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Bush Middle East Speech Discussion Thread

Posted on 06/24/2002 12:48:28 PM PDT by RCW2001

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To: Jim Robinson
Yeah I can believe it. We all get smarter and wiser the longer we're at Free Republic. You're no exception.

The thread you posted last year was called: Attention All Rush Bashers-Now Hear This in case anyone cares.

When I told Texasforever to "put a sock in it", and listed the ten options he could choose instead of bashing Rush,  I forgot to credit you as the original source. Eeek. (I will stand by my offer to buy him a clue, though.)

Thanks Jim. Be good.
1,451 posted on 06/25/2002 12:48:18 AM PDT by unsycophant
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To: Jim Robinson
. It's not every day that you get to go to fisticuffs with the likes of a great conservative mind like Mark's.

No opus no asking for a refund but see ya around.

1,452 posted on 06/25/2002 1:12:37 AM PDT by Texasforever
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To: Texasforever
You gotta be kidding me. I thought you were from Texas.

1,453 posted on 06/25/2002 1:19:05 AM PDT by Jim Robinson
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To: Jim Robinson
Well said. I'm glad to read your opinion that Mark has a great mind (especially since he agreed with me!). LOL.

Every word of criticism about Bush does NOT translate into 'Bush bashing' or 'you never voted for Bush', or any thing resembling those accusations. I don't even agree with myself 100% of the time (female prerogative to change my mind).

One trait that separates Liberals from Conservatives is that Liberals are required to march in lock-step with the party leaders. Conservatives are too intelligent to be told how to think. The divergent opinions posted on this thread are not so far apart IF devoid of personal attacks. It's possible to disagree quite vociferously, but in a polite manner. OTOH, the 'scorched earth' policy is occasionally necessary, and I think that's what we witnessed tonight.

1,454 posted on 06/25/2002 2:42:36 AM PDT by Fracas
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To: holdonnow
You're no different than the Clintonoids. Your arguments are personalized. You feel you have to attack those who disagree with you rather than simply argue your case. You are, in short, a jerk.

There is something very satisfying about having someone who's in the know come to the same conclusions I have, as far as those who back Bush no-matter-what.

I've had very serious questions about Bush since CFR -- well, before then, actually -- and have beem set-upon for even asking the questions by the exact circle of people who set upon you.

Nice reality-check. You and I think alike, inasmuch as it is important to try to hold Dubya's feet to the fire. I was hoping for another Reagan with GW, instead it looks like I got another GWH.

1,455 posted on 06/25/2002 2:45:01 AM PDT by Lazamataz
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To: Lazamataz
wow. 1455 posts

If you will take a deep breath, look at what GWB and his team have done,and compare them to Clinton. My God, can you imagine what Gore would have done with 9/11? Now, GWB has outlined a clear path for peace in the mideast. Why shouldn`t we support our President?

1,456 posted on 06/25/2002 2:58:33 AM PDT by bybybill
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To: Jim Robinson
what was the Mark Levin post?
1,457 posted on 06/25/2002 3:01:04 AM PDT by bybybill
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To: hchutch
Now, are we going to fight each other, or are we going to fight the left? Because the bridge burned today just might be needed tomorrow.

Today's left is tomorrow's right.

1,458 posted on 06/25/2002 3:07:21 AM PDT by Huck
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To: Lazamataz
He backs Bush. He just doesn't agree with every decision Bush has made.
1,459 posted on 06/25/2002 3:52:05 AM PDT by Jim Robinson
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To: bybybill
Oh there were several dozen of them. Way back about halfway up the thread.
1,460 posted on 06/25/2002 3:53:16 AM PDT by Jim Robinson
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To: Lazamataz; holdonnow
I've had very serious questions about Bush since CFR -- well, before then, actually -- and have beem set-upon for even asking the questions by the exact circle of people who set upon you

LOL! It's a Bush cabal I tells you.

