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Bush Middle East Speech Discussion Thread

Posted on 06/24/2002 12:48:28 PM PDT by RCW2001

Bush Middle East Speech Discussion Thread


TOPICS: Breaking News; Government; Israel
KEYWORDS:
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To: Amelia
Perhaps you're unaware of the scores of lawsuits filed against the Bush-McCain-Feingold-Meehan-Shays campaign finance reform bill?
801 posted on 06/24/2002 5:45:35 PM PDT by holdonnow
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To: Wild Irish Rogue
Fineman stole my words.............I posted here immediately after the speech that it came close to the speech the President gave after 9/11.

Thanks for watching chrissy for us......I just can't bear to watch him.

802 posted on 06/24/2002 5:45:56 PM PDT by OldFriend
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To: lavrenti
Maybe that is the idea. Force them to make official their turn to a terrorist govt, then destroy them. Their choice, freedom or death.

Just a thought.
803 posted on 06/24/2002 5:45:57 PM PDT by Diddle E. Squat
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To: holdonnow
What part of the President's speech in which he says that the current leadership is contaminated by dealing with terrorists, and that they need NEW leadership, do you not see?

Or is it that you require that he chastise Powell personally in public? (By the way, that is a guaranteed disaster.)

804 posted on 06/24/2002 5:46:25 PM PDT by Miss Marple
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To: Nix 2
No, he endorsed a Palestinian state. Perhaps you weren't listening today, or the numerous other occasions he and Powell of repeated this. It's his "vision" thing ...
805 posted on 06/24/2002 5:46:42 PM PDT by holdonnow
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To: holdonnow
And you can continue to take the comments and arguments out of context, as I suppose you're used to people beating up on Rush, Sean and me without a response, but not tonight.

Good for you. You're still The Great One.

806 posted on 06/24/2002 5:46:48 PM PDT by truthkeeper
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To: OldFriend
As far as rush, levin, and sean are concerned.......nothing this president does is quite conservative enough for their personal taste.

What has been "conservative enough" for your tastes? Could you list three items?

[Unconfirmed appointments don't count.]

ML/NJ

807 posted on 06/24/2002 5:47:19 PM PDT by ml/nj
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To: lavrenti
And you are expecting mark to face reality? You stated the facts clearly and thanks much for that light of sanity tonite.
808 posted on 06/24/2002 5:47:48 PM PDT by OldFriend
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To: majordivit
After the GW plan is enacted and Israel retreats to pre 67 borders

You have it quite backwards, MajD. Barbarians will not become a democracy. And Israel won't ever retreat to pre anything.
However, if I was Bashar right now, I'd be looking for a new destiny, and I don't mean with Jesse Lee.

809 posted on 06/24/2002 5:47:48 PM PDT by Nix 2
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To: Howlin
I didn't say they liked it .. I just said they seem to think the President was supporting Israel

I was really disappointed not to see Chris Matthews on the show tonight ..

As much as I have enjoyed reading this thread .. I have to go back to pretending I am a good mom and spend some time with the kiddies ..

BBL

810 posted on 06/24/2002 5:48:07 PM PDT by Mo1
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To: Miss Marple
I thought you went to bed. Thanks for advice. Have you called into any radio shows lately?
811 posted on 06/24/2002 5:48:34 PM PDT by holdonnow
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To: ml/nj
Tax Cut, Kyoto, world court
812 posted on 06/24/2002 5:49:09 PM PDT by Texasforever
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To: Diddle E. Squat
No doubt the same 70 percent which supported Clinton while he committed treason by selling all of America's secrets to enemy red china in exchange for campaign cash. No doubt the same 70 percent which supported Clinton when he molested an intern in the oval office.

Actually, GW's 70 percent support is more a symptom of nervous anxiety that most Americans have about the war against Islam..which it really is..Americans want to show a strong unified front against this terrible threat. Unfortunately, most Americans have been well trained by GW that Islam means peace. We are all trained like dogs now...woof woof woof....

813 posted on 06/24/2002 5:50:08 PM PDT by majordivit
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To: holdonnow
Ha! You think you would get rid of me that easily! I am not giving up.

I call local talk radio a lot. It seems a bit more to my taste than the national shows.

814 posted on 06/24/2002 5:51:33 PM PDT by Miss Marple
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To: holdonnow
The case was made last week, the week before that, and months earlier, when babies were targeted and shot to death in their beds by terrorists. You insist, like others, that Bush was laying down the law. Just leave the Israelis alone and they'll defend themselves. Stop the Secretary of State from recognizing Arafat as the legitimate leader of the Palestinians. Stop the US representative at the UN from sponsoring resolutions condemning Israel's acts of self-defense.

