"THAT which you believe"---"An open letter to Republicans"

6/23/02 | redrock

[redrock]

"This is free ground. All the way from here to the Pacific Ocean. No man has to bow. No man born to royalty. Here we judge you by what you do, not by who your father was. Here you can be something. Here's a place to build a home. It isn't the land--there's always more land. It's the idea that we all have value, you and me, we're worth something more than the dirt. I never saw dirt I'd die for, but I'm not asking you to come join us and fight for dirt. What we're all fighting for, in the end, is each other."

What is it that you believe???

A real question....since so many times on this forum, and others, the Republican 'mantra' has become a simple one.

Defeat the Democrats..whatever the cost..the Democrats are the enemy...(sort of Orwellian in it's simplicity)..repeated time after time...and anyone who dares to ask questions of George Bush's policies and actions is loudly shouted down.

But here's a 'news flash' for ya.......It may be that the Democratic Senators...Representitives.....leaders ARE the enemy of maintaining a Constitutional Republic.

But...the average member of the Democratic Party...is not.

The average member of the Democratic Party is just brainwashed..(for want of a better word)...

Just like the average member of the Republican Party is in danger of becoming.

"This is a party, this Republican Party, a Party for free men, not for blind followers, and not for conformists. "

So..I'll ask my very simple questions once again......

And Republicans who wish to rant and rave about 'third party' this or that...go right ahead.

But George W. Bush barely won the last election.....

You NEED staunch conservatives ( nowadays I guess we would be considered 'radical'.....) to help re-elect him....and others of the party..

CONVINCE us.........that at a certain point you will be willing to fight for 'old time values'.....

CONVINCE us ...that you have not become slavish followers of GWB...in much the same way as some did with Clinton....that you will ask the 'hard questions' (and demand the answers).

CONVINCE us.......and you will not do so by the constant dismissal of our very real concerns.

CONVINCE us.......

-----------------

So where do we 'draw the line'????

Should we elect rapists or murderers...if they are members of the Republican Party..and could 'help retake the Senate'???

At what point do you say 'this far and no further'???

Must every single American 'prostitute' themselves in order for one political party (one which on CLOSE examination is no different than the other one) to 'control' government???

I have certain values and beliefs...based upon my Belief in God.

Should I just throw those Beliefs and Values away...and close my eyes....just so the Republicans can win???

The basis of this Nation is a hardcore belief that the values and ideals (sorry to use that word..ideals...seems that word anymore has the same effect on Republicans as a Cross does to evil) that founded this Nation are important....

[redrock]

Just some thoughts......from an insomniac conservative....

redrock

[redrock]

Just some questions...

redrock

[redrock]

Just some questions...

redrock

[redrock]

Just some questions...

redrock

[Khepera]

What, pray tell, are the answers?

[redrock]

ONLY you can answer that....for yourself.

redrock

[redrock]

"People who think this country will collapse without the existence of Republicans or Democrats have no faith in themselves or the strength of a constitutional republic."

Couldn't AGREE more.

redrock

[Bump in the night]

Good one, redrock! I'll be watching this thread too. I'd like to hear the answers as well.

[JZoback]

Whew, I'm glad I'm a Constitutionist rather than a Republican.

Tough questions

I'm registered (R) just to vote in the primaries

[sinclair]

What makes a Republican myrmidon any different from a Democrat myrmidon?

At all times question authority. Questioning political positions is not the same as defying political positions and very healthy politically. At the very least it keeps the rulers questioning their own authority to rule.

[Japedo]

Your post is right on the Mark!!

I salute you for taking this stand, of which so many of us take.. I too wait for the Answers!!

[Khepera]

Who has ever been prosecuted for enacting policies contrary to the constitution? How many of our elected officials have violated the constitution? Has ever 1 thing been done to punish those who are threats to our Rights or constituional provisions?

Lets hear some names of violators and their crimes so that we may act!

[Darth Sidious]

CONVINCE us ...that you have not become slavish followers of GWB...in much the same way as some did with Clinton....that you will ask the 'hard questions' (and demand the answers).

I'm sooooo tempted to ping the Bushbots about this one.

[tricky_k_1972]

The problem is your asking a question that has the conclusion already built into it.

Of course as a Republican I do not support violations of the Constituin, my freedoms, or my beliefs. I will do whatever I can to make sure my party holds on to those beliefs, but your not asking me that your asking in a round about way, when will I give up my Party for something "better" and my anwser is never. Instead I will work to make it better. Trying to form some other party that only restates the beliefs of the one I'm already a part of will never work and all you'll end up doing is electing the party that you relly hate.

