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Saudis warned FBI about OKC bombing? Evidence suggests possible Iraq link
WorldNetDaily.com ^ | Saturday, June 22, 2002 | By Jon Dougherty

Posted on 06/22/2002 12:22:41 AM PDT by JohnHuang2

Saudi Arabian intelligence officials warned the FBI about an Iraqi plot to attack federal facilities in 1995, including the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City, according to an Oklahoma lawyer teaming up with a noted Washington, D.C., public-interest law firm.

Mike Johnston, co-counsel for Judicial Watch, said Thursday that on April 19, 1995 – the day of the Oklahoma City bombing – Saudi intelligence alerted CIA officials in Washington, who in turn advised FBI agents at the Washington Metropolitan Field Office.

"Vincent Canastraro, who is the former chief of counter-terrorism for the CIA … called Special Agent Kevin L. Foust and informed him that one of his best sources from Saudi Arabian intelligence specifically advised him that there was a squad of people currently in the United States, very possibly Iraqi, who, and I'm quoting, 'have been tasked with carrying out terrorist acts against the United States,'" Johnston said during an interview on the "Judicial Watch Report" radio program.

"The Saudi informant, who's part of the Saudi counter-terrorism service, told [federal officials] that he had seen the list and that 'first on the list was the federal building in Oklahoma City, Okla.'" Johnston continued.

Johnston said the Saudi agent reported that an Internal Revenue Service building in Houston, Texas, was "second on the list," followed by the FBI's field office in Los Angeles.

The FBI facility was targeted because, according to Johnston, it was the bureau's main counterintelligence operation at that time.

Johnston also said that documents obtained by Judicial Watch show that about a year later, on April 16, 1996, the FBI filed a follow-up report claiming the initial information gleaned from Saudi sources was most likely accurate.

"Even though the government has consistently maintained that no credible evidence exists linking McVeigh to international terrorists," Johnston said, "the FBI generated a follow-up 302 report one year later … where a supervisory special agent, name blacked out, contacted another source regarding the original information from Canastraro."

The special agent "was told that the information was confirmed as generated from a general within the Saudi Arabian Intelligence Service," said Johnston. "The FBI 302 memo went on to conclude that this information appears to have validity, citing Canastraro's former position within the CIA."

An FBI spokeswoman told WorldNetDaily the bureau had no comment on Johnston's allegations. CIA officials could not be reached for comment prior to press time.

When asked why the government did not do more to press McVeigh before his death if he was working for another government, Johnston said such a strategy" was apparently not in the game plan for the Justice Department …"

Johnston says some of his information came from documents ordered sealed by U.S. District Judge Richard Matsch, the presiding judge in McVeigh's initial trial, which took place in Denver, Colo.

He went on to note that Matsch has never lifted the order, though "it’s kind of hard to see how it would affect Tim McVeigh now."

"The federal government continues to seek the maintenance of that sealing order on the basis of privacy concerns," he said.

Johnston's disclosure comes on the heels of a report Wednesday that said the U.S. government was warned before the bombing that Islamic extremists were planning attacks.

Islamic terrorists were planning to "strike inside the U.S. against objects symbolizing the American government in the near future," said one warning memo, according to The Associated Press.

That report did not mention Saudi Arabia, but said only that U.S. officials were tipped by evidence "gathered across the globe from Iran and Syria to the Philippines."

AP said documents show the warnings became progressively more specific as to the time, place and type of attack.

Stephen Jones, McVeigh's attorney, was reportedly upset by the disclosure.

"We specifically asked on the record for all evidence, documents and tangible objects to show whether the government had received a warning of acts of terror against federal buildings. We didn't receive this," he told AP.

As WorldNetDaily reported in March, Johnston and Judicial Watch have filed suit against Iraq, charging that Baghdad masterminded and financed "in whole or in part" the OKC bombing.

Chris Farrell, investigative director for Judicial Watch, told WorldNetDaily that the suit has yet to be served on the Iraqi government, but that it is "trudging along" in its process. He said the suit is being handled "through diplomatic channels" in the State Department, which will hand it off to the Polish government.

The U.S. maintains a section in the Polish Embassy in Baghdad, and will serve the Iraqi government through it, with Polish assistance, Farrell said.

As to whether the U.S. government has responded to reports of the suit, Farrell said, "We haven't heard anything."

McVeigh and accomplice Terry Nichols were eventually charged and convicted for differing roles in connection with the OKC bombing. McVeigh was executed June 11, 2001; Nichols has been sentenced to life in prison, but could face state death penalty charges in Oklahoma.

Johnston, in his radio interview, also said there was some evidence suggesting that Khalid Shaikh Mohammed – a top al-Qaida lieutenant whom federal authorities believe may have masterminded the Sept. 11 attacks – trained Nichols for the OKC bombing in the Philippines.

Mohammed "was not only involved in the Sept. 11 attacks, he was involved in the 1993 World Trade Center attack" as well, Johnston charged. "He was in the Philippines at the same time as Terry Nichols, by the way, in the last trip that he made down there before the Murrah building bombing."

