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The Jews took no one's land
WorldNetDaily ^ | joseph farah

Posted on 06/05/2002 2:14:21 PM PDT by lucy1

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Hope nobody posted this one before. A friend just forwarded it to me. I thought it was an interesting perspective.
1 posted on 06/05/2002 2:14:22 PM PDT by lucy1
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To: lucy1
The truth's a bitch, isn't it, Yassar?
2 posted on 06/05/2002 2:18:34 PM PDT by pabianice
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To: lucy1
The same argument can be made for the American Southwest. The Atzlan movement that wants to take it back for Mexico overlooks the fact that, at the time of the Mexican American War, there were fewer than 75,000 (Mexican) people living in California, New Mexico, Arizona, Texas, and parts of Colorado, Kansas, Oklahoma and Utah. Only after the Americans had made it a prosperous, productive area, despite a lack of water, did the Mexicans renew their interest in actually living there, as opposed to claiming it as territory.
3 posted on 06/05/2002 2:20:45 PM PDT by 3AngelaD
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To: lucy1
I've never seen this particular article, but I have read similar ones before. It is well worth reading again. The bottom line is this: There never was any such thing as a palestinian in the sense that this term is used today. "Palestine" was a term used to mean "the land of the bible", and anyone living in this region was a "palestinian", regardless of race, religion, or culture. THe Arabs hijacked this term to add credibility to their bogus claims.
4 posted on 06/05/2002 2:27:12 PM PDT by mamelukesabre
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To: lucy1
Its a great article...nothing like facts and the truth. Too bad the New York Times have given up on the concept. The Pravda of Liberalism has decided that such facts get in the way of creating another violent Anti-American State. And if a few million Jews have to bite the dust in the process who cares.

Its why facts as these are never reported and the Jewish American community has chosen to be liberals first and Jews second. Thats why one does not hear it from them.

Its pretty sad, that Israel has to relly on an Arab-American (Farah) and Conservative Christians for support.

I'm glad you posted it.

5 posted on 06/05/2002 2:29:00 PM PDT by dinok
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To: veronica; dennisw
Joseph Farah bump.
6 posted on 06/05/2002 2:33:08 PM PDT by Ancesthntr
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To: lucy1

7 posted on 06/05/2002 2:33:46 PM PDT by drq
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To: lucy1
Yeah, and the Stern Gang was the local version of "welcome wagon."

On April 9, 1948 the combined forces of the Stern Gang and the Irgun (military arm of the Revisionist party, commanded by Menachem Begin, later Prime Minister) carried out reprisals in the Arab village of Deir Yassin.

Twenty-three men were led off to a quarry and executed in cold blood, and between 90 and 230 others were shot down in the village.

Menachim Begin's statement afterwards:

"Accept my congratulations on this splendid act of conquest...."

"A SPLENDID ACT OF CONQUEST".

8 posted on 06/05/2002 2:33:55 PM PDT by Who is George Salt?
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To: 3AngelaD
Yep. Even though I'm not in favor of the atzlan movement, I still gotta admit I see some irony in the situation.

In the frontier days, there were many many english speaking white people multiplying like rabbits and spreading accross the continent. The indians were dissapearing almost as fast as the buffalo, and mexicans were scarce too. The mexican government saw that there was no way to avoid the tidal wave of white settlers, so they cooked up a plan to "mexicanize" the white people that moved into texas. They failed, and the "alamo" was the result of their scheming.

Now the reverse is happening. White people are scarce(relatively speaking) and a tidal wave of mexican immigrants is flooding in and multiplying like rabbits. The US government is basically giving up and talking about things like "amnesty" and such. I have a bad feeling that there will be a new "alamo" and this time the mexicans will win.
9 posted on 06/05/2002 2:36:12 PM PDT by mamelukesabre
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To: lucy1
No crawling into a millenium hole for Farah this time. Well met.
10 posted on 06/05/2002 2:37:06 PM PDT by onedoug
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To: veronica; College_Repub; Lent; dennisw
bump
11 posted on 06/05/2002 2:37:15 PM PDT by weikel
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To: dinok
Good article. Needs reading in order to refute the liars who blast Israel around here.
12 posted on 06/05/2002 2:38:20 PM PDT by justshutupandtakeit
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To: lucy1
When Mark Twain visited the Holy Land in the 19th century, he was greatly disappointed. He didn't see any people. He referred to it as a vast wasteland. The land we now know as Israel was practically deserted.

