Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

The Music of the Spheres, or the Metaphysics of Music
ISI.ORG ^ | Fall 2001 | Robert R. Reilly

Posted on 06/03/2002 8:57:40 PM PDT by cornelis

THE MUSIC OF THE SPHERES, OR
THE METAPHYSICS OF MUSIC

. . . According to tradition, the harmonic structure of music was discovered by Pythagoras about the fifth century B.C. Pythagoras experimented with a stretched piece of cord. When plucked, the cord sounded a certain note. When halved in length and plucked again, the cord sounded a higher note completely consonant with the first. In fact, it was the same note at a higher pitch. Pythagoras had discovered the ration 2:1, of the octave. Further experiments, plucking the strings two-thirds of its original length produced a perfect fifth in the ratio of 3:2. When a three-quarters length of cord was plucked, a perfect fourth was sounded in the ratio of 4:3, and so forth. These sounds were all consonant and extremely pleasing to the ear. The significance that Pythagoras attributed to this discovery cannot be overestimated. Pythagoras thought that number was the key to the universe . . . As Aristotle explained in the Metaphysics, the Pythagoreans "supposed the elements of numbers to be the elements of all things, and the whole heaven to be a musical scale and a number." This was meant literally. The heavenly spheres and their rotations through the sky produced tones at various levels, and in concert, these tones made a harmonious sound that man's music, at its best, could approximate. Music was number made audible. Music was man's participation in the harmony of the universe.

This discovery was fraught with ethical significance. By participating in heavenly harmony, music could induce spiritual harmony in the soul . . .

The systematic fragmentation of music was the logical working out of the premise that music is not governed by mathematical relationships and laws that inhere in the structure of a hierarchical and ordered universe, but is wholly constructed by man and therefore essentially without limits or definition. Tonality, as the pre-existing principle of order in the world of sound, goes the same way as the objective moral order . . .

If there is no pre-existing intelligible order to go out to and apprehend, and to search through for what lies beyond it--which is the Creator--what then is music supposed to express? If external order does not exist, then music turns inward. It collapses on itself and becomes an obsession with technique. Any ordering of things, musical or otherwise, becomes simply the whim of man's will . . .

What was needed, according to John Cage (1912-1992), was to have absolutely no organization . . . He presented concerts of kitchen sounds and the sounds of the human body amplified through loudspeakers. Perhaps Cage's most notorious work was his 4'33'' during which the performer silently sits with his instrument for that exact period of time, then rises and leaves the stage. The "music" is whatever extraneous noises the audience hears in the silence the performer has created. In his book Silence, Cage announced, "here we are. Let us say Yes to our presence together in Chaos."

What was the purpose of all this? Precisely to make the point that there is no purpose, or to express what Cage called a "purposeful purposelessness," the aim of which was to emancipate people from the tyranny of meaning.

With his noise, Cage worked out musically the full implications of Rousseau's non-teleological view of nature in his Second Discourse. Cage did for music what Rousseau did for political philosophy. Perhaps the most profoundly anti-Aristotelian philosopher of the eighteenth century, Rousseau turned Aristotle's notion of nature on its head. Aristotle said that nature defined not only what man is, but what he should be. Rousseau countered that nature is not an end--a telos--but a beginning: man's end is his beginning. There is nothing he "ought" to become, no moral imperative. There is no purpose in man or nature; existence is therefore bereft of any rational principle. Rousseau asserted that man by nature was not a social or political animal endowed with reason. What man has become is the result, not of nature, but of accident. And the society resulting from that accident has corrupted man.

According to Rousseau, man was originally isolated in the state of nature, where the pure "sentiment of his own existence" was such that "one suffices to oneself, like god." Yet this self-satisfied god was asocial and pre-rational. Only by accident did man come into association with others. Somehow, this accident ignited his reason. Through his association with others, man lost his self-sufficient "sentiment of his own existence." He became alienated. He began to live in the esteem of others instead of in his own self-esteem.

Rousseau knew that the pre-rational asocial state of nature was lost forever, but thought that an all-powerful state could ameliorate the situation of alienated man. The state could restore a simulacrum of that original well-being by removing all man's subsidiary social relationships. By destroying man's familial, social, and political ties, the state could make each individual totally dependent on the state, and independent of each other. The state is the vehicle for bringing people together so that they can be apart: a sort of radical individualism under state sponsorship.