U.S. officials believe Mohammed was also in charge of transferring the funds used by the Sept. 11 hijackers.

"There's lots of links that tie him to 9-11," one government official told AP June 5. "He was intricately involved."

Mohammed is also believed to be an accomplice of Ramzi Yousef, who is currently serving a life sentence in the U.S. for his alleged role in the 1993 World Trade Center bombing.

Upon his arrest, Yousef was found in possession of plans to blow up a dozen U.S. airliners. Prosecutors also believe he had planned to crash a plane into the Pentagon.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: fredthompson; okcbombing; terrorism; terrorwar
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Saturday, June 22, 2002

Quote of the Day by ArGee

1 posted on 06/22/2002 12:22:41 AM PDT by JohnHuang2
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To: JohnHuang2
There were a lot of people on this forum clammoring for McVeigh's death last year.  I urged that we think long and hard before we kill one of the few people who knew the whole story, motivation, depth of involvement, major players and other inside details.  To no avail, McVeigh was executed.

Folks, McVeigh might have been duped into committing the OKC Bombing.  Whether duped or not, he certainly deserved exactly what he got.  But there are times, when in the interest of self-interest for the nation, men and women need to show restraint.  IMO we screwed up last year, BIG TIME.

At the time I suggested that Tim McVeigh might one day see things differently.  Little did I know that aound six months after his death this nation would be attacked in a manner exponentially worse than the attack on the OKC Federal Building.  McVeigh was involved in an attack against the FBI, BATF or other federal entities, and the building occupants.  I suspect he was so focused on the BATF or FBI that he was blinded to the children and others in the building.  Or perhaps he felt their deaths were warranted in exchange for those at Waco.  Frankly it's difficult to understand how he could have done what he did.  But I none the less feel that he would have seen the attacks on 09/11 differently.

I suspect McVeigh saw the OKC Bombing as an attack on federal agencies with colateral damage.  I don't think he would have seen the attack on the WTC and the Pentagon as mere attacks on federal agencies.  He would have likely seen them as attacks against the nation as a whole.  I have no way of knowing, but I suspect he might have been willing to loosen up with some information if he were appoached correctly after 09/11.  Terry Nichols hasn't.  Perhaps McVeigh wouldn't have either.  Or perhaps neither of them would if the feds didn't bother to ask them.  Somehow I doubt the feds are too anxious to have Nichols or anyone tie in the middle-east to OKC.  But then we have made sure that at least McVeigh will never be able to help us.

Now there is talk of middle-easterners being connected to the OKC bombing.  The John Gibson show on 06/20 presented a former CBS reporter's (Jayna Davis) report about the ME operatives that witnesses insist that they saw with McVeigh.  This was as emphatic a presentation as I have every seen with regard to middle-eastern involvement in the OKC bombing.  John Gibson ended his show with a resounding question that earily implied that the government's attempt at a cover-up may just be coming unraveled.  Here is that editorial by Gibson.  I appologize that I as unable to obtain the text from the interview of the reporter earlier in the program.  But I belive this editorial will display the impact it had on Gibson.
 

Thursday, June 20, 2002
By John Gibson

I think we're all convinced by now that George W. Bush has the cross hairs on Saddam Hussein.

And it's clear from the latest Fox News Opinion Dynamics poll that the American public supports action against Saddam by a huge, huge margin: 75 percent for — 14 percent against. In electoral politics that's a landslide.

But what do you think those numbers would be if it turns out reporter Jayna Davis is right? If the Iraqis were behind the Oklahoma City bombing, and Tim McVeigh and Terry Nichols were in fact so called 'lilly whites' recruited to act as fronts for Muslim or Iraqi, or maybe even Iranian, terror against the U.S. heartland.

And what if it turns out that Tim McVeigh, as a matter of pride and profound embarrassment, would never admit, never let it be known that he was acting in concert with, or on behalf of an actual enemy of  the United States — Iraq — an enemy that he personally fought against?

Or what if he was so worried about the fate of his beloved sister if he ever confessed that John Doe No. 2 was in fact hussein alhussani, the Iraqi identified by Jayna Davis?

How much angrier would the American public be to learn that the horror of April '95 was in fact Iraqi terror, carried under the shroud of two disgruntled, ticked off at the feds over David Koresh, white guys?

How angry would the American public be if it turns out that the prosecution of McVeigh as the executive in charge of the Murrah bombing was in fact a diversion, so as to let the real perps slip away quietly to gloat about their death and destruction in the safety of their lairs in Baghdad and Tehran.

This is nightmare scenario stuff, and what's so scary about this bad dream is there is actual evidence underpinning the fear that it could be true.

Did we execute Tim McVeigh when there was evidence that might have mitigated his involvement in the plot?

Did we send McVeigh to his grave keeping the secret of John Doe No. 2, and the terrible secret of treason and the hand of Iraq in that bombing?

Were we so anxious to get a conviction in that case and give the families closure, that we didn't follow the leads that would have led to an invasion of Iraq years ago, the toppling of Saddam, and maybe — just maybe — the destruction of the terror network that later killed more than 3,000 in New York and Washington, DC?