Farah is lying, and stupidly, because it's easy enough to see what Twain wrote:

The population of Jerusalem is composed of Moslems, Jews, Greeks, Latins, Armenians, Syrians, Copts, Abyssinians, Greek Catholics, and a handful of Protestants. One hundred of the latter sect are all that dwell now in this birthplace of Christianity. The nice shades of nationality comprised in the above list, and the languages spoken by them, are altogether too numerous to mention. It seems to me that all the races and colors and tongues of the earth must be represented among the fourteen thousand souls that dwell in Jerusalem.

From The Innocents Abroad, Chapter 53

And oh yes - Twain repeatedly refers to the country as "Palestine".

13 posted on 06/05/2002 2:43:12 PM PDT by Romulus
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To: mamelukesabre
...and this time the mexicans will win...

Er, I hate to break it to you, but the Mexicans won the battle at the Alamo.

14 posted on 06/05/2002 3:01:16 PM PDT by brbethke
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To: Romulus
the fourteen thousand souls that dwell in Jerusalem

Oops -- maybe you should have left out this part, as it destroys your argument (a land where the Big City[tm] has a population of 14,000 is rather empty, even by mid-19th century standards).

15 posted on 06/05/2002 3:02:18 PM PDT by steve-b
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To: Romulus
And oh yes - Twain repeatedly refers to the country as "Palestine".

That's because the Jews referred to themselves as Palestinians. Note that Twain referred to what you call "Palestinians" as Moslems. They called themselves either Moslems or Arabs until after 1948, when they decided that they were really Palestinians. Their new "Palestinian" name didn't really catch on until the 1960s.

Did you know that the Jerusalem Post (founded and operated by Jews) used to be named the Palestine Post? Note this historic page from the Palestine Post. Also, what is now the Israeli Philharmonic was originally the Palestine Philharmonic, and today's Israel Electric Company was originally the Palestine Electric Company. You could learn something by reading Joe Farah.

16 posted on 06/05/2002 3:05:47 PM PDT by DallasMike
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To: brbethke
haha

Boy did i screw that up!
I meant in the long run. THey won the alamo, but because of the alamo, they got thrashed really really good.

Maybe this'll teach me to stop doing 3 things at once on the computer, but I doubt it.
17 posted on 06/05/2002 3:08:45 PM PDT by mamelukesabre
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To: Romulus
Why didn't you post the complete paragraph?

The population of Jerusalem is composed of Moslems, Jews, Greeks, Latins, Armenians, Syrians, Copts, Abyssinians, Greek Catholics, and a handful of Protestants. One hundred of the latter sect are all that dwell now in this birthplace of Christianity. The nice shades of nationality comprised in the above list, and the languages spoken by them, are altogether too numerous to mention. It seems to me that all the races and colors and tongues of the earth must be represented among the fourteen thousand souls that dwell in Jerusalem. Rags, wretchedness, poverty and dirt, those signs and symbols that indicate the presence of Moslem rule more surely than the crescent-flag itself, abound. Lepers, cripples, the blind, and the idiotic, assail you on every hand, and they know but one word of but one language apparently -- the eternal "bucksheesh." To see the numbers of maimed, malformed and diseased humanity that throng the holy places and obstruct the gates, one might suppose that the ancient days had come again, and that the angel of the Lord was expected to descend at any moment to stir the waters of Bethesda. Jerusalem is mournful, and dreary, and lifeless. I would not desire to live here.