Anyway as you have your pity party, I will lay out the facts as I have debated them before about CFR.

Bush signed CFR so as not to give the the dems, mccain, and the press an issue. Bush signed the bill knowing it will go to court and the most vile part of CFR(the ad bans) being thrown out and actually a recent SCOTUS ruling bears that will happen.

SCOTUS ruled that an Ohio town's ban of door to door solicitation was unconstituional setting the precedent for SCOTUS to rule that the politcal ad ban is also unconstitutional, IMHO.

Nice reality-check. You and I think alike, inasmuch as it is important to try to hold Dubya's feet to the fire. I was hoping for another Reagan with GW, instead it looks like I got another GWH.

You both do think alike IMHO. You both are really full of themselves.

BTW, if you would look at the facts you will notice that W. has more cajones than Reagan when it comes to Social Security, the ABM treaty, the 2nd amendment and a whole host of other issues.

1,461 posted on 06/25/2002 4:10:33 AM PDT by Dane
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To: Yehuda
"Considering that the President just ringingly endorsed the Mitchell Report as continuing US policy, I bet not. The broadcast media will probably miss that, since it doesn't lend itself to those 30 second sound bites. But the Government of Israel definitely got the message. "

He only mentioned a section of it.

Yes, the section regarding settlements.

What part of "consistent with the recommendations of the Mitchell Committee, Israeli settlement activity in the occupied territories must stop." don't you understand?

-Eric

1,462 posted on 06/25/2002 4:33:03 AM PDT by E Rocc
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To: Lady In Blue
Most of these third party orphan losers couldn't tie Powell's shoes. Their hate mantras on this man are right in the arena of racism, which they could never admit.

Their mantras of hate Powell are in the bully thug manner of their hate GW mantras. Sound bites and mantras just like those used by the DUers and lefty maggots.

Your feelings are just like mine. Can you imagine being put in charge of the state department with over 6 decades of left wing socialists in charge of it. Then the damage that the Clintoons and Mad Albright did to it from 1993 to 2001!
1,463 posted on 06/25/2002 4:46:01 AM PDT by Grampa Dave
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To: Yehuda
"BTW, why do you bring us quotes from the PLO, Al Bushwa and the leftist FMEP?"

I dunno, because they are also the opinion of every government on Earth save one?

Save three - the US does not endorse the PLO, as should be obvious from the fact that Bush wouldn't even mention Arafat's NAME.

Save what three? The opinion is that the settlements are illegal, a violation of the Geneva Convention. The Mitchell Report specifically states this. It's the US position on the matter, and also the position of the rest of the Geneva Convention signatories.

-Eric

1,464 posted on 06/25/2002 4:53:20 AM PDT by E Rocc
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To: Alouette
Did eric say INDONESIA? Tolerant, peace-loving, multicultural Indonesia?
Oh big deal, in a nation of 215 million people, 90% of whom are Moslems, you'll find a few fanatics. There's maybe 20,000 belonging to Lasker Jihad and similar organizations.

I suppose it means nothing that the government is based on Dutch Law, the franchise is universal, and the President is a woman who is at most a moderate Moslem who often visits Hindu temples in Bali and has strongly supported the War on Terror.

-Eric

1,465 posted on 06/25/2002 4:57:48 AM PDT by E Rocc
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To: Yehuda
no lets go back to indonesia, traitor.
Opposing Israel is treason to America? Do you live in a alternate world or do you just throw out random ravings when you're losing badly.

Our President said that settlement activity must stop and endorsed a report that called it illegal.

-Eric

1,466 posted on 06/25/2002 5:01:28 AM PDT by E Rocc
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To: Yehuda
Care to compare how many innocent women and children intentionally slaughtered by jihadis that you encouraged? You go girl, you are edging close to the FR Goebelles award.