The Republican party has gone through some rough times in the past, and I admit this one is a bigge, but we have gotten through and are better for it.

So I've got a question for you, when are you going to work to make the party better by either running for election or helping to elect those whithin the party who support your beliefs.

[DoughtyOne]

Republicans have a hard time.  I think they have a harder time than the Democrats, because the Democrats have basicly sold their souls to further their agenda.  Witness the defense of Clinton, his criminality, his licivious behavior, his sellout of the nation, his debased human condition.  I think Bush supporters and those of us who are not sold on him would agree, that above all else, we DO NOT want to become a group of people who will support OUR MAN through anything to maintain power.  However, in the interest of civility, I want it known that I do not think Bush supporters have reached the level of Clinton supporters.  Bush being the honorable man that he is, how could they.

At least we are asking the question of how much will we tollerate.  As a non-Bush supporter, I salute the Bush supporters who are honest.  There are some who are willing to accept that Bush makes mistakes and weigh them.  I say fine.  I may disagree with their overall take, but at least they are thinking.  Clinton supporters were so far gone, they never asked of themselves question one.

What we each have to assess for ourselves is how far we are willing to go.  After assessing each individual act by Bush, we must take them collectively and determine if he is the man we thought he was.  Hey those who do not support Bush should be doing this.  Those who support him should be also.  And we should decide not to slam each other for our individual decisions.  Non-Bush supporters such as myself should be willing to go back into the fold if Bush can prove that we have misjudged him.  And Bush supporters should be willing to reassess as well.

Now, as to individual decisions, I will not slam someone who honestly thinks Bush has made his mistakes but that he is overall a very good President.  I might slam someone who fawns on the man to the point that they will not accept the fact that he can do any wrong.  My candidate could do wrong.  Clinton could do wrong.  Even George Bush can do wrong.  And he has.  What it all comes down to, is this.  In four or eight years, will this nation's budget be smaller?  Will our education system have turned back toward the right and have made marked progress?  Will we have turned the corner on the demise of our defense forces?  And most importantly of all, will our individual rights we in tact?  Will we have more or less freedom, more or less civil rights protection than we did when Bush took office?  If the answers to these questions is no, or you aren't sure, then Houston, we have a problem.

I would like to encourage both sides to debate these issues.  Knock off the name calling which I have participated in as much as the next guy.  Discuss the Republican and third party issues.  See if there is some commen ground.  Quit asking the next guy if he's made as many phone calls, sent as man faxes, attended as many rallies or donated as much money as you have.  Quit dismissing people because they supported someone who lost last time.  You loss may be coming.  Dismissing you wouldn't be productive either.

Folks, we need to find some common ground.  These thousand or two reply threads where we trade insults and try to outlast the other guy are non-productive exercises in mutual self-destruction.  Let's stop it.  It was unproductive before the 2000 elections.  It will unproductive in-between elections.  It will be unproductive when the next elections occur.  Let's work together and get through this.

Bush supporters, we third party supporters can be real a.h.s at times.  And since your man won the election you have been too.  Whatya say we agree to disagree and try to find some common ground.  You are going to need every vote you can get in 2004.  In 2002 we have important races where we ALL need to work together.  I know in my state California, we must get behind Simon and do everything possible to get him in.  It's very important.  We have state and local races across the nation that will be decided this November.  They are as important as the Simon race.  Let's carry on our debates in a civil manner.  Don't key off on every single comment made by us third partiers, and we'll try not to key off on each of yours.

As adults we should be able to put the animosity behind us and discuss issues on point.  If you disagree, simply say I disagree.  You don't have to say, you f----- a----ole, you're an idiot.  Just say you disagree.

Let's put aside our trash talk and work toward giving Bush his Republican Senate.  Then let the man put up or shut up for the following two years.  I'd say that's a fair test we can all get behind.

To the Bush supporters I have tweaked, hey sorry.  I don't hold grudges.  Let's work together.  Then we'll see how things shake out.

[Nick Danger]

Trent Lott personifies my dilemma on this issue. There is no one I would less like to see as Senate Majority Leader. Except Tom Daschle.