It is necessary to pay this much attention to Rousseau because Cage shares his denigration of reason, the same notion of alienation, and a similar solution to it. In both men, the primacy of the accidental eliminates nature as a normative guide and becomes the foundation for man's total freedom. Like Rousseau's man in the state of nature, Cage said, "I strive toward the non-mental." The quest is to "provide a music free from one's memory and imagination." If man is the product of accident, his music should likewise be accidental. Life itself is very fine "once one gets one's mind and one's desires out of the way and lets it act of its own accord."

link to pdf



TOPICS: Culture/Society; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: boethius; cicero; holmboe; johncage; plato; pythagoras; rousseau; schoenberg; sibelius; stclement
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-52 next last
Interesting and readable, although it says nothing about the popularity of music which incites negatively. Of course, music is most influential when it is not entirely bad; it would hardly be popular in an absolute style for very long. Cage is not played on the radio.
1 posted on 06/03/2002 8:57:40 PM PDT by cornelis
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: cornelis
Oh I don't know. Every time I hear 4'33" it gives me goosebumps--radio or not.
2 posted on 06/03/2002 9:08:49 PM PDT by Savage Beast
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: cornelis
The understanding of higher musical structures is not easily achievable. It takes a lot of sophisticated training to understand the modern art musical universe. That's why modern music is not easily accepted by wide audiences. Cage was sound experimenting more than composing, he was an important historical figure, but not even composers listen to his music often.
3 posted on 06/03/2002 9:11:45 PM PDT by aristotleman
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Savage Beast
LOL.

Our choir sang a Biebl piece and there is a certain individual who inevitably had to "break the silence" with a silly question after the last chord rings out.

4 posted on 06/03/2002 9:13:09 PM PDT by cornelis
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: aristotleman
We can say that art, musical or pictoral, has two kinds of expression: the hieratic and the demotic. One is characterized by increasing complexity of order, the other a decreasing complexity. If we stretch the poles further, beyond the demotic there is the avant-garde and beyond the demotic there is propaganda. It probably is true that all great art is neither of these extremes, but mixture of the demotic and hieratic.
5 posted on 06/03/2002 9:20:18 PM PDT by cornelis
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

sorry, beyond the hieratic
6 posted on 06/03/2002 9:21:37 PM PDT by cornelis
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: cornelis
Like Rousseau's man in the state of nature, Cage said, "I strive toward the non-mental."

Mission accomplished.

7 posted on 06/03/2002 9:29:43 PM PDT by Risky Schemer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: cornelis
Interesting, but this essay is wanting.

Pythagorean tuning is woefully lacking. Bach's 24 Well Tempered Clavier pieces laid the groundwork for transposing a melody in a single composition.

The "twelfth root of two" is the best you'll get - and it's a sad metaphor for our Nation...

8 posted on 06/03/2002 9:30:59 PM PDT by Senator Pardek
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: aristotleman
It takes a lot of sophisticated training to understand the modern art musical universe.

There is a nice piece by Ortega Y Gasset on this subject in The Dehumanization of Art:

Every work of art awakens different responses: some people like it, others do not; some like it less, others more. No principle is involved: the accident of our individual disposition will decide where we stand. But in the case of modern art the separation occurs on a deeper plane than the mere difference sin individual taste. It is not a matter of the majority of the public not liking the new work and the minority liking it. What happens is that the majority, the mass of the people, does not understand it.

In my opinion, the characteristic of contemporary art 'from the soiological point of view' is that it divides the public into these two classes of men: those who undertand it and those who do not. . .

Modern art, evidently, is not for everybody, as was Romantic art, but from the outset is aimed at a special, gifted minority. Hence the irritation it arouses in the majority. When someone does not like a work of art, but has understood it, he feels superior to it and has no room for irritation. But when distate arises from the fact of its not having been understood, then the spectator feels humiliated, with an obscure awareness of his inferiority for which he must compensate by an indignant assertion of himself.


9 posted on 06/03/2002 9:32:24 PM PDT by cornelis
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: cornelis
I find it extremely difficult to combine the two in our era. The abundance of musical styles and opinions make it hard to find the mean. Personally I compose music that is not avant-garde, but is harsh and complex. Hard to make popular. No need to.
10 posted on 06/03/2002 9:32:39 PM PDT by aristotleman
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Senator Pardek
He essayed discord etc.

Even Joe Montana listens to Bach

11 posted on 06/03/2002 9:38:22 PM PDT by cornelis
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: aristotleman
No need to

Well, there's always the stoic's ephemeral hope for immortality.

