42 AM PDT by Betty Jo
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To: Betty Jo
Yes, "god" is a term defined in many different ways. How would you define it?
20 posted on 05/18/2002 9:53:18 AM PDT by D-fendr
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