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The Status of Research Into Vaccine Safety and Autism
http://www.house.gov/reform/hearings/healthcare/02.06.19/opening_statement.htm ^ | June 19, 2002 - 11:00 a.m. | Dan Burton

Posted on 06/22/2002 4:57:29 AM PDT by rubbertramp

Committee on Government Reform - “The Status of Research into Vaccine Safety and Autism” - Please read.

Committee on Government Reform - “The Status of Research into Vaccine Safety and Autism”

June 19, 2002 - 11:00 a.m.

2154 Rayburn House Office Building

In April the Committee conducted a hearing reviewing the epidemic of autism and the Department of Health and Human Service’s (HHS) response. Ten years ago, autism was thought to affect 1 in 10,000 individuals in the United States. When the Committee began its oversight investigation in 1999, autism was thought to affect 1 in 500 children. Today, the National Institutes of Health (NIH) estimates that autism affects 1 in 250 children.

In April we looked at the investment our Government has made into autism as compared to other epidemics. We showed in that hearing that the CDC and NIH have not provided adequate funding to address the issues in the manner that our Public Health Service agencies have used to address other epidemics.

(two charts comparing amount of funding for various diseases)

After our hearing, I joined with my colleagues on the Coalition on Autism Research and Education to request from our appropriators that at least 120 million dollars be made available in FY 2003 for autism research across the NIH and at that an additional $8 million be added to the CDC’s budget for autism research.

Giving more money to research is not the only answer though. Oversight is needed to make sure that research that is funded will sufficiently answer the questions regarding the epidemic, how to treat autism, and how to prevent the next ten years from seeing the statistic of 1 in 250 from becoming 1 in 25 children.

High quality clinical and laboratory research is needed now, not five or ten years from now. Independent analysis of previous epidemiological and case control studies is needed as well.

We have learned that a majority of parents whose children have late-onset or acquired autism believe it is vaccine-related. They deserve answers. We have also learned that the parents have been our best investigators in looking for both causes of autism and for treatments.

It has been parents who have formed non-profit organizations to raise research dollars to conduct the research that the CDC, the FDA, and the NIH have neglected to do. We have heard from many of these parents in the past, Elizabeth Birt, Rick Rollens, Shelley Reynolds, and Jeanna Smith, to name just a few. Each of these parents had healthy babies who became autistic after vaccination.

I might have been like many of the officials within the public health community – denying a connection - had I not witnessed this tragedy in my own family. I might not have believed the reports from parents like Scott and Laura Bono, Jeff Sell, Jeff and Shelly Segal, and Ginger Brown, who came to me with pictures, videos and medical records. I might have been like so many pediatricians who discounted the correlation between vaccination and the onset of fever, crying, and behavioral changes. Because both of my grandchildren suffered adverse reactions to vaccines, I could not ignore the parent’s plea for help. I could not ignore their evidence.

My only grandson became autistic right before my eyes – shortly after receiving his federally recommended and state-mandated vaccines. Without a full explanation of what was in the shots being given, my talkative, playful, outgoing healthy grandson Christian was subjected to very high levels of mercury through his vaccines. He also received the MMR vaccine. Within a few days he was showing signs of autism.

As part of our investigation, the Committee has reviewed ongoing concerns about vaccine safety, vaccine adverse events tracking, the Vaccine Safety Datalink (VSD) Project, and the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program. I have joined with Congressman Weldon, Congressman Waxman and 32 other members of Congress in introducing HR 3741, the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program Improvement Act of 2002 to realign the compensation program with Congressional Intent.

In today’s hearing, we will receive a research update from several previous witnesses as well as new research findings that further support a connection between autism and vaccine adverse events. We will learn more about both the possible link between the use of the mercury-containing preservative thimerosal in vaccines and autism, as well as autistic entercolitis resulting from the Measles-Mumps-Rubella (MMR) vaccine.

Through a Congressional mandate to review thimerosal content in medicines, the FDA learned that childhood vaccines, when given according to the CDC’s recommendations exposed over 8,000 children a day in the United States to levels of mercury that exceeded Federal guidelines. Is there a connection between this toxic exposure to mercury and the autism epidemic? We will hear from Dr. James Bradstreet and Dr. Vera Stejskal on this issue.

We have twice received testimony from Dr. Andrew Wakefield regarding his clinical research into autistic entercolitis. We will learn today that not only has he continued to conduct clinical research, but that this research is confirming the presence of vaccine-related measles RNA in the biopsies from autistic children. Dr. Wakefield - like many scientists who blaze new trails - has been attacked by his own profession. He has been forced out of his position at the Royal Free Hospital in England. He and his colleagues have fought an uphill battle to continue the research that has been a lone ray of hope for parents whose children have autistic entercolitis. Dr. Arthur Krigsman is joining us as well today to discuss his clinical findings of inflammatory bowel disorder in autistic children. He will share with us his initial findings as well as discuss his research plans currently with his Institutional Review Board for approval.

Do the epidemiological and case control studies, which the CDC has attempted to use to refute Dr. Wakefield’s laboratory results, answer the autism-vaccine questions honestly? Epidemiologist Dr. Walter Spitzer is back today to answer this question. What else is needed to prove or disprove a connection?

