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Jim Quinn interview David Shippers and Janya Davis concerning OKC terrorist connection(6/27/02).
WRRK - The War Room archives ^ | 06/27/2002 | Quinn and Rose on WRRK

Posted on 06/28/2002 5:26:09 AM PDT by McGruff

Yesterday (6/27/2002)Jim Quinn had an interview with David Shippers and Janya Davis concerning John Doe #2 OKC Middle eastern terrorist cover-up.

It's now available in his archives. Go to the link above and click on show archives and 6/27/2002. It’s available in multiple formats. Segment starts 1 hour and 30 mins into the broadcast.

It's definitely worth listening.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Extended News; Government; News/Current Events; US: Pennsylvania; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: jimquinn; okcbombing; schippers
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1 posted on 06/28/2002 5:26:09 AM PDT by McGruff
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To: McGruff; Fred Mertz; honway; OKCSubmariner; Nita Nupress; rdavis84; MizSterious
heads up
2 posted on 06/28/2002 5:39:51 AM PDT by thinden
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To: OKCSubmariner
fyi
3 posted on 06/28/2002 5:56:08 AM PDT by Plummz
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To: thinden; Nancie Drew; BlueDogDemo; AtticusX
Interesting interview. Many topics covered, specifically the ME connection to OKC including Philippines connections.
4 posted on 06/28/2002 7:03:32 AM PDT by Fred Mertz
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To: Plummz; thinden
Thank you both for the heads up and ping.
5 posted on 06/28/2002 9:20:09 AM PDT by OKCSubmariner
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Comment #6 Removed by Moderator

To: OKCSubmariner
BUMP!!!!!!!!!
7 posted on 06/28/2002 10:43:47 AM PDT by Donald Stone
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Comment #8 Removed by Moderator

To: OKCSubmariner
"Davis specifically told me from 1996 until 2001 that she deliberately kept the specific details of the prior warnings of the House Task Force and Bodansky on the OKC bombing from Attorney Stephen Jones even when she said she knew Jones wanted it and hoped to subpoena her during the McVeigh trial to get it made known in court."

FINALLY IT MAKES SENSE.

Finally, Pat, we can understand what this whole problem between you and Jayna Davis is all about. And it helps explain the desperation of McVeigh's defense attorneys.

Well, the whole country knows the truth now, and we've got the Associated Press to thank for taking the risk to run the story. I've had lots of disagreements and problems with the AP over the years, but the one advantage of having a news company like AP is that it is NOT anywhere as influenced politically as other major newspapers and broadcasting outlets.

It's unfortunate the AP did not get this information back in 1995 or 1996. That's what happens when a news organization works quietly and steadily and consistently without calling attention to itself. People don't think to call with "tips," despite the fact that it is the most powerful news "engine" in the nation.

If your allegations are true, Pat, all I can say is FIE on any person who would call themselves a journalist and do such a thing. FIE on them.

It is my belief that this is the kind of set-up that caused the conflagration at Waco. The feds wanted some free TV exposure, called up a local TV crew, told them there'd be a raid "out at the ranch" come Sunday morning, and to be sure to bring the cameras, but not to tell anyone.

I was a reporter in Texas in the '80s, and the cops did this kind of thing ALL THE TIME.

Now we see the results.

9 posted on 06/28/2002 11:38:35 AM PDT by glorygirl
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Comment #10 Removed by Moderator

To: OKCSubmariner
Davis tried to keep me silent and when I refused she started calling me and directly threatening me to sue me. She also harshly warned me that some FBI agents could likely also sue me, FBI Agents she was associated with.It was not freindly advice on her part. It was harsh and intimidating.

Why? You are on her side. What do you think her deal is now?

11 posted on 06/28/2002 12:30:05 PM PDT by carenot
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To: OKCSubmariner
Message to GWB/Ashcroft/Wes Lane:

Terry Nichols is still alive! Get down to OKC and find out what the hell is going on in this country. Give him the life sentence he wants, and lets get on with it.

I keep thinking of that Muslim guy who got a life sentence for blowing up the embassies in Africa the day after McVeigh's execution. Wonder how the members of that New York jury felt on Sept. 11.

