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Bush Middle East Speech Discussion Thread

Posted on 06/24/2002 12:48:28 PM PDT by RCW2001

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To: Texasforever
Seems a lot of us expected more from 'certain' people......such as mark, sean, and rush. Guess they want to prove to everyone they are 'independent' thinkers....

Kind of sad, but then they are out in the wilderness with the libs and we are here with a President we love and admire.

751 posted on 06/24/2002 5:21:17 PM PDT by OldFriend
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To: Miss Marple
Now you're attacking Rush. So far this evening, Ronald Reagan, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity have been personally attacked, and you dare to complain about the responses you're receiving? Surely you jest.
752 posted on 06/24/2002 5:22:23 PM PDT by holdonnow
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To: majordivit
Agree.
753 posted on 06/24/2002 5:23:24 PM PDT by holdonnow
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To: holdonnow
When he's criticized for one thing, it doesn't mean he is being criticized for all things. Make sense?

Sure, if you can tell me what YOU think his focus is. Because I can't see where you guys don't realize that this man came to office with virtually the entire government Clintonized, yet still has accomplished more good for the US and for Israel than anyone could have thought possible with a State Department that is so Islamitized it gives me heartburn.
Do you notice that he has met with Sharon...not Cairo-fat? He has met with Netanyahu. He has been on the receiving end of some great Israeli intelligence he couldn't get from his own people because they were still Clinton people.
What you criticize are images without substance. You are still making the mistake of thinking that Bush is stupid.
I am a diehard conservative and a major supporter of Israel. And I can honestly say that the man has amazed me and done miracles all over the place while no one was watching.

754 posted on 06/24/2002 5:23:42 PM PDT by Nix 2
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To: archy
Sir,
I protest !
Your slanderous mischaracterization of President Bush is a disservice to America. It is also an obscenity in that it diminishes the revulsion all good men should have regarding the bootlicking, Neville Chaimberlane did in trying to appease the National Socialists in Germany.
755 posted on 06/24/2002 5:24:43 PM PDT by pyx
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To: Howlin
Ridiculous. Everybody agrees it was FOR Israel. Unless, of course, you NEED an issue.

Was watching a few of the liberal shows .. they seems to think it was a pro-israel speech also

756 posted on 06/24/2002 5:25:41 PM PDT by Mo1
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To: archy
Naw, Bush is no Nevill Chamberlain(despite my bit of innuendo). 3 years is a long time, my bet is that we'll never actually see the creation of the proposed Polandstine state, at least nothing close to the current Palestinian govt. They'll blow it long before then, the conditions are too much.

Ya know how when Bush outlined his Home Security agency plan, there was great worry about how it would create even more beauracracy? Yet come to find out that in the details are provisions to bypass many civil service provisions, in effect taking many agencies, reforming them into another, and weeding out a lot of 'dead wood' in the process. A stealth endaround of problems that would have been a political nightmare to confront directly. So I wonder if this Polandstine proposal actually may be somewhat of a trojan horse. Oh, Bush likely does mean to make possible the POSSIBILITY of a new state. But the proposal likely may be more of a tool for the moment. Kinda like the statement that he has no plans for an invasion of Iraq on his desk. Yet the signs sure are there that we are progressing into a position to strike at a moments notice.
757 posted on 06/24/2002 5:26:16 PM PDT by Diddle E. Squat
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To: Texasforever
Are you kidding? Have you been reading the posts that you purport to respond to? I just said -- George Bush is the FIRST Republican president to endorse a Palestinian state. That means that Ronald Reagan did NOT endorse a Palestinian state. That seems like a big difference. Why do you insist on denying this?
758 posted on 06/24/2002 5:27:26 PM PDT by holdonnow
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To: OldFriend
I expected alot more from President Bush. I liked the tax cut, withdrawing from the ABM treaty, sinking Kyoto, and his returning honor and dignity to the oval office. However, there a many things he has done that have disappointed me deeply--especially his trimming of the Bill of Rights.
759 posted on 06/24/2002 5:27:32 PM PDT by kristinn
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To: holdonnow
I did not attack Ronald Reagan. I simply said he signed a farm bill. I haven't mentioned Hannity at all. My antipathy to Rush has been known here for the last month.

You are simply throwing darts without even reading my threads . Please try to be accurate.