Unfortunately, rather than considering the preliminary clinical findings of Dr. Wakefield as a newly documented adverse reaction to a vaccine, the CDC attempted to refute these clinical findings through an epidemiological review. While epidemiological research is very important, it cannot be used to disprove laboratory and clinical findings. Valuable time was lost in replicating this research and determining whether the hypothesis was accurate.

Officials at HHS have aggressively denied any possible connection between vaccines and autism. They have waged an information campaign endorsing one conclusion on an issue where the science is still out. This has significantly undermined public confidence in the career public service professionals who are charged with balancing the dual roles of assuring the safety of vaccines and increasing immunization rates. Increasingly, parents come to us with concerns that integrity and an honest public health response to a crisis have been left by the wayside in lieu of protecting the public health agenda to fully immunize children. Parents are increasingly concerned that the Department may be inherently conflicted in its multiple roles of promoting immunization, regulating manufacturers, looking for adverse events, managing the vaccine injury compensation program, and developing new vaccines. Families share my concern that vaccine manufacturers have too much influence as well. How will HHS restore the public’s trust?

Access to the Vaccine Safety Datalink (VSD)

One of the primary topics to be discussed at this hearing is access to the Vaccine Safety Datalink. (VSD). To help fill scientific gaps, the CDC formed partnerships with eight large health maintenance organizations through an agreement with the American Association of Health Plans to continually evaluate vaccine safety. This project is known as the Vaccine Safety Datalink (VSD) and includes medical records on millions of children and adults. Up until this year, access to data from the VSD has been limited to researchers affiliated with the CDC and a few of their handpicked friends. This ‘good old boy’s network” practice has predictably led to questions about the objectivity of the research and the fairness of the results.

The VSD data should be made available to all legitimate scientific researchers so that independent studies can be conducted and results verified. This database contains a wealth of data involving millions of patients over a ten-year period. If properly utilized, it can help researchers study vitally important questions about the safety of vaccines, the effects of mercury-based preservatives in childhood vaccines, and many other questions.

The Committee first raised this issue with the CDC two years ago. For two years the CDC delayed. Six months ago, we were informed that the CDC was developing a plan to expand access to the database. Finally, in February of this year, after a great deal of prompting from the Committee, Dr. Robert Chen, Chief of Vaccine Safety and Development at the National Immunization Program, informed Committee staff that the CDC had finalized its plan and that it was poised to put it into effect. Under this plan, any legitimate scientist could submit a proposal to the CDC to conduct research using VSD data and access to the data would be provided along with some basic safeguards.

In preparation for today’s hearing, Committee staff asked the CDC why the plan described to us in February had not yet been put into effect. The staff was informed that the plan had been put into effect. However, there had been no public announcement. How are researchers supposed to know about the availability of the data if there is no announcement? It took two years of prodding by this Committee to get the CDC to open up access to the database. For four months it appears that the CDC didn’t inform anybody but this Committee of the data’s availability.

That doesn’t make it appear that the CDC is making a good faith effort to open up this database. It looks to me like the CDC is trying to do the bare minimum that they have to do to get us off their backs. That’s not acceptable. That’s why I insisted that Dr. Chen be here today. I just want to ask him why they didn’t tell anyone about the database being available. I’d like to know how he expects researchers to use this data if nobody tells them it’s available.

Dr. Roger Bernier is here from the CDC to testify about these issues. He is accompanied by both Dr. Chen, the creator of the VSD Project and Dr. Frank DeStefano, the CDC official who is also a co-author of the MMR – IBD study. They are here to address our questions on the VSD project and the vaccine- autism research. The CDC employees are accompanied by Dr. Stephen Foote of the National Institutes of Health and Dr. William Egan of the Food and Drug Administration.

As representatives of the people, we have a responsibility to ensure that our public health officials are adequately and honestly addressing this epidemic and its possible links to vaccine injury.

I look forward to hearing from our witnesses today. Our hearing record will remain open until July 3.

I now recognize the ranking minority member, Mr. Waxman for his opening statement.


TOPICS: Extended News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: autism; mercury; vaccine
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
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1 posted on 06/22/2002 4:57:29 AM PDT by rubbertramp
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To: t-shirt; Nora; thinden; rdavis84; Al B.
What did the CDC know and when did they know it?
2 posted on 06/22/2002 5:03:20 AM PDT by rubbertramp
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To: rubbertramp
Please refresh my memory; What is the purpose of the Mercury in the vaccines?
3 posted on 06/22/2002 5:38:14 AM PDT by rdavis84
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To: rubbertramp
Years ago, I worked at an institution for the retarded. Looking back, many of the students were autistic.

Nowadays, when I see kids called "autistic" in my office, usually they are merely retarded, and don't really meet the criteria for autism. I suspect it's like a lot of epidemics we see: we lower the criteria for diagnosis, and voila an epidemic.

4 posted on 06/22/2002 7:05:32 AM PDT by LadyDoc
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To: rubbertramp
Thx for the heads up. Bet this is one hearing you won't see on c-span this weekend.