These are provocative questions that deserve answers and luckily Terry Nichols is still breathing and is facing a state trial in Oklahoma.

Let's hope the prosecutors there get to the bottom of this once and for all.

That's My Word.
 

Davis presented a strong case regarding witnesses seeing middle-easterners with McVeign and Nichols.  For once a talking head did not treat a person offering up information like Davis' in a hostile manner.  Gibson asked questions that probed and developed the case Davis was trying to make, that there was clearly a middle-eastern involvement.

If that show pops up this weekend, I'll tape the segment I missed and air it.  I think that show was something every American should hear.

I'd like to think this show caught a few people's attention across America.

2 posted on 06/22/2002 1:14:02 AM PDT by DoughtyOne
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To: DoughtyOne
I'd like to think this show caught a few people's attention across America.
I missed the show, but your reply caught my attention.

Kudos to John Gibson! I'm impressed!

3 posted on 06/22/2002 1:36:45 AM PDT by philman_36
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To: DoughtyOne
I also felt executing McVeigh was a huge mistake, at least at that time. They should have waited until all the facts were known. Even got into heated arguements on the local talk radio.

The thirst for blood was surprising. While I had no problem executing him, while kill THE key witness prematurely?

Thx for the post. John Gibson BUMP.
4 posted on 06/22/2002 5:41:38 AM PDT by the crow
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To: DoughtyOne
The rush to terminate mcVeigh, the only source of information re: the OKC attack pegged my "what the hell is going on" meter just like the rush to bulldoze and bury the remains of Murrah and Mt Carmel.

Given the fact that Bin Laden and nearly all of the september 11 attackers were Saudis, this revelation from Saudi intel that Iraq was behind OKC sounds like damage control to me.

Regards

J.R.


5 posted on 06/22/2002 7:36:30 AM PDT by NMC EXP
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To: OKCSubmariner
bump
6 posted on 06/22/2002 7:53:23 AM PDT by honway
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To: OKCSubmariner
Did you see Greta's show Friday nite?
She had on the reporter who has 22 signed affadavids(sp) by local folks who saw McVeigh and group WITH men from the Middle East.
Great show......any comments?
7 posted on 06/22/2002 8:03:52 AM PDT by mickie
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To: JohnHuang2; mickie; honway; backhoe; glorygirl; MizSterious; carenot; Betty Jo; Uncle Bill; ...
I am glad Johnstons interview is getting the attention it deserves.

What is frustrating for Mike and me is that we and others have been writing and talking about the info in his interview for over 6 years and no one in the press or government officials until recently would take it seriously. I have written articles about the same info which I have been posting on FR for over two years and started going to COngress with it in 1997. The Senate Judicairy would not even listen to the PEntagon terrorsim advisor about all this when the advisor and I briefed the Judicairy and Intelligence committees legal counsels in 1997 and 1999.

I have also written extensively on FR about documents and witnesses that prove prior knowledge and forewarning by the FBI and USG and a coverup of this fact. I went to Senator Shelbys aide,William Dunke, on the Senate Intell COmmittee in early January 1999 and told him directly about the 22 affadavits of witnesses who saw McVeigh with seven ME men in OKC (seven is the same number of men Saddam Hussein alleged hired according to thre Saudi intell people).

Dunke told me to have Jyana Davis go to the OKC FBI and have them receive the evidence and let the FBI know that the Senate Intelliegence COmmittee would be watching whether or not the FBI would receive the info. FBI agent Dan Vogel recieved the evidence in a meeting with Davis and her husband and her attorney (this has been now widely reported in the press and in Nichols pretrial hearings)in late January 1999 after they received my instructions from Dunke. In my opinion the FBI already knew most of what was turned over to to VOgel in January and February 1999 by Davis and her attorney.

Nelson also told me he , Nelson, also saw another ME looking man fleeing in a vehicle in front of the Murrah building at a high rate of speed one minute before the bombing.

The story of Cannistraro being told by Saudi intelligence (Prince Turki Faisal) about the Iraqi hit on the Murrah building (with the help of seven Pakistanis?) was in David Hoffman's book, the Politics of Terror, in OK State legislator Charles Key's bomb report, in William Jasper articles in the New AMerican, in Stephen Jones book, "Others Unknown", and in my articles on FR.

I have reported this month in several replies on FR about Khalid Mohammed, the mastermind of the 9/11 attacks having a possible connection to the OKC bombing via the Phillipines, Ramsy Youseff and Nichols. I reported this when the FBI and DOJ named Mohammed as the mastermind in a NYTImes article by James Risen. Last year the secretary (Sharon Twilley) of the man (Samir Khalil)who employed two ME suspects (Abraham Ahmad and Al Hussaini) in the OKC bombing identified a picture of Mohammed as the man she had paid three times for her employer(Khalil) in OKC in 1995. I gave all the info in this paragraph about Mohammed plus more to Mike Johnston and the Senate Intelligence Committee (Senator Shelby) last weeek.