But they're still alive, too.

12 posted on 06/28/2002 12:50:59 PM PDT by glorygirl
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Comment #13 Removed by Moderator

To: codebreaker; Free the USA; VOA; lawdog; archy; Uncle Bill; MizSterious; Donald Stone; backhoe; ...
big-time OKC ping
14 posted on 06/28/2002 1:34:55 PM PDT by glorygirl
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To: McGruff
BTTT
15 posted on 06/28/2002 1:51:30 PM PDT by Twodees
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To: OKCSubmariner
I'm confused. I thought Jayna Davis was trying to help not hinder. What could possibly be her reason? Is she afraid of something or someone?

It drives me crazy wishing the whole truth would just come out so we could deal with it.

As someone who lost a parent in the bombing, I appreciate your efforts to bring the truth to light. Reading one of your articles a couple of years ago really helped to confirm what I had always suspected deep down.

16 posted on 06/28/2002 1:55:32 PM PDT by okkev68
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To: OKCSubmariner; Nancie Drew; BlueDogDemo
She has been exceedingly duplicitious with me and others in this case when it pertains to the FBI in my opinion.

I suspect this connection (Davis - FBI) somehow is the reason for her behavior.

I wonder what others think.

17 posted on 06/28/2002 2:02:47 PM PDT by Fred Mertz
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To: Fred Mertz
That was my thought. The question is what doesn't she want known about the FBI and OKC?

I have a disgruntled FBI agent on my block who my neighbor has asked about OKC. He basically echoed alot of what has been reported on FR about the FBI and ME connection.

18 posted on 06/28/2002 2:12:50 PM PDT by okkev68
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Comment #19 Removed by Moderator

Comment #20 Removed by Moderator

To: okkev68; glorygirl; Uncle Bill; lawdog; archy; B4Ranch; carenot; VOA; Free the USA; ntrulock; ...
Ooopps...

Reply #20 was meant to correct reply #19 and not reply #14.

Guess I need a rest.

21 posted on 06/28/2002 2:56:23 PM PDT by OKCSubmariner
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To: OKCSubmariner
Please add me to your ping list. Thanks.
22 posted on 06/28/2002 2:56:41 PM PDT by Fred Mertz
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To: glorygirl
This klugy old PC of mine can't handle any of those warroom files; what I will do is add this post to a mass email I'm sending this evening- it will also grace the next update of the Dark Underbelly file.
23 posted on 06/28/2002 3:01:11 PM PDT by backhoe
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To: OKCSubmariner
Davis has denegrated for years General Partin

Brig. Gen. Partin(Ret.) is an expert in the field of studying the effects of munitions and explosives on structures. It is a narrow field.
In my opinion, anyone who dismisses his work out of hand either lacks the knowledge and understanding to appreciate his report or the individual is pursuing an agenda subordinate to searching for the truth.

24 posted on 06/28/2002 3:02:22 PM PDT by honway
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To: backhoe
How about this?

To find all articles tagged or indexed using OKCbombing, click below:
  click here >>> OKCbombing <<< click here  
(To view all FR Bump Lists, click here)



25 posted on 06/28/2002 5:00:33 PM PDT by glorygirl
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To: glorygirl
That's the one... I actually have some of the more elabotate banners ( no OKC, but they are easy to adapt, I just lost interest as the bump lists may be phased out ) right here:

-Some of the Bump Lists--

26 posted on 06/28/2002 5:23:57 PM PDT by backhoe
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To: backhoe
What do you think of this?

More colorful, don't you think, despite the b&w photo?

:

OKC BOMBING

Click here for OKC BOMBING BUMP LIST 

Other Bump Lists at: Free Republic Bump List Register


We really SHOULD be getting paid for this, you know.

27 posted on 06/28/2002 7:16:11 PM PDT by glorygirl
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To: glorygirl
That's a good one, and one that I will save and use.

FWIW, the first time I saw the overhead view of that building, I remarked to my wife, "Heaving charge? H@ll, no, that was a cutting charge..."

