Troops for border sought

Washington Times ^ | 6/19/02 | Dave Boyer

[kattracks]

Conservative lawmakers called on President Bush to deploy thousands of troops along U.S. borders, saying the homeland security plan that the White House delivered yesterday to Congress would take years to crack down on illegal immigration.

"Our nation's border security is our homeland's Achilles' heel," said Rep. Jim Ramstad, Minnesota Republican. "This situation must be corrected immediately if we're serious about preventing terrorism."

[Texasforever]

I hope the nation is ready for martial law because that is the ONLY way the military is authorized to assume civil police powers in this country.

[sarcasm]

Did Bush impose martial law when he deployed the National Guard on the borders?

[Texasforever]

Did Bush impose martial law when he deployed the National Guard on the borders?

He violated the constitution.

[PRND21]

"I want an explanation of these 'cultural and historical' reasons why we can't protect our nation's borders," said Rep. Tom Tancredo

The logical and reality based reasons were not sufficient apparently.
How many troops?
Were do we get the manpower?
Who pays?
What restrictions will Americans be forced to adhere to?

[sarcasm]

Are you calling for his impeachment?

[Texasforever]

Are you calling for his impeachment?

No, are you in favor of martial law?

[america-rules]

"I hope the nation is ready for martial law because that is the ONLY way the military is authorized to assume civil police powers in this country. "

yea, but most of the talking experts don't know this?

We could pull the troops from europe I think but congress would have to do some law changin first !

[Texasforever]

The 450 national guard troops were placed under control of the INS. That put them out of command and control of the DOD. That is constitutionally sound.

[sarcasm]

Shouldn't a President who willfully violates the Constitution be impeached?

[america-rules]

How many troops?
At least 100,000 !

Were do we get the manpower?
Pull them from europe !

Who pays?
We pay !

What restrictions will Americans be forced to adhere to?

The left would be in a fenzy but saying the troops are getting desert training might work to shut them up?

[Texasforever]

Yep. The first would be a repeal of the posse comitatus act. THEN watch the militia groups howl.

[Captainpaintball]

I know I've said this many, many times on FR, but I think more people need to hear it:

Line the entire border with nuclear waste!

[sarcasm]

Perhaps you missed this:

In a petition to the president, Mr. Tancredo's group said the post-Civil War Posse Comitatus Act and later congressional provisions allowed the president to deploy the military to help enforce state and federal laws

[Texasforever]

Shouldn't a President who willfully violates the Constitution be impeached?

Shouldn’t posters that deliberately lie be banned? I actually went and did my research. The 450 NG troops were NOT under DOD control They were assigned to the INS. Nice try.

[Hostage]

The illegal invasion is planned and orchestrated from abroad. I've had an in-your-face encounter on more than one occasion with supporters of the invasion telling me it's too late for us. I wish there was someway the Bush administration could communicate that they know what's up and that they have a plan. It would set a great many minds at ease.

[Texasforever]

In a petition to the president, Mr. Tancredo's group said the post-Civil War Posse Comitatus Act and later congressional provisions allowed the president to deploy the military to help enforce state and federal laws

Then I WOULD BE VERY INTERESTED IN THAT DOCUMENTATION. This idiot Tancredo is just NOT credo. I assume then that you supported Delta force involvement at Waco?

[lavaroise]

Martial law for illigal immigrants, what is wrong with that? It is a perfect matter of border and Federal/Military jurisdiction.

[Texasforever]

Martial law for illigal immigrants, what is wrong with that? It is a perfect matter of border and Federal/Military jurisdiction.

Sorry but you don't understand a dammed thing about martial law.

[sarcasm]

So, by your logic, circumvention of a Constitutional prohibition is acceptable as long as your guy does it. How Clintonian.

[Redcloak]

How did he violate it? Is he not Commander in chief "of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States"? Part of the militia is, per Federal law, the National Guard.