And who gives a flying for how long you have been SQUATTING on your keyboard at FR. Anyone who loves Peres and is STUPID enough to call many of the Jews living in Yesha socialists is an obvious candidate for HamAS juco validictorian of the year. And btw, I'm not your "son, I have 10 years on you, more than enough understand the weakness of your mind and your spirit.

So now preferring Peres to Eitam and the rest of the lebensraum lusters is backing Hamas. Wow.

On my other bulletin board we call this a "meltdown". It's getting funny.

-Eric

1,467 posted on 06/25/2002 5:04:39 AM PDT by E Rocc
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To: bybybill
If you will take a deep breath, look at what GWB and his team have done,and compare them to Clinton. My God, can you imagine what Gore would have done with 9/11?
You've got that right for sure. Gore himself wouldn't have been as bad as the morons he would have appointed. :shudder.
Now, GWB has outlined a clear path for peace in the mideast. Why shouldn`t we support our President?
Both the terrorist supporters and the radical Eretz Israel types are going to hate this idea. That's a sign that its probably a good plan.

-Eric

1,468 posted on 06/25/2002 5:07:37 AM PDT by E Rocc
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To: Miss Marple
Yeah, they had their versions and some out right lies ready to go.

Makes you wonder if Kristol and the other so called conservatives in the Belt Way who need Viagra when they even hear of GW, had their own interpretations ready to sling mud on our president.

They can't get by with making and slinging the Bravo Siera anymore with the internet and Free Republic.

Shame on them for using the same play book that the Rats use.
1,469 posted on 06/25/2002 5:08:21 AM PDT by Grampa Dave
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To: Grampa Dave
Most of these third party orphan losers couldn't tie Powell's shoes. Their hate mantras on this man are right in the arena of racism, which they could never admit.
I like to ask those who love Sharon and hate Powell what they thought of Reagan. Reagan strongly trusted Powell and made him his National Security Advisor. Reagan also burned Begin's ears over the Beirut invasion (deliberately using the word "holocaust"), and actively pushed the Israelis to remove Sharon from the cabinet once the facts came out.

Has it occurred to anybody that Powell and Condi Rice are being "good cop/bad cop" with the combatants in the region? Powell is the "good cop" with the Arabs, Condi is with the Israelis.

-Eric

1,470 posted on 06/25/2002 5:14:01 AM PDT by E Rocc
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To: AlGone2001
Daniel Pipes is right... but, why don't they get up and do something instead of sulking....

Because it's easier to be the victim than to get up and get moving.

1,471 posted on 06/25/2002 5:19:24 AM PDT by carton253
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To: Torie
More about Indonesia. It is a mixed bag, but to be fair, it sure ain't akin to what we find (sadly) at present in most of the Arab world. The best we can hope for is that this too shall pass.
I saw an article put together by the Australian government (which keeps a close eye on Indonesia for obvious reasons). They seemed to think there were at most 20,000 hard line Islamic terrorist backers in Indonesia.

I suspect anyone with a chip on their shoulder about America could find 20,000 wackos here.

-Eric

1,472 posted on 06/25/2002 5:21:04 AM PDT by E Rocc
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To: E Rocc
Thanks, I had forgotten about the Powell/Reagan connection.

Unfornately many of the Powell haters and anti GWers on anything he does re the Middle East, don't like Sharon either. They are 24/7 Bibi fans. Bibi is not the man in charge in Israel. The man in charge in Israel is Sharon, and our man is GW. They both are doing a good job in a terrible situation. So called allies that hammer both of them 24/7 are not allies. They play right into the hands of the Islamic Thugs.
1,473 posted on 06/25/2002 5:22:13 AM PDT by Grampa Dave
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To: Grampa Dave
I lost interest in this thread last night and got sleepy. Apparently the Israelis are VERY pleased with this speech, according to all news reports I have heard this morning. The front page of the Jerusalem paper had a picture of President Bush with a headline "Newest Member of Likud."

I wonder how the anti-Bush faction on the airways is going to spin this today....