So what is REALLY stopping Israel? Do they think we'd bomb them to Kingdom Come if they defended themselves? What's really making them stop, if it's what they think they ought to do? (Last I heard, I thought there was some disagreement in the Knesset about what the proper response should be?)

815 posted on 06/24/2002 5:51:37 PM PDT by Amelia
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To: Howlin
LOL........but what are we to do with the fact that the ISRAELI'S LIKE THE PRESIDENT'S PLAN!!!

Just a little minor fact that seems to have escaped 'certain' intellectuals......like mark.

816 posted on 06/24/2002 5:51:48 PM PDT by OldFriend
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To: Nix 2
That's my point. Let me walk you through this. The libs were cited to me as saying that Bush gave a pro-Israel speech. I then asked what does that mean, i.e., who cares. So, when you write I'm taking my lead from the libs, you've completely missed the point. Dope.
817 posted on 06/24/2002 5:51:58 PM PDT by holdonnow
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To: OldFriend
You have mail
818 posted on 06/24/2002 5:52:43 PM PDT by Texasforever
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To: holdonnow
It's his "vision" thing ...

Illusions is more like it. He endorsed a democracy. No democracy, no end to the vision. Illusion. You're a smart guy. Get with the program. Powell is a showhorse for State. I actually think that the last time Bush sent him to see Arafat, it was taking him to the woodshed. Powell looked the fool, not Bush. Powell doesn't call the shots.

819 posted on 06/24/2002 5:53:03 PM PDT by Nix 2
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To: holdonnow
Just leave the Israelis alone and they'll defend themselves. Stop the Secretary of State from recognizing Arafat as the legitimate leader of the Palestinians. Stop the US representative at the UN from sponsoring resolutions condemning Israel's acts of self-defense.

Sir or Madam,
I agree with most of the above with the exception, I believe its in America's best interests to be fully supportive of Israel.
820 posted on 06/24/2002 5:53:12 PM PDT by pyx
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To: holdonnow
Stop the Secretary of State from recognizing Arafat as the legitimate leader of the Palestinians. Stop the US representative at the UN from sponsoring resolutions condemning Israel's acts of self-defense.

I think that was the point of the speech that we're discussing.

821 posted on 06/24/2002 5:53:32 PM PDT by denydenydeny
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To: bvw
Maybe a dose of freedom should be tried.Would you rather drop napalm everywhere? Exercises in democratic governments need to be tried in the Middle East.
822 posted on 06/24/2002 5:53:48 PM PDT by habs4ever
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To: majordivit
We are all trained like dogs now...woof woof woof....

I hope you are on your newspapers.

823 posted on 06/24/2002 5:54:18 PM PDT by Texasforever
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To: holdonnow
OK. Now you are calling someone a "dope." At what point are we to conclude that you feel like you can avoid the "no personal attacks " modicum. I apologized for my coment to you. Where is your apology for all the insults you have thrown at a variety of people?
824 posted on 06/24/2002 5:54:35 PM PDT by Miss Marple
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To: Texasforever
woof woof woof....

Thats my line

825 posted on 06/24/2002 5:55:34 PM PDT by woofie
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To: ml/nj
John Ashcroft, tax cuts, NO embryo research, school testing, right to keep and bear arms.......will five do?
826 posted on 06/24/2002 5:56:03 PM PDT by OldFriend
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To: Miss Marple
Where is your apology for all the insults you have thrown at a variety of people?

Let him go, I want to see him in total melt down.

827 posted on 06/24/2002 5:56:17 PM PDT by Texasforever
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To: holdonnow
Is that really any different that the Taiwan situation? We've been acting as if there was or soon will be a Palestinian state for years, else how could Clinton almost negotiate such agreements? So Bush ended a doublespeak, but by doing so he got to define conditions for recognition of the state. Which it is doubtful they will live up to or even meet. And once defined, all the easier to wall off and force migration to(though Israel has stated that practically total segregation of the Palestinians is not possible.)

I understand(and also felt) the anger and disappointment of recognizing(and thus giving a form of credibility) to this terrorist state. Yet if 3/4+ of the Palestinians view Arafat as their leader, if all the other countries recognize it in some form or fashion, then not that much is lost by us doing so. We recognize N. Korea, Iran, Iraq, etc., yet there is a real chance that we might attack and perhaps even destroy one or more of them. To me this seems to be only a short-term hollow victory at most for the Palestinians.(Though personally I would have preferred he not give even that much, but perhaps there is an endgame that justifies this move.)
828 posted on 06/24/2002 5:56:28 PM PDT by Diddle E. Squat
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To: JDelinis; All
BTW -- Account12 a friend of mine was banned because of his post -- not supporting the President.