28 posted on 06/29/2002 2:48:16 AM PDT by backhoe
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To: All
Sadly enough, the same reason OKC was covered up is the same reason it will finally be uncovered - Political gain! As soon as a major network thinks they can scoop everyone else, or politician thinks he can make his career the dam will break.
29 posted on 06/29/2002 5:14:52 AM PDT by okkev68
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To: OKCSubmariner
Please add me to your ping list, OKC. And God bless you for standing for truth, no matter what.
30 posted on 06/29/2002 5:45:41 AM PDT by ncpastor
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To: OKCSubmariner
I have tried everything in my power to get the full truth out as soon as possible everyday since April 19, 1995 for the sake of the victims then and to prevent other victims in the future. This is why it has been so hard and frustrating for me to try to get Davis to come forward with her evidence on prior warning for over six years. I was always afraid there would be another attack if she did [NOT]hurry up and come forward and I told her that many times.

Soooooo.... You're insinuating that if Jayna Davis had done exactly as Pat Briley suggested, then 911 would not have happened? Surely that's not what you're trying to make us think.

Personally, I'll reserve judgment on Jayna Davis and anyone else who is publicly trashed at FR unless I hear both sides of the issue. There are always, always, always two sides to an issue, no matter what that issue may be.   I can sit here and think of several good reasons to explain her actions, but that's beside the point.  The point is this:  A public forum like FR is not the place to air your grievances against someone in a personal dispute. You obviously harbor some bitterness, but this is not the place to dump it.  I certainly can't speak for anyone else, but I'm not interested in wading through it.  It's nothing personal; you seem like a nice, sincere person whose motivations are very sincere, and I appreciate all your hard work at uncovering the truth.

Maybe you should write a book, Pat.  That would give you a channel for your anger; you could lay public claim to all your hard work on the OKC bombing; and it may help with your feelings of being cheated / sabotaged / hindered / threatened / hoodwinked / harmed / interfered with / obstructed / impeded / hampered / (insert your own word here).

Now is not the time for infighting. 

Just my 2 cents.

31 posted on 06/29/2002 8:37:05 AM PDT by Nita Nupress
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To: OKCSubmariner
After her testifying, Davis had her attorney read a prepared statement outside the OK County Gtrand Jury stating her position strongly counter to what Jasper and Key and other investigators had found in the OKC bombing case

A copy of the public statement would be very helpful in my attempt to fully understand the situation.

32 posted on 06/29/2002 11:52:12 AM PDT by honway
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Comment #33 Removed by Moderator

To: ncpastor
Thank you for your kind words.

Please see reply #33.

34 posted on 06/29/2002 11:59:17 AM PDT by OKCSubmariner
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To: Twodees; Senator Pardek; Travis McGee
Please see reply #33. Thanks.
35 posted on 06/29/2002 12:08:39 PM PDT by OKCSubmariner
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To: OKCSubmariner
Thanks for the ping, FRiend. Bump for truth and justice in OKC.
36 posted on 06/29/2002 12:46:36 PM PDT by Dixie Mom
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To: okkev68
Please see reply #33. Thanks.
37 posted on 06/29/2002 12:50:26 PM PDT by OKCSubmariner
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To: All
Intended for discussion and educational purposes only, not for distribution

Judge Refuses To Bar Subpoena Of Ex-Reporter

Ed Godfrey
09/12/1997

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A judge on Thursday refused to quash a subpoena requiring former KFOR-TV reporter Jayna Davis to testify before the Oklahoma County grand jury investigating the Murrah bombing.

In June 1995, Davis aired a report linking an Iraqi then living in Oklahoma City with the bombing. Al-Hussaini Hussain sued KFOR in Oklahoma County District Court, saying the station fingered him as John Doe 2.

Hussain was not named, but attorneys claimed he was identified through "innuendo." Hussain dropped the lawsuit in April.

Davis was subpoenaed to testify today . On Thursday, her attorney, A. Daniel Woska, asked Oklahoma County District Judge Bill Burkett to prevent her from appearing, based on "newsman's privilege" under state law.

Davis claimed her stories involved sources who said they saw "a certain individual either in the company of Timothy McVeigh in Oklahoma City prior to the bombing, or in other circumstances suggesting he might be John Doe No. 2."

