Posted on 06/24/2002 5:36:24 PM PDT by bonesmccoy
How recently? Are you sure that your immunity is still good? My last immunization was with the drops on the sugar cube in 1961. Hopefully, it was free of contamination from SV40. I'm not so smug in my belief that my 1961 vintage immunization would protect me against a smallpox attack tomorrow. Especially of the viral load was so concentrated that my immune system would have no hope of reacting in time to overcome it.
That sounds like the Sabin live oral polio vaccine not smallpox.
Also, is there any data on whether the vaccinations are still a safeguard after 40 plus years? How the heck would anyone know?
But most of all, the crux of this thread is my kids. They are at risk. I have this vision of kids getting sick and us older folks staying well. That would be misery.
Orimune was discontinued in the USA several years ago when the committee realized that more paralytic polio in the United States was due to the vaccine than wild virus.
The lame excuse ACIP is giving us regarding smallpox (that the risks are too large) is particularly lame when compared to the relative risk of side effects with existing vaccines.
Some side effects may occur as often as 1 out of 3 uses of vaccine. Yet, they deem these other pathogens as more important than smallpox!
Not an orthopedic surgeon...but I know a few good ones.
Having problems just getting DT to patients with minor scratches and bites. Tetanus in short supply and literally rationed in many health care systems.
You got that right. I'm seeing shortages of nearly every vaccine. The vaccine companies are permitted to cost shift inventory to the physician offices. They're attempting to make physician offices buy in large bulk quantities. This improves the profit margin of the pharmaceutical company while killing the cash flow in the physicians office!
BTW, that scar of yours may not be so comforting...As far as I know, nobody has CHECKED antibody levels to smallpox in a large sample of previously immunized adults...Those immunized may not have sufficient antibodies from those vaccinations in the the early days.
Actually, there was a study I located on the 10 year IgG levels drawn after single dose and multiple doses of the small pox vaccine. The study suggested that multiple doses of vaccine 10 years apart conferred lifetime immunity to the disease. Therefore, any guy born in the 1950-1960 range who served in Vietnam is probably immune. The Nam vets got a first dose as a child and then got immunized prior to deployment in SE Asia. So, ironically, the heroes of Nam who are serving as first responders are probably the best candidates to serve our nation again! (Sorry to volunteer you guys...but the dumb public health bureaucrats are blocking my opportunity for a second dose!). Unfortunately, although the Nam vets might survive a biowarfare attack on our citizens, their families are unlikely to be similarly immunized. Unless they got a dose fast enough, they would probably get ill.
Of course obtaining this SCIENTIFIC information would would be something USEFUL the CDC could do! I am just ill about their glib, speculative pronouncements about national smallpox readiness.
Yes, I am also fed up with the ACIP's modus operandi. The HHS Secretary needs to stop being a politician and to start thinking like a CEO heading a huge corporation. If the ACIP can't make reasonable recommendations, scrap ACIP and go with a new system!
Are we prepared with sufficient antivirals to help large numbers of patients. This is very frustrating!
I agree. This is a bigger problem than the initial HIV epidemic was in 1981-1985. This threat is more significant because smallpox is being used as a weapon in international affairs. HIV was not.
I would rather take my chances with the vaccine and use antiviral drugs to alleviate vaccine side effects than need to use antivirals against variola.
2. The use of antivirals in small pox is unproven.
See: http://bmj.com/cgi/content/full/324/7333/336?view=full&pmid=11834562 There is no practical antiviral treatment and over 30% of patients die, depending on the population and the infecting strain. Vaccination before exposure is effective, but the vaccine has measurable side effects and immunity fades after 10-20 years or earlier in some people. Vaccination after exposure is moderately effective if it is given within four days. The infection is highly contagious. Modelling has confirmed the potentially disastrous effects on the general population if smallpox were to be released. 27 28 International stocks of vaccine are acknowledged to be inadequate, and the WHO has urged countries to consider means of increasing these stocks.
My undergrad degree is in Molecular Biology from UCSD. I pursued a master's in pathogenic microbiology, but decided that computer science and electrical engineering was a better paying career path. No regrets at the change in direction, but I still retain an interest in pathogens and means of dealing with them.
I do recall my mom taking me to the Navy dispensary for a smallpox immunization. They were too busy and couldn't spare anyone to come over to the room where the immunizations were performed. I suspect that I never did get immunized against smallpox as a child. I hope I'm wrong, but there is no physical evidence (scar) to suggest it ever happened.
You're surprised that an organization that openly advocates boundary violation to its member physicians, would also be soft on terrorism?
As I recall, ring vaccination and containment was used in the Third World where mobility is limited. There are not many international airports or interstate highways in the Sahara, Altiplano or Hindu Kush. Folks there pretty much stay put.
The United States policy of mass vaccination existed for a reason; we are a highly mobile society and bioweapons are real. After reading and understanding those two statements, for the sensible person nothing more in reasoning is required.
Someone on another thread nailed it with the following statement "...what a relief to know that the doctor who may sign my death certificate is vaccinated and safe...". I for one certainly want to have voluntary vaccination even though I am probably immune, having been vaccinated in 1962 and again in 1980 (I was in the Navy for that last one and the medics even hit me with a yellow fever innoculation.)
Thanks for your expertise.
I acknowledge your right to make that determination, but only for yourself and your children.
I, too, have the right to decide what my medical prophylactics should include.
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