760 posted on 06/24/2002 5:27:59 PM PDT by Miss Marple
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To: holdonnow
You have enough to handle on this thread without butting into a personal conversation.
761 posted on 06/24/2002 5:28:05 PM PDT by Howlin
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To: OldFriend
I take no joy in pointing out President Reagan's shortcomings except when those that delight in doing that to President Bush whine that "Reagan would never do it". This guy especially believes because he worked in the Reagan administration his word should be accepted without question. Reagan was my own FDR Just as Reagan's 1st 4 presidential votes were for FDR. I will not stand by while this administration is trashed because it does not live up to the MYTH of the Reagan administration. If the want to compare reality with reality that is fine but not fantasy with reality. That is bush league.


762 posted on 06/24/2002 5:28:09 PM PDT by Texasforever
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To: holdonnow
A punk like me is not going to challenge your bona fides or slap you silly for your comments, however what I have to say is that the perception that W. is so strong domestically is patently false. You know very well the fractured nature of post-Clinton politics in America—even a event such as 9|11 does little more than paper over some very obvious wounds. We are in a weaker position politically than in 1995, period.

Usuama, Islamic Scumbag and Saddam Stalin aside, we have a lot of bad actors over here all too willing to drop nails in front of every Bush-led initiative. There is little room for him to move in that situation. It isn't as if he can declare a state of siege and dissolve Congress.

In regards to Israel, well there are UN resolutions to uphold, and allies to placate and 4 million Palestinians we have to put somewhere. Look, it sucks. But we have to figure out the least bad solution, okay?
763 posted on 06/24/2002 5:29:05 PM PDT by lavrenti
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To: FranklinsTower
The reason he did not mention Arafat by name is because he does not have an alternative. Instead he wants to shift power from the executive to the legislative branch of government and then hold parliamentary elections.

The flaw in Bush's plan is that he is placing too much faith in democracy. President Bush made a noble and idealistic speech, but the Palestinians are going to vote on the basis of what they have been experiencing, and what they have experienced is a massive invasion of their territory. This will not result in moderation in voting behavior and there is a real chance that Hamas will win the upcoming elections.

In order to compete with Hamas and other radicals, Arafat will have to appear uncompromising which will hurt efforts to get him to crack down on terror. When the Israelis then continue to launch military incursions, it will reinforce the view that Arafat is not able to protect his people.

The reason that some Israelis are supporting this is that they are hoping that it will fail, and that when it fails they will have the green light to do what they want.

The fear that moderates will sell out the Palestinian cause will also motivate Palestinians to vote for the radicals.
It would make more sense to impose a solution and then ask the Palestinian people to vote on whether to approve it.
764 posted on 06/24/2002 5:29:12 PM PDT by ganesha
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To: Texasforever
A jonest debate ... no. An honest debate, yes. I refer you to my latest post, which answers your question. Now answer the question I posed to you, if you believe in a jonest debate.
765 posted on 06/24/2002 5:29:15 PM PDT by holdonnow
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To: holdonnow
George Bush is the FIRST Republican president to endorse a Palestinian state

George Bush endorsed a democracy. Period. Do YOU think it will happen?

766 posted on 06/24/2002 5:29:58 PM PDT by Nix 2
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To: holdonnow
right wingers are always right. That's why we're called right wingers...

Lock and Load

Peasant with Pitchfork

767 posted on 06/24/2002 5:30:15 PM PDT by majordivit
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To: Miss Marple
I'm surprised you haven't mention Calvin Coolidge.
768 posted on 06/24/2002 5:30:29 PM PDT by holdonnow
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To: holdonnow
No doubt in your hubris you think YOU should be the President.......you could make Daschle disappear, make Kennedy and LIEberman, Leahy, etc. do exactly as you wanted. Get your way on everything......just wave the magic wand and all the demonrats would fall into line......as easily as rush and sean hang on your every word. LOL.......do get over yourself.......and get in the real world.
769 posted on 06/24/2002 5:30:29 PM PDT by OldFriend
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To: ClancyJ
I don't get where you people think Bush caved and gave in to the terrorists?

"For too long, the citizens of the Middle East have lived in the midst of death and fear. The hatred of a few holds the hopes of many hostage."

Do you really think that the suicide bombings depend upon the "hatred of the few"? I think they are overwelmingly supported by the "Palestinians." Do you think GWB believes it's just a "few" or is he just saying this for public consumption?

"My vision is two states, living side by side in peace and security."

Is this a vision, or a delusion? What do you think?

