Skip to comments.White House plan would create Palestinian state; Proposal goes beyond just endorsing idea...
Posted on 05/30/2002 5:20:31 PM PDT by RCW2001Edited on 04/13/2004 1:39:36 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]
WASHINGTON -- The United States is working on a Middle East peace proposal that would include creating an independent Palestinian state, senior administration officials said Wednesday.
Such a plan would go a step further than the previous U.S. position, which was merely to endorse the idea of statehood.
(Excerpt) Read more at usatoday.com ...
Or falling in line with the Clintons?
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And moved forward by one week for each innocent Palestinian murdered by Israeli terrorists...retroactive to the Balfour Declaration.
June 27th to July 18th, three weeks of mourning.
Many G-d fearing men fought for freedom and America in WWII and won. Now most have died. America has now fallen away and missed the message of the towers. Joshua won many battles and after he and those of his generation died (Judges 2:6 ff.), the children of Israel did evil in the sight of the Lord and served other gods which are no gods, and provoked the Lord to anger and judgment fell on Joshua's descendants.
Jg 2:11 And the children of Israel did evil in the sight of the LORD, and served Baalim:
12 And they forsook the LORD God of their fathers, which brought them out of the land of Egypt, and followed other gods, of the gods of the people that were round about them, and bowed themselves unto them, and provoked the LORD to anger.
13 And they forsook the LORD, and served Baal and Ashtaroth.
Rewarding terrorists. Don't worry, they mean us no harm.
Give Arafat credit, he reads the American political climate well.
And that's the end of it. From then, kill, jail, deport terrorists until the violence ends.
I applaud this idea. Of course, since there has never, ever been an independent state called "Palestine", there can not be any people called "Palestinians". Now, Chief Terrorist and Mass Murderer Arafat has created the myth of a "Palestinian people" as part of his propaganda campaign against Israel and we have evidence that you subscribe to this Arab propaganda wholeheartedly. However, despite your deeply held beliefs, it is still propaganda.
Ben boy, its great to hear from you again! Apparently my President (that would by George Bush) also subscribes to this myth of Palestine. Unfortunately, you seem to believe that my President has fallen victim to "Arab propaganda". I realize that your leader (Mr. Sharoniac a/k/a Israel's #1 war criminal) does not believe in a Palestinian state and thinks that the Palestinians should be "transferred". I'll go with my leader's beliefs, you go with yours.
I have no doubt that, in your world, the Holocaust never occurred. However, in the real world, it did. The so-called "Palestinians" are another story. They are no different from other Arabs. They do not have a separate language, culture, faith, or even cuisine. Therefore, what makes them a separate people?
Always nice to expose your ignorance.
Apparently my President (that would by George Bush) also subscribes to this myth of Palestine. Unfortunately, you seem to believe that my President has fallen victim to "Arab propaganda".
The President has to play politics. It is unfortunate that he lacks the bravery to tell the truth, but it is understandable.
I realize that your leader (Mr. Sharoniac a/k/a Israel's #1 war criminal) does not believe in a Palestinian state and thinks that the Palestinians should be "transferred".
Ah, the mature name calling again. No matter, let's deal with the lack of facts in your statement. Sharon does believe in a "Palestinian State" and has said so. Moreover, he does not advocate transfer. And, as I have pointed out previously, neither do I. So, we see you are wrong again. Nothing new there.
I'll go with my leader's beliefs, you go with yours.
Excellent. My leader is G-D, and I do go along with Him. You, of course, do not.
Ben, Ben, Ben c'mon and think before you post. You see, the U.N, the European Union, the Bush White House, the Chinese, etc. believe in a Palestinian state. It's only you, Sharoniac, the New Kach party and a few other fanatics that believe in killing off or "transferring" the Palestinians who have already been made refugees once. Why don't you join in and give these folks a break. After all, a secure and independent Palestine would be good for Isreal. The alternative is only more bloodshead on both sides.
I get it now, President Bush and I are not only morons, but we lack courage for failing to support the right wing of Israeli politics. Lord knows we need more great Americans like you, Ben.
Dude, you and Moronica are the biggest name callers on this site.
Unfortunately, a "country" that other "countries" would then have freer reign to ship WMD to...