12 posted on 06/03/2002 9:39:29 PM PDT by cornelis
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: cornelis
LOL - have you ever heard Western Music that does not change keys played in tunings where 4ths and 5ths match? Like Butta.

There's a number of chamber groups out there that specialize in that.

13 posted on 06/03/2002 9:44:08 PM PDT by Senator Pardek
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: cornelis
Here's my mystery (was actually thinking about this tonight, before I read the article.)

Why does Asian music, well, SUCK?

I mean, here you have a grouping of sophisticated cultures, whose food, art, and philosophy have been beloved and sought after all over the world by other cultures.

But even ASIANS don't like Asian music...only thing that seems remotely tolerable are the Japanese guys with the big-assed drums. But that cymbally Chinese stuff is horrible, etc.

But many Asians have demonstrated tremendous music talent...in Western classical music, etc.

NOBODY outside of Asia seeks out and listens to Asian music though...but African music, Carribean music, Western Classical, American rock, etc....is sought after and enjoyed around the world.

What went terribly wrong? Is it like the English and food?

14 posted on 06/03/2002 10:28:31 PM PDT by John H K
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Savage Beast
There's nothing like the Lone Ranger Overture to get the adrenaline going!

Hi-yo Silver!

15 posted on 06/03/2002 11:04:30 PM PDT by Ken H
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: aristotleman
Cage was a charlatan who proved once again that some things are so stupid only intellectuals believe them. My belief is that Cage knew early on that he lacked any musical aptitude but like legions before wished to be famous. How then to gain fame? Why by concocting his "music" system and gaining the praise of all sorts of screwball avant-garde music critics who also wished to be famous. Cage, Schoenberg, and others like them are musical frauds and dead-ends like (c)rap "music".
16 posted on 06/04/2002 4:26:15 AM PDT by driftless
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: driftless
I can see why you would say that about Cage, I think similarly, often. He didn't think of himself as much of a musician though. He was experimenting with the boundaries of sound, music and perception and never claimed he was trying to create beauty or ugliness. All of that experimenting is gone now, few composers are still interested in "pushing the envelope". Now there are those who try to blend styles in order to be fashionable, there's the purists clinging to ideas that used to be creative, most are charlatans IMO.
17 posted on 06/04/2002 6:45:16 AM PDT by aristotleman
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: John H K
That's actually not true. My husband hired a Chinese professor to teach in his department last year and his wife has become a close friend. I sometimes accompany them as they explore the area. They LOVE Asian music and play it all the time in the car!
18 posted on 06/04/2002 6:53:43 AM PDT by twigs
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Ken H
:) William Tell sends his regards.
19 posted on 06/04/2002 7:02:18 AM PDT by xp38
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: cornelis
Many things of great quality are not understood, not just art. Some never are ("full many a flower" etc. etc.). Moby Dick was unappreciated for years. Much of Bach's greatest music was used for fish-wrap and lost forever. Van Gogh sold a room full of paintings for about 25 bucks.

I couldn't see what was so great about Huck Finn until I read Tom Abshur's very good book, Men and the Goddess, and he explained it to me. Huck immediately surpassed d'Artagnan as my favorite fictional character.

I read The Sound and the Fury four times, and I still didn't know what the hell was going on. When I read Falkner's explanation, I was more confused than ever. Then one night at a party at my sister's house, I met a woman, a friend of hers, who taught Falkner in college. I said to her, "You're not leaving here tonight until you tell me what that damn thing is about." For the next hour and a half we sat on the sofa, and she explained it in great detail and answered my questions. Then when I reread it, it was as clear as crystal. (But I was so depressed I wished I'd never found out.) (I am in love with Caddie Compson though. So was Falkner.)

I've got James Joyce's Ulysses in the book case next to me right now. Who knows? Maybe some day I'll tackle that.

It's a good thing The Renaissance didn't depend on me, isn't it?

It's comforting to know that one's coming and departure will be noted no more than the sea's self shall note a pebble into the waters cast. It's a lot more fun being a lazy slob than being responsible for--say--The Renaissance.

20 posted on 06/04/2002 7:07:14 AM PDT by Savage Beast
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: cornelis
"purposeful purposelessness,"

Would be a good name for Keith Richards.

21 posted on 06/04/2002 7:11:46 AM PDT by Eddeche
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: driftless
"some things are so stupid only intellectuals believe them"

That's very good, Drift. I hope you don't mind if I quote you.

