Face to Face With a Terrorist - Worker Recalls Atta Seeking Funds Before 9/11 (Cropduster!)

June 6 — For more than an hour, a government loan officer was face to face with the man she now knows was the ringleader of the Sept. 11 hijackers, and he asked her for a $650,000 federal loan that apparently would have financed an attack on the United States with a modified crop-duster, the officer told ABCNEWS.

In an interview with Brian Ross, Johnelle Bryant, a loan officer in Florida for the U.S. Department of Agriculture, recalled how Mohamed Atta sat across from her with his "very scary" black eyes, and then railed against her when the loan was denied, asking her how she would like to see the destruction of Washington, D.C., and monuments there, which he observed in a picture on her wall.

"His eyes, he had very scary-looking eyes. His eyes were black," she remembered. "How could somebody be that evil, be that close to me, and I didn't recognize it?"

Only after seeing Atta's picture in the newspaper did she realize who the man sitting inches away from her was, and alert the FBI of the interaction.

"I think it's very vital that the Americans realize that when these people come to the United States, they don't have a big 'T' on their forehead," she said, telling her story for the first time to ABCNEWS, against the wishes of her employer.

"They don't look like what you think a terrorist would look like," said Bryant, who also had visits from three other figures in the Sept. 11 plots, including one who used his real name.

"I had terrorists in my office, and I helped them," Bryant said. "I gave them information unknowingly … And I'm afraid that there probably will be a next time, unless it's stopped from the ground-floor level by an American."

According to Bryant, who has worked at the USDA for 16 years, Atta arrived in her office sometime between the end of April and the middle of May 2000, inquiring about a loan to finance an aircraft.

"At first, he refused to speak with me," said Bryant, remembering that Atta called her "but a female." Bryant explained that she was the manager, but he still refused to conduct business with her. Ultimately, she says, "I told him that if he was interested in getting a farm-service agency loan in my servicing area, then he would need to deal with me."

Throughout the interview, he continued to refer to Bryant as "but a female," and Bryant says "he would say it with disgust."

During the initial applicant interview, Bryant was taking notes. "I wrote his name down, and I spelled it A-T-T-A-H, and he told me, 'No, A-T-T-A, as in "Atta boy!' "

He said he had just arrived in the United States from Afghanistan "to start his dream, which was to go flight school and get his pilot's license, and work both as a charter pilot and a crop duster, too." He said he was seeking $650,000 to start a crop-dusting business.

"He wanted to finance a twin-engine six-passenger aircraft … and remove the seats," said Bryant. "He said he was an engineer, and he wanted to build a chemical tank that would fit inside the aircraft and take up every available square inch of the aircraft except for where the pilot would be sitting."

When Bryant explained that there was an application process, Atta became "very agitated." He thought the loan would be in cash, and that he would have no trouble obtaining it to purchase an aircraft.

He also remarked about the lack of security in the building, pointing specifically to a safe behind Bryant's desk. "He asked me what would prevent him from going behind my desk and cutting my throat and making off with the millions of dollars in that safe," said Bryant, who explained that there was no money in the safe because loans are never given in cash, and also that she was trained in karate.

"He wanted to know how, once he became settled down in the United States, how he could take that kind of training," she says.

Bryant turned him down for the loan because as a non-U.S. citizen he did not meet the basic eligibility requirements and because the program is intended for actual farming purposes. But she referred him to other government agencies and to a bank downstairs.

He asked questions about whether his plans to be out of the country for a few weeks would interfere with his eligibility for a loan. "I think he said he needed to go to Madrid, and somewhere in Germany, and then there was a third country," said Bryant. (--Czech?)

Being turned down for the loan altered the hijackers' plans. According to law enforcement officials, packing twin-engine planes with explosive chemicals, making it a flying bomb, had been the terrorists' plan since the mid-1990s. When Atta reported to his group that he could not get a loan to buy smaller planes, the plan was switched to hijacking passenger jets, according to Abu Zabaydah, a captured bin Laden lieutenant.

So in the fall of 2000, the hijackers who had been learning to fly small planes began to seek simulator training in the large jets they would crash into the World Trade Center, the Pentagon and a field in Pennsylvania.

Before leaving Bryant's office, Atta became fixated with an aerial photo of Washington that was hanging on her office wall.