Look, do you actually believe that the Palestinians can make a go on their own? There will be a minimum of 5 years of infighting to even form a "government" No pro "Palestinian" Middle Eastern" country is willing to help them if it costs anything. There is no percentage in developing WMD capabilities in a Palestinian ghetto. At least that is my opinion.
Yup ! They don't get it do they ?
Apply that same logic back to Israel back in 1948 or what every year ot was?
They made it because the USA paid their way !
That is not exactly the case. The US gave Israel very little in the way of monetary support until the 1960's. But you make a valid point. The "Palestinian state" will just be another welfare state. Two things will come from this. Either the Palestinians will be satisfied and live in peace OR they will continue their suicidal tendencies but without the facade of being "occupied" people. That is what I meant about a country to declare war on, not just a "people".
I really haven't encountered any supporters of Muslim terrorism here on FR...you must be hangin' out with the wrong crowd. I have run into a few rabid Zionists...watch out for them. They're really radical, always talking and joking about killing "Palis", etc. The best way to deal with them is to hit the abuse button. By the way, I know you meant no disrespect to anyone, but "Muslim" should be capitalized.
I'm calling you on this one, missy. Prove it.
Hint: I almost always imply something about someone, and rarely, if ever, call a name. For example, in this post to you, I never call you a liar, but it is implied.
You should take your own advice.
You see, the U.N, the European Union, the Bush White House, the Chinese, etc. believe in a Palestinian state.
So what? Morally, they are all wrong to do so.
It's only you, Sharoniac, the New Kach party and a few other fanatics that believe in killing off or "transferring" the Palestinians who have already been made refugees once.
As usual, you are incorrect. I have never advocated killing off or transferring the so-called "Palestinians". But while we're on the subject of refugees, can you explain to me why all the people, nations, and organizations you mentioned above failed to call for a Palestinian State when Jordon and Egypt controlled the territories? You can't? What a surprise!
Why don't you join in and give these folks a break.
Because people who celebrate while their Arab buddies murder over 3000 of my countrymen don't deserve a break. Obviously, you feel differently about those who rejoiced at the murders of my countrymen. Again, no surprise.
After all, a secure and independent Palestine would be good for Isreal. The alternative is only more bloodshead on both sides.
Well, judging by your previous posts, the only bloodshed you care about is when so-called "Palestinians" are killed. So can your false concern about "both sides". Moreover, you cannot prove that a "secure and independent Palestine" would be good for Israel or is even achievable. After all, just how many Arab democracies are there?
First thing you've said that makes any sense.
I don't recall ever calling either you or the President a moron so maybe you could point that out to me? But, yes, the President lacks the courage to tell the whole truth about the so-called "Palestinians". After September 11th, he said some brave words about terrorists. Then he failed to apply those standards to those who blow up little Jewish children. If that's not moral cowardice, then what is it?
BTW, as regards YOUR courage, I never said a word about it. However, I harbor no illusions about that either.
The relevance is that they have no land/political/legal rights except those given to them by those who control the area, and Israel has been more than generous in that regard. The lie that they are a distinct people and thus entitled to rights as a distinct people should be exposed. The land was never, ever theirs. They exist on it due to the generousity of the Israelis and, had it not been for the UN and the other Arab countries, their existance would be much better than it is. In 1967, when Israel first won the lands in a defensive war, they offered to provide basic humanitarian care to these people and help them build decent homes, hospitals, schools, etc. But the UN and the other Arabs, wanting to keep these people in shabby conditions so that they could exploit them and keep their hatred alive, told Israel not to do it. Israel should not have listened.
I have never advocated killing off or transferring the so-called "Palestinians".
Please explain just what you and Sharoniac would do to these people you hate so much.
The US provided about 3% of their GNP by giving the Israelis a credit to buy American arms and goods. Hardly, "paying their way". But if you want to go on with this attitude, go right ahead.
The reality is that we help Israel because it's in our best interests to help Israel. If we hadn't helped Israel in 1973, they might have used their nukes on the Arabs. True, they might have vaporized themselves, but they would have taken a large percentage of the world's oil supply with them, and the planetary effects of such a large scale nuclear operation would be disasterous.
During the Holocaust, the world paid a price for allowing Hitler to exterminate the Jews. The world still doesn't realize or acknowledge the price, but it is there. If the world is willing to sit by and watch the Arabs exterminate the Jews of Israel, the Israelis are prepared to exact a much higher price for the world's hatred and/or indifference. I imagine you would feel similarly if you were in their shoes.