I remember one college professor who was carried away by the sound of nuts and bolts jolted by a running motor. I think that was one of Cage's opera.

It also brings to mind the political opinions of so many "Liberal" academic "intellectuals".

22 posted on 06/04/2002 7:16:16 AM PDT by Savage Beast
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: twigs
Twigs, could you recommend some Asian music, maybe on CD's? I suspect that there must be some very good music that I just don't know about, especially Chinese, Japanese, and Indian.
23 posted on 06/04/2002 7:21:02 AM PDT by Savage Beast
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: xp38
I still like that old joke about titty rump titty rump. Ted Turner's father told that to me (et al.) many years ago one night at Tybee Island.
24 posted on 06/04/2002 7:26:32 AM PDT by Savage Beast
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: cornelis
In a related thread, German Church Hosts Cage Concert

Here's the start:

FRANKFURT, Germany (AP) - A performance of an organ piece by American composer John Cage that is meant to last 639 years began in an eastern German church with 16 months of silence.

The project honoring Cage's avant-garde work started at midnight Tuesday in Halberstadt and foresees taking the composer at his word by stretching Organ2/ASLSP - the letters stand for As Slow As Possible - over centuries.

25 posted on 06/04/2002 7:47:59 AM PDT by T. P. Pole
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: T. P. Pole
Call me when they get ready to play the next note.
26 posted on 06/04/2002 8:03:40 AM PDT by Savage Beast
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: cornelis
Of course, music is most influential when it is not entirely bad; it would hardly be popular in an absolute style for very long. Cage is not played on the radio.

Yes, and comic books are influential literature. However, I suppose most people left them ages past and their libraries contain great books not comic books.

It would take a stiff monetary incentive for me to sit through Cage. I'd rather listen to a mosquito in a dark room.

27 posted on 06/04/2002 8:08:05 AM PDT by AndrewC
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Savage Beast
"Then when I reread it, it was as clear as crystal."

Even after reading it twice I felt I only had an autistic glimpse of who the characters were.

I would be grateful if you could shed just a little light on this book for me.

28 posted on 06/04/2002 8:10:10 AM PDT by avg_freeper
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: Savage Beast
Good recording of 4'33" by "Music Minus All."
29 posted on 06/04/2002 8:13:21 AM PDT by Doctor Stochastic
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Savage Beast
I do not know any. I just know that this couple really likes it. They like a singer who died while relatively young (like in her 30's). They were not allowed to listen to her under earlier communist rule--she recorded from Hong Kong. The husband thinks the ultimate irony of her life was that she sang about love but could never find it herself. Sorry that I've been of no help. I will see them soon; I'll plan to ask them.
30 posted on 06/04/2002 8:13:27 AM PDT by twigs
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: cornelis
John Cage must have been into some serious drugs.
31 posted on 06/04/2002 8:20:15 AM PDT by SamAdams76
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: avg_freeper
Well...I'm just an average man with an average brain...and...it took this college teacher an hour and a half to explain it to me--and I had read it four times--and she's adept at teaching, and I'm...well...not the best, but...

It really is a wonderful and very rich book, and I love it (though I doubt that I would have liked Falkner if I had known him personally).

I guess one thing I like is Falkner's concepts of life, time, civilization, reality, et al. which are easier to grasp in Absalom! Absalom!. The entire book, I think, may be an expansion of the theme from MacBeth--whether life has any meaning or not. I think Falkner's answer is that life is deep and rich with meaning.

I love the way Benjy tells the whole story, even though he's an idiot and doesn't understand any of it, but it's all there. The meaning of everything is there before us all, though we may not have the capacity to understand it.

I love the way it jumps back and forth in time, like memory or dream, and raises questions about the difference, if there is any, between reality and illusion.

I love the way the form of his works is an inextricable part of the content. Maybe life's like that.

One of his prvailing ideas is that all of life, all of history, is paraded before everyone's eyes, whether we be in a small town in Mississippi or wherever, over and over again; it's all there for us to see. Falkner's concept may have influenced my own conviction that the cosmos is God's holy scripture and that Truth is there for all of us to read.

The plot of The Sound and the Fury, it seems to me, is subordinate to everything else Falkner has to say. The Compsons are decadent aristocracy. Quentin commits suicide. Caddie comes to a dismal end. Etc. I think the plot, such as it is, is a vehicle for everything else, and one might say that the stories--or plots--of our lives are similarly vehicles for everything else.