I reported in an article on FR that Nichols was with a ME John Doe and a Rider truck in Newkirk OK on APril 18, 1995 the day before the OKC bombing. This has been known to the FBI since late APril 1995.

There were two ME males (likely Ahmad and Hussain) fleeing from in front of the Murrah building in a late model Chevy pickup truck(FBI APB on this). These mem were seen running and jumping into the truck by a witness interviewed live at the scene by KTOK radio reporter Cary Hulsey. The truck and its occupants were seen and identified speeding down the street by witness Kay Heron as she was crossing the street.

And there was a Mexican or ME looking man who crossed the street with McVeigh after they exited the Rider truck according to witness Rodney Johnson. McVeigh and the second man then drove off at a high rate of speed in McVeighs yellow Mercury Marquis down the ally behind the Journal Record building and across the street from the Murrah building according to witness Gary Brewer. This second Mexican or ME looking man may have also been riding in the Rider truck as McVeigh drove it up to and in front of the Murrah building.

8 posted on 06/22/2002 9:19:45 AM PDT by OKCSubmariner
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To: DoughtyOne; philman_36; spycatcher; ntrulock; Gary Aldrich
Please see reply #8
9 posted on 06/22/2002 9:23:20 AM PDT by OKCSubmariner
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To: NMC EXP
Given the fact that Bin Laden and nearly all of the september 11 attackers were Saudis, this revelation from Saudi intel that Iraq was behind OKC sounds like damage control to me.

Bin Laden's using largely Saudi terrorists on 9/11 might partly have been intended as payback against the Saudi government.

10 posted on 06/22/2002 9:30:45 AM PDT by aristeides
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To: OKCSubmariner
You have done your duty as an American citizen!

You have not become faint of heart when fools call you names.

You have done what few in this whole country have done!

You, OKCSubmariner, are my hero!
11 posted on 06/22/2002 9:37:38 AM PDT by Betty Jo
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To: JohnHuang2
The FBI facility was targeted because, according to Johnston, it was the bureau's main counterintelligence operation at that time.

Any explanation for why the Murrah Building was first on the list?

12 posted on 06/22/2002 9:38:51 AM PDT by aristeides
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To: OKCSubmariner
Unfortunately, sometimes good information from books, etc just needs to be repackaged to follow other mainstream articles and changing public attention.

13 posted on 06/22/2002 9:40:37 AM PDT by spycatcher
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To: OKCSubmariner; Donald Stone; Joe Montana; AtticusX; mancini
When asked why the government did not do more to press McVeigh before his death if he was working for another government, Johnston said such a strategy" was apparently not in the game plan for the Justice Department …"

No surprise here. Thanks for the additional info OKCSub.

14 posted on 06/22/2002 9:43:07 AM PDT by Fred Mertz
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To: DoughtyOne

Not for commercial use. Solely to be used for the educational purposes of research and open discussion.

Fox News Network 
SHOW: THE BIG STORY WITH JOHN GIBSON 
June 20, 2002 Thursday 

Interview With Jayna Davis 

GUESTS: Jayna Davis 
BYLINE: John Gibson 

GIBSON: Documents obtained by The Associated Press show that our government was warned that Islamic terrorists were planning attacks on American federal buildings around the time of the Oklahoma City bombing. The Clinton administration even stepped up security around such buildings. 

So could this mean that Timothy McVeigh was acting in league with those militants? My next guest says, yes, indeed. 

Jayna Davis is a former Oklahoma City television reporter. She joins us now from Oklahoma City. 

So, Jayna, this warning that was issued in February of 1995, a -- essentially a couple of months before the Murrah building explosion -- do you think it was connected to that bombing? 

JAYNA DAVIS, FORMER OKLAHOMA CITY TV REPORTER: Well, it dovetails with the information that we generated when I was working as a reporter for the NBC affiliate here in Oklahoma City, and we gathered information from 24 witnesses who identified eight Middle Eastern men, the majority of whom were of Iraqi descend, working in collusion with Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols during various stages of the bombing plot to blow up the Murrah building. 

The warning you refer to, John, I have in my possession. It was issued by the Congressional Task Force on Terrorism and Unconventional Warfare, and what -- why it's startling to me is because it stated in February of 1995 that there would be an Iran-sponsored Islamic attack on U.S. soil. This specific target was Washington, D.C., primarily Congress and the White House. 

Once security was beefed up after the dissemination of this warning, then there was an updated warning that was then issued by the director of the Congressional Task Force, Mr. Yossef Bodansky. He stated in the updated warning the specific language that the terrorists planned to strike at the heart of the U.S. but not acting alone. 

The Islamic terrorists were going to employ the services and recruit what they call two lily whites. And in the jargon of the intelligence community, lily whites means anybody that's not connected or ostensibly connected to any Middle Eastern terrorist organizations and they have no police record, they're clean, they wouldn't be flagged by any law- enforcement agencies. Both Terry Nichols and Timothy McVeigh fit that criterion. 