Davis claims those reports were based on confidential sources and information that has never been broadcast.

Davis and the witnesses she spoke with have been threatened as a result of her investigation, Woska told the judge.

Patrick Morgan, the prosecutor advising the grand jury, argued Davis waived her newsman privilege by voluntarily disclosing certain information to law enforcement.

Morgan also said the grand jury should hear about any threats.

"If she has information about who gave these threats, I think the jury has the right to hear that kind of testimony," Morgan said.

Burkett agreed . Woska told the judge that Davis did not know who made the threats.

Davis, who is seven months pregnant, did not appear Thursday because she was ill, Woska said.

Burkett ruled Davis must appear as a witness, but told both sides to attempt to determine in advance what testimony may be privileged. Her testimony is expected to be postponed until next week.

38 posted on 06/29/2002 12:53:46 PM PDT by honway
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To: All
I am not casting any judgements here, but I would like to recap what I know.

John Doe 2 participated in the murder of more than 160 people in Oklahoma City on April 19,1995

The Grand Jury convened in Oklahoma City had the power to push the investigation forward and influence the Oklahoma law enforcement officials to pursue the arrest of the mass murderer, John Doe 2.

Outside of law enforcement, Jayna Davis possessed the best evidence available on the subject John Doe 2.

When given the opportunity to provide this important information to a Grand Jury, she elected to fight the subpoena, unsuccessfully.

John Doe 2 is still at large.

39 posted on 06/29/2002 1:13:36 PM PDT by honway
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To: OKCSubmariner
First, I disagree with your premise that publication of the 'prior notice' would have hastened an uncovering of the truth.  Nothing would ever convince me that the Iraqis' involvement in OKC would have been acted upon under Clinton, Clinton, and Freeh.  Just like impeachment, you could have plastered the "prior notice" documents on the front page of every newspaper in the country and it wouldn't have done a dang bit of good.  The media would have given it a cursory mention, then Bill Clinton would have bombed another aspirin factory to change the subject. 

Second, you failed to address my point that FR, a public forum, is not the place to address your issues with Jayna Davis or anyone else.  File a lawsuit.  Write a book.  Hit a punching bag.  Take up jogging.  Drown in a bottle of JD if you have to.  I just think personal rants between public figures are inappropriate in this medium, that's all.

You said,

When you use the word "Exactly" and "insinutating" in the above sentence you are grossly overstating the situation and you are not properly characterizing what has been written (nice spin try but what you wrote does not hold water with me and others on FR who have been following this story and can read for themselves)with regard to what I and others urged Jayna Davis to do( reveal prior warning notice) and not do (attempt to drive my witnessses away from me, Key and Jasper).

I wasn't trying to "spin."  You stated, "I have tried everything in my power to get the full truth out as soon as possible everyday ... to prevent other victims in the future. .... I was always afraid there would be another attack if she did [not] hurry up and come forward and I told her that many times."   Read your words again if you don't understand.  If that doesn't help, never mind.  It's not really important and beside the point.

However, If you will read the replies on this thread carefully you will find that William Jasper, Charles Key, Mike McNulty, several World Net Daily journalists , two of Jayna's attorneys urged her to come forward years earlier with the specifics of the official prior warning.

I don't recall seeing the replies of William Jasper, Charles Key, Mike McNulty, several World Net Daily journalists, and two of Jayna's attorneys on this thread.  When it comes to "choosing sides" (a stupid concept to begin with, but something you're promoting on this thread), I would never listen to just one version of events and then make a judgment. 


Even David Schippers said during the Quinn interview that he called Jayna Davis on 9/11 and told her that she should definitely come forward with then. Schippers did know that Jayna had been sitting on the prior warning notice for years.

I haven't had a chance to listen to the interview, so I can't comment on Schippers' motives, actions or behaviors.


So I do want you and others on FR to know that Jayna should have at least made the details of the prior warning notice years earlier-I do want you KNOW that.

Okay, Pat.  See if this works for you: 

I KNOW that you think Jayna should have at least made the details of the prior warning notice years earlier.  I KNOW that you have that firm belief and opinion.