327 posted on 6/24/02 4:55 PM Eastern by JDelinis

As I mentioned above, he was banned for having multiple accounts.

But then, you already knew that.

account8
Account # 76572
Signup 2002-01-15
Messages 15 articles, 6 replies
Status Deleted

account11
Account # 77762
Signup 2002-02-08
Messages 3 replies
Status Banned

account12
Account # 78015
Signup 2002-02-13
Messages 37 articles, 51 replies
Status Banned

ConservativeGuy
Account # 68393
Signup 2001-09-21
Messages 107 articles, 79 replies
Status Banned

All of these were the same person. Two of these had been disposed of earlier. Two, conservativeguy and account12 were not.

From ConservativeGuy's profile:

Location: Toronto
E-mail: delinis@sianews.com
Homepage: http://www.sianews.com
ICQ#: 37933589

You can probably go for another account now that those are all gone. Oh wait, what was this? Azura2? Let me check that profile.

Location: Toronto
E-mail: delinis@sianews.com
Homepage: http://www.sianews.com
ICQ#: 37933589

Some people need gas masks. Some people need a bus ticket to Seattle. All you need is $10 -- join the Ontario Progressive Conservative Youth Association.  

I am a hardcore political junkie, and am going to be Prime Minister in 2030 :)

Delinis eh? How coincidental! Just like your name. And checking your profile, I see you have an ICQ number in common too!

Location: Ontario
E-mail: delinis6086@rogers.com
ICQ#: 37933589

Where's the beef?  

Azura2
Account # 77122
Signup 2002-01-27
Messages 4 articles, 47 replies
Status Banned

JDelinis
Account # 78843
Signup 2002-03-02
Messages 7 articles, 46 replies
Status Banned

All told, I think Jim just found 6 more accounts of yours. What exactly is a progressive conservative anyhow?

For all the curious, Jim said he would restore the profiles I mentioned for all to see (he can't right now due to John doing some database work).

829 posted on 06/24/2002 5:56:28 PM PDT by Admin Moderator
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To: Texasforever
Well, I wasn't thinking I would get one, but I wanted to point it out to the lurkers. LOL!
830 posted on 06/24/2002 5:57:09 PM PDT by Miss Marple
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To: pyx
Because he basically put his entire foreign policy reputation on the line with this policy speech. He is heading into a G-8 summit with this in his pocket, and will basically say, this is the way it's going to be. But I do believe that this isn't just his idea. I firmly believe that he spoke with moderate Arab states ahead of time as well as Great Britain and Russia to let them know what was coming. If they had an objection, they had a week to let him know.

I don't believe this is capitulation anyhow. This is Israel's war. We are simply playing the role of 'trusted advisor' to Israel- just as they did to us after 9-11.

I will go on record (as I have before about the Mideast situation) that if Bush backtracks, it will be the third thing I have vehemently disagreed with him about. But I don't think that will happen.

831 posted on 06/24/2002 5:57:52 PM PDT by rintense
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To: denydenydeny
And here you thought pyx was bad. Go figure. :-)
832 posted on 06/24/2002 5:58:03 PM PDT by Howlin
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To: holdonnow

Latest suicide bombing in Israel butchers dozens of schoolchildren, commuters

The bus driver on the Jerusalem road was among the many murdered instantly (June 18, 2002)

The Israeli authorities knew the suicide bomber's name and face beforehand but still did not stop him from carrying out his atrocious butchery. Bodies and parts of them were blown through the windows of the bus by the force of the blast. In an unprecedented move, the fat Bolshevik traitor Ariel Sharon waddled to the scene of the carnage and, in the words of one wit, "promised to take Yasser Arafat out -- for a night of dining and dancing."

jtf.org

833 posted on 06/24/2002 5:58:03 PM PDT by majordivit
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To: Admin Moderator
We have/had our own personal Sybil.
834 posted on 06/24/2002 5:58:25 PM PDT by Texasforever
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To: majordivit
Actually I was speaking for the 70% of Texans who approved of his performance as governor and reelected him. That post was all in regards to his history in Texas.

I can assure you that the majority of Texans NEVER supported Clinton nor opposed impeachment.
835 posted on 06/24/2002 5:58:29 PM PDT by Diddle E. Squat
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To: Texasforever
Shouldn't be that much longer.
836 posted on 06/24/2002 5:59:09 PM PDT by Howlin
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To: holdonnow
I can understand your position that there shouldn't be a state... But Israel wants there to be one... Shouldn't we support what Israel wants?
837 posted on 06/24/2002 5:59:12 PM PDT by sabe@q.com
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To: Miss Marple
OK. Now you are calling someone a "dope."

