Posted on 05/23/2002 5:52:52 AM PDT by TroutStalker
Edited on 04/22/2004 11:46:32 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]
MEMPHIS, Tenn. -- The only Jew Matthew Eastburn remembers knowing until recently was his sinus doctor. But earlier this month, the 20-year-old Baptist walked into the orthodox Baron Hirsch Temple and started cheering.
Joining his pastor there, Mr. Eastburn waved an Israeli flag as local rabbis and a Republican congressman lashed out at Yasser Arafat and expressed their loyalty to the Jewish state. "It was thrilling," he said afterward. When the rally was over, he heeded a call for Christian conservatives nationwide to place a phone call to President Bush expressing support for Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon. The White House comment line was jammed.
(Excerpt) Read more at online.wsj.com ...
I hope that the Jewish voting bloc starts to understand that the frivolous charges by demoSTUPIDs that conservatives are antisemitic is total BUNK!
This is just another reason why the demoNUGGETs are as desperate as they are.
Q: How did Israel become a favorite cause of the Christian Right?A: Jesus was a Jew.
Not a chance. Who do you think is behind the charge? Who is always dragging Christians to court for expressing their faith?
If the Jewish vote merely goes 50-50, we win because we will have not only taken votes away, but a fair number of Jews also do pretty good fundraising work. More money for the ads and campaigns, you see.
And it's all from a principled backing of Israel, too.
From what I've read,this has led to considerable alarm among Jews;but, needing all the help they can get, they have been polite to people they consider almost as much of a threat to Israel as the Muslims.
Werner was not a Nazi, but a top-rate scientist. Thank God we got him and not the Russians. My dad met him several times many years ago and said that Werner was a #1 class act. This from a family of Southern Baptists 100% behind Israel.
and how Arafat, Castro, and Red China became a favorite cause of the Liberal Left.
I think if those exist they are the same Christians that think that teaching "doctrine" is legalistic and that pretty much anything goes in church too as long as you are emotionally moved to cry or laugh hysterically or roll on the floor.
and how Arafat, Castro, and Red China became a favorite cause of the Liberal Left.Ya know... birds with the same feathers flock together kind' thing.
I believe that this is in part, true (shamefully so), but in part, a misunderstanding of Christian viewpoints. No doubt there are some Christians who support Israel solely for what they think they will eventually gain by her success, ie the end of the world as we know it and Christ's kingdom on earth, throne in Jerusalem etc. But that's not why most Christians support Israel, nor should it be.
We support Israel because the Jews are God's chosen people and He tells us to. We support Israel because God's covenant with His people is permanent and irrevocable and must be honored for as long as He says so, and He tells Jeremiah that the day the sun refuses to shine and the moon and stars don't appear in the sky is the day He breaks His promises to Israel - in other words - never. We support Israel because Paul tells us in Romans that their temporary blindness is the only thing that allows for our salvation in the meantime. He says that God has NOT forgotten Israel, that He has a plan for Israel that we can't begin to comprehend, because He is God and we are not, so don't get cocky in some false superiority - remember we are grafted into THEIR tree. We are to wait patiently for God to fulfil His plans in HIS time, not ours. Any Christian who supports Israel because they think that as a result they can somehow force God's prophetic hand is sorely mistaken and sadly misguided.
And if we've really done our homework, we can actually set all biblical claims aside and look at it from a completely secular, political and historical standpoint, and STILL support Israel because logic tells us who has the moral high ground and the facts on her side.
Baloney.
What garbage!
Tuor
Do you have actual facts that connect him to the Nazi's? I must admit that I am not extremely familiar with the various people associated with the Nazis during WWII.
Some do, most don't. When my wife converted to Judaism, her "conservative religious right" sister and brother-in-law strongly supported her decision. (As did the rest of her family who are also mostly conservative and Christian, though not of the religious right.)
Hardly a class act. More the ultimate pragmatist.
I think it's time to break out the Tom Lehrer song about WvB:
Gather 'round while I sing you of Wernher von Braun, A man whose allegiance Is ruled by expedience. Call him a Nazi, he won't even frown, "Ha, Nazi, Schmazi," says Wernher von Braun. Don't say that he's hypocritical, Say rather that he's apolitical. "Once the rockets are up, who cares where they come down? That's not my department," says Wernher von Braun. Some have harsh words for this man of renown, But some think our attitude Should be one of gratitude, Like the widows and cripples in old London town, Who owe their large pensions to Wernher von Braun. You too may be a big hero, Once you've learned to count backwards to zero. "In German oder English I know how to count down, Und I'm learning Chinese!" says Wernher von Braun.
Not completely familiar with von Braun's history in this connection, but the material that I have seen suggest that he was essentially apolitical, that he was one of those who believed in space travel, and became involved as a teenager with rocket enthusiasts, some of whom were Jewish and fled to the US in the 1930's. When the Germans started spending money on military rocketry he went to work for them, and was not opposed to building his country's military, even though Germany was under Nazi rule. During the war he came under suspicion because he was not a party member, and was actually detained by the Gestapo. After this he prudently joined the party, much as leading Soviet scientists became Communists.
While he was in overall charge of the rocket program, his direct concern was with the development and testing of rockets, not the manufacturing process, which took place in a different part of Germany. Like all major manufacturing centers during WWII in Germany, slave labor was used. In this sense, like any person responsible for manufacturing in WWII Germany, vonBraun has to be held responsible for not heroically opposing the policies of his government, which would inevitably have lead to his execution.
Gather 'round while I sing you of Wernher von Braun,
A man whose allegiance
Is ruled by expedience.
Call him a Nazi, he won't even frown,
"Ha, Nazi, Schmazi," says Wernher von Braun.
