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A 'Culture' of Inverted Sexuality
CERC ^ | Patrick Fagan

Posted on 05/20/2002 5:43:35 PM PDT by JMJ333

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To: Ronaldus Magnus
Doesn't "culture" change over time too? How to separate the cultural changes so that you can isolate acceptance of contraception as causation for something as subjective as "devalueing human life" (presumably more now than before)? After all, valueing human life is conditional on many factors. It wasn't too long previous to the introduction of contraceptives that slavery was acceptable for example.

Yet another reason we need a concise definition of what is meant by the phrase "devalueing human life" so that we can compare apples to apples.
101 posted on 05/23/2002 10:52:32 AM PDT by Lorianne
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To: JMJ333
Lori--I am not going to do your work for you. Go to the article, find the paragraph and read from there. That said, I have no confidence that you will comprehend it. This is like pounding sand. The bottom line is that you are pro-contraception and will not accept the truth that it has led to abortion--if you can't understand that is a specific devaluing of life, nothing more I could ever say will convince you

First off I was referring specifically to your statement, not the entire article (which I have read and found equally vague on the time frame on comparison between before and after and comparison to other cultures which do not embrace contraception).

So, why won't you define what you mean by "devalueing human life"? Above you seem to admit the phrase means specifically abortion. If so, why wouldn't you just state that contraception has lead to abortion? Why use code language?

Lastly, you have no authority to speak for me and state what I believe and what I don't believe.
102 posted on 05/23/2002 10:59:08 AM PDT by Lorianne
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To: EODGUY
Thank you for your response.

Lorraine, of course life is devalued in other cultures, but your "circular" argument is incongruous. Thank you for acknowledging this. "Please tell me how our society values human life more than other societies and cultures when we have legalized and conducted the murder of over 30 million babies?" Well, I don't believe I did say that we value human life more than other societies. We certainly do in many respects, in my opinion. Abortion is a good example, in my opinion, of "devalueing human life". Abortion is not, however, the only example of devalueing human life. And it is not limited to our society. I also fail to see how abortion is any worse than post birth infanticide, or slowly killing children by withholding nutrition and healthcare, or prostituting children who die an at an early age of disease and mistreatment. Abortion it an abomination .... among many other abominations in our world.

We have to be the leaders, tragically, in the dehumanization of life.

Despite our despicable example of abortion, I don't believe we in the USA are the leaders in dehumannizing life. We have many problems and social ills, yet we are the beacon of hope for the world with regard to human life. Yes, we need to do better. Yes, we need to eliminate abortion. BUT, relative to most of the world and virtually all of human history, we have the most respect for the all of human life (except the unborn) than any other society in the history of human beings.
103 posted on 05/23/2002 11:21:53 AM PDT by Lorianne
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To: nina0113
ping for a superb article and some really dumb comments.
104 posted on 05/23/2002 11:48:33 AM PDT by Steve1789
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To: Polycarp
"His arguments are neither simplistic nor over extended but 100% dead right on."

Yes, they are right on.

Carolyn

105 posted on 05/23/2002 11:49:32 AM PDT by CDHart
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To: Lorianne
So, why won't you define what you mean by "devalueing human life"?

I'll repeat it again, though I have zero confidence that you are willing to hear and comprehend me.

Contraception allows people to have sex without consequence, but it isn't "fool proof." People get pregnant everyday who are using the pill. Many of these unwanted pregnancys result in abortion. THAT IS DEVALUIZATION OF LIFE. When selfish behavior results in violent death of innocent and defenseless babies it cheapens the sanctity and value of humanity--plain and simple.

If so, why wouldn't you just state that contraception has lead to abortion? Why use code language?

I have! Repeatedly! And along with abortion comes an indifference and crassness toward how people are treated--like the elderly and those who some don't deem worthy of life like those who are mentally handicapped, which is why I stated in several other posts about genetic tampering, cloning, stem cells, etc.

Lastly, you have no authority to speak for me and state what I believe and what I don't believe.

I am not speaking for you. I'm judging your comments. Now, if you want to define why you are in favor of contraception then feel free, but again, anything you post to me will be subject to debate and critique.

106 posted on 05/23/2002 5:26:22 PM PDT by JMJ333
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To: Don Myers
I agree and thanks for posting to me, Don. Glad to know there are still men of principle out there. =)
107 posted on 05/23/2002 5:28:39 PM PDT by JMJ333
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To: Lorianne
Yes, we need to eliminate abortion. BUT, relative to most of the world and virtually all of human history, we have the most respect for the all of human life (except the unborn) than any other society in the history of human beings.

See, when you stay on topic we can actually agree.

On a recent thread I read a poster complain about his tax dollars being used to aid the infirmed and those without means. He was very adamant that it was purely a financial decision for him. I fear this attitude is becoming much more pervasive in our country.

I pray that we never experience or accept the atrocious behavior seen in China, for example, but I do believe that the acceptance of contraception (especially abortifacients), abortion, partial birth abortion and euthanasia are signs that we are moving quickly in that direction.

Regards

108 posted on 05/23/2002 6:37:16 PM PDT by EODGUY
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To: JMJ333
Men of principle have a big problem in this world. It was not made for us.
109 posted on 05/23/2002 7:21:42 PM PDT by Don Myers
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