Mark Twain, Innocents Abroad, Chapter 53

18 posted on 06/05/2002 3:09:56 PM PDT by KayEyeDoubleDee
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To: KayEyeDoubleDee
Mark Twain said what Farah claimed he said. Twain talked about Palestine sitting in "sackcloth and ashes" and as being undeveloped.
19 posted on 06/05/2002 3:11:40 PM PDT by UbIwerks
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To: lucy1
Thanks for a nice post -- to you and Mr. Farah!
20 posted on 06/05/2002 3:12:00 PM PDT by bvw
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To: lucy1
What a load of leftist BS
21 posted on 06/05/2002 3:38:58 PM PDT by quietolong
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Comment #22 Removed by Moderator

To: 3AngelaD
The Atzlan movement that wants to take it back for Mexico overlooks the fact that, at the time of the Mexican American War, there were fewer than 75,000 (Mexican) people living in California, New Mexico, Arizona, Texas, and parts of Colorado, Kansas, Oklahoma and Utah. Only after the Americans had made it a prosperous, productive area, despite a lack of water, did the Mexicans renew their interest in actually living there, as opposed to claiming it as territory.

Make that more like 10,000.  Maybe we should claim the moon since some Americans once walked on it.

 



23 posted on 06/05/2002 3:47:19 PM PDT by remaininlight
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To: Romulus
So WHO was the ruler of Palestine during the 1800's? I think the point is that Palestine is the name of an area, not a country. It was relatively insignficant to the Moslems. The only reason it is interesting to them now is that the Jews are there.
24 posted on 06/05/2002 3:48:37 PM PDT by the_Watchman
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To: Dark Watch
Perhaps you could illuminate the rest of us on the reasons for this attack?

I realize that it is a frequently used tactic to mention a retaliatory response without the initiating action. That was done by the network news during the Democratic convention at Chicago. The news showed a policeman knocking a man down with his billy club. They neglected to show the preceding 20 seconds where that man had slammed that policman from behind with a wooden barricade thus knocking the policeman to the ground.

Since you stated that there was an initial action which provoked that response, please fill us in!

Thank you! :)

25 posted on 06/05/2002 3:57:45 PM PDT by the_Watchman
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To: lucy1
The Jews took no one's land

The Jews took no one's land, which was inhabited by no one when they arrived; the Jews fought a war against no one to establish the State of Israel; the Israelis committed acts of terror and ethnic cleansing against no one to get no one to leave Israel; the Israelis later fought several wars against no one, conquering the West Bank and Gaza strip which was inhabited by no one, and spent the last 35 years militarily occupying no one and imposing martial law and repression against no one; in the mean time, no one fought back by staging cross border guerrilla raids, skyjackings, and in one famous incident, no one kidnapped and eventually killed the Israeli athletes at the 1972 Munich Olympics. Later, no one staged uprisings (the Intifada) against the occupying Israeli troops, and eventually, no one signed some agreements with Israel at Oslo, under which Israel would work towards giving no one an indepedent state in the occupied terrotories in the West Bank and Gaza strip. Israel continued to build settlements in these occupied territories and continued to chop down no one's olive orchards, continued to disposses no one of their lands, houses, and farms, and continued to cut no one off from their water supplies, and to divide no one's land up into divided "apartheid bantustans" or "indian reservations" surrounded by Israeli military checkpoints. In response, no one started to use suicide bombers to kill Israelis. Later, after 911 and various other events gave them the green light, Israel invaded, temporarily occuppied, and continues to surround several refugee camps where no one lived (after no one was expelled from Israel proper in 1948), in the name of "fighting terrorism" committed by no one.

26 posted on 06/05/2002 4:18:23 PM PDT by Vast Buffalo Wing Conspiracy
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To: Dark Watch
Menachim Begin's statement afterwards:

"Accept my congratulations on this splendid act of conquest...."

"A SPLENDID ACT OF CONQUEST".

Feel free to thrash about and hurl all the insults you want - it lets everyone see your true character.

27 posted on 06/05/2002 4:20:51 PM PDT by Who is George Salt?
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To: the_Watchman
"Perhaps you could illuminate the rest of us on the reasons for this attack?"

Attack?  What attack?  A provocation perhaps....to entice the writer to read more than one source of information before putting words to paper....or screen.

Few seem to want to research the total history of what went on in the Mideast in the 19th and 20th centuries.  I invite you to do a little research and find out the true root of the problems today.  I'm sure you will not find it without deep research.  The problem is no one wants to research prior to the 1920's.  Who came in and "took" land and who bought it?  Who bought land and and developed it and who took it when the West Bank was annexed by Jordan?  Who inspired the first attacks?  