Other than that, I'm reserving judgment.  I haven't heard the comments and opinions of the other parties involved.  And to be honest, I don't care to dredge up the past.  The 'prior notice' news is out.  It's public now.  People are paying attention.  This type of conversation and these types of accusations will accomplish nothing positive and are harmful to FR.  More importantly, they are harmful to the resolution of the OKC bombing cover-up.  That is what this is all about, isn't it?


Davis deserves to be criticized for this and for her aggressive attempts to keep important parts of the OKC story from coming out learned by Jasper, Key and myself and PArtin on domestic John Does and on additional bombs. It is bad journalism to do what she did to our witnesses to drive them away and to try and control them and to denegrate Key, Japers, and Partin to discredit their evidence which she has done for over six years.

Again, that's one man's opinion on events. You're free to state them. 

Even if your version of events is true, it's my opinion that this is not the place to relive the past and criticize people about things that have happened over the past six years.   It's in bad taste and serves no useful purpose.  I may be the only one here who doesn't care about the past, but that's my opinion. And remember, I disagree with your premise that publication of the 'prior notice' would have done any good.


 Read what glorygirl has written in her replies on this thread questioning the professionalism of Davis as a journalist. . I can give you the names of local reporters in OKC who do not agree with Davis .... Jasper, Keys, McNulty ,Davis' attorneys and World Net Daily criticisms of Davis ....  I also have heard significant professional criticisms about Davis ... from Kenneth Timmerman of Insight magazine...

I don't care what glorygirl, OKC reporters, Jasper, Keys, McNulty, Davis' attorneys, World Net Daily, or Kenneth Timmerman may think.  The past is the past.  It's time to move forward.  And again, I can't speak for everyone here; I'm only speaking for myself.

Victims, reporters, Congressional staff members,attorneys,journalists and witnesses have all been impeded in getting the OKC bombing story out for over six years by Davis deliberate and unprofessional actions and they have complained about it to her and others repeatedly during those six years. What she has done has not been helpful to them and to our country because it greatly delayed our efforts to combat terrorism in the US and get needed reforms earlier when they were needed.

There's not really anything new to say here.  I just thought you'd feel better if everyone read your words again.

Davis mishandling of the OKC bombing evidence and the witnesses is as an important part of the OKC bombing story as the mishandling of witnesses and evidence by the FBI and DOJ.These two mishandlings are directly related and were wrong in my opinion.

Ditto on my last comment.

If I write my book, it will contain the complete story and many Chapters on what the FBI, DOJ AND Jayna Davis did and did not do.

One of our main differences seems to be that you think the FBI is inherently evil, while I do not.  Just an irrelevant observation.

But in case you have not noticed, I have written a chapter about every month (on average)in the articles I have been posting on FR since June 2000. Anyone who wants to can easily compile my articles and my replies into a book for free. Some are already doing that as an e-Book. I have tried saving everything important I and others have written on the OKC bombing on FR incluiding what has been written by BlueDog, Nancie Drew,Secret Squid, Nita Nupress and many others. I will be saving (and maybe publishing) this reply too.

You have done wonderful work here.  We would not be as far along in understanding the OKC events if you had not been here to lead the way and answer questions.

From the bottom of my heart, thank you for that.  Unlike all my opinions written above, I know I speak for everyone here when I say we all appreciate you.  Really.

 

40 posted on 06/29/2002 1:35:53 PM PDT by Nita Nupress
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To: OKCSubmariner
When I get totally stumped by a new revelation or piece of information, I try to go back to my theory as to why there was an OKC bombing cover up by federal, state, and local law enforcement officials, plug in the new information and test the hypothesis and see if it works. So far only one works for me.

I apologize to anyone who may have read this before.

After examining the known facts, the most likely explanation that is consistent with what we know to be true is that the OKC bombing was an attempt by U.S. intelligence assets to infiltrate the Middle Eastern terrorist network that was and is at war with the U.S.

Numerous "domestic" terrorist" groups had been heavily infiltrated by federal operatives for years. Federal operatives inside these domestic organizations may have orchestrated an alliance with the Middle Eastern terrorist cells operating in the U.S. to gain intelligence information on Middle Eastern terrorists.