Too bad a congressman has to be directly affected by an issue like this before light gets shined on it.

5 posted on 06/22/2002 8:24:27 AM PDT by Al B.
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To: LadyDoc
I have always wondered if the rise in rates of autism, or whatever symptoms it is are passing for autism, has soemthing to do with drug use by parents? Either majihuana, harder stuff, amphetamines, or drugs like prozac. parsy the curious.
6 posted on 06/22/2002 8:27:11 AM PDT by parsifal
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To: parsifal
I have always wondered if the rise in rates of autism, or whatever symptoms it is are passing for autism, has soemthing to do with drug use by parents? Either majihuana, harder stuff, amphetamines, or drugs like prozac. parsy the curious.

I know of several cases of autism where the mothers involved were heavy drug users. Of course, this has never been disclosed to their doctors. Anecdotal information, but, still, it makes me wonder. If the medical establishment is willing to insist HIV causes AIDS, why should we expect them to get anything else straight.

Having these bozos tell me I can't have a smallpox shot when I *know* for a fact there are tons of poorly guarded smallpox stockpiles in Russia is infuriating.

7 posted on 06/22/2002 8:51:09 AM PDT by AdamSelene235
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To: parsifal
There is a lot of ADHD (attention deficit disorder) due to the mother taking drugs and alcohol when pregnant, but not autism. No known problems with prozac, but they are looking hard. I've only told one lady to stay on Prozac when pregnant-- she had obsessive compulsive disorder, and could not function. But most cases I see are merely mild to moderate depression, and can stop it with lots of family sympathy to help them. So far the studies don't show a major increase with prozac. Lithium however causes severe malformations and is an indication for theraputic abortion.

The classical description of autism is a normal child who at the age of 8 months to two years develops a high fever. After the fever, he or she deteriorates and develops social problems, ritualistic behavior, speech abnormalities etc.

No one knows why. We do know that rubella can cause it, which is why they are so worried about MMR. Also, measles used to be associated with a lot of encephalitis, that left people brain damaged. That's why a lot of people are worried about MMR vaccine. There is also a question if the problem was the mercury preservative in the vaccine, since heavy metal poisoning like lead poisoning can cause retardation with social abnormal behavior.

Unlike a lot of the paranoia about medicine etc. this one is believed by a lot of doctors. However, most of us feel that the risk/benefit ration is worth it (kids die of measles, and one in ten thousand get encephalitis).

On line book about autism: AUTISM

For parents and relatives of autistic kids: Autism organization

8 posted on 06/22/2002 12:03:42 PM PDT by LadyDoc
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To: LadyDoc
I agree and so do physicians at every university pediatric program in the western United States. I feel that the "rising" case rate of "autism" is related to California's recognition of "autism as an entry diagnosis for Regional Center services.
9 posted on 06/22/2002 3:40:12 PM PDT by bonesmccoy
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To: rdavis84
There is a preservative called "thimerosal" which was used in many vaccines. The thimerosal in Recombivax and Engerix-B were at levels that, if dosed by FDA/CDC guidelines, actually suppassed the per kilogram body weight exposure limit for Mercury by EPA standards. Subsequently, the major medical organizations took one year to figure out that they should request the vaccine manufacturers to actually remove the mercury...

Can we all say it...

Collective Freeper..."DUHHHH!!!"

Special "Double DUHDUH" to the Clinton Administration officials in FDA and CDC who didn't realize that EPA mercury exposure limits were being violated by the initial ACIP recommendations.

I'm still waiting to see if anyone in organized medicine has enough truth and honesty to request funding for the retrospective analysis on the kids who got Hepatitis B vaccine at birth and one month.

10 posted on 06/22/2002 3:45:54 PM PDT by bonesmccoy
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To: rubbertramp
Thank you. BUMP for later read.
11 posted on 06/22/2002 3:57:56 PM PDT by conservative cat
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To: LadyDoc
This is more than just paying more attention to a problem...read the article I posted in post #2...

Dr. Thomas Verstraten., an epidemiologist hired by CDC to review data from the Vaccine Safety Datalink, which consisted of approximately 500,000 children from the North California Kaiser cohort. Dr. Verstraten found a "statistically significant connection" between thimerosal and tics, verbal delays and ADHD/ADD and autism.

Autism of the past looks different from the autism of today. There are actual changes in the mitochondria of many children diagnosed with autism today.

12 posted on 06/23/2002 4:55:03 AM PDT by rubbertramp
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To: bonesmccoy; LadyDoc
Revealed: more evidence to challenge the safety of MMR

By Lorraine Fraser (Filed: 16/06/2002) http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2002/06/16/nmmr16.xml&sSheet=/news/2002/06/16/ixnewstop.html

Scientists have found new evidence to support fears that the MMR vaccine is causing children to develop autism and bowel disease, The Telegraph can reveal today.

Specialists from Trinity College, Dublin, have detected the strain of measles virus used in the MMR jab in tissue samples from the inflamed intestines of 12 children, who each developed autism after receiving the injection.

The results will add further weight to claims that MMR may be responsible for a rapid rise in autism in children over the past decade.