"Since you stated that there was an initial action which provoked that response, please fill us in!"

There was no "initial action".  There were numerous "actions" that drove the Jews to use extreme measures.  The majority of these actions can be labeled as retribution.  There was no help from the occupying forces.  Yes, the Stern Gang, during British occupation, were labeled as terrorists,  Just who is a terrorist in a land occupied by a foreign government?  What steps would you take when thieves and murders constantly attacked you? 

 

 

28 posted on 06/05/2002 4:22:15 PM PDT by Dark Watch
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To: Who is George Salt?
"A SPLENDID ACT OF CONQUEST".

Your documented source for this quotation is...?

29 posted on 06/05/2002 4:25:54 PM PDT by Alouette
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To: Who is George Salt?
"Feel free to thrash about and hurl all the insults you want - it lets everyone see your true character."

Insults?  Nay....not so!  I am pointing out you may have fallen into the mindless trap of accepting only one side of a complex story. 

My character is not at test here.  The test here is your knowledge of history..

30 posted on 06/05/2002 4:27:59 PM PDT by Dark Watch
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To: lucy1
...and Al Gore invented the internet
31 posted on 06/05/2002 4:34:28 PM PDT by jo6pac
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To: Vast Buffalo Wing Conspiracy
Part of the Israeli strategy is to dehumanize the Pals in the eyes of the world at every turn....savages, animals, blood thirsty killers all we're supposed to believe.

Some of us are not anti-Arab biggots - we can think for ourselves and come to our own studied conclusions.. its time for the occupation to end...or end all welfare handouts to Israel.

32 posted on 06/05/2002 4:41:17 PM PDT by wewereright
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To: Dark Watch
---"Perhaps you could illuminate the rest of us on the reasons for this attack?"

Attack? What attack? A provocation perhaps....to entice the writer to read more than one source of information before putting words to paper....or screen. ---

------------------------------------------

Perhaps I should have been more plain. By "attack" I meant the reasons for the attack by the Jews on this settlement. I certainly was not accusing YOU of attacking!

Most of us do not have time to research history. If you have done so, then tell us what you have found and please cite your sources.

The most effective way to use this forum is to share information! Most do not have the time to search out original sources. At least give us a clue for good web sites for an historical perspective.

33 posted on 06/05/2002 4:41:24 PM PDT by the_Watchman
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To: the_Watchman
It was relatively insignficant to the Moslems. The only reason it is interesting to them now is that the Jews are there.

That's pretty weak justification, if you ask me. If I own a couple of acres, and a corner of it is rather desolate and unused, does someone have the right to move in and build a house on it just because I'm not using it at the moment? After all, it's still my land, right?

34 posted on 06/05/2002 4:41:51 PM PDT by bob808
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To: Vast Buffalo Wing Conspiracy
Whew! Easy for you to say.

It takes two to tango, you know.

35 posted on 06/05/2002 4:44:19 PM PDT by lucy1
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To: wewereright
It's time for the occupation to end . . .

And when will it be time for the suicide bombings to end???

36 posted on 06/05/2002 4:45:05 PM PDT by the_Watchman
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To: drq
Thanks!
37 posted on 06/05/2002 4:46:44 PM PDT by lucy1
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To: dinok
Thanks!
38 posted on 06/05/2002 4:47:24 PM PDT by lucy1
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To: bob808
From an historical viewpoint, the Jews could just as easily say the same thing. They inhabited it during the beginnings of recorded history.

Show us any literature or culture from inhabitants prior to the Jews 400 B.C.

39 posted on 06/05/2002 4:48:35 PM PDT by the_Watchman
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To: remaininlight
"Make that more like 10,000. Maybe we should claim the moon since some Americans once walked on it."

I think America should claim it. We were there first and no one has been there since.

40 posted on 06/05/2002 4:53:48 PM PDT by StormEye
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To: lucy1
To NEARLY everyone:

Thanks those those who made the positive comments -regardless if you agree with the author or not

It seems that some folks can't take an opposing opinion without getting all riled up and making personal attacks, etc.