ML/NJ

770 posted on 06/24/2002 5:30:54 PM PDT by ml/nj
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To: Carolinamom
You noticed. That's a start.
771 posted on 06/24/2002 5:31:00 PM PDT by holdonnow
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To: Texasforever
Some of the people on TV today were talking about the speech sounding "Reagonesque." Gufaw!!!!
772 posted on 06/24/2002 5:31:08 PM PDT by Howlin
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To: Miss Marple
There are a lot of folks here who are in the same camp as I.

M'am,
With all due respect, I suspect not in sufficient numbers to make you an arbiter of what a conservative is and what a conservative is not.
773 posted on 06/24/2002 5:31:21 PM PDT by pyx
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To: kristinn
However, there a many things he has done that have disappointed me deeply--especially his trimming of the Bill of Rights.

I haven't noticed any Constitutional Amendments lately. If you really think this has been done, perhaps a lawsuit is in order.

774 posted on 06/24/2002 5:31:27 PM PDT by Amelia
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To: holdonnow
Not only is Miss Marple smart, but she is respected by most freepers and we value her opinion.

As for my being Carvile.......that suggestion is as far off the mark as everything else you have said tonite.

775 posted on 06/24/2002 5:32:21 PM PDT by OldFriend
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To: OldFriend
No doubt in your hubris you think YOU should be the President.......you could make Daschle disappear, make Kennedy and LIEberman, Leahy, etc. do exactly as you wanted. Get your way on everything......just wave the magic wand and all the demonrats would fall into line......

No, dear. They wanted KEYES. He would have really had a handle on all this, doncha know?

776 posted on 06/24/2002 5:32:46 PM PDT by Howlin
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To: holdonnow
Calvin Coolidge?

Another one-liner. This is not a comedy club. You are just insulting people who disagree with you (and may I say, not converting people to your point of view).

777 posted on 06/24/2002 5:32:50 PM PDT by Miss Marple
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To: holdonnow
Geeze you are reduced to spelling errors. Look I don't know if you really are the real deal but if you are, all of those interviews had to be well rehearsed with no real challengers.

778 posted on 06/24/2002 5:33:59 PM PDT by Texasforever
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To: Texasforever
Oh, Texasforever? I thought Texas was occupied terroritory unfairly won in a war with the Mexicans. How do explain this?
779 posted on 06/24/2002 5:34:18 PM PDT by holdonnow
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To: majordivit
Hah, since I'm in Tejas, maybe I can engage you in an jonest debate. Now I know why I watch NASCAR races: for the wrecks!

One thing I learned from watching GW as governor of Texas is that sooner or later he makes everybody mad about something: liberals, moderates, and conservative all could point to something he did as governor that infuriated him. But in the end about 70% agreed that they liked his overall leadership.
780 posted on 06/24/2002 5:35:24 PM PDT by Diddle E. Squat
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To: holdonnow
I thought Texas was occupied terroritory unfairly won in a war with the Mexicans. How do explain this?

You are really embarrassing yourself. I would quit digging that hole.

781 posted on 06/24/2002 5:36:19 PM PDT by Texasforever
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To: holdonnow
Still waiting for your honest answer as to whether sean was reading your words on the radio this afternoon.
782 posted on 06/24/2002 5:36:36 PM PDT by OldFriend
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To: Mo1
Well, if the libs think it was pro-Israel, what does that mean?
783 posted on 06/24/2002 5:37:08 PM PDT by holdonnow
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To: holdonnow
How do explain this?

Clintonistas who haven't had the decency to commit Arkancide.

784 posted on 06/24/2002 5:37:47 PM PDT by Nix 2
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To: denydenydeny
Sir or Madam,
In view of my replies to posts on this thread, in what way have I been inconsistent with the comments in my profile ?
785 posted on 06/24/2002 5:37:52 PM PDT by pyx
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To: holdonnow
Aww,sticking up for rush baby........cause heaven knows he would never stoop to respond to us little people here on the thread full of kooks.
786 posted on 06/24/2002 5:38:01 PM PDT by OldFriend
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To: Nix 2
Actually, I think Bush is very bright. I just wish he'd stick to his original positions. I think they were the right positions. And, no, the Clintonoids are not forcing him to change his views.
787 posted on 06/24/2002 5:38:14 PM PDT by holdonnow
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To: Kaslin
I've read Miss Marbles comments for a long time and always enjoy them. To me she is a very highly intellegent woman so lay off her.

You know something? I agree with you.

But, in my book, she brings herself way down by being her own critic.