The Department of Health has repeatedly dismissed concerns about its safety, saying epidemiological studies have failed to find a link to autism. It has infuriated worried parents by refusing to allow the alternative of single vaccines to be prescribed on the NHS.

The work was carried out by Prof John O'Leary, a pathologist with a record of important discoveries in the field of virology. Although the finding does not prove that the MRR jab caused autism and bowel disease in the children, it raises urgent questions about the vaccine's role in their condition.

None of the children concerned had shown any sign of disease beforehand. The discovery comes days after the Government seized on a new study to bolster its claims that the MMR vaccine is safe.

The review, from a commercial company which lists the Department of Health as one of its clients, did not, however, consider work published since 1998 by scientists concerned about MMR.

Prof. O'Leary's results have been made public in a précis of a scientific presentation released ahead of a meeting of the Pathological Society of Great Britain and Ireland next month. It was greeted with alarm by parents last night.

Jackie Fletcher, of the parents' group JABS, said the findings had profound implications and must be taken seriously. "We have parents shouting that these problems are occurring and what do the Government and health chiefs do - they keep their heads buried in old reports not designed to identify these problems," she said. "No one is listening. Why?"

Ann Hewitt, whose son Thomas, eight, has severe autism and bowel problems, learned earlier this year that Dr O'Leary had found measles virus in the boy's gut. She and scores of others who received the same news now want to know what is going on.

The new results follow a study by Prof O'Leary and his colleagues, reported in February, in which they found measles virus of unknown origin in gut biopsies from 75 of 91 autistic children with bowel problems.

Measles virus was found in only five of 70 normal youngsters. The team now claims that the new study corroborates their earlier work linking measles virus with the condition and "indicates the origins of the virus to be vaccine strain".

Last night Visceral, a charity set up to fund research into autism and bowel disease, called for MMR to be suspended until studies establish just what the vaccine-strain virus is doing. MMR, which contains live measles mumps and rubella virus, was launched in the UK in 1988 and is given to infants at 12-15 months and four years.

The samples tested in Dublin were from some of nearly 200 youngsters diagnosed with developmental disorder and "new variant inflammatory bowel disease" by doctors at the Royal Free Hospital, in London, where Dr Andrew Wakefield worked until he was ousted last December.

The controversy over MMR and autism began four years ago when Dr Wakefield and his colleagues reported in The Lancet on 12 children with autistic problems and bowel disease and revealed that the parents of eight of them had said their children regressed developmentally after receiving the MMR jab.

While the genetic code of the strain of measles virus used in MMR differs only minutely from that of the virus responsible for natural infections, Prof. O'Leary and his colleagues were able to use a commercially produced molecular probe to distinguish the two.

The probe was designed to detect a single difference in the genetic code of the viruses and to give off a fluorescent signal when it does so. The MMR row became so heated this year that Tony Blair, the Prime Minister - who has refused to say whether his two-year-old son Leo has had the MMR jab - accused Dr Wakefield and the media of "scaremongering" on the issue.

The chief medical officer, Professor Liam Donaldson, has indicated he would rather resign than abandon official policy on the three-in-one vaccine.

Dr Wakefield said last night: "Prof. O'Leary and colleagues have now provided what may prove to be the most important piece of evidence to date in the case against the MMR vaccine. Parents must at the very least be given a choice of single vaccines.

"Not to do so in the face of these data and all the other evidence we have now published would be negligent in the extreme. It is not acceptable to assume that this vaccine virus is an innocent bystander if your concern is for the safety of the children."

The Department of Health said that it had no plans to review the use of MMR. "This study, if true, does not prove that MMR causes the condition of autism just because the virus is present in the gut. Critical will be independent testing of the teams' samples, which has long been awaited," said a spokesman.

13 posted on 06/23/2002 5:10:16 AM PDT by rubbertramp
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To: rdavis84; Al B.
As you know, mercury is a neurological toxin. You would think a vaccine manufacturer would know this, wouldn't you?

Autism is rising at an epidemic rate in this country. Remember all that "for the children" stuff with the Clintons. Remember Rob Reiner talking about the wonders of a baby's brain. Meanwhile, early intervention...0-3 programs in this country have been savaged. Many parents who seek answers about their child's disability are shut down by managed care gatekeepers.

Recently talking to a young mother, she was informed by her doc that mercury had been taken out of the vaccines.....yeah...I doubt it. But that is probably what the doc had been told...and everyone trusts the doctor.

14 posted on 06/23/2002 5:24:25 AM PDT by rubbertramp
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To: parsifal
Parents who use heavy drugs during pregnancy, many times have babies with missing parts to their brain...some times no brain at all. I often wonder why there isn't an ad campaign for this as there is for drinking or smoking during pregnancy.

Most parents that I see that have autistic children are pillars of the community who follow doctor's regimen to the letter.

15 posted on 06/23/2002 5:29:25 AM PDT by rubbertramp
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To: rubbertramp
As you know, mercury is a neurological toxin. You would think a vaccine manufacturer would know this, wouldn't you?

You would think so. But when it comes to potentially neurotoxic agents as a by-product of something that is perceived as "good," people take a "see no evil" approach to the issue.