Get the arabs off Israel's land!
I don't know since I don't belong to the ADL. How are things at Hamas HQ? Or is it the KKK? Want to keep being obnoxious or would you like to grow up?
Please explain just what you and Sharoniac would do to these people you hate so much.
Since you fail to answer even one of my questions, I don't see why I should honor yours. Moreover, you fail to show where either Sharon or I "hate" these people. Although I can appreciate how much you love those who celebrated the murder of my countrymen.
Let me know when you'd like to stop this silliness and grow up.
The difference between us is that I believe in looking out for America's interests first
Most here on FR, and most conservative Christians and Jews in America understand that in the case of muslim and fascist arab terrorism, the interests of America and Israel coincide. Caving to arab terrorism is wrong and dangerous for Israel as it is wrong and dangerous for the U.S. Thus by proclaiming yourself against Israel in the war against fascist arab terrorism, you have put yourself on the terrorist side against the U.S. as well.
You also wrote:
So at Deir Yasin they were particularly vicious with rape and baby's being killed.
Even Arabs acknowledge that there was no rape nor intentional targeting of children, and that the casualties, while horrendous, were exaggerated. Your insistence on blood libels continues to mark you as a fool and/or a spokesman for savages.
In a fit of your own name -calling you also wrote:
Only a moron such as yourself believes that Isreal is more secure under his leadership.
Actually, only a moron such as yourself believes that America is safer by forcing the creation of another Iraqistan in the midst of Israel (please note the spelling...). In our worthwhile efforts to defeat the USSR, we inadvertently assisted Bin Laden with disastrous results. Forcing the creation of another islamic/arab terror state is the sign of a short memory and/or insanity.
"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over, but expecting different results," applies here. America detogofied Japan and denazified Germany; the world will be a safer place if Israel does the same with Yesha; actually the world would be a better place if Israel continued the population exchange begun by the Arab world in 1948 when the Arabs forced out 800,000 Jews from the Arab world.
You can scream and cry and SPIN "transfer, " "genocide," "ethnic cleansing" all you want but America's (and some of Europes's) postwar policy worked wonders, and Israel should do likewise. While there is more than enough Arab land for Arafatistan AWAY from the borders of Israel, insuring that all arab terrorists and their supporters are either deported or dead before creating another Arab state is the only solution that will prevent the loss of more Jewish and Christian lives in Israel AND America (and MUSLIM lives as well - muslim terrorists that you defend and exhort have killed over 100,000 Algerians in 2 decades while you and your "pals" whine about Israel and Baruch Goldstein; America and Israel would do the MUSLIM world a favor by dejihadifying the mideast, something the Arabs themselves are incapable or unwilling to do themselves).
you also wrote: I really haven't encountered any supporters of Muslim terrorism here on FR.
You should try looking in the mirror. As above, you are either for terrorism aimed at Judeo-Christian lives and values, or your against it. You have made it perfectly clear from your posts that you are either ignorant and deluded as to the nature of the conflict, or you are such a rapidly pro-Fatah shill that you are a danger to those around you. As a religious Jew, I am compelled to consider the former possibility and give you the benefit of the doubt, but as a religious Jew I am also compelled to destroy that which comes to destroy me and mine. "That" definitely includes your pathetic attempts at propaganda, and "me and mine" includes America and Israel, Christians and Jews.
You also wrote in this thread: By the way, I know you meant no disrespect to anyone, but "Muslim" should be capitalized.
Unless you inadvertently left out "/sarcasm off/" don't presume to claim to know who or what I have respect for. Certainly I have very little respect for islam. To paraphrase a Freeper who has written before me, "radical fundamentalist islam is a death cult, and moderate islam is it's trojan horse." If you are muslim, then I suggest you would serve yourself, America and your co-religionists better by either cleaning your own house quickly, or consider converting out. If you are not muslim, you might try either therapy or at the very least start wearing a steel collar, because if the people you support do succeed in their goals, after coming for me they will be looking to slit your throat as well, no matter how much you whine "but I supported the destruction of Israel! Check my posts on FR! I bashed Jews and Israel with the best of them!"