An intelligence asset attempting to infiltrate a terrorist organization would not gain the confidence of the leaders of the organization without killing people. In my opinion, a decision was made at the highest level to sacrifice the victims in Oklahoma in order for one or more intelligence operatives to move up in the terrorist network. In addition, by focusing blame on the people disturbed by Waco, Clinton could achieve a domestic political "victory" with the cover of a "legitimate" intelligence operation and invoke National Security to insure Congress and the Courts went along (as well as a Governor).

For folks in Washington, losing the Murrah Building may have been necessary to gain intelligence to prevent a potential attack on the political infrastructure. Please consider a "dirty" bomb exploding outside the Capitol Building during a State of the Union address and the effect on our elected leaders. This is the nightmare scenario our intelligence community is expected to defend against. I reject the sacrifice of innocent civilians for whatever the purpose and believe the operation should be exposed for what it was and those responsible should be held accountable. The failures that began in OKC resulted in the attack on 9-11.

41 posted on 06/29/2002 1:49:32 PM PDT by honway
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To: Nita Nupress
One of our main differences seems to be that you think the FBI is inherently evil, while I do not

I have great respect for your judgement and you have hit the nail on the head with this comment. Not only does it underscore the difference between you and Pat on this matter, it is the essence of the diffrence between Jayna and Pat.

In the interview with Shippers he states that there was a "massive and colossal cover up" by the FBI. Now in my words, 168 people died. The FBI cover up permitted the guilty to go free and possibly kill again. That is my definition of evil.

Jayna, like you does not believe the FBI is inherently evil. She states in the interview she gave her materials to the FBI in 1997. The irony to that is the FBI already had in their possession the video surveillance tapes recording John Doe 2 at the scene. The only place she could have taken the whole story and made a difference was the Grand Jury and if she had not opposed the subponea(unsuccessfully) and made the same case to the Grand Jury that she makes on this interview, I believe some jurors may have voted differently.

You be the judge. Listen to the interview, and then decide. Had you heard this testimony as a Grand Juror, how would you have voted.

42 posted on 06/29/2002 2:18:43 PM PDT by honway
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To: Nita Nupress; OKCSubmariner
Excerpt from the Daily Oklahoman

"U.S. Postal Employee Testifies for Grand Jury - TV Reporter Disavows Conspiracy"
Judy Kuhlman, Diana Baldwin
09/20/1997

Through her attorney, Tim McCoy, former KFOR reporter Davis disavowed some of the bombing conspiracy theories that have been reported.

"She also wants to make it perfectly clear that after her two-year exhaustive investigation, she has turned up no credible evidence that supports the theory that the federal government had sufficient prior warnings to prevent the bombing," McCoy said.

KFOR-TV aired several reports by Davis suggesting an Iraqi busboy then living in Oklahoma City was involved in the Murrah Building bombing. Al Hussaini-Hussain sued Davis and KFOR, accusing the television station of fingering him as John Doe 2, but he dropped the lawsuit earlier this year.

Hussain's attorneys claimed the FBI never considered him a suspect. A FBI agent, speaking at a newspaper publishers conference in 1995, said the KFOR report was untrue. The FBI never officially commented on the broadcasts.

43 posted on 06/29/2002 2:56:21 PM PDT by honway
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To: Nita Nupress; OKCSubmariner
Talk is cheap, I recognize, but I think I should remind people of the sign that was on the desk of Joe Rochefort, the hero of WWII naval signals intelligence. I can't remember the exact words, but it was to the effect: there's no limit to what you can do, if you don't care who gets the credit for your ideas.
44 posted on 06/29/2002 2:58:52 PM PDT by aristeides
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To: Fred Mertz; OKCSubmariner
From the article in #43

On Sept. 9, Nakanashi told the grand jury about seeing McVeigh and John Doe 2 on Monday before the bombing.

She said she picked McVeigh out of a line-up and later spent eight hours with an FBI sketch artist who drew a picture of the man she saw with McVeigh.

Federal prosecutors said the FBI sketch of the dark-haired, muscular suspect actually depicted an innocent Army private and was drawn from information provided by Tom Kessinger, a mechanic at Eldon's Body Shop in Junction City, Kan., where the truck was rented.