This is especially true of LEGAL psychiatric drugs.  The profession only looks into neurotoxicity questions when forced into it, and long after much damage has been done.  Even then, they acknowledge the problems and do nothing about it.

A perfect example is neuroleptics (antipsychotics).  It took them 2 decades to begin to acknowledge the neurological wreckage these drugs cause.  But even then, they simply put the appropriate warnings in the PDR and kept on truckin'.  Now in the last few years, we're beginning to hear the first whiffs of potential neurotoxicity problems with SSRIs.

Thanks for continuing to highlight this issue.  We need to know a lot more on this as well as progress on related issues such as the role of neurotoxic agents in Parkinsons and Alzheimer's.  When the U.S., with 5% of the world's population, produces 25% of the Alzheimer's patients, something is wrong.

16 posted on 06/23/2002 8:12:02 AM PDT by Al B.
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To: LadyDoc
That's interesting about the fever my autist son had alot of ear infections I always thought it was that. I always gave my son tylenal before all vacines so no fever would result from the vacine.
17 posted on 06/23/2002 8:22:17 AM PDT by is_russia_western
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To: LadyDoc
Boy am I glad you are not my doctor!
18 posted on 06/23/2002 9:11:02 AM PDT by DaRocksMom
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To: rubbertramp
The article you posted has been debunked for years. Wakefield no longer works for the research institution because the hypothesis was nonsensical and the massive public health studies do not support his opinion. There is simply no link between MMR and autism. The fact people like you keep posting this stuff reminds me of the UFO craze. MMR will cause autism when little green men walk from the White House!
19 posted on 06/24/2002 12:54:31 AM PDT by bonesmccoy
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To: bonesmccoy
I guess you doctors don't have to study statistics in college....just do what that pretty pharmacuetical saleswoman tells you and take your trip to Aruba every year.

The increase in reported Autism isn't due to increased screening...If anything. There is less screening going on. Teachers are tripping over these kids in schools. The only ones not recognizing this increase in autism stats are you bone-headed doctors.

20 posted on 06/25/2002 2:52:39 AM PDT by rubbertramp
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To: rubbertramp
Dear "rubbertramp",

If you are attempting to prove your point, you've certainly not done so. There is no empirical, clinical, or scientific study that correlates MMR and autism. I've reviewed the literature fully and the issue is about as moot as can be. The only individuals making this claim are liberals in the news media like at CBS 60 Minutes, NBC Dateline, ABC 20/20, and Time Magazine. None of these sources are credible and none have published any study that supports such conclusion. Instead, they have published meritless stories which create more stories and paint a political picture. Regretably, Dan Burton stands alone in his convictions. Autism has many causes, but MMR is certainly not one of them.

21 posted on 06/25/2002 4:14:32 AM PDT by bonesmccoy
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To: bonesmccoy
Liberals like the country of Japan?...MMR has been banned there since 1993. Why do you 'spose?

Japan Banned MMR

Go back to watching UFO's on Star Trek, bonesmccoy.

22 posted on 06/26/2002 4:53:46 AM PDT by rubbertramp
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To: rubbertramp
Get a clue "rubbertramp"... http://www.doh.gov.uk/mmr/
23 posted on 06/26/2002 9:10:17 AM PDT by bonesmccoy
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To: rubbertramp; bonesmccoy
Still at it? You were trying to scare people about MMR two years ago! And STILL Wakefield hasn't been able to reproduce his results.

Scientists have found new evidence to support fears that the MMR vaccine is causing children to develop autism and bowel disease, The Telegraph can reveal today.

Specialists from Trinity College, Dublin, have detected the strain of measles virus used in the MMR jab in tissue samples from the inflamed intestines of 12 children, who each developed autism after receiving the injection.

The results will add further weight to claims that MMR may be responsible for a rapid rise in autism in children over the past decade.

Prof. O'Leary's results have been made public in a précis of a scientific presentation released ahead of a meeting of the Pathological Society of Great Britain and Ireland next month. It was greeted with alarm by parents last night.

Look like someone forgot to ask Dr. O'Leary's opinion about all this. From this article:

    On 2 July 2002, however, Professor O'Leary rejected Dr Wakefield's interpretation of his work, insisting that it 'in no way establishes any link between the MMR vaccine and autism' (1). Indeed, he strongly recommended that parents should give their children MMR. O'Leary's judgement echoed that of other experts who had earlier dismissed Wakefield's claims for this research to the congressional committee in Washington. The first piece of evidence promising some support to the hypothesis advanced by Dr Wakefield in 1998 was thus discredited even before publication.

    Though Professor O'Leary himself denied that his work gave any support to the case against MMR, in the weeks leading up to the July Dublin meeting it was widely cited by anti-MMR campaigners. Throughout June 2002, reports of the impending publication of this research provided a major publicity boost to a campaign that had flagged since the Christmas 2001 furore over whether Tony Blair's son Leo had had his MMR jab (a period in which the uptake of MMR had shown signs of recovery). The hype surrounding the O'Leary paper reveals much about the modus operandi of the campaign and its leading figure, Dr Wakefield.