In the real world, those are my choices. I don't like that my alternative to Tom Daschle is Trent Lott. I think Trent Lott is a worthless, spineless, blow-dried empty suit, who -- if the Republicans do re-take the Senate -- will let Tom Daschle run the place anyway, just as he did before Jeffords switched sides. I cannot express enough contempt for Trent Lott in this family forum. However, does that mean I would rather have Tom Daschle instead, just for spite?

I had my bout with spite. I had it in 1992, and my reward was eight years of William Jefferson Clinton. Lots of us showed ol' man Bush just what we thought about 'read my lips.' Sumbitch can't keep a promise, we'll show him, we'll vote for Ross Perot.

Been there, done that, got the stained dress. Never again.

[steve50]

Well said. The Constitution is all that protects us, the least we could do is return the favor.

[Dick Bachert]

ALL men lose when freedom fails and good men rot in filthy jails. And those who cry "Appease, appease..." are hanged by those they sought to please.

[redrock]

"Your asking for a line in the sand from a politician is wasted time."

NOT asking for answers from politician's.......they change their mind as often as some people change underwear.

But I AM asking the 'regular' guy...

redrock

[redrock]

Thank You.

redrock

[tricky_k_1972]

Thank you,

I've heard these rants all to often and they don' accomplish anything. people need to get off their buts and DO Something to help the party get back to its foundations, Not win the other parties elections for them.

[broomhilda]

First it is not a Democratic party. It is the Democrat party. Second this country is a Republic not a Democracy. In a democracy the majority rule. Majority rule is mob rule. Mob rule is CHAOS. "The cornerstone of the Republican philosophy is the belief that each person is responsible for their own place in our society. Individuals are encouraged by the Republican Party to work to secure the benefits of society for themselves, their families and for those who are unable to care for themselves. Democrats are more willing to subordinate individual rights to the assumed needs of the group. They assume that society collectively is responsible for each of its members. They place less emphasis on individual enterprise and initiative."
"Republicans believe that government should be limnited to doing for people those things which they cannot do for themselvwes. The right to determine individual destiny should lie in the hands of the individual. Similarly, Republicans believe governmental power and resources should be kept close to the people through their state and community leaders, rather than cetralized in distant big government." I am not that smart. This is from material put out by the California Republican Party, titled "Is there a difference?"
You can get the whole thing from The California Republican Party, 1903 West Magnolia Blvd., Burbank, CA 91506 or at www.cagop.org. You can also pick it up at any Republican registration table in So. California, at the mall where the Republican Women are registering Republicans for the 2002 election. If you don't know why you should be a Republican after you read it I only have one comment. Ignorance can be cured, stupidity is forever.

[redrock]

So sorry..it's not a 'rant'......

It's asking some questions...questions that some Republican's don't want to answer.

But by all means.....ignore all of us that have problems with GWB....and when he is not re-elected....I am sure we will hear from all of you as to why we didn't vote for him.

..and I'll bring some cheese to go with you whine.

redrock

[DoughtyOne]

When the Republicans take back the Senate, Lott has got to go. I've never agreed with anything more that you have intimated Nick. His allowing the other side to run the show was absolute pansiism at it's worst. The term spineless is actually a compliment to this shell of a man. Go Don Nickles.

[Japedo]

When the Republicans take back the Senate, Lott has got to go.

I think the RINO's have to go Period. They are crippling this party. IMHO

[tricky_k_1972]

I did answer your question in post 16, you just didn't like it. Again what do you propose and how will it work? I'm not GWB koolaid drinker. I know he has problems, but I also know the alternative has NOTHING in common with my beliefs. I will continue to work within my party to immprove it. What will you do?

[DoughtyOne]

Yes, it's time to send the Lotts and Jeffords packing. Give me men who'll stand up to clintonian ways.

[Japedo]

what people fail to realize is a RINO is a Masked "D", a socialist to the core.

Because the Republican party is a majority of RINOS we have the mess we are into day. I Have drawn the line. NO more Rinos.. they are not for the better.. they are enablers to the leftist landslide of leftist policy's as I see it, A Danger to the Party, and a Danger to a Truly Free Republic.

[blackie]

Hi Redrock, I like your questions.
First off, I'm not a Republican, I'm an Independent so the questions aren't directed to me.
I'll answer them anyway...

I've supported GWB from the get-go and I will until the end of his term in office: six plus years from now...
I like the guy, he ain't perfect, who is...the last perfect person was hung on a cross, jabbed in the side with a spear and given vinegar to drink.