1,474 posted on 06/25/2002 5:29:43 AM PDT by Miss Marple
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To: holdonnow
If you and others are correct, that Bush is sly like a fox

I never said that, in fact I ment just the opposite. Bush is the first president that is using blunt and plain language about what he thinks needs to happen.

1,475 posted on 06/25/2002 5:31:55 AM PDT by Brookhaven
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To: PhiKapMom
That's for sure -- their Breaking News Department is not the best! Pretty bad when I go to CNN for breaking news!
CNN's website is light years better than Fox's and IMO lacks the bias of its parent network.

-Eric

1,476 posted on 06/25/2002 5:34:09 AM PDT by E Rocc
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To: rintense
I hope so. Much of what this administration does diplomatically is behind the scenes. Unlike the last group whose main behind the scenes activities were largely unspeakable.
1,477 posted on 06/25/2002 5:38:51 AM PDT by LisaFab
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To: LisaFab
Heh. Or, they made every detail public- unless there was a cigar or blue dress involved. Such a stark difference...
1,478 posted on 06/25/2002 5:40:22 AM PDT by rintense
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To: Grampa Dave
Unfornately many of the Powell haters and anti GWers on anything he does re the Middle East, don't like Sharon either. They are 24/7 Bibi fans. Bibi is not the man in charge in Israel. The man in charge in Israel is Sharon, and our man is GW. They both are doing a good job in a terrible situation. So called allies that hammer both of them 24/7 are not allies. They play right into the hands of the Islamic Thugs.
Personally I have more respect for Netanyahu than Sharon, even though I disagree with his rhetoric. Despite it, he was able to work well with both Jordan and the PA. Sharon seems to go out of his way to antagonize the Palis in even the smallest ways (the high profile visit to Mount Moriah, the house he maintains in the Muslim Quarter of Jerusalem).

If the Israeli government is as happy with Bush's speech as is presented here, they may indeed be looking for a pretext to rein in the Anschluss crowd. While Bush's comments about the PA are getting all the public attention, his views on the settlements were subtle but equally clear.

Actions will count more than reactions..on both sides.

-Eric

1,479 posted on 06/25/2002 5:51:48 AM PDT by E Rocc
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To: habs4ever
You are wrong.............that is the exact Mark Levin that does a two hour radio show on WABC in New York. On his show he has bashed the President on EVERY issue.

The words Mark used tonite were the exact words Sean used on his radio show this afternoon when he commented on the President's speech.

Interestingly enough, the three who never served a day in the military are now military experts, Israeli experts, and experts on how they would run the country if they were President.

1,480 posted on 06/25/2002 5:56:42 AM PDT by OldFriend
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To: E Rocc; Miss Marple
You posted, "Personally I have more respect for Netanyahu than Sharon, even though I disagree with his rhetoric."

A big problem is that Rush and many of the so called conservative voices in the beltway have bought Bibi's rhetoric lock stock and barrel. They savage GW when they see him not following Bibi's rhetoric.

I feel that helps Arafatty and his Islamic thugs more than the average Israeli trying to stay alive and keep his/her family alive. If and when BiBi gets re elected, he will be the man to support. Right now I support GW and Sharon, because they are the ones in charge with this awful task.
1,481 posted on 06/25/2002 6:05:07 AM PDT by Grampa Dave
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To: cmsgop
Go to your public library and dig out US News and World report and Time from 1991. Read the Gulf War articles. See if you can get video archives.

I did a little searching on the Internet, but found nothing.

1,482 posted on 06/25/2002 6:09:42 AM PDT by ExpandNATO
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To: Miss Marple; Grampa Dave; Jim Robinson
I think one of the problems Bush is having with some conservatives is outlined in post 1214. Conservatives have a strong moral and ethical center based on principles. Bush similarly has that moral and ethical center, but he's also a pragamtist. Pragmatic people, though, are not above compromising or fighting dirty when they feel they have no other option. Compromise is a part of politics, particularly in making sure you win the next election. Some conservatives have a problem with that, and it is based on our strength, which can become a weakness if carried too far.