How many more times must we hear this stupid statement? Go read the Balfour Declaration to see where the term "Palestinian" comes from.
By equating every Palestinian with terrorism, you are engaging in thinking that is dehumanizing, irrational, ungodly, and plain wrong.
Look, do you actually believe that the Palestinians can make a go on their own? >
With help from the U.S., unfortunately yes, and that is exactly what is going on here; the US is helping them, and it will come back to bite us just like Afghanistan.
It's called blowback. And it's not just Israel that I am worried about. The arabists in State have W by the hairs; they keep whining the "coalition" charade, he keeps mouthing how he doesn't trust Arafat, and then every few weeks, REGARDLESS OF HOW OBVIOUS IT IS that the only way to stop the muslim war against the Judeo-Christian world is to squash it completely as the U.S. did with Germany and japan post ww2, State and arab-symps in the WH edge further towards the de facto establishment of a pal terror state within Israel's borders.
There will be a minimum of 5 years of infighting to even form a "government" No pro "Palestinian" Middle Eastern" country is willing to help them if it costs anything.
With all due respect, that is not only confirmable, but it is also evidence that we should NOT be trying to define them as a nation state so quickly. If they can't govern themselves without a civil war, what the heck are doing propping them up as a state?
And the evidence as to Arab world assistance is to the contrary: the saudis and the iraqis and the iranians AND THE EU AND THE US have been propping them up and will certainly continue to do so!
There is no percentage in developing WMD capabilities in a Palestinian ghetto. At least that is my opinion.
I respect your opinion, but the evidence does not support it. Arabs in Yesha have been importing and creating stronger and stronger weapons for years; last week Israel confirmed they blocked arab attempts to put a 1000 lb bomb on their own WTC in Tel Aviv. The arabs have been putting rat poison in with their nail bombs for months if not years; how can you presume that given the opportunity and means to import/control NBC components, that they would not use them? Because of their great humanitarian concern for the risk to their own casualties? Arabs in Israel danced on the rooftops when Saddam launched Scud missiles into Israel, knowing full well that those warheads could have contained BC components. Sorry, but you don't give a kid who plays with matches a credit card to buy fire starter...
There is no moral or historical justification for creating this state on Israeli land; at the very least there is the geographical-political reality that just because a few cronies of arafat are discussing running against him does NOT mean the time is ripe to formalize their state. IF one must consider putting ANOTHER ARAB STATE ON NON-ARAB LAND, then doing it without YEARS of dijiadificatuon is insane. It's clear - total domination and occupation and deportation of terrorists and their bases INSURES fewer terrorist attacks; giving the arabs control over their own area AND USING THE CIA TO REBUILD THEIR OWN SECURITY APPARATUS is a step backwards until the complete elimination of terrorists and their supporters has been completed.
It would be as if after signing the armistices, America just walked out of Germany and Japan and said, ok, "we beat you, go back to running yourselves just as you did before... And please don't rise up and attack Pearl Harbor or Western Europe again...oh, and don't let other nations take you over and use your land/population/industries for their own goals, either..."
You interjected: By equating every Palestinian with terrorism, you are engaging in thinking that is dehumanizing, irrational, ungodly, and plain wrong.
engaging in thinking... what are you going to do next, call in the thought-police and send me to re education camp?
Like this guy?
What's your problem? I must have hit a nerve... Do you stand with the lies and justification for intentional attacks on women and children that HC and aracrap sputters about? What are you and he, the only "palestinians" not dedicated to destroying Israel and America? If so, go clean up your nest, and then maybe if you drop your "thought-police / re education camp" jargon, America can justify islamo-welfare on moral and security grounds. If you are not, who the H are you to color my stance for the defense of Judeo-Christian lives, values and territory as "dehumanizing, irrational, ungodly, and plain wrong." The only thing "dehumanizing, irrational, ungodly, and plain wrong" is islamic and fascist arab terrorism, and those fools who get suckered into being it's apologists.
PS - Go look here for the origin of "palestinian;" it's source is almost 2 millenia before Balfour, and it doesn't have anything to do with Arabs.
The statement is factual and not stupid. I said an "INDEPENDENT" Palestinian state. Try to read and understand that concept before you post again.
And, by the way, I noticed to failed to provide proof of your accusation. What a surprise!!!
Next time you post, try a little honesty.
Are you a liberal?