GWB wants the same things we all want, there will be no overnight transformation of the Ship Of State.
It has taken many years to get in the position we're in and short of a revolution, it will take quite a few more for a metamorphosis to take place.

We have to have a goal, enroll others in that goal and do something today that will forward the action to accomplish that goal.
Take risks, step outside of the (box of options) "box" and create.

Freedom Is Worth Fighting For !!

Molon Labe !!

[seenenuf]

..do something..?

Easiest thing to 'do', is to drive my 'freerepublic.com'
bumper sticker around town. The second easiest thing is to not be afraid to disagree with a Socialist idea, that is presented within a conversation. Lost a couple of 'friends' that way. They wanted to stay ignorant, so be it.

[savedbygrace]

What if millions of registered Republicans changed their affiliation to Democrat and voted the incumbent Dim out of office in the primary?

If pubbies in four or five states did this, it could xhange the balance of power.

Nah, sounds like something Dims would do.

[tricky_k_1972]

Socialist Idea?

Sorry, I missed something in the translation. Please explain.

[DoughtyOne]

Trent Lott is a man with no core principles. Then are are others who do lean left like Jeffords. They are both worthless. Give me ten good men with fire in the belly. They'll spark the rest. We are currently lacking those men. As far as I am concerned Hastert is as bad as Lott. If he can't lead he should get out of the way. The Speaker of the House should be leading the nation. During the Clinton years he was the titular head of the Republicans, the closest we had to the throne. Utter silence was all he could muster. Today he's quite because we have a Republican President. But he could be more publicly supportive. THE BOOT!

[tricky_k_1972]

Let me be first say"BRING BACK NEWT"

Thank you.

[Randjuke]

Doughty, you must have got a good night's sleep, your post 17 makes a lot of sense (also the ones about getting rid of Lott). As one of the many you were tweaking on that marathon thread of last night, I like the idea of finding common ground but it seems many on both sides are not ready for that, and I confess I don't know how to change that. Your post is a good start, though.

[Nick Danger]

people need to get off their buts and DO Something to help the party get back to its foundations

I think that in turn comes back to the voters. In the end, "the party" is just a bunch of people trying to get elected. The reason there are so many RINOs is that there are so many people who vote for RINOs.

I believe that we are winning this struggle, but it is a long, slow process. It is essentially a struggle against a media establishment that has chosen to become the propaganda arm of our political opponents. From Global Warming to Tailwind to feminist claptrap, all that most people have heard for many decades is the liberal spin on events. That is now starting to change... partly because of the Internet, and partly because of Rush Limbaugh -- whose success demonstrated to Rupert Murdoch that there was a huge unserved market out there that could be as easily tapped via television as by radio. That gave us Fox News, whose roaring ratings success is finally causing the ground to crack around the leftist media monolith that for too long controlled almost everything people read or heard in this country.

I think half the battle is just having media outlets of size with which to get our side of the story out. Conservatives have not had that. The Internet has turned out to be a big surprise in this area... it's a much more influential medium than people saw coming, and we here at Free Republic have been a big part of that. People rant about "keyboard cowboys" not doing anything, but I think that except for our serious kookburgers, we provide a reasonable place where people on the fence can hear a side to stories that they're not going to get from their AP-supplied newspaper, and certainly not from Dan Rather and his ilk. I think this has value.

To me, a big part of "getting the party back to its foundations" is continuing to pound away at the voters... giving them a side to the news that they haven't heard -- and won't hear -- from the Press Democrat. My belief is that half of the population is fundamentally, natively hard-wired to accept conservative politics if they hear it well-articulated. For many years they had not. But now we, right here on FR, can participate in the media revolution that is finally giving conservative politics a voice that can be heard. Let the CNN's and the ABC's continue to stack their news shows with Clinton cronies and DNC hacks; they are no longer the only game in town, and they can no longer do these things without suffering for it. Let's help them suffer.

Where the voters go, the party will go. My suspicion is that most of the people who vote for RINOs are native, hard-wired conservatives who vote the way they do because they live in a sea of liberal media; they are as far to the right as a liberal media ever articulates. Bring them less liberal media, and they will move right. Let them hear conservative policies described as something other than the heartless throwing of widows and orphans into the street, and they will vote for these policies.

Move the RINOs and we move the party. I really think it's that simple.

[tricky_k_1972]

Amen, couldn't have said it better.

[christine]

great post! thanks for the alert!

:) i haven't had time to read the thread yet, but i'm sure the battle is in progress.