Don't say that he's hypocritical,
Say rather that he's apolitical.
"Once the rockets are up, who cares where they come down?
That's not my department," says Wernher von Braun.
Some have harsh words for this man of renown,
But some think our attitude
Should be one of gratitude,
Like the widows and cripples in old London town,
Who owe their large pensions to Wernher von Braun.
You too may be a big hero,
Once you've learned to count backwards to zero.
"In German oder English I know how to count down,
Und I'm learning Chinese!" says Wernher von Braun.
It ignores the fact that Israel's support may have come because its cause is just. Israel's growing support also has a lot to do with the fact that after 9/11, many Americans can see that this nation is as much a target for Islamic hatred and destruction as Israel is.
We have gotten glimpses behind the curtain to see who are true enemies are, and now have some understanding of Islamic speak, and truly understand what is meant by "after Saturday, comes Sunday."
I believe that what really bugged Lehrer about von Braun was that von Braun was a critical leader of the US space program and the development of our ICBM's. Lehrer was more of a Red than a pinko.
Agreed!
Further, conservatives, most of whom in the U.S. are Christians, make the cultural and religious connection between the Jewish Christ and the Jewish roots of Christianity, and the fact that the God of the Old Testament, the God of Israel, is also the Christian God.
Further, most conservatives, being intelligent and well read historically, are aware of the past record and current practise of what has got to be the most vile, violent, and intolerant religious cult to have ever existed, and the writings and behavior of its founder: Islam.
As for most American Jews being liberal Democrats, this has been true in the past and is true at present. However, Orthodox and Hassidic Jews tend to vote conservative because their value systems and morality are more reflective of conservative values.
The balance of American Jews tend to be liberal and Democratic because their ancestors came over here at a time when the Republican Party and the conservative elements of the Democratic Party were run by racists who wanted to exclude immigrants from eastern and southern Europe from the American social and political scene, and that included most Jewish immigrants. On the other hand, the corrupt political machines of the inner cities, where most of these people settled, were run by Democrats, and they welcomed anybody's vote and repaid them with patronage, while indoctrinating them with propaganda about evil Anglo-robber barons and the political party which represented them - the Republicans. This was also the case with many Italian and Irish and Polish immigrants.
HOWEVER, times and people have changed. And the propaganda spun by the Democratics is wearing thin, even on its most recent victims, the Hispanics and Blacks. For very many of these people, as for very many Jews, family values mean something, as does the American Dream, fundamental human freedom, and the right to live without onerous government control in an environment free of predatory criminals, perverts and illegal invaders.
Consequently, the Republican Party, if it remains true to its conservative roots, supports the correct party, n this case Israel, and uses some intelligent stratgies, can really bury the Socialistic homophilic, atheistic, anti-American zoo which has become the Democratic party.
The support for Israel by America's religious conservatives is merely the first step. By active recruiting among new immigrant groups, like some of the Hispanics, Asians, etc, who are small business owners, hard workers, and people with strong family values, they can destroy the liberal Democrats.
The Truth Shall Make Us Free.
Further, conservatives, most of whom in the U.S. are Christians, make the cultural and religious connection between the Jewish Christ and the Jewish roots of Christianity, and the fact that the God of the Old Testament, the God of Israel, is also the Christian God.
Further, most conservatives, being intelligent and well read historically, are aware of the past record and current practise of what has got to be the most vile, violent, and intolerant religious cult to have ever existed, and the writings and behavior of its founder: Islam.
As for most American Jews being liberal Democrats, this has been true in the past and is true at present. However, Orthodox and Hassidic Jews tend to vote conservative because their value systems and morality are more reflective of conservative values.
The balance of American Jews tend to be liberal and Democratic because their ancestors came over here at a time when the Republican Party and the conservative elements of the Democratic Party were run by racists who wanted to exclude immigrants from eastern and southern Europe from the American social and political scene, and that included most Jewish immigrants. On the other hand, the corrupt political machines of the inner cities, where most of these people settled, were run by Democrats, and they welcomed anybody's vote and repaid them with patronage, while indoctrinating them with propaganda about evil Anglo-robber barons and the political party which represented them - the Republicans. This was also the case with many Italian and Irish and Polish immigrants.
HOWEVER, times and people have changed. And the propaganda spun by the Democratics is wearing thin, even on its most recent victims, the Hispanics and Blacks. For very many of these people, as for very many Jews, family values mean something, as does the American Dream, fundamental human freedom, and the right to live without onerous government control in an environment free of predatory criminals, perverts and illegal invaders.
Consequently, the Republican Party, if it remains true to its conservative roots, supports the correct party, n this case Israel, and uses some intelligent stratgies, can really bury the Socialistic homophilic, atheistic, anti-American zoo which has become the Democratic party.
The support for Israel by America's religious conservatives is merely the first step. By active recruiting among new immigrant groups, like some of the Hispanics, Asians, etc, who are small business owners, hard workers, and people with strong family values, they can destroy the liberal Democrats.
The Truth Shall Make Us Free.
As they say, "You learn something everyday." I guess this was my lesson. (Can I go back to sleep now?)
Alot has changed over the years. For the past 20 years it has been the Christain conservatives who have whole heartedly supported Isreal. Although this began as far back with William Buckley, this is mostly because of Reagan who supported Isreal because he saw a thriving democracy in a region filled with filthy savages and bloody tyrants. Nothing has changed with the liberal country club Republican types though.
Conversely, the left has changed on Isreal as well. Democrats have increasingly supported more anti-American and anti-Western causes, exposing a the hidden anti-Semitism of the liberal elite that has been overlooked for a long time.
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