"He just said that it was one of the prettiest, the best he'd ever seen of Washington," she said, remembering that he was impressed with the panoramic view that captured all the monuments and buildings in one photograph, pointing specifically to the Pentagon and the White House.

"He pulled out a wad of cash," she said, "and started throwing money on my desk. He wanted that picture really bad."

Bryant indicated that the picture was not for sale, and he threw more money down.

"His look on his face became very bitter at that point," Bryant remembers. "I believe he said, 'How would America like it if another country destroyed that city and some of the monuments in it' like the cities in his country had been destroyed?"

Atta also expressed an interest in visiting New York, specifically the World Trade Center, and asked Bryant about security there. He inquired about other American cities, including Phoenix, Los Angeles, Seattle and Chicago. Prompted by a souvenir she had on her desk, he also expressed interest in the Dallas Cowboys' football stadium, mentioning that the team was "America's team" and the stadium had a "whole in the roof."

Atta also talked about life in his country. "He mentioned al Qaeda, he mentioned Osama bin Laden," said Bryant. "I didn't know who Osama bin Laden was … He could have been a character on Star Wars for all I knew."

He boasted about the role that they would one day play. "He said this man would someday be known as the world's greatest leader," she said.

Bryant and Atta shook hands on his way out. "I told him I wished him luck with his endeavor," remembered Bryant.

Bryant never thought to report her strange encounter, because she thought she was just helping a new immigrant learn about the country.

"I felt that he was trying to make the cultural leap from the country that he came from, with all the violence, as compared to the United States," she says. "I was attempting, in every manner I could, to help him make his relocation into our country as easy for him as I could make it."

His questions about American cities, she assumed, were because he had moved to a new country and he wanted to find out about the major cities.

"How could I have known? I couldn't have known, prior to Sept. 11. I don't think anyone else would have either, if they'd been in my shoes that day," she says. "Should I have picked up the telephone and called someone? You can't ask me that more often than I have asked myself that … I don't know how I could possibly expect myself to have recognized what that man was. And yet sometimes I haven't forgiven myself."

"The American people, the public, need to be aware that if these men can walk into my office, they can walk into your office, they can walk into anyone's office," she says. "If they watch this interview and they see the type of questions that Atta asked me on my first encounter with that man, and then someone walks into another American's office and behaves in the same manner, then perhaps they will recognize a terrorist, and perhaps they will pick up the phone and make the call that I didn't make."

One of the things I noticed in the responses to this article, actually SEVERAL of the things I noticed, were the names of folks I have found to be supportive of the idea that Saddam Hussein carried out the anthrax attacks, or, alternatively, that the anthrax attacks were done by a middle-aged white male American scientist with a grudge against the government.

Some of you really jump on that "grudge against the government" and show us why you think it is so important - namely your own "grudge against the government" and its employees.

Makes me want to ask if you wait until the letter carrier is coming down the street before you let your doberman out for his morning run. You know who you are, so no need to respond to that.

Let's pass on beyond the slasher statements and get into the real importance of this particular article.

The loan evaluator's statement seems to have spurred an investigative thread that led the Fibbies to the conclusion that the Terrorists really were interested in crop sprayers as a possible weapon - maybe pumping out hundreds of gallons of anthrax on an unsuspecting city.

No doubt the Fibbies went looking for all that anthrax the Terrorists would have stored, but they didn't find it. Instead, they went looking for "other" and smaller anthrax stashes that might be vectored by a finding in any one of thousands of mailboxes in Central New Jersey. They didn't find it there either.

The Fibbies were then left with only two investigative threads. One was to find evidence that blamed Saddam Hussein. The other was to find someone that had nothing to do with the Middle-East. Interviews with Saddam are much more difficult than inventing the middle-aged white male, eh?!

It's quite obvious why the Fibbies told this lady to be quiet. It's equally obvious why they now let her speak. Just three days ago the Czechs were able to authenticate a meeting between Mr. Atta and Iraqi agents. What they were up to is a good question, but it is now the case that implicating the Terrorists in the anthrax attack also implicates Saddam Hussein. Of course, if Mr. Atta was going to spray this stuff from a crop duster, he still would have had to have had access to a large scale anthrax producer. Iraq is undoubtedly one such choice. But, was it the real choice?

Try this idea out. The Iraqis gave Atta a small quantity of anthrax to test on a victim of his choice. Unfortunately for him, he didn't get his USDA guaranteed loan for a crop duster, so he didn't test it and he didn't put in a larger order for a mass quantity of anthrax to be delivered at a future date. In the end he used the anthrax anyway.