Beyond that, I've noticed that no one is even considering a resource that would cost very little: The unorganized militia. They have been operating on the border in recent years, though with opposition from the Federal government. Perhaps it's time to stop discouraging Americans from patrolling the border and let interested volunteers do the work of securing the homeland.

[VinnyTex]

Get a grip. Somewhere in the constitution it says one of the few things the Federal government is supposed to do is protect our borders. Well our borders are being violated daily and I don't see the Federal government doing anything about it. Put the fugging troops on the border before some idiots walks across with a small nuke.

[sarcasm]

You might take a look at a map sometime - Waco is not on the border.

[brat]

. "I want an explanation of these 'cultural and historical' reasons why we can't protect our nation's borders,"

I'd like one too, George. And surely you know about the 422 incursions across our border by the Mexican military?

[Texasforever]

There is NO militia unless congress activates it. No matter what Bo Gritz says.

[Texasforever]

Get a grip

Really? I am the one with the grip....on reality. You may want to try it.

[Washington_minuteman]

"Homeland Security Director Tom Ridge called approval of the department "the next critical step" in the war against terrorism."

Put this guy and his bureaucrats on the border.

[sarcasm]

That's what I meant by circumvention - you might also purchase a dictionary.

[Texasforever]

That's what I meant by circumvention - you might also purchase a dictionary.

NO genius that is following constitutional requirements.

[Texasforever]

You might take a look at a map sometime - Waco is not on the border.

A distinction without distinction.

[sarcasm]

Your argument would have been much appreciated by the Clintons.

[sarcasm]

BTW, where does the Constitution prohibit placement of the military on the borders. Hint: it's not there.

[carpio]

I live in Las Cruces, New Mexico about forty miles from the Mexican border. I am ready for martial law if it will close our borders to illegals.

[Ajnin]

I think having troops on the border is a bad idea. The Border Patrol and INS have the manpower and resources to shut down the border but lack the fortitude to actually enforce immigration laws. Putting the military on the border is only going to increase the number of people watching illegal aliens cross the border illegally.

[Texasforever]

Your argument would have been much appreciated by the Clintons.

I see I have beaten you. Damn I wish there were at least a few worthy opponents around here.

[lavaroise]

I do know about the jurisdiction of borders. They fall with the military and martial law does apply at the border or in places like Guantanamo Bay.

[sarcasm]

I didn't say your argument was correct. It is specious just like many advanced by the Clinton administration.

[VinnyTex]

We sent troops to border to fight Pancho Villa. Again in World War one and two. Eisenhower sent troops to border during operation Wetback in 1954. So this nonense some fool is spouting off is just that, nonsense. The Constitution clearly states that the Federal government is supposed to protect our borders. We are in a war now. Send the troops to border.

[Texasforever]

So, you are ready for dusk to dawn curfews? Are you ready for every one including you to come under Military justice?. Are you ready for military checkpoints with identification required at every stop?. Are you ready for this FOREVER? Troops on the border are ONLY effective as long as they are there. How long is long enough to stop illegal immigration? How long is it before troops are used to search house to house, including yours, for those that are already here?

[Terridan]

THERE ARE MANY FORMS OF MARTIAL LAW.... AND AS FAR AS THE BORDERS ARE CONCERNED... THE ONLY PEOPLE TRUELY AFFECTED WILL BE THE ILLEGAL ALIENS!!! EVERY TIME THERE IS A HURRICANE WITH MASSIVE DAMAGE, MARTIAL LAW IS INVOKED... DO YA KNOW WHY??? CUZ %^$#HOLES RUN AROUND AND STEAL FROM THE MISFORTUNATE WHO'S HOMES HAVE BEEN DEMOLISHED... ALSO TO PREVENT "SCAVENGER SCUM" FROM SELLING FRESH WATER AT $5.00 A GALLON. I WAS GREATFUL FOR IT, AND HAD NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT. ARM THE BORDERS! (AND ANY CITY WITH A GANG PROBLEM!!)