I hope I've done justice to this. Many people could answer the question a lot better than I can, Avg. Maybe someone here on FR will.

One of my most memorable experiences--ever--was a day in The National Museum in Athens. The guide had a B.S. in archeology and she had been conducting tours there for 20 years. The first thing she said was: "I'm not going to show you anything that is great. I'm going to show you what I like." She did. And she explained to me why she liked it! What she found in it. What it said to her and not to anyone else. Sometimes she explained why she didn't like something and why something was inferior, even though it might appeal to someone else. She absolutely blew my mind. I have never gotten over that experience. I wish I could thank her. --SB

32 posted on 06/04/2002 9:22:00 AM PDT by Savage Beast
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: twigs
Yes, ask them. Let us know. Thanks. --SB
33 posted on 06/04/2002 9:23:35 AM PDT by Savage Beast
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: Savage Beast
Call me when they get ready to play the next note.

Next note?

"The first three notes won't be played until Jan. 5, 2003. Until then, time will be marked by the sound of air rushing through the bellows."

Mark your calendars.

34 posted on 06/04/2002 9:30:31 AM PDT by T. P. Pole
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: T. P. Pole
"Mark your calendars."

Couldn't you just give me a ring?

35 posted on 06/04/2002 9:45:39 AM PDT by Savage Beast
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: cornelis
We can say that art, musical or pictoral, has two kinds of expression: the hieratic and the demotic.

That's logical. Can art be analyzed with art?

36 posted on 06/04/2002 9:55:35 AM PDT by RightWhale
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Savage Beast
Enjoyed reading your reply. And you are right, many things of great quality are not understood. And much literature, once understandable, has become obscure. There is no way that E.D. Hirsch (What Every 3rd Grader Ought to Know) will bring us up to speed on Pound's Cantos. One must first be responsible for the Rennaissance.

Still, life is short and often works of profound complexity yield no reward. It just isn't worthwhile studying Derrida or Foucault, not to speak of the mountains of secondary literature responding to it (perhaps Levinas is a worthwhile exception). Modern art has been at first deliberately private (even in the case of Faulkner, Joyce, and imitators) and then even more so by being deliberately intended not to be understood. This last is part of the tendency toward a dehumanization which concerned Ortega.

All good things come through hard work.

Thanks for you thoughts. There's probably more to be said.

37 posted on 06/04/2002 10:07:27 AM PDT by cornelis
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: RightWhale
Can art be analyzed with art?

Yes, unless I've misunderstood what you mean. Is meaning self-referential? No.

38 posted on 06/04/2002 10:21:11 AM PDT by cornelis
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: T. P. Pole
Thanks for the link.

Freeper Dakmar responds "These folks need to let about 100 pounds of air pressure out of their egos."

There is a good chapter on egotism in Richard Weaver's Ideas Have Consequences

In the absence of truth there is no necessity, and this observation may serve as an index to the position of the modern egotist. Having become incapable of knowing, he becomes incapable of working, in the sense that all work is a bringing of the ideal from potentiality into actuality. We perceive this simply when his egotism prevents realization that he is an obligated creature, bound to rational employment. The modern worker does not, save in rare instances, respond to the ideal in the task.

39 posted on 06/04/2002 10:40:36 AM PDT by cornelis
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: cornelis
Here are a few tautologies, just to show where this is coming from:
Art is not an articulate form of expression, does not convey meaning. Art works while it acts on the recipient, when it is not acting it is not art and may not exist at all. Meaning lies in the logical world, not the artistic world. Analysis is a tool of logical meaning; aesthetics is an aspect of emotional expression - art.
40 posted on 06/04/2002 10:51:22 AM PDT by RightWhale
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: RightWhale
Meaning lies in the logical world, not the artistic world

This view is what creates egotism in art. It is also where the term "abstract" comes into play. It is abstract from the order we all live in. Meaning may be a term that is used in other fields, but the less an art world relates to the world we live in, the less meaningful it becomes. It may be that the work of art has a high degree of self-referential complexity, but its significance is unnecessary. This also is part of the dehumanization of art.

41 posted on 06/04/2002 11:08:59 AM PDT by cornelis
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: cornelis
Sorry, typo: Renaissance, with one n.
42 posted on 06/04/2002 11:10:27 AM PDT by cornelis
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: cornelis
Probably, if I spent 10 years on Hamlet I'd manage to figure it out. But since I'd much rather do a thousand zillion other things, I want someone who has spent 10 years on it to explain it to me. Then I can get it in a reasonably rapid run-through.