GIBSON: Now, Jayna, you have long held that a character named Hussain Al-Hussaini is John Doe #2, and I think we have pictures of him here. This is Hussain Hasham Al-Hussaini, and then, of course, we'll see the picture of John Doe #2, and he does bear a resemblance to him. What evidence do you have that Hussain Al-Hussaini, an Iraqi, was with Tim McVeigh? 

DAVIS: Well, let's start with four days before the bombing. Two witnesses who independently identified him out of a photo line-up of 35 photographs of eight different Middle Eastern men. These witnesses identified him independently of each other as drinking beer with Timothy McVeigh in a tavern in Oklahoma City on April 15th of 1995. 

Then there were two more witnesses that identified him jogging outside the Murrah building, dressed in blue jeans with a backpack and a windbreaker, racing from the Murrah building, one block east of the building, timing his run, before daybreak, the day of April 19th. These witnesses walked past this individual they saw running within about three to four feet and looked him square in the face. He was positively identified... 

GIBSON: Where is Hussain Al-Hussaini? 

DAVIS: ... Hussain Al-Hussaini. 

GIBSON: Who... 

DAVIS: Excuse me. 

GIBSON: Where is he now? 

DAVIS: Well, we don't know. I do know that he went and moved to Boston sometime around 1997 and claimed that he was working at Boston International Airport... 

GIBSON: Logan? 

DAVIS: ... in '97 and '98. Logan. Yes. 

GIBSON: And he was an Iraqi soldier? 

DAVIS: It's also important to note, John, he was identified in the Ryder truck with McVeigh 30 minutes prior to the bombing when McVeigh stopped to ask for directions at 10th and Hudson, which is about five blocks north of the Murrah building. 

He was also identified at ground zero stepping out of the Ryder truck. He was identified in the passenger seat -- I'm sorry -- in the driver's seat of a brown Chevrolet pickup speeding away from the bomb site 60 seconds after the blast in a truck that matched the description of the official FBI all-points bulletin issued the morning of the bombing for Middle Eastern terrorists. 

GIBSON: Jayna Davis, former Oklahoma City television reporter. 

Jayna, thanks very much.



15 posted on 06/22/2002 9:43:30 AM PDT by Nita Nupress
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To: JohnHuang2
"The Saudi informant, who's part of the Saudi counter-terrorism service, told [federal officials] that he had seen the list and that 'first on the list was the federal building in Oklahoma City, Okla.'" Johnston continued.

13 Posts into this thread, and no one's said it yet:

What Did Bill Clinton Know, And When Did He Know It?!


16 posted on 06/22/2002 9:44:49 AM PDT by usconservative
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To: aristeides; Nita Nupress; Uncle Bill; Sal; rdavis84; thinden; mancini; honway
Any explanation for why the Murrah Building was first on the list?

My educated guess is that it was deemed most vulnerable assuming that numerous targets were 'cased' by foot soldiers.

I think AKAL security employed only about three? folks for daytime patrols. And I think these security people covered a couple of buildings, not just the Murrah bldg.

17 posted on 06/22/2002 9:48:24 AM PDT by Fred Mertz
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To: JohnHuang2
Saudi Arabian intelligence officials warned the FBI about an Iraqi plot to attack federal facilities in 1995, including the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City,...

Wasn't there a report that all of the FBI agents were gone from the Murrah Federal Building on that day?

If so now we know why. They were given a heads up.

18 posted on 06/22/2002 9:51:08 AM PDT by Spunky
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To: Fred Mertz
I think AKAL security employed only about three? folks for daytime patrols. And I think these security people covered a couple of buildings, not just the Murrah bldg.

If I'm remembering correctly, only one of those three Teg/Akal security guards was covering the Murrah building, and he'd already gone home earlier in the day on the 19th.

19 posted on 06/22/2002 9:54:38 AM PDT by Nita Nupress
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To: *OKCbombing; *TerrOrWar
Bump list
20 posted on 06/22/2002 9:56:19 AM PDT by Free the USA
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To: Nita Nupress
Thank you very much for posting the Fox News interview from the Big Show. It is excellent.

When you have the time from your busy schedule, you always make wonderful contributions in your replies. Keep finding the time when you can to continue doing what you do so well.

21 posted on 06/22/2002 10:17:19 AM PDT by OKCSubmariner
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To: Nita Nupress
Thank you Nita. Excellent find. I appreciate you providing that interview for the forum.

D1

22 posted on 06/22/2002 10:46:32 AM PDT by DoughtyOne
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To: OKCSubmariner
How the government thought they were going to cover up all these witnesses, Carol Howe, the judge that was warned, the fire and police officials that were warned, etc., I have no idea. OKC and TWA 800 are going to unravel. Our government is going to take a huge hit on this. And sadly, that's what should happen. These two cover-ups have been a despicable display of arrogance and manipulation. Thanks for the comments.
23 posted on 06/22/2002 11:10:41 AM PDT by DoughtyOne
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To: Mitchell; The Great Satan
Ping
24 posted on 06/22/2002 11:12:57 AM PDT by BlackVeil
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To: DoughtyOne; the crow
You were so right about the execution of McVeigh being an error. Too many unanswered questions, I did think so at the time.
25 posted on 06/22/2002 11:15:24 AM PDT by BlackVeil
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To: OKCSubmariner
BTTT
26 posted on 06/22/2002 11:16:22 AM PDT by Marianne
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To: BlackVeil
Thank you.
27 posted on 06/22/2002 11:21:27 AM PDT by DoughtyOne
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To: mickie
Did you see Greta's show Friday nite? She had on the reporter who has 22 signed affadavids(sp) by local folks who saw McVeigh and group WITH men from the Middle East.