ML/NJ

788 posted on 06/24/2002 5:39:44 PM PDT by ml/nj
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To: kristinn
Did you happen to notice that Daschle is in control of the Senate?
789 posted on 06/24/2002 5:39:44 PM PDT by OldFriend
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To: holdonnow
Well, if the libs think it was pro-Israel, what does that mean?

It seems to mean that you care more about what the libs think than a conservative ought to. Since when did they become a measuing post for conservative thought?

790 posted on 06/24/2002 5:40:26 PM PDT by Nix 2
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To: Miss Marple
I don't have the time to go back into the threads, so if this has been previously mentioned,I beg your indulgence. Tonight,on the Chris Matthews show-(which I tuned in,just to see Matthews blow a gasket),the guest host was interviewing Howard Fineman. Howard Fineman said there was no other way to describe the speech,but "Reaganesque". I think this was a speech for the ages and another one, that will define Bush's presidency.
791 posted on 06/24/2002 5:40:37 PM PDT by Wild Irish Rogue
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To: ganesha
The only viable alternative to Arafat, sadly, is a guy named Bargouti. He organized a lot of the suicide bombings before being arrested in the April sweep.

There are, actually, four Palestines. One is the PA, the second the Hamas-dominated Gaza Strip, the third, Hizbulluh-controlled Lebanon and the last the ones who live in the United States, and even they are divided between Hamas-influenced jerks and the utterly cynical who tell everybody who ask they come from Sidon or Tyre.

Democracy? The Palestinians never had the experience. Not under the Turks, the Brits, the Jordanians, the IDF and certainly NOT under Arafat.

Yeah, they'll vote for Hamas and Hizbulluh.
792 posted on 06/24/2002 5:41:04 PM PDT by lavrenti
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To: Nix 2
Hey now, leave Admiral Boorda, Vince Foster, Jim McDougal, the traintrack teens, the guy whose dog ate his head, that pilot, the Oklahoman with anthrax, the Memphis coroner, Buddy the dog, et. al. out of this.
793 posted on 06/24/2002 5:41:34 PM PDT by Diddle E. Squat
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To: holdonnow
Oh Gosh Golly Gee let me think .. That maybe he is supporting Israel
794 posted on 06/24/2002 5:41:38 PM PDT by Mo1
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To: Nix 2
After the GW plan is enacted and Israel retreats to pre 67 borders, which even the ultra dove Abba Eban called Aushwitz lines, millions of Israelis will be like sitting ducks as the arabs place artillery right on the 5 mile wide border... What an
outrage...Palestianian democracy? Where is the model for muslim
democracy? There is none!!! Read the Koran...Kill the non believer wherever you find them...!!!
795 posted on 06/24/2002 5:42:03 PM PDT by majordivit
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To: OldFriend
No doubt in your hubris you think YOU should be the President.......you could make Daschle disappear, make Kennedy and LIEberman, Leahy, etc. do exactly as you wanted. Get your way on everything......just wave the magic wand and all the demonrats would fall into line......as easily as rush and sean hang on your every word. LOL.......do get over yourself.......and get in the real world.

Just wanted to bump that outstanding statement you just made to HoldonNow! Thanks!

796 posted on 06/24/2002 5:42:39 PM PDT by PhiKapMom
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To: Wild Irish Rogue
the guest host was interviewing Howard Fineman. Howard Fineman said there was no other way to describe the speech,but "Reaganesque". I think this was a speech for the ages and another one, that will define Bush's presidency

That's what I heard

797 posted on 06/24/2002 5:43:07 PM PDT by Mo1
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To: Wild Irish Rogue
I dunno then. If Fineman liked it...
798 posted on 06/24/2002 5:43:19 PM PDT by Diddle E. Squat
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To: Nix 2
Well, if Bush is laying out a case for Israel to defend itself, it was a pointless speech. The case has been made. It has been made with the Palestinian violation of every accord and agreement it has ever signed. The case was made last week, the week before that, and months earlier, when babies were targeted and shot to death in their beds by terrorists. You insist, like others, that Bush was laying down the law. Just leave the Israelis alone and they'll defend themselves. Stop the Secretary of State from recognizing Arafat as the legitimate leader of the Palestinians. Stop the US representative at the UN from sponsoring resolutions condemning Israel's acts of self-defense.
799 posted on 06/24/2002 5:43:57 PM PDT by holdonnow
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To: Mo1
Silly you, if the libs like it, we're suppose to KNOW it's the wrong thing to do and hate it!
800 posted on 06/24/2002 5:44:42 PM PDT by Howlin
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