Alternatively, Atta did get a large shipment of anthrax and it's still in storage somewhere in Florida. We will find it someday.

There are a number of other ways to look at this, but finding Mr. Atta involved in the anthrax attack does not absolve Iraq of responsibility in the matter. A rational analysis of the situation ties Iraq even that much closer to the problem.

Just three days ago the Czechs were able to authenticate a meeting between Mr. Atta and Iraqi agents. What they were up to is a good question, but it is now the case that implicating the Terrorists in the anthrax attack also implicates Saddam Hussein. Of course, if Mr. Atta was going to spray this stuff from a crop duster

There are three different pieces of evidence here, and it's not clear how they are linked:

Atta met with Iraq agent al-Ani in Prague. Al-Ani may have given Atta a vacuum bottle.
Atta was interested in cropdusters.
Atta is connected to the anthrax mailings.

We do not know that it was anthrax he was thinking of using the cropdusters for. It could have been for some other biological or chemical attack. We really don't know.

The meeting in Prague connects Iraq with 9/11, but it's not clear that it connects Iraq with the anthrax mailings. The vacuum bottle is suggestive, but it's not definitive (and I'm not even sure that the story of the bottle is accurate, since it has not been widely reported).

It is possible that Atta received the anthrax from the Iraqi agent in Prague, was thinking of delivering it via cropdusters, but ultimately arranged to have it mailed instead. But that's only one scenario. Other scenarios are also consistent with the limited evidence we have.

From the article: "His look on his face became very bitter at that point," Bryant remembers. "I believe he said, 'How would America like it if another country destroyed that city and some of the monuments in it' like the cities in his country had been destroyed?"

Your comment: Huh? What did he mean by this? Wasn't Atta Egyptian? Does this mean he considered Palestine part of his "country"? Or might it mean that Atta was really Palestinian?

I too find this a curious comment. It's well-documented that Atta was Egyptian (unless, of course, there's a stolen identity involved here in some way, which seems doubtful, given the many photographs, etc.). Could he have been talking about Afghanistan, or Iraq? But none of these really make much sense.

Perhaps what he meant is that the U.S. has, from his perspective, "destroyed" the cities in Egypt via the introduction of Western culture, by supporting a pro-Western government, by not allowing the implementation of an Islamic state. To him, that would represent far greater "destruction" than physical bombs.

Keep the "scale of things" in mind. In a meeting with an "agent" Atta probably didn't walk away with a large amount of anthrax.

On the other hand, when thinking of a crop duster, he would ultimately need a large amount.

So, have him getting a sample "to test on a victim of his choice" initially, with delivery of a large amount later later.

Sounds just like a wholesale honey trade in fact! (Osama Bin Laden was the world's largest honey broker - keep that in mind - this whole crowd knew how to trade.)

In the end, when he couldn't buy a plane and had to hijack airliners, that sample of anthrax he received prior to purchase of the bulk quantities, got used anyway!

Now, let me put a twist on this that I just thought of while considering the fact these guys are traders. Imagine that Mr. Atta got a sample of anthrax to test from the Iraqi agents. However, this was not actually Iraqi anthrax - rather it had been taken from an American laboratory. The Iraqis imagined that it was really good stuff, and in light of their own miserable results using their own stuff, they didn't want to miss a chance on making the sale.

In short, Saddam Hussein's anthrax merchants may have carried out a "bait and switch" transaction on Osama Bin Laden's anthrax purchasers.

That's been the history of the relationship between the city Arabs and the desert Arabs for thousands of years! These guys cheat. They are also gullible. Hence the need for mordita.

In Washington DC no building may be taller than the US Capitol.

That is the current law, but the Old Post Office Building is taller than the U.S. Capitol (315 ft. vs. 288 ft.). It was built in 1899, 36 after the completion of the Capitol building. See this link.

In 1899, Congress passed the Heights of Building Act, saying that no building in Washington could be taller than the Capitor or other significant government buildings. A 1910 law further limits building heights to 20 feet more than the width of the street that the building fronts on. The situation with regard to architectural embellishments and the like is more complicated and somewhat controversial. See this Washington Post article.

Not that this has anything to do with Mohamed Atta, but I found this interesting and I didn't know it before I looked it up.

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