_________________________________________________________

If I am reading this right, either Ms. Nakanashi is lying when she says she assisted in the composite of John Doe 2 or the fedearal prosecutors are lying since Ms.Nakanashi was not in Elliot's Body shop, she was in the OKC Post Office. I think they have surveillance cameras in all U.S. Post offices.

I believe Ms.Nakanashi

45 posted on 06/29/2002 3:13:17 PM PDT by honway
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To: OKCSubmariner
She said she picked McVeigh out of a line-up and later spent eight hours with an FBI sketch artist who drew a picture of the man she saw with McVeigh

If the FBI assigns a sketch artist to the case, wouldn't they also review the video surveillance tapes from the Post Office?

46 posted on 06/29/2002 3:39:03 PM PDT by honway
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Comment #47 Removed by Moderator

To: aristeides; OKCSubmariner; thinden; Fred Mertz; rdavis84; Nita Nupress
there's no limit to what you can do, if you don't care who gets the credit for your ideas.

Very good advise.

But I also think there is more involved here. There are two distinct view points competing.

On the one side you have those who believe there were Middle Eastern terrorists involved in the OKC bombing, but the FBI and the DOJ were simply too incompetent to figure it out, even though they had all the video surveillance tapes and "missing 302's". In other words, the FBI are good guys, they are just stupid.

On the other side you have those that believe there were Middle Eastern terrorists involved in the OKC bombing and the FBI and the DOJ intentionally covered it up(i.e.government conspiracy). In other words, the FBI are bad guys, but they are very smart.(since they got away with it.)

It is great to have a difference of opinion. The problem comes in when one side becomes so aligned with their position that they will discredit the "FBI covered up the bombing" side by discrediting investigators with witnesses.

For example, "Through her attorney, Tim McCoy, former KFOR reporter Davis disavowed some of the bombing conspiracy theories that have been reported."

You have read it before on this sight. Complaints like you must be anti-government if you believe the FBI covered up the Middle Eastern connection, etc.

My response is, if you believe thereis a Middle Eastern connection to the OKC bombing and you also believe the FBI knew nothing about it, then you must be anti-common sense.

It took great courage for Pat to bring forward these two competing views and the effect of the differing view points at arriving at the truth. He knew in advance there would be claims he was being petty. But he did it anyway because it was the right thing to do.

48 posted on 06/29/2002 4:17:48 PM PDT by honway
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To: honway
On the one side you have those who believe there were Middle Eastern terrorists involved in the OKC bombing, but the FBI and the DOJ were simply too incompetent to figure it out, even though they had all the video surveillance tapes and "missing 302's". In other words, the FBI are good guys, they are just stupid.

On the other side you have those that believe there were Middle Eastern terrorists involved in the OKC bombing and the FBI and the DOJ intentionally covered it up(i.e.government conspiracy). In other words, the FBI are bad guys, but they are very smart.(since they got away with it.)

There is a third possibility. The FBI and others knew ME terrorists were involved in the OKC bombing, but covered it up because they had been persuaded that (for whatever reason) this was the right thing to do. In my opinion, the truth is probably a mixture of the second and third possibilities.

49 posted on 06/29/2002 5:05:27 PM PDT by aristeides
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To: aristeides
On the other side you have those that believe there were Middle Eastern terrorists involved in the OKC bombing and the FBI and the DOJ intentionally covered it up(i.e.government conspiracy). In other words, the FBI are bad guys, but they are very smart.(since they got away with it.)

There is a third possibility. The FBI and others knew ME terrorists were involved in the OKC bombing, but covered it up because they had been persuaded that (for whatever reason) this was the right thing to do. In my opinion, the truth is probably a mixture of the second and third possibilities.

If I take out the words "bad guys" Option two and three are the same.

So I guess the only disageement then would be can covering up the murder of 168 people ever be the right thing.

I am happy with removing the words "bad guys" and sticking with two groups who believe there was a Middle Eastern connection, group one believes the FBI knows nothing about Middle Eastern involvement and group two believes the FBI covered up Middle Eastern involvement.

50 posted on 06/29/2002 5:55:27 PM PDT by honway
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