There are a large number of them who I feel have an inability to fight dirty, and a good portion of those who cannot fight dirty view those who would fight dirty - for ANY reason - with some measure of distaste. I bet that if 500 random Freepers were given the details of how we tracked down and took out Pablo Escobar, we'd have a fair number of conservatives who would have objections to the methods, and some would have very strong objections, because after reading Mark Bowden's book, I am VERY certain that our guys doing the hunting crossed a few lines to take that creep out.

The thing is, I support them crossing those lines because Escobar HAD to be taken out at all costs. And sometimes, to take out the Democrats, we will have to cut our losses in some fights, and concentrate on the ones we can win.

I cannot help that some people do not like that. At the same time, we have a whole agenda and movement to consider, and in my opinion, it's a lot bigger than the egos of a few people.
1,483 posted on 06/25/2002 6:11:05 AM PDT by hchutch
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To: Miss Marple
Miss Marple posted: "The front page of the Jerusalem paper had a picture of President Bush with a headline "Newest Member of Likud."

"I wonder how the anti-Bush faction on the airways is going to spin this today....?"

The usual script of following Bibi's explosive rhetoric and calling GW a sell out. We saw that behavior right here on Free Republic last night by one of the beltway Bibi 24/7 fan club. I'm not against Bibi, but his rhetoric right now used by the so called Beltway conservatives is not helpful. Finally, Bibi is not in charge. Sharon is the man responsible.

These Beltway so called conservatives seem intent on electronically lynching both Sharon and GW. Fortunately, they have minimal impact here and obviously very little impact in Israel re your comments about GW being, "Newest Member of Likud."

1,484 posted on 06/25/2002 6:13:18 AM PDT by Grampa Dave
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To: E Rocc; Grampa Dave; Miss Marple
I'm also more of a Netanyahu fan, myself. Israel needs a break from its past, and quite frankly, I think Netanyahu also has a better record of dealing with Jordan and the PA. I also like the fact that he is not in the mood to take any crap from the PA, either.

The fact is, Netanyahu probably will win the next election. In which case, he is in charge. In any case, the Palestinians seem to be rejecting Bush's conditions, therefore they may very well lose any hope of a Palestinian state. It's a shame that the Palestinian people allowed themselves to be used as bloody pawns in this MidEast grudge match.
1,485 posted on 06/25/2002 6:16:41 AM PDT by hchutch
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To: hchutch
As many of have pointed out, we have two critical tasks:

#1. We must not allow the Islamic terrorists to be successful in killing us. This is a war of survival. Anyone who does not recognize that has a severe break with the reality of 9/11!

#2. We must defeat a lot of Rat Senators this November and if possible increase the Republicans in the house. Many of these Rats help the Islamic terrorists each and everyday, like they have for years. We can not tolerate that behavior any more.

So as you point out our egos must become secondary. Too many people and their egos are living in pre 9/11 days.
1,486 posted on 06/25/2002 6:21:31 AM PDT by Grampa Dave
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To: E Rocc
Eric posted re GW's Plan:

Both the terrorist supporters and the radical Eretz Israel types are going to hate this idea. That's a sign that its probably a good plan.

Often this is an excellent way to judge a plan or proposal. Who really hates it?

1,487 posted on 06/25/2002 6:29:19 AM PDT by Grampa Dave
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To: Howlin
Now he is saying it will be a guide to ALL countries around the world in the same shape as Israel/PA.

Gosh. I didn't know Bush was elected President of Earth to be able to parcel out land and create countries when and where he thinks best. But, since he has been voted by American citizens to rule the world, I can't see how he could go wrong.

Go Bush go!

Tuor

Give me liberty or give me death.