Neither side is 100% innocent. On the other hand, what Arab country can we really trust -honestly? NO matter what we do to help them, we always get the knife stuck in our backs by them. Sure, there are good and bad among all races. But for some reason, most Muslim nations have those crappy, unpredictable governments.

41 posted on 06/05/2002 4:54:05 PM PDT by lucy1
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To: the_Watchman
"The most effective way to use this forum is to share information! Most do not have the time to search out original sources. At least give us a clue for good web sites for an historical perspective."

Sadly, there are no web sites I have found that give a total true view of what went on.  You've either got the Arab side or the Israeli side.  I started getting my  information over 20 years ago when I was doing some traveling for the government.  I always liked to research a country before I went there and had both classified and unclassified sources.  Surprisingly, much of the "unbiased" information came from open sources.  After putting together the information you can debunk or confirm what you have on site.   

Don't depend on the internet for factual information.  Use all sources available.  It takes time, I know.  I no longer have the luxury of the kind of research I used to do but I've "been there and done that".

42 posted on 06/05/2002 4:55:58 PM PDT by Dark Watch
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To: the_Watchman
Well I certainly do not claim to be an expert historian in the area. However, I believe that "Palestine" was part of the Ottoman Empire throughout the greater part of the last 2 milenium.

Now, if your argument is "we're reclaiming ancient lands wrongfully taken from us by the Ottomans (or whomever)", that's fine and the line of reasoning has its strengths and weaknesses; however, that is very different from saying "hey, nobody was really using it so it's ours".

43 posted on 06/05/2002 4:59:17 PM PDT by bob808
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To: bob808
BUMP
44 posted on 06/05/2002 5:07:52 PM PDT by Publius6961
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To: the_Watchman
Come on ..... its not hard to understand the dynamic that bring on the bombings.... I would like to see some of the hardcore from the I's amen corner subjected to the continual humiliation that is the life of Pals...they would be the first to crack.

Abandon the illegal settlements, build a real wall - seperate the countries just like the United Nations envisioned 50 years ago...peace will come then.

45 posted on 06/05/2002 5:10:28 PM PDT by wewereright
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To: bob808
First, it's not MY argument. I am not a Jew.

Second, the point is that Palestine is an AREA, not a country. Even during the Ottoman empire it was occupied by Jews, Moslems, and Christians. There was no Palestinian state, hence no one purports to name an historical Palestinian ruler [at least post Herod, who was a Jew!].

Therefore, the argument is not that the land was not in use, but that the claim to a "Palestinian homeland" by Arafat is itself weak.

Furthermore, one should put it in the context of what occurs in any area where the Moslems gain pre-eminence: for instance Egypt, where Coptic Christians are second class citizens or the Sudan where Christians are enslaved. The Jews have a definite stake in maintaining the rule of a Jewish state.

46 posted on 06/05/2002 5:19:53 PM PDT by the_Watchman
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To: wewereright
the continual humiliation that is the life of Pals

Are you referring to how no Arab nation has allowed these people to be assimilated, but instead forced them into refugee camps so that they could be used a symbol and a political force against Israel?

47 posted on 06/05/2002 5:23:01 PM PDT by the_Watchman
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To: the_Watchman
I agree, living in a muslim dominated country is not an appealing proposition (in fact, I would also say it was a big mistake that we fell for a lot of false and/or exagerated atrocity stories and backed the muslims in Bosnia and Kosovo). I would also agree that the arabs inhabiting Palestine prior to 1948 were for the most part a backward, unorganized group that did not have all the institutions of a modern state or maybe not even an understanding of what a modern nation is.

But the title of the article is "The Jews took no one's land". Well, that's just plain untrue. Now, you can argue that it was RIGHTFULLY taken, but obviously Palestine did not just drop out of the sky in 1948 for the Jews to move in. No matter how unorganized and sparsely inhabited it may or may not have been, the arabs there considered it theirs, and it was taken from them at the point of a gun.

48 posted on 06/05/2002 5:37:34 PM PDT by bob808
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To: the_Watchman
how can I dignify that with a response?
49 posted on 06/05/2002 5:41:05 PM PDT by wewereright
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To: lucy1
Joseph Farah BUMP!
50 posted on 06/05/2002 5:42:47 PM PDT by CARepubGal
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