You are the second person I have seen mention this (the other person was on a different thread). I am surprised, but pleased to hear Greta covered this topic.

I did not see it----is her show repeated over the weekend?

28 posted on 06/22/2002 11:22:18 AM PDT by cyncooper
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To: OKCSubmariner
What ever happened to the surveillance cameras that had recordings of John Doe and McVeigh?

Anything ever come of the reports that there were other bombs INSIDE the building that didn't explode and that the BATF took from the scene?

How about that retired USAF General who's analysis said that there HAD to have been other bombs inside the buiding, that the truck bomb was just a screen?

What did the FBI and BATF know and when did they know it?

29 posted on 06/22/2002 11:23:47 AM PDT by Eagle Eye
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To: DoughtyOne
But there must be more to the cover ups than arrogance and manipulation (although there is plenty of both!) I just don't understand why they would not go public with the information that these were attacks by a foriegn power. After all, the foreign power in question (Iraq?) was already on the nose.

Also, these events may be tied to others, for there were a whole series of what looked like terrorist events in the 1990s, (such as that Israeli plane with chemical weapons on board, downed over Amsterdam. They said it was an accident. Hmmm.) But they went unclaimed and unexplained.

One of the weird things about the Oklahoma bombing, and more recent events, is that there was never any real announcement from the perpetrators. It is as if they, and the govt, are combining to keep it quiet. So it is a govt to govt threat, rather than ordinary terrorism? I just don't know.

30 posted on 06/22/2002 11:24:19 AM PDT by BlackVeil
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To: keri; Nogbad; Alamo-Girl; okie01; Shermy; My Identity; Ordinary_American
Ping. Sorry for any duplicates -- I've tried not to send this to people already on the thread.
31 posted on 06/22/2002 11:26:16 AM PDT by Mitchell
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To: BlackVeil
So it is a govt to govt threat, rather than ordinary terrorism?

In other words, just plain war. It's conceivable.

32 posted on 06/22/2002 11:27:22 AM PDT by The Great Satan
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To: DoughtyOne
Thank you for speaking up at the time about the McVeigh execution. You really are a Doughty One. Were you wearing a flame proof suit? I didn't follow that case in detail, but I was never satisfied with the evidence, ever since I read how there was no forensic traces of explosives in the lockers of the accused, or any of their properties. So where was the stuff kept? The maker and keeper of the bomb is a central character, and knocking off the guy who planted it teaches us nothing.
33 posted on 06/22/2002 11:37:07 AM PDT by BlackVeil
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To: The Great Satan
just plain war. It's conceivable. Shiver. You may be right. When considering these strange "terrorism without the publicity" events, getting worse each time until one arrives at Sept 11, inevitably I considered your theory about the US being subject to calculated threats by Iraq.
34 posted on 06/22/2002 11:46:19 AM PDT by BlackVeil
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To: BlackVeil; OKCSubmariner
Anyone else find it interesting that after the OKC bombing al Hussaini had a job at Logan International in Boston. And Davis, who was on FOX something like four times (that I saw) on Friday, mentioned something about al Hussaini filing a lawsuit that was later dismissed because Hussaini could offer nothing to back up his side of the case. And that the judge ruled that the info offered up by Davis was indeed factual (or legalese to that effect). Anyone know anything about this?
35 posted on 06/22/2002 11:50:39 AM PDT by mewzilla
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To: JohnHuang2
Re: The Honorable Judge:

Matsch’s Court in Colorado was obviously especially selected by Attorney General Janet Reno and minions in the Justice Department.

From the beginning, Matsch made absolute sure that the whole truth of the Oklahoma City bombing would never get out. Judge Matsch severely limited the evidence that McVeigh’s defense team could present to the jury. When McVeigh’s lawyers early on complained that the FBI and prosecutors were withholding documentation, Matsch shut them up. When they attempted to demonstrate that other individuals—and federal law enforcement—may have been involved or had advance knowledge of the bombing, Matsch refused to allow it.

36 posted on 06/22/2002 11:59:35 AM PDT by lawdog
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To: JohnHuang2
Bump
37 posted on 06/22/2002 12:00:07 PM PDT by PGalt
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To: Fred Mertz
Doesn't or didn't a Pakastani related private security firm handle some of the "security'at the Murrah Building in OKC ?
38 posted on 06/22/2002 12:03:28 PM PDT by lawdog
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To: DoughtyOne
Here's another DOJ employee that should be investigated :

"...The McVeigh’s defense team tried to introduce evidence of participation in the bombing conspiracy by Strassmeir and Dennis Mahon through the testimony of BATF informant Carol Howe. Special Prosecutor Beth Wilkinson flat out lied to Judge Richard Matsch. She told the judge that Strassmeir was "A mere wisp of the wind." She said Strassmeir’s only problem was that he might have overstayed his visa. She falsely stated that the letters "A" and "O" on Strassmeir’s immigration record stood for "admitted" and "overstayed" respectively.