[Texasforever]

Then the ONLY answer is to declare war on Mexico and Canada, THEN troops on the border are within constitutional bounds.

[sarcasm]

I'm still waiting for you to cite the section of the Constitution which prohibits stationing of troops on the border.

[Texasforever]

NO THERE IS NOT. I have a caps lock too and I am not afraid to use it.

[healey22]

Tancredo's Homeland Defense Petition

Please use your authority to deploy the military to help protect our nation’s borders. I am extremely concerned about the porosity of both our northern and southern borders. Creating the new Department of Homeland Security is a good initiative, but it will take time. In the meantime, putting troops on the border is an immediate step that will go a long way toward securing our border.

As you know, the Posse Comitatus Act allows the Executive Branch to deploy the military to provide support services such as surveillance, transportation, equipment and air patrols in enforcing federal laws along the border. In fact, under current law, members of our military could assist the Border Patrol in doing everything but performing searches, seizures, and arrests.

I urge you to use this authority immediately to bolster our border security. I hope you will strongly consider adding these important new tool to our nation’s arsenal.

Thank you,

Click here to sign the Petition

[Texasforever]

I'm still waiting for you to cite the section of the Constitution which prohibits stationing of troops on the border.

Hell that is easy, there was NO standing army to deploy when the constitution was ratified. Geeze go practice, you are pitiful.

[VinnyTex]

Nonsense. Did Eisenhower declare war on Mexico when he sent troops to the border during operation wetback?

[sarcasm]

That has to be the most pitiful argument I have ever seen.

[carpio]

Are you ready for every one including you to come under Military justice?

You bet. My eight years of active duty Army showed me a lot more justice from the military than I have seen from the corrupt socialist elitocracy that we live under today.

I go to bed every night with a prayer that I awaken to a Military government that has seized power while I slept. This attitude of mine arose when the D's nominated bill clinton back in 1990 and saddly it isn't getting better under the present management.

[Texasforever]

Did Eisenhower declare war on Mexico when he sent troops to the border during operation wetback?

Yes and that was an INS operation NOT a DOD initiative

resulting Operation Wetback, a national reaction against illegal immigration, began in Texas in mid-July 1954. Headed by the commissioner of Immigration and Naturalization Service, Gen. Joseph May Swing, the United States Border Patrol aided by municipal, county, state, and federal authorities, as well as the military, began a quasimilitary operation of search and seizure of all illegal immigrants. Fanning out from the lower Rio Grande valley, Operation Wetback moved northward. Illegal aliens were repatriated initially through Presidio because the Mexican city across the border, Ojinaga, had rail connections to the interior of Mexico by which workers could be quickly moved on to Durango. A major concern of the operation was to discourage reentry by moving the workers far into the interior. Others were to be sent through El Paso. On July 15, the first day of the operation, 4,800 aliens were apprehended. Thereafter the daily totals dwindled to an average of about 1,100 a day. The forces used by the government were actually relatively small, perhaps no more than 700 men, but were exaggerated by border patrol officials who hoped to scare illegal workers into flight back to Mexico. Valley newspapers also exaggerated the size of the government forces for their own purposes: generally unfavorable editorials attacked the Border Patrol as an invading army seeking to deprive Valley farmers of their inexpensive labor force. While the numbers of deportees remained relatively high, the illegals were transported across the border on trucks and buses. As the pace of the operation slowed, deportation by sea began on the Emancipation, which ferried wetbacks from Port Isabel, Texas, to Veracruz, and on other ships. Ships were a preferred mode of transport because they carried the illegal workers farther away from the border than did buses, trucks, or trains. The boat lift continued until the drowning of seven deportees who jumped ship from the Mercurio provoked a mutiny and led to a public outcry against the practice in Mexico. Other aliens, particularly those apprehended in the Midwest states, were flown to Brownsville and sent into Mexico from there. The operation trailed off in the fall of 1954 as INS funding began to run out.