1,488 posted on 06/25/2002 6:32:54 AM PDT by Tuor
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To: hchutch
If and when BiBi is elected and put in charge, we will see what he will do.

After the Clintoon/Carville manipulation of the Israeli elections to elect a pacifist to enable the Clintoon to have a so called legacy. We need to stay the hell out of Israel's politics. Let them elect whom they think will be the best leader. They are the ones in danger of getting blown up 24/7.

This goes back to your ego comment. As Americans we need to put our egos on hold and let the Israelis elect and support whom they want to lead them. I will support whomever, they elect as that man will be their choice. He will be the one responsible for settling this mess without destroying Israel and maybe the Middle East.
1,489 posted on 06/25/2002 6:41:16 AM PDT by Grampa Dave
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To: Tuor
Quite frankly, we were sentenced for "imperialism" long ago by those who hate this country, and some of those who called us imperialists launched 9/11.

Since we've already done the "time" for it, I say we might as well do the "crime."
1,490 posted on 06/25/2002 6:42:23 AM PDT by hchutch
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To: unsycophant; Jim Robinson
BUMP
1,491 posted on 06/25/2002 6:48:07 AM PDT by Scholastic
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To: Grampa Dave
I agree, and Clinton's undermining of Netanyahu set the stage for this. The egos must stay in check.

At the same time, I hope we can also get in on cleaning out some of the Palestinian groups. We still owe `em for Stethem and Klinghoffer.
1,492 posted on 06/25/2002 6:52:22 AM PDT by hchutch
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To: hchutch
This remark of yours, needs to repeated and repeated 24/7/365:

Clinton's undermining of Netanyahu set the stage for this. The egos must stay in check.

Again, I will put my ego in check if the IDF settles a lot of scores with the PAs who need to be taken off the streets and bag them for disposal on the curbs.

The IDF knows who/whom is responsible for the atrocities that you mention, and they will handle it if any of them are still alive.

We have a lot of bigger fish to behead and trash. The ones involved in the financing of 9/11 are the ones, I want to see us focus on. Let the IDF handle the PA thugs, and we handle the thugs in Iran, Iraq and Syria. Then, we can clean house in Saudi land if they don't behead several hundred thousand thugs who preach death to Americans 24/7.

1,493 posted on 06/25/2002 7:01:01 AM PDT by Grampa Dave
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To: E Rocc
Save what three? The opinion is that the settlements are illegal, a violation of the Geneva Convention. The Mitchell Report specifically states this. It's the US position on the matter, and also the position of the rest of the Geneva Convention signatories.

No, it's not, yes it is, No, it's not, yes it is, No, it's not, yes it is, No, it's not, yes it is, And if enough people tell you to jump off the empire state building will you do it? You are a liar. It's YOUR opinion, and that of Arab senator sent there and endorsed by socialists and arabists in the state department and the EU - just like you. Bush did NOT endorse all of Mitchell, he brought up an item from within Mitchell, and you better hope he doesn't bring more of Mitchell as that will require your muslim boyfriends STOPPING TERRORISM. And you wouldn't like that, would you? How else would you start your day without some more Jewish blood on the side of the road.

1,494 posted on 06/25/2002 7:02:25 AM PDT by Yehuda
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To: hchutch
Since we've already done the "time" for it, I say we might as well do the "crime."

So an innocent man convicted for murder should go ahead and kill someone once he gets out of the slammer? I dunno...that sounds sort of iffy to me...

Tuor

Give me liberty or give me death.

1,495 posted on 06/25/2002 7:03:52 AM PDT by Tuor
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To: wingnuts'nbolts
The Palistinian people are not happy with Arafat now, and he may have no choice but to leave.

People who disagree with Yasser are accused of being "collaborators." Palestinian "collaborators" have a tendency to be beaten and shot, then strung up by their heels in the middle of Manger Square.

1,496 posted on 06/25/2002 7:05:59 AM PDT by Catspaw
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Comment #1,497 Removed by Moderator


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