OOOPS!
24 posted on 07/09/2002 9:52:45 AM PDT by TomB
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To: TomB; bonesmccoy
However, as thiomersal contains mercury, both European and American regulatory authorities have recommended that vaccine manufacturers should phase out their use of thiomersal wherever possible, as a precaution. They have not recommended withdrawing any individual vaccines currently in use.

The above is from the post by bonesmccoy. Mercury is a neurotoxin. The vaccine manufacturers know this. They still do not want to get rid of it because it costs them a few bucks. No wonder the Japanese prefer measles to the risk of cognitive damage to otherwise perfect babies.

25 posted on 07/10/2002 4:51:03 AM PDT by rubbertramp
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To: rubbertramp; aruanan
Mercury is a neurotoxin.

And arsenic is a potent poison, yet it is also an essential trace element for life. What's your point?

There is no rational scientist anywhere that would say the toxicity of a substance is independent of dose. The dose makes the poison.

They still do not want to get rid of it because it costs them a few bucks.

Do you have proof of this or is this just a paranoid delusion? Do you think if the vaccine manufacturers were doing something so nasty, the dems in Congress wouldn't be all over them right now in the current anti-business climate?

No wonder the Japanese prefer measles to the risk of cognitive damage to otherwise perfect babies.

Actually, I believe they banned the use of a vaccine that used the Urabe strain of mumps,and that was associated with an increased risk of aseptic meningitis. And since there is no alternative combination vaccination licensed in Japan, they went back to the separate shots. So your comment is a lie, they are immunizing against measles, and they do not "prefer measles".

However, since you do seem to "prefer measles", here is a story sure to warm your heart; Italy hit by measles epidemic . 358 children had to be hospitalized, thirteen developed encephalitis, which can cause brain damage, 63 developed pneumonia, and 3 died. All becuse of low vaccination rates. How wonderful.

I take it since you seem to be so enthralled with Japan and their governemt, you approve of their gun control measures also?

26 posted on 07/10/2002 7:38:37 AM PDT by TomB
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To: rubbertramp
You're nuts. Please quote the entire discussion and post the exact reference. You are clearly out of the disinformation camp when you quote without any contextual discussion.

The point was that the vaccine manufacturers were already requested to remove the thiomerosal. EOM

27 posted on 07/10/2002 10:08:21 PM PDT by bonesmccoy
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To: bonesmccoy
That came from the article you posted, under the heading Thimerosol. If you don't read your postings, why should I?
28 posted on 07/12/2002 2:41:40 AM PDT by rubbertramp
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To: TomB
You have the logic of a gnat. I suppose you would let your kids suck on lead paint too. Oh no, Darwin award, you feed your kids arsenic.
29 posted on 07/12/2002 2:46:58 AM PDT by rubbertramp
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To: rubbertramp
You have the logic of a gnat. I suppose you would let your kids suck on lead paint too. Oh no, Darwin award, you feed your kids arsenic.

You do realize that if you let your children drink out of most sinks and water fountains, they are ingesting lead AND arsenic?

So why isn't everybody sick?

Because there are safe levels for everything. If you don't realize that you have no business telling us anything.

THE DOSE MAKES THE POISON.

30 posted on 07/12/2002 3:54:27 AM PDT by TomB
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To: TomB
I don't think there is any acceptable amount of heavy metal ingestion for babies...on top of what they are already getting in a polluted environment. You are off your noggin....probably a result of your warped philosophy. Go get a strand of your hair tested so that you don't wind up like Napoleon.
31 posted on 07/13/2002 6:05:40 AM PDT by rubbertramp
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To: rubbertramp
I don't think there is any acceptable amount of heavy metal ingestion for babies

I don't really care what "you think". You are wrong.

The ever increasing life expectancy and ever decreasing childhood disease rates prove that you are wrong.

32 posted on 07/13/2002 8:45:11 AM PDT by TomB
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To: rubbertramp
I say again... QUOTE the EXACT posting so I can respond.

If you can not quote and point to the exact posting, there is no basis for your ridiculous claims.

You should punt the ball before we score the safety.

33 posted on 07/13/2002 10:13:01 PM PDT by bonesmccoy
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To: bonesmccoy
Get a clue "rubbertramp"... http://www.doh.gov.uk/mmr/ 23 posted on 6/26/02 9:10 AM Pacific by bonesmccoy [ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies | Report Abuse ]

Look in the heading under thimersol....duh!

34 posted on 07/14/2002 3:58:22 AM PDT by rubbertramp
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To: Al B.; bonesmccoy; TomB
from: redflagsweekly.com

July 8, 2002

DOCS GET BONUS FOR GIVING MMR VACCINE

What Next? It seems that in the U.K., GPs have been getting payments for rounding up their patients for the MMR (measles, mumps, rubella) vaccine. If 90 per cent are vaccinated, they receive 2,865 pounds, but the payola drops to 955 pounds if only 70 per cent are vaccinated.

It seems now that the docs are concerned that they may be wrecking their credibility with their patients. Sure, especially since the MMR has become so controversial.