Wilkinson also falsely told the judge that Carol Howe had been fired by the BATF as mentally unstable and untrustworthy. She falsified the date Howe left the service of the BATF...."

39 posted on 06/22/2002 12:14:51 PM PDT by lawdog
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To: Eagle Eye
I believe the tapes were ordered "sealed" by The Honorable Judge Matsch.

"Nothing to see her sheeple...move along.."

40 posted on 06/22/2002 12:17:19 PM PDT by lawdog
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To: DoughtyOne
Oops, never mind it appears that Wilkinson may have left for "greener pastures".

"A grand jury investigating Chandra Levy's homicide and whether Rep. Gary Condit obstructed justice in the case has heard from the congressman's top aide. Police also have found more of Levy's bones. Mike Lynch, Condit's California-based chief of staff, answered questions Friday in front of a District of Columbia Superior Court grand jury, Beth Wilkinson, Lynch's lawyer said Wednesday. "He cooperated fully with the investigators and prosecutors and answered all questions in a candid and forthright manner," Wilkinson said.

Lynch last year publicly denied Condit and Levy were having an affair. A month later, Condit told investigators that he and Levy were romantically involved, according to.."

41 posted on 06/22/2002 12:48:27 PM PDT by lawdog
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To: DoughtyOne
Our government is going to take a huge hit on this. And sadly, that's what should happen.

Sadly, I doubt it. The thwarted efforts of OKC Submariner and others makes me think this was a cover-up from the top down, and may involve both the former and current administrations. It was in Clinton's interest to point the finger exclusively at the VRWC, and it may have been in the Bushs' and other interests to not have the finger point at Saudi Arabia and Iraq (this may very well have been a collaborative effort of the two).

The purposeful refusal to acknowledge Saudi Arabia's complicity in 9/11, and the downplaying of Israeli documents proving their financing of Hamas and other terrorist entities underscores how very much our "national interests" trumps terrorism -- not to mention the crisis of faith in government that would ensue if the truth were revealed.

I don't think it's out of character for any politician to convince themselves (especially now) that squelching OKC is "for the good of the country."

42 posted on 06/22/2002 1:03:41 PM PDT by browardchad
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To: NMC EXP
What do the Davidian Ranch, the OKC federal building and the home of David Beck have in common? I submit that one highly visible common aftermath is that federal government policy was implemented to strip these sights of any possible evidence ASAP.
43 posted on 06/22/2002 1:11:52 PM PDT by DoughtyOne
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To: JohnHuang2
bump
44 posted on 06/22/2002 1:33:00 PM PDT by Nogbad
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To: cyncooper; OKCSubmariner
Jyanna Davis said the she has tried for years to get this information out in the public, with no sucess.
Greta said "maybe NOW you will".
Don't think the show will be repeated over the weekend......but FNC seem to be right on the scent of a big story here.

Thanks OKCSubmariner for all!

45 posted on 06/22/2002 1:46:48 PM PDT by mickie
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To: BlackVeil
"I just don't understand why they would not go public with the information that these were attacks by a foriegn power."

It's just speculation, but once the John Doe I & II sketches were published, the liklihood that it was not an attack by Mid East terrorists became rather high.

Once McVeigh was identified, and his prior history known, the finger of suspicion pointed directly at the so-called "right-wing militia groups".

From a political standpoint, this development was golden for a sitting president who had become "irrelevant" in the wake of the Republican tidal wave in the Congress just sworn in that January.

Once the blame could be credibly attached to the right-wing, it was no longer necessary to investigate or seek other possible culprits. The Clinton administration and the Reno Justice Department had the scenario they needed.

That the scenario may have been subsequently found to be only partially correct would rate as a.) irrelevant and b.) mildly embarrassing, therefore c.) not worth pursuing.

It is difficult to imagine any administration taking such a devious and duplicitous approach to such an important event. But, if anybody could, the Clinton administration could.

I find this explanation very logical.

46 posted on 06/22/2002 1:57:58 PM PDT by okie01
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To: OKCSubmariner
This whole thing needed more than five degress of rudder a long time ago.
47 posted on 06/22/2002 2:04:09 PM PDT by philman_36
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To: BlackVeil
But there must be more to the cover ups than arrogance and manipulation ... "

It will eventually be proven that Judge Matsch was just sucking up political points by doing the bidding of Janet Reno, who used this national catastrophy to further obscure her bloody fingerprints found all over WACO. In the process she also supported her boss (Krinton) by keeping the public focus/anger/condemnation solely on the angry-white-guys/Redneck Militia types.

If I'm not mistaken, Krinton was even quoted later on how the whole OKC incident really saved his political butt at the time.