[christine]

very well said, do! ;)

[ImpBill]

The bots will come out of the woodwork on this one buddy.

You hit the nail on the head.

I left the GOP after the Impeachment Trial joke. 32 years of work, money, and votes for the GOP as a loyal party member.

When the "leaders" of the party became willing to openly trade honor and integrity for "political capital and power" I accepted the fact that I could vote for whomever I wished as a citizen not aligned with any "party".

Someone else stated he registered GOP so he could vote in primaries. I have gotten to the point that it really doesn't matter. I vote on election day for the candidate the most meets my beliefs. Granted it will usually be a Republican but they can't count on either my vote or my physical/financial support any longer.

The GOP as a political party is so similar to the DemocRATs. And the NEW BASE of the GOP is likewise the same as the base of the Democrats in that anything done to acquire political capital and power is OK.

Don't kid yourself the NEW BASE of the GOP only wants conservatives around on election day for their votes. They know they can't win without us but once the election is passed they can't distance themselves fast enough from us.

[christine]

anyone who wants off of my ping list, please let me know! ;)

[ImpBill]

Lott/Hastert .... Hastert/Lott ....

Not much difference. In fact most of the "out front" leaders of the GOP, including GW Bush, could care less about "principled conservatism".

I said it before and will risk repeating it. The base of the GOP is no longer conservative ... it is "pragmatists". They wear their conservatism like a coat and remove it whenever the heat gets to be too much.

The "pragmatic" base of the GOP would really like to see the "conservatives" disappear from the political scene.

[seenenuf]

So a translation is requested. Sorry I typed/thought in code. L0L.
Fighting Socialistic ideals, is part and parcel of what Republicans do, but to varing degrees of success.
President Bush being the leader in that work, has failed free trade in steel. He is pounding away at school testing schools, though he wants vouchers and couldn't achieve same. But, he will survived to fight another day.

Medicine and education, are now failing to provide because of prevailing Socialist ideals - being inflicted by Dems and the unions, the most out-dated and destructive force in the USA, short of the 'living wage'.
I remain hard nosed, within a conversation with a thinking Voter, and usually the conversation changes before I want it to, but, it is something that I can DO.
Those free pills and doctoring that AARP fights for is socialized medicine. Rich retireds don't want to spend
their money on their own healthcare, thus they and their
kids are loosing out on the best possible card. I find that disgusting. The Dims probably do also,, but a vote is a vote to them.
A senior discount for a seat in a movie, means that the rest of us pay more. That is Socialism, and it is robs the kids trying to get ahead. It is pervasive in everything.

Socialistic charity and means-testing should not be politically incorrect words.

So many Republicans will fight and write and fret for a perfect conservative world. There is a bigger immediate battle. We have taught the world how to do Capitalism, but we can loose it with impatience for the perfect politician.

I don't think there is a dimes worth difference in the opinions expressed on this thread, just a difference in how it is expressed, and finally a waste of time in refining and defining our ideals. Think I'll go find a
non-believer to talk with.

[Theodore R.]

Hastert is supposed to be some kind of wrestler. One would never know it considering how weak he is in leadership skills. I suspect that fewer than 15 percent of the American people even know who is his, where he is from, or what he does. It's really like there is no Speaker right now. I imagine that he is glad G.W. gets all the attention.

[PoppingSmoke]

The majority of American do not belong to either party. This is the ground that both parties actively attempt to recruit from. One day a leader will rise that will be the popular President. One day. When the steeple get tired of the daily oats feed to them. Until then it's spin, spin, spin. Hopefully, it will not be after all hell has broken out. You in this forum should be thankful. Your informed no matter what your political ideology is. There are tons of people out there who really have no clue. Scary as it sounds, they are the majority.

God Save the Republic.

[VinnyTex]

I left the GOP after the Impeachment Trial joke

What joke? In order to convict in the senate, 67 Senators are needed. The GOP had 54-55. As one Democrat Senator said, "we don't care if you have Clinton on tape raping a Nun, we're not going to vote to convict."

End of story. You can bitch all you want, but that's the facts jack.

[thrcanbonly1]

Thanks for ping

[Luis Gonzalez]

"I had my bout with spite. I had it in 1992..."

The legacy of those "principled conservatives" who broke from the GOP in 1992 to stand by their convictions, will forever be known as the Clinton presidency.

Most are not as willing to admit it as you have...it takes a big man.