Let’s get this straight: they’ve been receiving extra money for vaccine targeting? Isn’t that a CONFLICT OF INTEREST? Or are British docs too dumb to understand that?

35 posted on 07/14/2002 5:04:01 AM PDT by rubbertramp
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To: rubbertramp
From the article I linked to above, and you obviously didn't read:

    Experts say a measles epidemic in Italy, which has killed three children, is a lesson to parents about the importance of vaccination. It is estimated more than 24,000 people could have been infected with measles.

    It is estimated more than 24,000 people could have been infected with measles.

    The three children who died were aged six months, four and 10.

    There were 981 reported cases of measles in the Campania region of southern Italy between January and May this year.

    Of those affected, 358 had to be hospitalised. Thirteen developed encephalitis, which can cause brain damage and 63 pneumonia.

    In Campania, where the largest city is Naples, only 53% of children have been vaccinated against measles by the age of two.

    OUTBREAK FEARS

    In the UK, latest figures show 84% are immunised by that age, compared to 92% in 1995.

    There have been 159 cases of measles so far this year, compared to the normal annual average of 100.

    After an increase in the number of cases of measles in London this year, some doctors warned their could be an outbreak there within the next two years if parents continue to reject MMR.

ANYTHING that they can do to get the number of vaccinated children up is a good thing. I'm amazed that you really seem to relish children suffering with preventable diseases.

Which vaccines do you think children should definitely get?

36 posted on 07/14/2002 5:45:59 AM PDT by TomB
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To: rubbertramp
This conflict of interest does not exist in the US at the physician level. The major medical academies do accept huge contributions from the pharmaceutical industry. However, these contributions do not exist in the medical office.

On the other hand, your ridiculous postings suggest that you are nothing but an anarchistic shrill, hysterical and panicked about the non-existant.

Obviously, fact has no place in your analyses.

37 posted on 07/14/2002 7:00:54 PM PDT by bonesmccoy
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To: rubbertramp
which heading and which posting... I've asked you twice already and you've still not chosen to point to the specific reference. If you choose to quote me, have the common decency to post the reference. Unless references are posted specifically, there is no way to permit us to refer back and assess your charges.
38 posted on 07/14/2002 7:02:16 PM PDT by bonesmccoy
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To: bonesmccoy
Wakefield no longer works for the research institution because the hypothesis was nonsensical and the massive public health studies do not support his opinion.

Just for the record in this fact-filled discussion, that's not what Dr. Wakefield said, nor is it what the hospital medical school said, according to this news report.

Anti-MMR doctor is forced out

39 posted on 07/15/2002 3:24:52 PM PDT by Al B.
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To: bonesmccoy
Your only post to me with a link was #23. Read what they say about Thimerosol. These arrogant bastards will remove it when they damn well feel like it. Meanwhile Dr. Smith tells unsuspecting mom, Mrs. Jones that Thimerosol has been removed from the vaccine. Lies from the World Disease Organization.
40 posted on 07/16/2002 3:10:29 AM PDT by rubbertramp
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To: TomB
I read your article and it has no merit.

A while ago, in this area, there was an outbreak of whooping cough. I knew many mothers who vaccinated their children and these children got whooping cough. I knew many mothers who because of religious reasons did not vaccinate their children against whooping cough. These children in the same area, going to the same schools did not come down with whooping cough.

The big lie is that these vaccinations actually protect against the disease. They don't. No where in that article do they say that those who were not innoculated against measles were the ones that got the disease.

We have pro-choice in so many things, why not vaccination. If the vaccine is so good, people will choose it on its own merits. The fact of the matter is that it is worse than the disease. Autism is a living death, in many cases.

41 posted on 07/16/2002 3:20:50 AM PDT by rubbertramp
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To: rubbertramp
FYI, here are Dr. Wakefield's prepared remarks before the Burton committee on June 19, which I thought were reasoned and not overreaching and indicative of someone who is objective.  As Dr. Wakefield himself has said in a letter printed in The Lancet, "we have published studies that both do, and do not support a role for measles virus in chronic intestinal inflammation: this is called integrity."  He then went on to say that his latest work was strongly implicative of MMR vaccines in autism and inflammatory bowel disease.

Those that seem to be screaming loudest against Wakefield's research are those that probably have a vested interest in doing so.  Read the first paragraph of Wakefield's House statement to see what I mean.

I was particularly interested in his comments from his testimony about the MMR re-challenge work that he has done.  Re-challenge studies are among the best tools a researcher has in associating cause with effect:


Re-challenge and biological gradient effects for MMR/MR vaccines

A further key piece of evidence comes from examination of “re-challenge” and “biological gradient” effects for possible vaccine-related adverse events.

Re-challenge refers to a situation where re-exposure of an individual to an agent (e.g. vaccine) elicits a similar adverse reaction to that seen following the initial exposure. The secondary reaction associated with re-challenge may either reproduce the features associated with the primary challenge, or may lead to worsening of the condition that was provoked or induced by the initial exposure.