It's okay, MM. Calling people names means you've lost the argument. There is a much wider screen than most tunnel-visioned people seem to notice. Maybe once gripe at a time is all they can handle.

838 posted on 06/24/2002 5:59:26 PM PDT by Nix 2
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To: Miss Marple; holdonnow
The complaints about Rush are a little off topic for this thread, but they need to be addressed.

Without Rush, it is likely that we would be listening to President Gore. Rush's access to exit polls showed a neck and neck election, so Rush implored, begged and pleaded with Conservatives to GO VOTE!

The pre-election polls - and nearly every thread on FR - stressed that GWB had an 'insurmountable', 'overwhelming' lead in the polls. The theory was that Gore was wooden, tied to Clinton, the 'kiss' was so staged that people would not fall for it. Those polls left many people feeling that GWB did not need their vote. Guess what? He did. I know many people who thought GWB had a lock on the election, and only voted as a result of Rush.

I don't agree with Rush on everything (though I'm hard pressed to think of some area of disagreement now), but for years he has been the ONLY face of conservatism. Rush ALWAYS says he would prefer Bush to Gore, and that includes the morphing of Bush into Gore about one issue, one time, for the purpose of making a point.

Rush is correct in his criticism of the Farm Bill and CFR. He ALWAYS reiterates his understanding that these are political not philosophical decisions; however, he correctly points out that Bush has a bully pulpit and that his constant compromise has not resulted in a 'kindler, gentler' Democratic leadership.

Rush has been subjected to the death of a thousand cuts by the Libs and is still standing. In 2004, if the economy is still a mess and the WoT is not going well, the Conservatives, Republicans, and Bush will need a friend on the airwaves, and who're they gonna call: Rush.

839 posted on 06/24/2002 5:59:57 PM PDT by Fracas
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To: Miss Marple
I am really surprised given who he is. I guess we all just put our pants on one leg at a time after all. He can't seem to deal with that.

840 posted on 06/24/2002 6:00:51 PM PDT by Texasforever
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To: LisaFab
Yes, he did say that. Saudi Arabia has been quiet as of late. I wonder if Cheney grabbed them by the collar and gave them the what for...
841 posted on 06/24/2002 6:01:24 PM PDT by rintense
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To: Teacher317
The "or else" doesn't have to include battle plans... but it does need to exist. The carrot needs to have a stick handy.

Oh but there is a carrot... it's going to be Iraq. And Iraq will be the example of what's to come for those who side with terrorism.

842 posted on 06/24/2002 6:02:44 PM PDT by rintense
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To: Miss Marple
I've been receiving a number of emails that tell me you get into this disputes with a lot of people. I should have guessed. I've also been told that Oldfriend is a "lackey" and Texasforever is "a mouthpiece for the RNC." I'd say these other Freepers have it about right.
843 posted on 06/24/2002 6:02:51 PM PDT by holdonnow
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To: Texasforever
And you have mail!!
844 posted on 06/24/2002 6:03:25 PM PDT by OldFriend
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To: Grampa Dave
Oh I think that also was a direct statement to Saudi Arabia.
845 posted on 06/24/2002 6:03:56 PM PDT by rintense
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To: OldFriend
You're very quick-witted. You remind me of Barney Frank.
846 posted on 06/24/2002 6:04:32 PM PDT by holdonnow
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To: AlGone2001; Thinkin' Gal; babylonian; Jeremiah Jr; holdonnow; Prodigal Daughter; mancini
O say can you see?  Guess not.  You are falsely accusing Thinkin' Gal.  You do not understand what she is saying.  Rather than attack her because you not understand, examine yourself and see if you can see why you don't understand.  We could provide some clues but have to run...

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

But do beware of the Bush boot.  With the same measure you give to Thinkin' Gal, it may be given to you, multiplied, pressed down, shaken together...shall men give to you.  

Rev 13:10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

847 posted on 06/24/2002 6:04:46 PM PDT by 2sheep
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To: Fracas
I really didn't want to discuss Rush on this thread.

He has been helpful in the past and I honor him for it. However, he has tunnelvision regarding President Bush, and I have lost faith in someone who has spent time bashing the President rather than bashing Daschle. If you still like him, that is fine. I just decided to not listen to him any more.

848 posted on 06/24/2002 6:04:48 PM PDT by Miss Marple
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To: OldFriend
Oh, and I forgot -- dope.
849 posted on 06/24/2002 6:05:02 PM PDT by holdonnow
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To: bert
Excellent points, bert. I suspect that he also prepared the moderate Arab states for the coming example... Iraq.
850 posted on 06/24/2002 6:05:08 PM PDT by rintense
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