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To: Tribune7
What people say and what they do are two different things. A man may say he is a lawyer, but find himself in a mental institution, and we would not agree that he is a lawyer. Try reading "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich," and then, if you can be objective, come back to me and honestly tell me if you think the Nazi's nationalized the means of production. You will find that their Brownshirts were the primary means by which the ruling elite broke the German unionist movement and executed the leaders of the Socialist and Communist parties. Fascists are and will forever be the absolute opposite of socialists and communists, the party of the death throes of capitalism that arises to put down the radical socialists and communists that always arise and gain increasing power when a capitalist country is in crisis. For heaven's sake, read a bit about what really happens under these people before you form your judgments. Their propaganda is irrelevant. If it were not, I would jump on the communist train with all due speed: no government at all! Sounds like heaven on earth.
219 posted on 06/26/2002 8:41:18 PM PDT by stryker
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To: stryker
Try reading "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich," and then, if you can be objective, come back to me and honestly tell me if you think the Nazi's nationalized the means of production.

If you want to say Germany under the Nazis had de facto rather than de jure socialism, that's fine, but the Nazis were socialists. You've read my reasoning. The Social Democratic Labor Party has ruled Sweden for most of the last century. They never nationalized the means of production. The SDLP is considered a socialist party.

You're insisting on a very narrow definition of "nationalized," anyway. Hitler's Germany was a police state. There was no habeas corpus. There was no appeal to an arrest by the Gestapo. You don't think this atmosphere of terror influenced business decision making? Saying the Nazis didn't "nationalize" the means of production is sort of like saying the mob didn't control the Dune's Casino because an attorney's name was on the deed.

I've read the Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, by the way.

220 posted on 06/26/2002 9:27:26 PM PDT by Tribune7
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To: stryker
Fascists are and will forever be the absolute opposite of socialists and communists

Stryker, I don't think you have to be particularly well-read to see that this statement is false.

Fascists and socialists are and will forever be sworn enemies; but they are not and have never been absolute opposites.

Fascism and communism are both anti-liberal, anti-individual, anti-freedom. They are both scavengers picking at the carcass of faltering or failed capitalism, and in this they have a profound commonality.

The only way you can declare them to be "absolute opposites" is to absolutely discard that which they absolutely have in common, which is their disdain for the sovereignty of the individual.

221 posted on 06/26/2002 10:02:01 PM PDT by Yardstick
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