All in all, I'd say it worked out quite well for the Krinton Mafia ... though it appears to be coming a bit unraveled these days despite President Bush's cooperation/refusal to look into ANY of the acts of criminality and treason by the former administration.

Sure hope George isn't too surprised in the future by the effect upon the character of our American leadership, who were standing by and witnessed the flagrant lack of ethics and accountability exhibited throughout government during the Krinton years, and the following whitewash by President Born-Again, Princeling George.

What a pathetic display of lack of character ... America continues in her downward spiral.

48 posted on 06/22/2002 2:08:59 PM PDT by CIBvet
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To: OKCSubmariner
Keep up the good work.
49 posted on 06/22/2002 2:30:15 PM PDT by Shermy
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To: mewzilla
Anyone know anything about this?

James Patterson knows about it.


Not for commercial use. Solely to be used for the educational purposes of research and open discussion.

The Indianapolis Star 
March 23, 2002 
Pg. 12A 

Ex-CIA agent believes in a John Doe 2 
By James Patterson 

Though the U.S. government clings to the notion that Timothy McVeigh, acting alone, set off the horrendous explosion on April 19, 1995, that pancaked the nine-story Oklahoma City federal building, a former high-ranking CIA official says there's solid evidence to indicate he worked with an Iraqi John Doe No. 2

Larry Johnson, former CIA officer and deputy director of the State Department's Office of Counterterrorism, told a network news show this week the FBI had failed to properly investigate significant eyewitness accounts of McVeigh meeting with the man believed to be a former Iraqi soldier. 

Johnson made those comments on The Big Story with John Gibson, a Fox news program airing nightly at 5 p.m., which delved into an extensive dossier on the case compiled by former Oklahoma TV reporter Jayna Davis. The program aired just days after a lawsuit filed by the watchdog organization Judicial Watch that alleges Iraqi involvement in the Oklahoma City bombing and seeks compensation for victims from frozen Iraqi assets. Davis, who reported from Ground Zero in Oklahoma City for NBC-affiliate KFOR, broadcast a series suggesting a possible accomplice to the bombing who had been seen with McVeigh on the days leading up to and the day of the bombing. Gibson unabashedly reported Davis' work to a national TV audience on three consecutive days this week. 

On Monday, Gibson relayed that Davis' evidence is based "on the simple proposition that Tim McVeigh's John Doe 2 was an Iraqi, a former Iraqi soldier from the Gulf War, paroled into the U.S. under a claim of political asylum, known to be in Oklahoma City as of November of '94 almost a year before the Murrah bombing, spotted with McVeigh by multiple witnesses, and who in recent years was working at (Boston) Logan airport," where the Sept. 11 hijackings originated. 

On Tuesday, Gibson posed the question to Johnson about a possible link between Iraq and Oklahoma City. 

"I think this woman (Davis) has done a remarkable job of finding a link that was overlooked," Johnson said. Johnson also commented on a Justice Department review of the thousands of documents that resurfaced or were destroyed, delaying McVeigh's execution for a month. 

"The FBI . . ., they still have not turned over all of the documents to the defense teams that came out of Oklahoma," he said. "In particular, the information that links, shows possible links to Middle Eastern subjects." 

KFOR's reports distorted the face of one of those suspects and did not name him. However, on his own volition, a former Iraqi soldier who claims he surrendered to the U.S. in the Gulf War and who was brought to the United States from a refugee camp in Saudi Arabia, stepped forward and identified himself to two other Oklahoma City TV stations and The Associated Press as the man that KFOR had implicated as John Doe No. 2. 

Hussain Hashem Alhussaini sued KFOR and Davis for defamation, saying the reports falsely identified him as John Doe No. 2. But a U.S. District Court disagreed. In ruling for KFOR, U.S. District Judge Timothy Leonard found in November 1999 that the station had taken extraordinary measures to hide Alhussaini's identity. 

Leonard added that KFOR's reports were either "based on fact or a matter of opinion," and not negligence or reckless disregard for the truth. Alhussaini, who went to work at Boston's Logan International Airport after leaving Oklahoma City, continues to deny any involvement in the bombing. Former CIA Agent Johnson is unconvinced. 

"I compared it to all the human intelligence I've looked at," he said. "And comparing it to classified material, this is not from just one witness, this is not from two witnesses; you're talking 23 people, you're talking at least 10 people who put Tim McVeigh with Hussain Alhussaini before the Oklahoma City bombing. 

"Two people who identified Hussain Alhussaini and Tim McVeigh in a bar on April 15; three people who identified Hussain Alhussaini running from the federal building early in the morning at 5:30 as if he is practicing timing himself. You have two witnesses that put Tim McVeigh with Hussain Alhussaini in the Ryder truck; you have one witness inside the Murrah Building who sees Hussain Alhussaini eating out of the truck . . . 

"The point is the FBI has not thoroughly, fully investigated this. It is an outrage. I went along for many years thinking they have covered the bases. They have not, John." 

You can't say Davis didn't try. She tried to give the witness statements to the FBI in the fall of '97, but it wouldn't take them.


 

50 posted on 06/22/2002 4:49:41 PM PDT by Nita Nupress
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