During the course of our clinical investigation we have observed that some children who received a second dose of MMR, or boosting with the combined measles rubella (MR) vaccine, experienced further deterioration in their physical and/or behavioural symptoms following re-exposure. In a report of April 2001, the Vaccine Safety Committee of the US Institute of Medicine (IOM) stated that, in the context of MMR vaccine as a possible cause of this syndrome, “challenge re-challenge exposed would constitute strong evidence of an association”[1].

In the context of adverse vaccine reactions, a biological gradient refers to an increasing severity of, or increased risk of developing, a particular disease outcome. More severe bowel disease in children with regressive autism who had received more than one MMR/MR would be an example of this.

We have undertaken systematic evaluation of re-challenge and biological gradient effects in children with regressive autism who have undergone investigation at the Royal Free Hospital.

“Exposed” – children with normal early development & regressive autism who had received more than one MMR/MR - were compared with age and sex matched “unexposed” – children with normal early development & with regressive autism who had received only one MMR but otherwise similar baseline characteristics to the exposed group. Comparisons included: secondary (2o) developmental/behavioural regression; 2o physical deterioration, prospective, observer-blinded scores of endoscopic & microscopic disease severity.

In a preliminary analysis exposed children scored significantly higher than unexposed children for:

(i) secondary regression on the basis of analyses performed at the different levels, including :

q parental history

q excluding those whose secondary regression occurred following publication of the 1st suggested MMR-autism link in 1998; and,

q inclusion of only those for whom independent corroborative evidence of secondary regression was obtained from the records;

(ii) secondary physical symptoms;

(iii) presence of severe ileal lymphoid hyperplasia; and,

(iii) presence and severity of acute mucosal inflammation.

No measures of disease were worse in unexposed than exposed children.

These data identify a re-challenge effect on symptoms and a biological gradient effect on severity of intestinal inflammation that provide evidence of a causal association between MMR and regressive autism in these children.


Also of note is Dr. Arthur Krigsman's testimony.  Dr. Krigsman of NYU offered supporting evidence of Dr. Wakefield's findings in that he has observed the same pattern of bowel disease in children with regressive autism.  He plans to have the samples from his patient group independently tested for the presence of the measles virus.

Seems that the list of "quacks" supporting Dr. Wakefield is growing.

As I said to you on another thread, independent research into the CDC VSD database will be a critical factor in determining whether this journey Dr. Wakefield seems to be on is valid or just a wild goose chase.  This is especially so since there simply isn't going to be a mad rush to step forward and duplicate Wakefield's results.  Too many careers and too much vested interest to protect.

42 posted on 07/16/2002 9:09:27 AM PDT by Al B.
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To: rubbertramp
You make no sense. Thimerosal was removed from most vaccines over the last two years. Please point to the EXACT POSTING. I will not go searching hundreds of posts to locate the message YOU chose to note. Seeing how you haven't been able to post a quote or a reference, I think this is a dead donkey.
43 posted on 07/16/2002 1:08:59 PM PDT by bonesmccoy
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To: Al B.; TomB
It doesn't matter what Dr. Wakefield says. It matters what the rest of the research community in BOTH the UK and the USA say. The research data is complete and the clinical evidence is clear. Wakefield is incorrect.
44 posted on 07/16/2002 1:10:25 PM PDT by bonesmccoy
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To: rubbertramp
just do what that pretty pharmacuetical saleswoman tells you and take your trip to Aruba every year.

I got a trip to Aruba coming up in a couple of months, rubber. Wanna join me?;-)

45 posted on 07/16/2002 1:14:11 PM PDT by CholeraJoe
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To: bonesmccoy
It matters what the rest of the research community in BOTH the UK and the USA say.

Yeah sure. I remember in 1973 when NIMH researcher George Crane was called a quack by the research community when he was the lone voice writing about the neurotoxicity of antipsychotics. Today his "quack" views are enshrined in the PDR and the DSM.

Time will tell who's right. We need to hear more from independent researchers on this and less name-calling from the vested-interest "establishment."

46 posted on 07/16/2002 1:22:18 PM PDT by Al B.
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To: Al B.
Exactly how much money do you want to spend in research for this matter? You don't appear familiar with the studies. How many papers need to be written and how much public health work needs to be done to refute these strange assertions?

47 posted on 07/16/2002 2:05:58 PM PDT by bonesmccoy
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To: CholeraJoe
LOL. I am sure you earned your perks the old fashioned way...through hard work.

So shall we put it on Pfizers tab or Eli Lillys?

48 posted on 07/17/2002 5:00:14 AM PDT by rubbertramp
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To: rubbertramp
Pfizer's going to be a little strapped for cash what with the Pharmacia acquisition and all. Let's hit up Uncle Eli Lilly.
49 posted on 07/17/2002 5:44:18 AM PDT by CholeraJoe
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To: bonesmccoy
You don't appear familiar with the studies.

You're right, but you've definitely gotten me interested.

How many papers need to be written and how much public health work needs to be done to refute these strange assertions

According to you, none.  Tell you what, why don't you tell me what studies I need to read to come to the same conclusion you have.  I promise you I'll read them.  I can look them up, so don't go to too much trouble.  Just something descriptive enough that will allow me to find it.  Thx.

50 posted on 07/17/2002 7:56:40 AM PDT by Al B.
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