It's true that some things are deliberately obsure, or private, or elitist, and they probably wouldn't interest you or me anyway, since this probably means an inferior mind created them.

But fine art probably can't be paraphrased. I don't think Falkner or Wagner or Van Gogh could have said it any other way. Wagner tried--and he failed miserably (his poetry, e.g.). What the Victory of Samothrace says cannot be described--or said in any other way.

It may not be true that hard work is required for all good things. I don't think it is. "The moon belongs to everyone! The best things in life" etc. And love can come to everyone.... You know what I mean.

Some fabulous things are easy. Thucydides for example. The ceiling of The Sistine Chapel. Leontyne Price singing Deep River (though I guess Leontyne and whoever composed Deep River worked pretty hard, huh? Michelangelo too? Thucydides?)(Maybe I'm wrong.)

And if I can con somebody into explaining to me what James Joyce is all about, or what to look for in Picasso or Mahler, I might be able to get it without much hard work.

The world is so full of wonderfulness! It's enough to make you dizzy. Just think of all the fun and all the wonderful people we meet and all we learn here at FR! And that doesn't take any hard work at all!

(I'm like lightening: I'll take the path of least resistance. I'm afraid the analogy ends there though.)

43 posted on 06/04/2002 11:22:04 AM PDT by Savage Beast
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: cornelis
the less an art world relates to the world we live in, the less meaningful it becomes

There are two worlds. One is the world we see and hear through our senses. The other is the legal world. Which is the real world?
Or, there are two worlds. One is the world of the inner, higher self. The other is the world of disconnected, random events around us. Which is the real world?
Or, there are two worlds. One is the world of thought, logic, and order, of attempted communication of meaning through language. The other is the world of feelings, emotions, reactions, communication through psychological responses. Which is the real world?

We could memorize baseball statistics and study cosmology and opera lyrics. Or we could play ball, go stargazing, and go see Les Mis. Which is art? Both?

44 posted on 06/04/2002 11:25:38 AM PDT by RightWhale
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

To: Savage Beast
Couldn't you just give me a ring?

I guess I could, but wouldn't a Cage ring last about 16 months?

45 posted on 06/04/2002 11:40:12 AM PDT by T. P. Pole
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: Savage Beast
Having read Faulkner's Sanctuary twice and portions of the work numerous times, I don't think I want it explained. From time to time a light bulb comes on in my brain and a revelation comes to me about some passage. This keeps the literary work alive for me. I think S & F has the same quality. I havn't yet given the attention to it that I plan to. Ulysses , forget it. I.m not ready for madness.
46 posted on 06/04/2002 11:57:18 AM PDT by oyez
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: Savage Beast
Some fabulous things are easy. Thucydides for example

LOL, translated into Ebonic?

But you're right again, not all things come through hard work, as long as we are agreed that this holds from the viewpoint of a passive observer. It seems that the sense perception is amazingly passive. Ancient arts of expression, especially what has remained because of its significance, was not devoted to them as today. The generalization that all things come through hard work can be quickly forgotten, especially with such spell-binding phrases from Mozart or Schubert.

47 posted on 06/04/2002 12:20:21 PM PDT by cornelis
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]

To: Savage Beast
Thanks for the praise, but I believe it's Orwell's.
48 posted on 06/04/2002 3:12:08 PM PDT by driftless
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: aristotleman
Well I did see a documentary about Cage once, and I remember him saying that one note has no more importance than another. I think he believed in the theory of the blank slate or tabula rasa . In other words he didn't seem to believe in the idea of any inherent hard-wired music system in humans. I believe otherwise.
49 posted on 06/04/2002 3:18:55 PM PDT by driftless
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: cornelis
Some people are musically highly gifted and can imagine sounds not played on instruments. Or sounds for which current instruments don't yet exist. Cage may have been a transition between traditional instruments and newly invented instruments. Now highly evolved soundscapes and interactive instruments are available to the musician. But don't mistake, they are highly dependent on mathematics and don't make a leap away from nature. (No abuse of reason!)

As music develops into areas of specialty and areas requiring training or great musical intelligence, it doesn't lose its musicality or art.

50 posted on 06/04/2002 8:42:18 PM PDT by Nebullis
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-52 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson